BC Growers Association

BCG Chat Archives

September 1999 Archives

This is the archives from the BC Growers Message Board

TOPIC - Romberry
                     DATE - 07:26:03 10/01/99
                     FROM - bluebuddha
                     God that romberry is beautiful!!! Those colas are HUGE! What are some of the specifications of it? How long?
                     How potent? taste? High? What kind of growing environment does it prefer? History of strain? I definatley must
                     try my hand at this strain. What are the cured buds like? Jeez im droolin....


                     TOPIC - Spaz...
                     DATE - 21:44:00 9/30/99
                     FROM - chronic man
                     I thought I'd try to answer your question, I'm not a pro with the Super soil or anything, but mine are doin pretty
                     damn good. The purpose of letting the soil sit for a week or two is to let the microbes break down the nutrients
                     so that the plant can use the nutrients. I let my soil sit for about three weeks before using, but I've read here that
                     you can use soil right away after it's mixed, because the plants are probably so small that they don't need a
                     whole lot of nutrients yet.
                     The wilting, I have to ask the obvious. Do they have enough water?? Maybe too much??? And what size
                     container are you using?? If these aren't the culprits, maybe the water you've been using has a high PH. You
                     can check the soil's PH with test kits. Maybe these might help, if not maybe Vic might know.
                     Good luck...
                     cHrOnIc man


                     TOPIC - Vic Bro......NO biggy....
                     DATE - 19:18:46 9/30/99
                     FROM - Perp
                     ...a strange thing has been happening for the last two weeks or so.....after visiting here, my "back" button wont
                     work?????...usualy I'll "click" back to my bookmarks,....BUT I ben getting an error message
                     instead???????....thought I should mention it....
                     WebTv browser 2.1, Ha! (Mostly M/S Explorer based)
                     >error message = "Too much info to load page"....this is a Webtv standard error message for HUGE Web Pages
                     that max out the mini cache in these Set-Top boxs.....

                     ...anyway no biggy, jus weird and thought ya might wanna know....
                     P.S...I don't know shit about 'puters....Ha!

                     ..anybody else havin' a problem "Backin' out of this page??? L8R


                     TOPIC - storage
                     DATE - 17:04:21 9/30/99
                     FROM - ahhsome
                     How do you store pollen most efficently???



                     TOPIC - sprouts - blueberry & romberry
                     DATE - 18:15:16 9/29/99
                     FROM - Wadsworth
                     my sprouts are doing well. the romberry is the biggest by far. the blueberry was started a week later and is
                     almost as big. purple passion, started same time as RB, is still somewhat smaller. in 44oz cups of soil.


                     TOPIC - wilted
                     DATE - 15:03:16 9/29/99
                     FROM - spaz
                     VIC i posted already about my wilting plants.
                     im still wilting..could it be your soil ...?
                     i waited about 1 week before using the soil,was that long enough? what is the purpose of letting the mixture sit
                     1-2 weeks?


                     TOPIC - Re:Flushing causes damage for sure.
                     DATE - 09:39:52 9/29/99
                     FROM - popabone
                     You probably have to adjust flushing
                     for the strain that you are
                     growing - trial and error .
                     I would not flush for more than 5
                     days with any strain. Also, it only
                     takes one flushing to remove most of the
                     DS from medium . I would say try flushing
                     2 to 3 days before harvesting .



                     TOPIC - super skunk
                     DATE - 17:30:28 9/28/99
                     FROM - mtb
                     super skunk is an f1 hybrid. what would be the out come of breeding back to have an f2. would they be potent or
                     not, are they worth growing? help!



                     TOPIC - baudelaire you have......
                     DATE - 13:44:43 9/28/99
                     FROM - aeric77
                     .......an email where the fat lady sings......


                     TOPIC - Cleansed, Bluebuddha, Powdery mildew
                     DATE - 13:10:10 9/28/99
                     FROM - sb
                     I noted that you have the dreaded PM popping up again.Mine has come back with a freakin vengence so off to
                     the nursery I went.I returned armed with neem concentrate as well as safer "garden fungicide" (sulfur based).My
                     plan is to alternate these two sprays at 7 day intervals unless you or someone else has any relevant pearls of
                     wisdom on the matter.
                     I do the soil thing with organic ferts and see no real reason to flush.Are plants in the wild flushed? I have no hard
                     data to back this up, but I have harvested some chemically fertilized(heavily I might add) weed in the past that
                     tasted like CRAP and some that just wouldn't stay lit.I have never experienced the same results with
                     organics.My guess is that the periodic problems I've had with chems is not the nature of the ferts so much as
                     possibly an extreme imbalance induced by heavy feedings without regular flushings.MPWO

                     NO PROBLEM MAN! 400 watts is nothing to be concerned with at all.I run a 1k on 12/12 and a 400 on 24/7 with
                     bills that are not at all out of line for my domestic situation.Breath deep and relax.hahaha....seriously


                     TOPIC - Flushing causes damage for sure.
                     DATE - 11:56:08 9/28/99
                     FROM - bluebuddha
                     Im in the last week of flushing(2weeks). I have noticed alot of discoloration not only in fan leaves, but also in
                     small bud leaves. The calaxys havent really swelled up too much and the time has come. Im a few days out of
                     harvesting and can't help but think it was a mistake to flush. It seems the plant could have used the ferts till say
                     5 days before harvest and then flush. See, my roots are in soil and a large pot about 15 inches (8-10 gallon) the
                     root system expanded and filled up. Hence waterings evry 4 days.
                     Now I had gotten some advice from a couple of advanced growers that flushing and these results are normal.
                     They stated that the plant was using up its last stores of nitrogen and therefore would be a smoother smoke.
                     Thats fine but what about potentcy and last minute growth that alot of plants exhibit? Doesnt this decrease or
                     lack of nutrients stop the ripening process completely and stunt growth of new glands? Im also wondering what if
                     any experiences people have had and also would love to hear opinions on the pros and cons of flushing...


                     TOPIC - Security
                     DATE - 10:43:53 9/28/99
                     FROM - Cleansed
                     Hey all...:)...I'd like to express my thanks to the board for giving such a great response to my questions and may
                     i ask a few more?..;)....I have recently moved house to a more sedate suburb,The room i plan to live in is still
                     being worked on so i have had little chance to get the light and herb going.I am just curious about the power bill if
                     i plug my 400 hps in about a month after moving...is it enough wattage to make a visible impact that might
                     arouse suspicion?..also there seem to be a never ending supply of copters and all sorts of aircraft going back
                     and forth overhead...In my old property i let this make me really paranoid..i dont think that we are quite as
                     advanced as far as searching out indoor gardens as you canadians and americans but it is still making me
                     nervous...any suggestions will be much appreciated..thanks for your time...:)


                     TOPIC - males to females
                     DATE - 09:29:18 9/28/99
                     FROM - hand
                     selective breeding response,all males are kept alive,testing males are mutilated then killed,remaining males dont
                     want to die easyest way to stay alive,be a female.males that turn are already judged good as a male or they
                     wouldnt be alive.selective pressure.group hormone thing.


                     TOPIC - Spud's expectations
                     DATE - 07:13:43 9/28/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Hey Spud, be careful coming here "expecting" anything, it's nobody's job to sit here and fulfill your expectations.
                     We donate our time "sharing" info and help out when we can and where we can.

                     That said;

                     - reveg up to harvest time.
                     - removing main flower clumps will aid in the reveg process.
                     - once the female starts showing signs of reveg, you could allow the remaining flowers to be pollenated. The
                     seeds will develope despite the fact the plant is in veg mode, thus giving you what seems to be badly needed


                     TOPIC - trelaway & Chronic Man
                     DATE - 07:00:54 9/28/99
                     FROM - funkdified
                     Actually, I've decided to scrog it. I realize that this is best w/ clones, but with the space that I have available it is
                     tough to get a mom going. I can imagine that harvest time will be a bitch as I will have to judge each bud on its
                     own. I was just getting a little bored with the standard way of growing. Gotta have those new challenges you
                     know. I appreciate your responses. I think that I will let them go until I can sex them. The advice I spoke of was
                     just something that I heard from friends and from things that I've read from the net. I have heard of people having
                     bad luck at culling. From what I've read, the males are the ones that usually display the vigour that we are all
                     looking for. I have only done 4 crops to completion, so I want to get a little more used to the growth habits and
                     phenotype expression of the sexes before I try to cull. I refuse to kill a lady. I usually only kill a plant if it is
                     diseased or unusally slow growing. Oh yeah, chronic man, I have tied down plants before and it is suprising the
                     amount of branching that takes place. I am a little confused about why it does this though. I remember reading
                     that the further away each branch gets away from the growing tips, the more the plant branches because of a
                     hormone in the growing tips. Which means that when a plant is topped, that the level of the hormone in the plant
                     drops to near 0 which causes, depending on the light level, all previous branching spots to grow out. How does
                     tying it down cause the same effect? It seems that since the growing tips are still in tact that the hormone would
                     be present preventing branching. Not to mention the fact that you are bringing the hormone closer to, if not lower
                     than, the level of the branches. I know this may seem like a stupid ? seeing as the the result of tieing down is
                     positive , but I am the type who likes to know how things work the way they do. Peace - funkdified.


                     TOPIC - emergency - HELP!
                     DATE - 01:30:27 9/28/99
                     FROM - Spud
                     Hi. Ok I am going to give a detailed description of my situation as I expect a similarly detailed answer from
                     anyone who has had this problem or who can help.

                     Ok I had a prizewinning NLxThai cross female that had a few female preflowers and is now about 2 ft tall. I grew it
                     from seed and it was the only remaining seed of her kind so I need to preserve her. She was up to her 10th
                     internode and I topped her to keep her bushy and branched. Now I live in the southern hemisphere where
                     currently the days are just over 12 hours long and lengthening. I also have 1 male plant of an equally impressive
                     strain. This strain I also plant to preserve for as long as possible. The only thing I have of this other strain is the
                     male (now about 14 inches tall), some frozen pollen from another male, and 1 other small plant that I think is
                     female. The male that is still alive is better than the other male of which the stored pollen came. It is bushier and
                     squatter and just as fast maturing.

                     Now heres my problem. Because the days are still only ~ 12 hours long where I live, both the NL Thai female and
                     the other strains male began to flower because they are outside. The female's growth slowed to a near halt about
                     3 weeks ago. At first I thought it was late enough to leave her outside, and that the slow growth was only
                     temporary and was due to me transplanting her and topping her just prior to that time. But the sidebranches
                     failed to develop at all well, and then more female stigmas began appearing at nearly every axis. At the same
                     time the male plant started growing a number of male flowers. But I wanted the male to branch out more so that I
                     could maybe clone him for later use, or at least cut off one of the branches that would have formed and out in a
                     glass of water and collect pollen that would drop for storage.
                     I wanted both this male and female to revert back to veg growth for cloning and increased plant size before
                     flowering. To do this I had to move them inside under a 400 W MH. But I had to wait an extra week until I got my
                     latest power bill. This is because I aroused police suspicions about a year ago after doing something silly, and
                     since then I have been using lights inside but have been regulating my usage so that my power bill doesn't
                     suddenly jump. And I still had 1 week left of my no lights usage rule that I had forced myself to stick to.

                     Anyway, this female just prior to me putting her inside had clumps of white stigmas about 7mm in diameter at a
                     number of nodes. None of them have withered, and none of the bracts have formed or swollen. Right now it is jsut
                     over a week into stigma production. The male plant is also inside and it too is into flowering, and has thick
                     clumps of mostly unopened male anthers (or whatever). I think that it has been flowering for almost a week longer
                     than the female, and it has already released some pollen. So you guessed it my question is what is the latest
                     into flowering that you can safely cause a plant to revert back to vegetative growth. Like are either of these two
                     plantstoo far into flowering?

                     Just a few notes: they are growing under a 400 W MH on 18/6 light regimen, with a normal oscillating household
                     fan blowing on them. The female is positioned the closest to the fan, the male furthest. This is so that no pollen
                     will be blown from the male to the female as the air is flowing in the opposite direction. The fan is necessary
                     because of the moderate to high temps we experience herre during the day. I am using a soluble fertilizer with
                     NPK at 1:1:1 once a week. What should I do in order to fulfill my objective of reverting the female back to veg
                     growth and collecting pollen from and maybe cloning the male? Am i creating a potentially lethal situation
                     whereby the female flowers are potentially mature enough to be fertilized by pollen from the male which is like 8
                     cm from the female, in which case the female would set seed and die and I would end up with nothing? God I
                     wish I could take a photo of her flowers and scan it and show it to you guys so you would have more of an idea of
                     where I stand.
                     Anyway sorry for rambling and thanks for reading this and/or responding.



                     TOPIC - funkdified
                     DATE - 19:28:16 9/27/99
                     FROM - trelaway
                     my experience has been that sog (which is what I assume yer doing) can be a bit of a bust if growing from seed.
                     IMO, sog is a mom/clone experience.

                     Personally, in yer situation I'd cull out 12 of the best, repot to 3-5 gallon pails and work on vegging them out to a
                     full topped 18-24 inches. The 400 wont penetrate deep on three foot plants but if you have some bad luck with
                     herm/male to female ratio you will still get some decent bud cause yer more mature plants will still produce for



                     TOPIC - funkdified...
                     DATE - 11:20:21 9/27/99
                     FROM - chronic man
                     I would say that one gallon of soil per each foot of growth should be sufficient. I'm tryin to figure out this one...
                     . In the past I have observed the advice that there should be as much room in the pot for root growth as the plant
                     is tall. If that's the case, it would be awfully hard to fit a pot for a 5' tall plant. I usually use the smaller quart
                     containers until they are about 8-10", then I transplant them into 5 gallon buckets. I've had up to six foot plants in
                     these, with no problems. One thing to remeber, while they are in the quart containers, they will start to use more
                     and more water. That could be why they were droopy. So until you transplant, make sure you keep an eye on
                     your water. I usually go by weight, but if all else fails, a cheapo moisture meter works well. The small pots
                     shouldn't have any negative effect on your plants. Oh and a tip for increasing yield. If you want your plant to be
                     more bushy, tie it down. Take your growing shoots, and I use those elastic ties that stretch, so they don't
                     strangle the plant. They sell em in nurseries. Then I use thumbtacks to fasten the tie to the container. When the
                     shoots are tied down, a chemical is released, somehow telling the plant to get bushier. (in plain english hehe).
                     Good luck...
                     cHrOnIc man


                     TOPIC - a query about pot size
                     DATE - 10:14:33 9/27/99
                     FROM - funkdified
                     Hello everyone,
                     I posted this question at overgrow, but didn't receive any responses. If anyone can help out I would greatly
                     appreciate it. I have 18 plants going under a 400W HPS using Earth Juice and Maxicrop. They are all on their 6th
                     internode with an average height of 6" tall - about 4 weeks old. I have them all in pots that are roughly 1/4 gallon
                     in size. In the past I have observed the advice that there should be as much room in the pot for root growth as
                     the plant is tall. However, I would usually only have enough room for about 12 plants (before sexing) which turned
                     out to be about 6 girls at harvest time. I am trying to increase my yeild, so I started more plants that I have in the
                     past. My predicament is that I can't transplant until after I have sexed them because of my lack of space. I just
                     topped them and they are all beginning their new shoots ( I got lucky on 5 of them - I must have topped them at
                     the right place, because they have 4 tops.) In my past crops, I have been able to determine sex about a week or
                     two after toping via preflowers. My question is how much of an effect will the small pots have on my plants? Like
                     I say it should only be for about 2 weeks. They were starting to droop a little, but I added a few drops of
                     superthrive a few days ago, and, for the most part, they all perked up. Thanks - funkdified


                     TOPIC - germination
                     DATE - 08:28:22 9/27/99
                     FROM - mark
                     Please could you tell me the best way to germinate cannabis seeds


                     TOPIC - pic
                     DATE - 21:20:21 9/26/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     The above pic is a romulan backcross (R75 I think) that is growing down in the nevada desert. It shares many
                     similarities to it's romulan mom at 7 weeks. The purplish pistals are a dead giveaway. This outdoor sample is a
                     little more leafy and a little less frosty than romulan inddors though. She'll be ready to cut in about 2 weeks, if
                     her smell doesn't cause her demise sooner


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 15:10:11 9/26/99
                     FROM - .blend
                     hey a new pic!

                     what strain is that vic?



                     TOPIC - vegatation
                     DATE - 12:43:15 9/26/99
                     FROM - blacksheep
                     my strain ak47,shishkeberry i have them under
                     400w mh 18/6 i keep the temp 75-77 as of
                     yesterday they grew but not much i only germ.
                     2 seeds from each strain is this ok or should i
                     germ. all of them and then pick out the best
                     for mamas.after 15 days they are only about


                     TOPIC - temp
                     DATE - 08:51:54 9/26/99
                     FROM - spaz
                     no secret..12x12 area,1 10 inch dayton for exhaust,1 12"circulating fan. one end of my room has a pocket door
                     for a bathroom wich has a window.if its hot i open the window more,cold i start to close the window.
                     so there is no intake fan.just the airflow from my dayton.
                     pretty hi-tech eh!!


                     TOPIC - spaz...
                     DATE - 04:12:41 9/26/99
                     FROM - m.g.
                     btw, i try to keep my room running at around 75-85...


                     TOPIC - spaz...
                     DATE - 04:09:47 9/26/99
                     FROM - m.g.
                     3 1k lights and 70 degrees? what's your secret? i run the same wattage but need a rather large a/c unit to keep
                     the room cool with ambient temps at around 65-70 at night...


                     TOPIC - response to blacksheap
                     DATE - 22:53:38 9/25/99
                     FROM - farmer ted
                     depends on your setup and genetics. the average seeds under average lights will germinate and show signs of
                     rapid growth . the rapid growth usualy comes at around two days after germination.


                     TOPIC - germination/vegetation
                     DATE - 18:07:37 9/25/99
                     FROM - blacksheap
                     how long after germination should i see signs of vegetation or new leaves


                     TOPIC - wilted
                     DATE - 17:01:06 9/25/99
                     FROM - spaz
                     vic.. no im not the guy from school..
                     im using 3 1000watt m.h. iplan to add 2 more in 2 weeks.
                     temp has been @70.is this to cold??
                     ill try the split shifts


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 10:38:38 9/25/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     spaz - you the guy we picked on in high school? there was some guy with a short fuze that we called spaz,
                     haha. Anyway, describe your lighting. With high enough light intensity and temps, it's feasible that your plants
                     are getting tired. A split shift may help them handle it better if that's the case. Two 9/3 cycles per day should be
                     just as good as productive as one 18/6 cycle, but offer the plants more frequent rest periods.

                     ahhsome - take cuts and throw them in 12/12 lighting. They don't need to be rooted to show. More details in
                     weedbase archives I suspect at www.overgrow.com


                     TOPIC - C99 hybrids update
                     DATE - 10:32:58 9/25/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     OK, I figured it was time to update on the C99 growout. This update is off the yop of my head without being
                     biased from earlier notes. The main thing I noticed when entering the room is a sweet fruity aroma, very pleasant.
                     It's now day 25 of 12/12. Strains are C99, romulan, g13, and a lone chemo. I over estimated the stretching, so
                     the room isn't as crowded as I anticipated. I added the heavily preflowering grapefruit mom as a test cross, for
                     fun, since there was extra room. Also, males are dropping like flies for various reasons, adding even more space,
                     hehe. The remaining males have been in flower for about 10 days now and look like they will unload their dust
                     this week. I also took picks yesterday, hopefully they turn out :) While taking the pics, I noticed a small bit of
                     powdery mildew creeping into the room, it was on romulan and the c99 bucks. I sprayed with funginex after the
                     photo op. Today, many of the pistals turned brown as a result of the spraying.

                     OK, still the lone chemo is the most developed, calyxes have progressed to the stage of swelling. Although still
                     heavy, crystal production hasn't increased since the last evaluation. The upper shade leaves do support crystal
                     though. Smell is hard to describe, I think vanilla, but even that is a bit off, not really sweet smelling like vanilla is.
                     This plant did not stretch at all.

                     C99 - these girls are packing on the crystals AND sweet aroma. They are dominating the aroma in the room.
                     And about half of them have crystals coating the upper shade leaves, making them look the most impressive.
                     Calyxes are thick and long, and a very uniform creamy colour. I can differentiate between the strains by pistal
                     alone, hehe. These stretched the most, about 80%, a nice healthy stretch that opens up the plant allowing
                     deeper light penetration, and hopefully bigger yields. Speaking of yield, it's a tough call deciding which has
                     smaller buds, it or romulan.

                     romulan didn't stretch as much as I'm used to under the suncircle, maybe 50%. It's pistals are long like c99 but
                     much finer and have a pinkish translucent colour. Of all the strains in the room, romulan and g13 appear to have
                     the least amount of frosting, more on this later. The romulan buds are more loose than the c99, much more finely
                     built and definately behind in calyx developement. The aroma still harbours a faint sweet undertone, but the
                     typical pine aroma is starting to take over.

                     G13 stretched even less than romulan, about say 40%. It also looks much more stocky with bigger stalks. It's
                     pistals are short and creamy, a little more yellow than C99. The bud lacks aroma when compared to C99 and
                     romulan, but does have a slight fruity sweet smell. The buds are the most compact looking between it, c99, and
                     romulan. Not as well developed as the C99 though. And are the biggest of the three, but because of it's lack of
                     stretch and dense canopy, it doesn't look like it will yield a whole lot. The quality nugs don't go very deep into the
                     canopy. The bud tops have lost that dark tone that they had at the last overview.

                     Crystal notes:

                     As I previously mentioned, C99 looks much more frosty than the others. As with the g13, the crystals are
                     smaller and more clear on romulan than C99, the C99 look like a white frosting, while the other two look more
                     sparkly, if that makes any sense. So I decided to clip a sample of each and look under the dissecting scope. I
                     found all three to have roughly the same number of trichimes per unit area. The C99 ones were on by far the
                     longest stalks, about 10 - 15 times their width. And many of the heads were slightly cloudy. The G13 and
                     romulan trichomes were clear in comparison. They were about the same height as each other and about 3-4
                     times taller than wide. G13 trichomes were as fat as c99, while romulan were a bit skinnier. Also, romulan had
                     the highest concentration of sessile (undeveloped) trichomes, C99 had the least.


                     TOPIC - wilted
                     DATE - 08:21:08 9/25/99
                     FROM - spaz
                     i have just set up my room with 60 girls.
                     they seem to be doing fine(vics super soil)
                     around the 16th hour of light they are wilted as if they are sleeping ,is this normal???


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 07:12:36 9/25/99
                     FROM - ahhsome
                     Presexing how is it done?Please Help


                     TOPIC - trannys no bite hook
                     DATE - 21:33:58 9/24/99
                     FROM - hand
                     a true male that turns female is ok to use,usualy good.the true males are ok too it seems you just have to worry
                     about females that turn hermy.this from exp.they do not produce hermy females just hermy males.nice for
                     testing.no4 is hard to tell there might be hermy genes hiding in your male.if you dilute those genes too much you
                     lose that trait.i dont know what caused it,the first one just showed up.sports just happen i tried to save one,on a
                     thin skunk a bud so different i had to have,once it was growing it reverted back.this on a old clone that never
                     showed variation.sports are more likely outside,caused by radiation from space, free radicals,damages dna.they
                     shoot through your body all the time.sports are only noticable on plants you are very familiar with.enjoyed uv
                     discorse, someday i'll ad 2 cents worth.not hypothetical.escapees.i said true male dont guess.


                     TOPIC - pot
                     DATE - 21:03:58 9/24/99
                     FROM - doughman
                     i want to know more about the pot and ist ways


                     TOPIC - confused males
                     DATE - 14:43:40 9/24/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Ok, I've been doing some reading and came across an interesting question. I would love some feedback on this
                     hypothetical situation. Lets say you have a truebreeding seedline that you want to use in breeding. Now lets say
                     that the females seem to be 100% hermie free, but about 30% to 40% of the males bat for both teams.

                     1) Ant thought on what would cause this oddity? How do you get only male hermies?

                     2) what would be the outcome of using one of these hermie males in breeding? Would they produce clean
                     females but hermie males? Or is there a risk that both male AND female offspring could become hermie?

                     3) Any risk in using the "straight" males from the same seedbatch? Any breeders go through this before? This
                     should be a brain twister, hehe.

                     4) would the females carry this trait? Meaning, if you crossed a female with another male that's from hermie free
                     genetics, would the male offspring risk being hermie?

                     I've also posted this elsewhere, any help out there in solving this?


                     TOPIC - Aloha!
                     DATE - 06:27:40 9/24/99
                     FROM - Perp
                     Puna has a few meanings in Hawaiian, could mean "Favorite" (punalele), or "plaster"/"whitewash" are refered to
                     as puna, or even "cacium oxide" (lime),.. ....also puna means "spoon", and sometimes "coral". With an alphabet
                     of so few letters, words have multple meanings.......

                     There is a photo in the Nov.'99 HighTimes of about 10-12 Hawaiin strains from 1979, there is some Puna-Butter
                     and another Puna somethin'-or-other in the pic.......

                     Aloha from Cali!

                     Soul......LMAO!!!, Ha!...brings new meaning to "Kiss the Kook".....


                     TOPIC - kevin and puna butter
                     DATE - 01:04:32 9/24/99
                     FROM - pi
                     thanks for the correction

                     sub actually got the seeds from an american in adam who said that they were a pure strain and not crossed. his
                     name and the shop escape me. this american was not into the hype of the cup and such so i hope that i got the
                     real thing. will have a better idea soon.


                     TOPIC - cleansed
                     DATE - 00:11:22 9/24/99
                     FROM - Old Bud
                     Yup White Widow Web sells the peace maker, item #13 on the order form. no description though, just a price
                     (295 dfl).


                     TOPIC - Puna Butter
                     DATE - 20:09:23 9/23/99
                     FROM - Kevin
                     pi....Puna Bud or Puna Butter (the real stuff) is grown in
                     the Puna Rainforest on the Big Island of Hawaii. The rainforest is south of Hilo. No telling if the seeds are the real
                     thing....the Dutch will play all kinds of games with weed names. As far as I know, there is no island of puna. I'm
                     not sure what Puna translates too...its a Hawaiian word.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 19:08:05 9/23/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Hey Baudelaire - actually the environment can very much affect the frequency of sports. Basically, mutagens are
                     sport creators and there are many, uv just being one of them. Cancer is a type of sport of the human body, but
                     since we don't clone too well, we don't propagate that sport as a general rule, hehe, except in the lab, haha.
                     Colchicine is a known mutagen of our hobby.

                     Oh yeah, ROTFLMFAO on the liar comment.

                     Cleansed, I'm going to break my "no seedbank discussion rule" but he's no longer a seedbank, so no harm I
                     think. Don't waste your time considering Weedseed, nothing left to trust there.



                     TOPIC - Peacemaker
                     DATE - 16:31:09 9/23/99
                     FROM - Baudelaire
                     LOL- "secret of the kook" Ain't that the truth! White widow's probably the greatest advance in canna strains of the
                     90s, and here we are at the end of the decade, every seedbank carries a version, plus a raft of Widow crosses,
                     and still the "secret" heritage of the strain is held close by the "kook". Ingmar certainly has a way with the
                     English language.

                     FWIW, Mike of Weedseed infamy claimed he was told that Peacemaker was just Shiva Shanti with a new name.
                     So I guess you can choose to believe the "kook" or a liar.



                     TOPIC - puna bud
                     DATE - 13:07:30 9/23/99
                     FROM - pi
                     i currently have 10 plants in my grow called puna BUTTER... not bud! supposedly a strain from the island of puna
                     which has a good hi and a great taste/smell.

                     a bud of mine bought them in adam.

                     2f ready to flower: 8 colas @ 30". will trim for 16 colas

                     8 of 10 seedlings survived and were transplanted to 6" pots yesterday.

                     the 2 preflowering f's seem to be cut from the sativa mold just shorter. the seedlings are showing indica stocky at
                     it should be kept in mind that i have made great improvements in my lumens between the 2 batches so i will
                     reserve judegemnt on phenotypes etc at this point. 2 look sativa and 8 look indica?


                     TOPIC - Peacemaker
                     DATE - 10:09:48 9/23/99
                     FROM - Cleansed
                     Thanks for the research....:)....i couldnt find the seeds on his site tho....Is there nowhere to get this
                     strain?!?!...It's a shame the dampkring page is so crappy ...I know they have it and maybe they sell some seeds
                     at the shop...i only visited the smaller Tweede Kamer and my brain was fairly misty back then so i didnt notice
                     what was on their seed list.....also,what happened to the weedseed site?...There are a couple of places i could
                     go here in London but he sounds like the best option...


                     TOPIC - FYI Peacemaker Info
                     DATE - 06:21:21 9/23/99
                     FROM - Soul
                     Hey Y'all_~ I received this reply to a question on Peacemaker by Ingemar & wanted to "share it with the class":

                     > I have the following question:
                     > I've heard "PeaceMaker" is the same cross as Great White
                     > Shark...namely, White Widow/Skunk#1. Is this accurate?
                     > Thanks in advance - Soul.

                     Hi mr. Soul,,

                     I'm sorry that's the secret of the kook.


                     > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
                     > Van: MrSoul@england.com [mailto:MrSoul@england.com]
                     > Verzonden: zondag 19 september 1999 17:48
                     > Aan: contact@whitewidowweb.com
                     > Onderwerp: WWW-contact-us
                     > Pagina : http://www.whitewidowweb.com/contact.htm



                     TOPIC - best kind of seeds
                     DATE - 22:55:09 9/22/99
                     FROM - The Wildcat
                     What is the most powerful strain of seeds available
                     to buy over the web and where do I get them?



                     TOPIC - OT1 - Hey sport!
                     DATE - 11:30:32 9/22/99
                     FROM - Baudelaire
                     Well you've almost got me convinced about sports. But isn't this phenomena still quite rare? I mean, if fruit trees
                     regularly mutated "on the limb", wouldn't it be impossible to maintain the different Cox varieties? Or to register
                     the sports as distinct strains?

                     This begs the question as to how easily mj clones produce sports, but my guess is that the frequency is still
                     quite low, and certainly not a predictable occurence. Also, do you believe the sport phenomenon is
                     environmentally-induced? My thoughts are that probably are not, that they are distinctly genetic in nature.
                     Otherwise, the Cox sports would not be stable, and would worthless as a commercial crop. I know that
                     commercial bananas are almost universally of the Cavendish variety (developed by one of your countrymen). The
                     strain has been propagated solely by clone since the 1880s I believe, and the variety remains the stable big
                     producer it was a century ago. In fact, some are worried the strain is TOO stable, and that it's near universal
                     application throughout the world has set the banana biz up for a big virus- or pest-induced fall.



                     TOPIC - Evaporative cooling mister's. occam
                     DATE - 10:14:20 9/22/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     Hey Friends I recall a few people looking for fine mister's awhile back for cooling or humidifying. This company
                     has thier entire line at Lowe's now. I also have idea's for finer mister's if anyone wants/needs it too. I think I'll put
                     1 over each table on a timer for foliar misting etc..Food for thought and a link;)
                     occam I'm always hungry for new/different reading material and schools of thought. Please pass it on if it isn't a
                     hassle, My email is above and thankYou!

                                                       Link: Arizona Mist


                     TOPIC - edible wild plants
                     DATE - 23:34:05 9/21/99
                     FROM - iibro
                     hey dude...... that's a little throw off topic, but anyways i was reading about your chemo strain "c99" and my
                     curiousity got the best of me....... i've been at bongblasters place and i sure would like to see for myself the end
                     result of your c99. if you reply please do so under the topic of edible wild plants hehehehe.......lol


                     TOPIC - Puna Bud
                     DATE - 21:09:53 9/21/99
                     FROM - Wadsworth
                     In college I smoked something called "Puna Bud". It was supposed to be from Hawaii. It was bright green and
                     very strong smelling. Maybe what Cleansed tried was puna bud. The way he describes it is how I would describe
                     puna bud. As I recall someone grew some of this under a street light and it was a sativa.

                     My blueberry seeds have sprouted and the romberry & Purple passion are starting their 2nd set of leaves.

                     Still haven't found anything out about Eco-Technics lights. Has anyone heard anything about these lights? Its a
                     6" dia. round glass tube w/a 400w HPS. On one end I put a duct fan and the other has flex duct leading out of
                     the grow chamber.
                     Its a clever set up. d;^)-~


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 15:34:02 9/21/99
                     FROM - oldtimer1
                     All apples varieties in the UK are clone stock the same goes for pears plums gages,cherries, peaches and
                     nectarines non come true from seed! The size they get to depends on the rootstock they are grafted or budded
                     on I thought this was the case in the states as well. KQ would know! Yes there was only one Cox from seed in
                     its original form it required a compatible apple planted with it so they can pollinate one another as it is self sterile
                     on its own no pollination no fruit!! The self fertile version is quite new but some of the other mutations have been
                     stable for over 50 years. We call this happening a sport. It happens frequently with plants that are propagated
                     vegetatively like perpetual carnations, pinks, auricularís and the like. It also happens with roses ivy and a whole
                     range of shrubs as well, if you find a sport on a popular plant where the breeders rights have run out you can
                     make a lot of money. Sorry but its true and should be easy for you to check up on!

                     All the best Ot1.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 13:50:49 9/21/99
                     FROM - Baudelaire
                     OT1- Got no quarrel with you regarding intergenerational mutations, i.e., from seed. But mutating clones? How
                     close to Chernobyl are you? This is where you and I (and I believe Soul) part minds. I will consider your Cox
                     apple examples on their face, but never having heard of that variety or its mutability, I must reserve judgement
                     until you or I can find some cites to back them up. One thing- you say the Coxes are all from the same clone,
                     but that one variety is "self-fertile". Wouldn't that variety be grown from seed then? Are you SURE all the other
                     varieties are reproduceable only via clone?

                     All of your other cannabis-specific clone mutation examples seem easily explained by environmental conditions.
                     Clones grown in different soils, lighting regimens, nutrients, temperature ranges, UV intensity, etc., will look and
                     smell and smoke differently to some degree. It is imprudent to ascertain genetic recombination from mere
                     physical variations from one clone to another without first eliminating ALL environmental factors that are
                     influencing the individuals in question. And that is more or less impossible to do outside of a laboratory setting.



                     TOPIC - Glass
                     DATE - 11:35:52 9/21/99
                     FROM - occam
                     Blazer, The info is from "Greenhouse Manager" magazine in an article called "Technological advancements yield
                     specialized greenhouse coverings", Nov. 1990. A little out of date perhaps. There's not a whole lot more useful
                     info, but I can post more if you want, or email to save bandwidth?


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 11:26:49 9/21/99
                     FROM - oldtimer1
                     Soul a broken record ëAí hehe well as you know Iím just a guy who works with his hands Iím not a scientist!
                     Plant's genes are GENERALLY constant but not INVARIABLY SO! Firstly plant and seed mutations are very
                     common. Whole blocks and small bits of genetic code often recombine in new ways. Plant breeders copyright
                     law recognise this, where breeders release registered clones for commercial propagation. Someone finding a new
                     colour break or form in a registered clone usually gets a finders fee + if they are lucky a small percentage per
                     plant if the new find is released commercially. But the new form still belongs to the original copyright holder.
                     Even the famous English coxes orange pippin apple has produced sports. Since Mr Cox planted that famous
                     seed it has been reproduced by cloning. There have probably been hundreds of mutations, currently there are
                     several available commercially, Queen cox, King cox, Algroves cox and even self fertile cox. They have all been
                     taken from branches with a desirable sport condition then after several years trialing to prove its not a recessive
                     mutation and that it produces added desirable attributes its put on the market. Without plants ability to produce
                     mutated changes also in the seed generations things would be pretty fixed you wouldn't have say red cabbage,
                     ball headed cabbage winter cabbage, cauliflowers, sprouting, brusselsprouts etc we would still be eating that
                     tough little brassica that grows on chalky land near the sea. Ok it took man to conserve any mutations found and
                     develop new forms by crossing with other mutated forms.

                     As far as I know all the most potent forms of cannabis have developed in high alitude areas world wide. Various
                     combinations of those genetics are in most of the so called drug varieties of today. I would love to be able to do
                     some breeding outdoors where the climate would support a natuarl plant life cycle. Given the choice at 30 deg or
                     so north I would pick peasenessís altitude against sealevel. Mainly because I think it would alow each plant to
                     express its full potential within its genetic makeup as far as complex thc production is concerned. This would
                     make selection easier the slow method. Secondly the chances of the odd branch or plant having a favorable
                     mutation in an enviroument with enhanced shortwave radiation would be greater, thats pretty quick if you can
                     take a cutting or seed! Yes I think the reverse is true given growing conditions that would tend to select against
                     thc production, How many times have you heard a grower say that a mother he has been useing for some time is
                     producing cuttings that hermy or have suddenly lost that special aroma or the yield has gone down. Now I know
                     it could be viral if mites have been involved but I suspect a lot of the time its just that the mother plant has



                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 10:51:50 9/21/99
                     FROM - Cleansed
                     Hey all...recently ordered some seeds from Sag....2 days and they arrived...Anybody have any ideas what i
                     might get out of their indoor mix...plus will keep you up to date with growth details etc.....:)....Thanks for the
                     feedback concerning Hawaiian and Peacemaker....still no clues about the history or whereabouts of Peace but
                     will keep looking...I loved that strain..:)


                     TOPIC - Off the UV trodden path
                     DATE - 09:26:14 9/21/99
                     FROM - ShareCropper
                     I had an interesting sprout that maybe some of you have seen. I presprout my seeds before planting in soil and
                     one of them had 2 root tips emerge. I planted as usual in soil. It has since developed into two separate sprouts. I
                     have sprouted a lot of seeds and never have I seen this happen. I plan on growing to maturity if they survive. Any
                     ideas on this?



                     TOPIC - Pollen & UV
                     DATE - 09:06:38 9/21/99
                     FROM - Baudelaire
                     Okay, before we get carried away with UV's mutagenic properties, let's remember that cannabis and it's pollen
                     have been adapting to Earth's range of UV levels quite well for a few million years or so...It seems to be doing

                     KQ, pollen can't "mutate", only germ cells in the seed can mutate. You mean that the DNA in the pollen grain
                     could be altered or damaged, I believe. But if pollen DNA was "easily" altered by UV, cannabis would've mutated
                     itself to extinction long before the first sadhu carved a chillum. Remember, mutations are a key aspect of
                     adaptation, but it is a brutal process which is overwhelmingly negative for the individuals involved- 99.9% of
                     mutations do not survive to reproduce.

                     Generally, arbitrary mutation is not regarded as a productive breeding strategy. That said, I do know of some
                     large-scale environmentally-induced mutation/adaptation breeding programs being conducted on farm crops by a
                     major biochemical company in the U.S. as an alternative to the genetically engineered crops developed by
                     Monsanto. But I believe the program incorporates environmental stressing to isolate highly adaptive genotypes
                     rather than relying on mutations for breakthroughs. Basically, they choke an acre of pepper seedlings with their
                     favorite herbicide, and breed the ones that survive. So they can market a seed that is "greener" than Monsanto.
                     Wonders of modern science.



                     TOPIC - My contribution to the ongoing UV symposium
                     DATE - 07:31:32 9/21/99
                     FROM - KQ
                     Pollen is easily mutated then killed with strong UV. UV can easily mess with DNA from pollen as the whole
                     pollen grain is small and transparent to UV.
                     UV acts on pollen floating thru the air via its ionizing radiation properties! More UV, more chances of mutation
                     that the subsequent season may or may not incorporate into the gene pool.


                     TOPIC - I may sound like a "broken record", but...
                     DATE - 05:17:36 9/21/99
                     FROM - Soul
                     OT1_~ You seem to believe that the GENES of the parent plants can be altered by their growing environment &
                     their offspring will reflect that environment? You wrote to Peaceness, "I would love to have access to an
                     environment like that to do some BREEDING in". Do you continue to believe that the environment in which the
                     parents are grown influences the offspring?

                     A plant's genes are CONSTANT, they do not change in response to the environment...they are simply the
                     "blueprints" which dictate the individual's response to the environment it's being grown in.

                     Suppose, for example, I pollinate a clone from "Princess" grown outdoors with the same pollen I use to pollinate
                     another Princess clone grown indoors; despite the environmentally-induced differences in the APPEARANCE of
                     each clone, the seeds produced by each will be the SAME. If they weren't, then seed banks would have to
                     carefully duplicate the parent plant's growing conditions for each seed crop to avoid causing variance in the
                     outcome of the resulting seeds.

                     As long as the SAME two parents are crossed, the seed will be CONSTANT in it's genetic profile, regardless of
                     the environment the parents were grown in.

                     If your parents had lived in the US when you were conceived, do you think it would have influenced the color of
                     your skin, eyes, or hair?

                     Peace, love & understanding {"8^)_~


                     TOPIC - Sorry buddy...
                     DATE - 23:45:20 9/20/99
                     FROM - shaggy
                     I've been out of town for a little while and haven't had a chance to look at that thread we started. I'd love to keep it
                     going, though. I'll have a response up tomorrow night. Sorry for the delay. I just did some amazing class IV and V
                     whitewater rafting....glad I'm still alive!

                     stay safe,

                     Any takers on my question?


                     TOPIC - ATTN SHAGGY
                     DATE - 21:57:59 9/20/99
                     FROM - KGB
                     Hey man, didja see the response to your post in the shark tank re Thailand and Thai weed, etc.? Would still love
                     to discuss it there, if yer into it....




                     TOPIC - budding
                     DATE - 20:59:00 9/20/99
                     FROM - no name
                     hope someone can help?
                     i have 2 plants in bud (8 weeks) all the others are done
                     is it ok if i put them in a veg room for 12 hrs a day until they are done??if any what may be the downfall and to
                     wich plants?


                     TOPIC - Blah Blah Blah
                     DATE - 20:03:08 9/20/99
                     FROM - Curious George
                     Vic, you're right about it being a "no reply" E-mail service that I've been using. Until such time as I can get my
                     computer upgraded, and my computer skills improved, I'll have to make it a one-way street. What can I say?
                     "Paranoia strikes deep, Into your heart it will creep ... "

                     Oldtimer, I suspect that the researchers use leaf samples because it's easier to get consistant samples from leaf
                     than from calayxes, especially if they are measuring levels throughout the plants life cycle, during most of which
                     there are No calaxes to measure. Leaves are always available for measurement.

                     How or why the levels of THC change during the day are both unknown to me ... I just know that the reported
                     research shows that it happens ... the levels were shown to be highest in early AM and then went down, and
                     then went up during the middle of the day, but not quite up to the levels of the early AM. Whether this a reaction
                     to UV or something else, I haven't a clue ... though I do recall reading a post somewhere about the chemistry of
                     the canniboids and their progression along the metabolic pathways. At least the relationships between the
                     constituent chemicals have been researched. What use we can make of that information remains to be seen.

                     Yesterday it was reported that Bill Bradley, the only Democrat besides Al Gore now running for the presidential
                     nomination, has admitted smoking weed "on several occasions" during a Sunday morning show on ABC. He
                     evidently also asked Sam Donaldson if he had ever smoked ... Sam was evidently flustered when the tables were
                     turned on him. ( The less said about Cokie Roberts, the slime-sucking snitch bitch, the better.)

                     Does it make sence that seeds developed for indoor use would be even better when grown outdoors, with
                     unlimited CO2 and "real" UV?

                     Just Curious



                     TOPIC - occam & iron glass
                     DATE - 17:22:17 9/20/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     Man I must of been thinking crystal or something...LOL It is low iron glass. I'd like to read a little more about that
                     if You have it. What percentage passes through ordinary glass I wonder? Cool and thanks for the info.


                     TOPIC - Watering at a low pH...
                     DATE - 17:00:13 9/20/99
                     FROM - shaggy
                     There was a bit of discussion awhile back about watering plants with a low pH organic fertilizers (ala Earth
                     Juice). The question was does this necessarily hurt the plant as the pH could rise over time (just like it would in
                     a bubbling resevoir)?

                     I know ~S~ used to bubble his Earth Juice up to 7 then knock it down w/some catalyst. Any opinions on
                     whether this step is necessary?



                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 15:20:26 9/20/99
                     FROM - oldtimer1
                     peacness I donít think I said that growing at high elevations made plants finish quicker. For every 100 ft above
                     sea level you loose x number of days of viable growing season depending on the latitude. The indica plants from
                     the Hindu kush area would be perfectly adapted to where you are given that your local weather patterns are
                     similar. At 1500 meters the oxygen and CO2 levels are lower photosynthesis is slower. The air is cleaner and
                     thinner the light balance is altered towards the blue spectrum, I have a feeling you should have some pretty
                     potent puff i envy you, I would love to have access to an environment like that to do some breeding in. If you want
                     tall plants, the sats from above Herat would be the thing for you I donít know any one with any now and until
                     things settle down in Afghanistan its unlikely any will become available, they are so adapted that even at 3000
                     meters they come up through the snow as it melts in the spring and are more frost resistant than the indicas
                     farmed a thousand meters or so below.

                     I help out with a Zoo and reptiles and some insects need uv They use polycarbonate between mercury lamps and
                     the animals as glass converts most of the uv to lower wavelengths.

                     shaggy I have had friends suffer with snow blindness in less than a day trying to rub a few more pucks at high
                     altitude in Kashmir after an early snow fall in Sep there is plenty of uv up there even then. The best grass I ever
                     had came from Kenya, a multinational turfed all the villages out of the area to grow coffee! To this day i wont buy
                     Kenya coffee a small protest on my part.

                     CG I remember you saying about resin not meaning thc, 2 years ago a friend found a hemp field in Cornwall
                     these plants had a lot of resin and smelled good so took a bag full of heads, this is the EC recommended French
                     low thc type, guaranteed to be less than .03% thc. I just had to try it, well you could smoke a bin liner full of it
                     and it wouldn't do a thing.
                     On the thc thing a suggestion, tricomes are most densely formed on the calyxes, so may be its to protect that
                     precious seed. Thc has been said to be a very efficient uv filter. Could it be that when the sun light is at its
                     brightest that the uv breaks down the thc faster than it is being metabolised? If this was true then the glands
                     would be recharging overnight. That would also mean the best time to harvest your grass would be at dawn?
                     Have you noticed that a lot of scientists tend to use leaf samples I would have thought that taking a few calyxes
                     from a bud would be more consistent and to keep using the same bud. Only idle speculation. Ot1.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 08:42:35 9/20/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     C George - thanks for the email, I didn't reply because I didn't know if that type allows replies, hehe. Thanks for
                     the help and if you could give some details, like amount, hehe, I won't stop in trying to account for it, hehe.

                     Baudelaire - do you do email? Got a Q about a recent contribution of yours.

                     MG - leave that mystery plant alone!! haha. I'm still laughing that I didn't remeber what it was!! Good thing I didn't
                     accidently send those to someone who lives in an apt.


                     TOPIC - a1 auction
                     DATE - 07:30:50 9/20/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Most of the current discussion on the A1 auction is taking place at www.overgrow.com and is taking place on
                     their "special projects" page. I had also created a tally sheet and some rough notes at

                     However, lack of feedback from the recipients has stalled things. Check out the overgrow site for more details, an
                     dplease give some feedback on how to proceed. It's not my descion to make it's yours :)


                     TOPIC - vic
                     DATE - 06:54:18 9/20/99
                     FROM - diane
                     I've been away lately, but I've seen
                     some mention here of a seed sale/auction
                     for A-1. Will that be here on this board?



                     TOPIC - peaceness...
                     DATE - 00:00:44 9/20/99
                     FROM - m.g.
                     are you doing it in pots or natural ground? i've found plants in pots will mature faster than grounded plants.

                     btw, i'm at same lat but at 2500'. most the bc plants i get are short and bulky while the sat-doms are the trees
                     you may be searching for. hope to have a nice cross available by x-mas for you and everyone to try out. it will be
                     a c99 x humboldt skunk with the skunk coming from a plant from appx 20 years ago. it's a late bloomer but
                     hopefully he c99 will cut the flower time down a bit. at any rate...the humboldt skunk is a nice, HUGE plant
                     similar to cali-o with multi-poundage/plant under southerly conditions.


                     TOPIC - Mississippi Studies
                     DATE - 20:09:01 9/19/99
                     FROM - Curious George
                     Oldtimer: Your mention of "studies in Mississippi" triggered the firing of some neurons and synapses that were
                     long dormant. Those studies were done for several years in the mid 70's, under contract to the U.S. Government,
                     at the University of Mississippi in Oxford. As I recall, a lot of the findings were published.
                     During that period, under a peculiar set of circumstances, I was able to do a short "interview" with Dr. Carlton
                     Turner, the guy who directed the project. ( Actually, I was pumping him hard for useful grow information. ) The
                     bottom line, as far as he was concerned, was genetics. Once a strain was selected, he believed in "treating it
                     just like corn". He also indicated that cannabis was an "exhaustive" plant that would use all of the nutrients that
                     could be provided. ( I'm inclined to believe this ... a simple outdoor test with clones in several sizes of prepared
                     hole could be interesting in this regard.)
                     I remember one of the published studies from this project involved testing plants for THC/CBD/CBN on a regular
                     schedule. This bears on the "Why" of THC production ... as opposed to the "Why" of trichome production.
                     If the "goodies" are only a form of protection for the plant from UV and desication, then the THC levels would be
                     highest when this protection is most needed, in mid-day and early afternoon. However, these studies showed
                     otherwise. The levels were checked on leaf samples that were taken on an Hourly Basis, over several months.
                     The levels of drug constituents were graphed and were shown to be changing on a monthly, weekly, daily , and
                     Hourly basis, with the highest levels occuring in the early morning.

                     How much "drift" from these levels happens when the herb is harvested is unknown to me. Presumably a "30 day
                     cure" has some effect on the constituent chemicals as well as the taste and aroma, but I'm not going to worry
                     about it.



                     TOPIC - OT1: Alltitude
                     DATE - 18:23:52 9/19/99
                     FROM - peaceness
                     hello all, outdoors is going good, have harvested p.75 and g13xnlb outdoors already, have about 2 weeks more
                     for the p.75xromberry, ww14, superskunk, romberry, and about 3 and a half weeks for the n.l. 5 x sk. 1. this
                     leads me to my question which i have been VERY curious about. i am growing at 5000 feet elevation at 35
                     degrees lattitude. i have noticed that vegettaive growth along with height for all my plants has not been signficant
                     at all. in fact the plants have gotten about 3 feet tall average, with multiple tops, as i prunned early, as compared
                     to many growers whose plants get 6' plus. keep in mind that i planted clones outdoors on may 15.
                     I find this dissapointing as i wanted huge trees. also, the plants are maturing earlier than most growers i have
                     spoken with, in fact one of my plants g13xnlb is already ready as opposed to a buddy of mine who harvests the
                     same plant 2nd week of october but at different elevations and altitudes.

                     my questions are:
                     1. at higher alttitudes, do plants grow slower, and stay shorter as compared to lower elevation growing?

                     2. ot1 mentioned that at higher alttitdes, plants finish quicker, has anyone else experienced this?


                     TOPIC - Greenhouse glass
                     DATE - 17:47:18 9/19/99
                     FROM - occam
                     Hi Blazer, I'm not sure about low-lead glass, but modern greenhouse glass is generally a low-iron formulation,
                     that is advertised as providing "higher light transmissions reaching 91 to 95 percent".
                     There is also a "low E glass" that has a metallic oxide applied to the surface that reflects long wave radiation.
                     At least that's the claim by the manufacturers.


                     TOPIC - blazer chameleon question
                     DATE - 16:39:05 9/19/99
                     FROM - cedartop
                     little off the wall, but wondering what chameleons eat. the reason for the question is my mother years ago used
                     to keep a chameleon or two in her flower pots in the house. she claimed that they controlled any bug problems
                     and i gotta admit she always had pretty plants. wondering if they might be good in another type of organic


                     TOPIC - OT1
                     DATE - 16:13:04 9/19/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     You mentioned the loss of UV as the light passes through it. When I was breeding chameleons a few years ago,
                     UV was a huge issue for them to metabolize certain vitamins etc.. I was told by another breeder to use "low lead
                     glass" to reduce that loss through the window or in this case, a HID hood. Well I have never heard the lighting
                     comapnies making any mention of it, but I did hear that many greenhouse's are made from it. Well I can't even
                     find a thread of this sort of glass's existence so far. Have You ever heard that 1 or think "We" are loosing much
                     UV via the glass? I know it's minimal and a silly Q that probably won't lead anywhere, just curious. TIA


                     TOPIC - WOW
                     DATE - 16:09:05 9/19/99
                     FROM - shaggy
                     God I Love this board! Please keep these conversations going! Props to all of you on this crazy ass conversation.

                     BTW I've smoked crazy weed in the Himalayas and next to the equator. Very different UV levels there.



                     TOPIC - Hawaiian, OT1
                     DATE - 14:42:35 9/19/99
                     FROM - Baudelaire
                     Cleansed- I'd recommend the Hawaiian Indica from Sensi Seeds, Amsterdam. Excellent sale price right now
                     through ubino.com Not the most powerful, but has great fruity/lemony taste and nice sativa-laced high. Good
                     weight as well. A favorite day weed for me that I keep coming back to.

                     OT1- That was some righteous history, man. Building lightboxes 35 year ago, I'm incredulous. I bought my first
                     growbook out of a classified ad in Rolling Stone magazine in 1973. Soon I was popping seeds in Dixie cups and
                     planting the starts in raspberry thickets all over the place. Usually be about a week before the rabbits got em.
                     Once and a while one would take hold and then, holy hell, Jack-in-the-Beanstalk time. Come October's frosts
                     we'd be baking shade leaves in the oven, ripping our lungs out and hoping Charlie scored that Colombo brown
                     he'd been bragging about for a week. Then, one strange long fall in 1978, one of our backwoods plants grew
                     short, got all fuzzy with flowers, and even crystalled up a little before we had to chop. Yee-haw! But growing bag
                     seed, we didn't know we had finally grown an indica cross, probably a skunk. Just thought we'd got lucky. Our
                     grow world was never the same after that. Bag weed lost its seeds, quadrupled in price, and turned from brown to
                     green. It got you more stoned, but not as high, as per your distinction. But if you found a stray seed in the sinse
                     bud, you could grow and finish weed in New York, or Kentucky, or Oregon. And so it went....



                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 13:54:16 9/19/99
                     FROM - oldtimer1
                     Soul Iím sorry But I still think Iím expressing myself badly. A year ago I brought up our findings on the lighting
                     pretty much as below and was pooh poohed both here and else where, including at the time by your good self.
                     My contention then and now is that just using sodium lights alone makes it very hard to differentiate the
                     exceptional and doesn't allow the genetics to express their potential if thats the way you want to say it. Iíve been
                     told time after time Iím wrong about this! Think back! Well I still donít think so. Iíll restate what i said below the
                     indoor strains developed in the states were grown with metal arc halides they gave off a bigger percentage of uv
                     than the current halides especially the colour enhanced ones. The Dutch have done at least two seed crops a
                     year for the last 10 to 15 years using mostly highbay 400 w sodiums if this isnít a pathway to poor breeding and
                     stock degeneration i donít know what else I can say. Wernard was aware of this years ago and had it posted at
                     his positronics site that the loss of uv through glass had a noticeable effect on the potency of the end product
                     using known clones. Consequently they grew grass for sale under plastic using darkening to finish it early not for
                     cheapness but because he cared about the quality of the end product. I think its a while since you have been in
                     the dam, I think you are in for a shock when you try the quality of the current product and not a good one at that.
                     Next year Iím going to put out some C99 for folks to try outdoors and under glass etc it is fast unlike my vars. I
                     want to see what our environment does to it. Our current stock varies in physical form a lot given different growing
                     conditions, All i have done is connect that with what i have read in the past and said ok it seems to match.
                     Baudelaire says different I don't disbelieve him but what he says just doesn't match with what my vars did here.
                     DIG Resellers in the uk selling dutch seeds in origanal packs charge a little more than they are over the counter
                     in the dam. Any thing else could be bird seed!



                     TOPIC - WHY R SEEDS SO MUCH MONEY?
                     DATE - 13:10:04 9/19/99
                     FROM - DIG
                     I have seen seed from Amsterdam that are the same as the seed you are selling and are not $100-200
                     I was in England and at the back of megs they have seeds forsale 30 pounds 20 pounds UK, I don't know why
                     you can't lower you prices? because i can't afored that price $180 for 10 seeds, I could get 100 seeds for 35
                     pounds UK,


                                                          Link: none


                     TOPIC - Cleansed
                     DATE - 11:11:32 9/19/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     I must concur w/ OT1 on Your seed shopping. I have bought Amsterdam strains on about 12 different occasions,
                     paid top dollar. Out of all those strians, I have 1 ak47 that I consider a keeper. So out of a thousand +dollars, I
                     have 1 plany to show and the rest of the garden are genetics from the people that are contributing to the auction
                     and Our collective breeding in N. America. I say to hell w/ the dutch strians IMO, they have just wasted My
                     time(lotsa time!) and money. All the killers Your looking for will be on the block there, I promise. Not to mention
                     helping fight the fight for freedom and A-1, which is all in the same practically. I'm gonna buy just for kicks, I have
                     more seeds than I think I'll grow out in My life time, but just the idea of having them all just in case is worth it;)
                     My 2 cents;)
                     OH BTW I do have a vial of seeds that a friend gave to Me. He lived in Hawaii in the 70's and saved a vial of
                     seeds from back then and gavethem to Me. They haven't been stored worth a shit and most do not look viable,
                     but I have around 30 to work w/. I don't have room for a plant like this( I think it'll be a huge sativa). I may germ
                     some and see or pass them on, I'll decide asap and spread them out. Remember ALL, sharing is where it's at
                     friends...Or I think it should be;).


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 09:50:14 9/19/99
                     FROM - oldtimer1
                     Cleansed There is going to be a seed auction for A_1ís defence soon at overgrow. There will be some top vars
                     going, take a look at the list when Vic updates it! Personally I think you will find better there! The boutique
                     breeders are from the vars I have tried, producing better seed at the present than the Dutch! The chance of you
                     finding the Hawaiian you liked so much is remote, Your best chance would be to go the cafe and try and get an
                     intro to the grower and buy a rooted clone. Depending on how unique the var is will cost from 50 to thousands of
                     gilders. The puff vars sold in coffee shops have been selected from growing out hundreds of seeds before
                     selecting a mum for production.
                     Hope this helps a little. Ot1


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 09:49:28 9/19/99
                     FROM - oldtimer1
                     Baudelaire You have given me a lot to think about I just love this its stimulating! The reference to physical
                     changes and thc/cbd/cbn ratios came from High Times or Sensemilla tips or may be from one of the writers of
                     books associated with them. I have read most of the magazines and books over the years its hard to remember
                     which but I seem to remember the university of Mississippi being mentioned if thats any help. As to your
                     knowledge of how things grow area to area in the states, I cant dispute yours being first hand mine from reading.
                     As to personal observations matching what I have read Iíll out line them you analyse them for me and maybe we
                     can get some light from a different perspectives. When I first tried growing here 35 + years ago it was from stash
                     seed mainly from Africa, Jamaica and a little from south America. Well they did just what you said about the
                     Mexican in cali except they would be dead by November and would have hardly started flowering. I tried growing
                     in pots and bringing them under glass, no go they just went longer and made loads of twigs with few calyxes and
                     the odd white pistils usually hermy to boot. It was crap to smoke and barely potent. A friend of mine at the time
                     was studying at the glasshouse crop research institute suggested that it was a photo periodic prob [we didnít
                     know about light hours at the time] and took me to see the darkening system they were developing for
                     chrysanthemums. He also suggested maybe lights could be used. So about 35 years ago I built my first indoor
                     flowering cabinet just to finish a plant off. I used growlux tubes over head and down the sides which knowing what
                     I do now were pretty useless, even so they did the job producing some semi potent if a little green tasting puff. It
                     took a while to work out 11 hrs light and 13 hrs dark was needed for them to flower properly somewhat different
                     to todays plants with indica in using 12/12. Any how we got some quite palatable smoke. Looking at it in todays
                     light the furthest from the equator any of these plants came from was 18 deg and they seem very hard to adapt in
                     a pure form as even with protection I never produced a viable seed. I have little experience with pure Indicaís.
                     Depending on who you believe as to its natural range. It is either a lower altitude plant that grew in valley bottoms
                     in northern Afghanistan that was developed to meet the expanding western demand, or more to my way of
                     thinking brought by the Bokhara refugees when they fled the Russians in the 1870ís to Afghanistan and Chinese
                     Turkestan. Either way its centre of adaption would be 35 deg north in the first inst or 40 deg in the second, at
                     valley altitudes 1500 to 2000 m that would make it fairly well adapted to quite a lot of the USA apart from the
                     altitude affecting the light spectrum and season length being longer at lower alt!

                     Most of the seed that provided the genetics for our todays mothers came from American hippies who were
                     connected with some semi religious commune group devoted to weed. Were crosses made with seed brought
                     from Afghanistan to sativas and developed field scale in California. These folk used to visit the squat we lived in at
                     the time! Going back to cally for the autumn harvest and coming back in the new year / spring with sun grown
                     buds that were pretty dam good and new seeds for me, I have a lot to thank them for! Our stock plants are all
                     sativa heavy as far as genetics go although not always by looks! We keep our selected lines going as mums, the
                     longest I have kept a mum alive is 15 years before having to reclone it. All were selected for potent sativa highs
                     each unique and also for form to suite our growing system. As far as I can tell there has been no deterioration
                     over the years and the quality is as good now as when grown the first time from seed given the same growing
                     conditions. Where things seem to change is when growing conditions are changed. We experimented with
                     lighting using our vars. Using just sodium light the high becomes flat and boring still very strong and the buds
                     resinous but the structure not as dense. When just grown under a HQI-T MH the quality of the high is a whole lot
                     better with plenty of up and much more exciting. The bud quality is better but producing 30% less crop weight.
                     Using a combination of the two lights produces the best bud weight, density and psycoactivly the best high>

                     Transfer interrupted!

                     commercial northern lights was included in this test it made little difference to its stone I wonít say high, under
                     the different light combinations but its best weight came from the sodium alone. We blind tested our var on over
                     20 smokers saying we were selecting 3 similar plants asking them to select the best as a keeper, non selected
                     the sodium only, 4 liked the halide best the rest the combination. 50 w per sq ft was used in each cubical the
                     soil and feed was the same. The same plant it has been grown in a glass conservatory a polytunnel and outside
                     in a sunny sheltered spot. The plant under lights was selected for being columnar in form. Under glass it
                     stretched had long gaps between long branches that were lax flopping all over the place the leaves were larger
                     paler green broader and hanging down. The buds were soft, fluffy and long, they were cut early Nov, There was
                     little smell or taste, calyxes were large and sparse tricome development. The stone was low down similar to the
                     sodium grow but nowhere as good. The outdoor grow were tall and wippy small dark green leaves the pistils were
                     white but the small bud leaves went bright purple at the end of Sep they were cut 10 th of Oct due to continuous
                     rain causing the start of botritus. The calyxes were tiny as were the tricomes the buds were full of small leaves
                     that were covered with tricomes as well. Surprisingly this had a lot more up than the crop grown under the
                     sodium but not as strong over all it beat the under glass crop hands down, but was a bit green tasting to smoke.
                     The 3 plants grown under the homemade polytunnel was the biggest surprise it was 15 ft high x 15 ft w x 20 ft
                     long the plants grew sturdy short nodes wide strong branches, by the time they were cut at the end of October
                     the whole thing was full side to side end to end and protruding out of the end flaps it had to be cut as night frosts
                     were forecast. The stems at ground level were 2 to 2.5 inches in diameter and the main leaves enormous dark
                     green hanging down like large hands. The buds were still 90% white but had density and were frosty with
                     tricomes once again the buds were full of small leaves [they didn't turn purple]! This makes them a nightmare to
                     trim, indoors this is an easy plant to manicure. They completely filled the attic where they dried them and it
                     stank the house up for weeks. At the end of the day they got 4.5 lbs of bud and a couple of big boxes of trim. I
                     know this doesn't compare with Danbos 3 lb per plant but this is the UK not Cal! Oh yes it was strong with a
                     good complex up high. It still didnít compare with the indoor MH or mixed light product, either for bud quality or
                     high, But it was still pretty dam good. They were all clones from the same mum and were planted out the third
                     week in May. I know the growers were different, but I bred and selected the plant and have grown it for 10 years
                     indoors! When I visited each site, I would not have recognised any as the same one I grow indoors. You certainly
                     wouldn't recognise them as being the same plant from site to site either they just looked so different in form, leaf
                     structure and colour. I know a lot of the above goes against current thinking but they are my observations!



                     TOPIC - Peacemaker
                     DATE - 07:08:44 9/19/99
                     FROM - Cleansed
                     So there is a chance that this is White shark?...I bought some peacemaker at Tweede Kamer..(they use the
                     Dampkring menu) and a friend bought some white shark at the GH and they seemed like totally different
                     strains..tho i was a little under the influence at the time....anyone else know anything....The peacemaker was the
                     one bud that i was determined to keep a bit of...simply delicious....funny how there is no info whatsoever about it
                     anywhere...it won Bio 97 right?..also....Be careful...some english seedbanks are not what they seem...you
                     canadians seem to have it more together....


                     TOPIC - I'm only a "part-timer" these days.
                     DATE - 06:08:43 9/19/99
                     FROM - Soul
                     Flick_~ Sorry to say I never got any mail from you. I've been on/off the net lately...but I DO check my mail daily.
                     Oh, I was @ "The Rally" yesterday - were you?

                     GreenBear_~ Thanks for the glassware! VERY nice.

                     Vic_~ Your comments on the mechanism for passing on UV-resistance to future generations is CORRECT, of
                     course. That's the whole POINT of why I was challenging OT1's assertion that breeding indoors (low-UV) leads to
                     decline in potency. That can only happen if the less-potent plants are being selected as the breeding stock. That
                     would happen only if these plants were mistakenly judged to be "superior" in the low-UV environment. Since
                     potency & quality of high are among the TOP criteria used in selection of breeding individuals (au moins chez
                     MOI), that seems unlikely to be the case.

                     OT1_~ Baudelaire's right, you express yourself just FINE mate ;) You stated that the environment needs to be
                     sufficient to bring out the genetic potential of the plant. Somehow, you're simultaneously insisting that the lack of
                     sufficient UV in the growing environment of parent plants causes lower-potency offspring, when it's much more
                     logical to identify that the lower UV environment ITSELF as directly affecting the individual plant - not allowing
                     complete expression of its potency potential. That genetic potential remains UNCHANGED in the parents,
                     regardless of the environment in which they were grown. Therefore these lower-potency offspring must result from
                     poor selection of parental stock. The effect is compounded of course when these offspring are then grown in
                     BTW, I got my photo of "StoneHedge" - THANKS MATE!

                     CG_~ The research you referenced suggests that UV exposure increases the EXPRESSION of resin production,
                     certainly this exposure would help to identify the plants with the most POTENTIAL for resin production. Perhaps,
                     when grown indoors, these plants no longer "stick out like sore thumbs" and the breeders mistakenly choose
                     other than the best for breeding future generations...leading to the decline in potency. The genetic potential a
                     plant may pass on to its offspring CANNOT be altered simply by UV exposure during its lifetime. If that were
                     possible, one could breed tail-less mice by cutting the tails off of the breeding pairs. Classic example, eh Vic?

                     Baudelaire_~ Your point that it wouldn't matter which strain was purchased by an Iowa farmer if OT1's assertions
                     were true mirrors my thinking as well. All the seed banks would go out of business if it worked that way...growers
                     would get essentially the SAME plant from ANY type of seed if the environmental effects were THAT dominant.


                     TOPIC - hey mg :)
                     DATE - 04:27:28 9/19/99
                     FROM - anon
                     killer plant... sounds like perfect outdoor natural growth to me... you're making me drool :)-~'


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 18:36:37 9/18/99
                     FROM - m.g.
                     hey aeric77...please drop me a line when ya get the chance. lost your addy ages ago and no way to get back in
                     touch...even your icq info is gone. installed a new HD a few months ago and lost all my old info (no worries, i
                     kept the old HD and all was done in-house and old HD's make great targets for practice plinking!).

                     btw, the cali-o is killer looking! HUGE plant (pics available) and a most unique smell of oranges...oodles of long,
                     18"+, very frosty spears and just now filling in. looking like another month before harvest. does that sound about
                     right for natural, outdoor growth?


                     TOPIC - Occam.......
                     DATE - 16:24:19 9/18/99
                     FROM - aeric77
                     ....you have mail.......
                     Vic sorry for using your board for this.........will try to limit it.......


                     TOPIC - peacemaker
                     DATE - 15:59:49 9/18/99
                     FROM - la.bud
                     according to richard at HS peacemaker is great white shark...


                     TOPIC - :)
                     DATE - 15:32:08 9/18/99
                     FROM - Cleansed
                     The commercial bud over here is awful....you have it easy:)....I remember the hawaiian was light and really
                     fruity...I wish i could remember the coffeeshop name but i just know it was in Dam Square and had an electronic
                     board with all the seed details...The bud i bought was under the grass section and they were 2 wonderful little
                     rounded lime nugs...The smell and taste were incredible....I reckon it was probably a pure sativa but back then i
                     had no idea....also there is another strain i adored but haven't found ANY info at all about on the
                     net...Peacemaker....any clues?


                     TOPIC - almost forgot
                     DATE - 15:06:26 9/18/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Chronic, almost did it again, haha. No personal experience here. But have heard good reviews on it. If you are
                     organic, I can't see a problem. maybe toss them a leaf every now and then to compliment the oatmeal diet?
                     Should make them happy worms, hehe. I keep meaning to grab some worms and add one or two to each pot,
                     but have never gotten around to it.


                     TOPIC - garden update
                     DATE - 14:49:55 9/18/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Day 18 of 12/12 with the garden of romulan, C99, G13 and the token chemo plant. This chemo plant blows me
                     away, it already has nugs bigger than some other will ever produce,haha. Already looks good enough to smoke. I
                     wish I didn't loose the males to this one. The bud lacked character anyway, haha. The other new observation is
                     with the g13, I just noticed the the cola tips (meristem tissue) have a rather dark colour to them, almost looked
                     like it was dead plant tissue at first. This is a first for me. Any g13 growers ever notice this? Romulan seems
                     happy, she's started making the pink pistals she makes when happy. And C99 are still the biggest of the lot.
                     Probably same dry weight as romulan, just more spead out, but not in a bad way, more flower sites this way,
                     hehe. It still looks like a skunk to me, but the only previous sativa experiences was skunk and peruvian sativa,
                     and she is far from looking like the per sats. Oh yeah durban, but that DP version is not a sativa, don't care what
                     they say.

                     I miss the larger garden with the 10 gal pots, now those were real plants and colas. But these 2 gals seem to be
                     getting the job done and are more suited to the single stationary 1K setup.

                     Cleansed - I haven't met a bad UK grower yet, haha. That hawaiian sample you remember .. was it more sativa or
                     indica? Federation Seeds has a hawiian sativa that Marc Emery is in love with. I looked at pics at his website
                     and it looked about as much sativa as DP's durban, but who knows. Emery does seem to have good taste.

                     Wadsworth - well my post above should tell you my experience level with 32 oz cups, haha. You'll just have to
                     tell us how it works out, haha. On the peroxide, I would hold off on that unless you have a concern about
                     overwatering. The peroxide will kill the soil microbes, thus reducing the effectivness of your organic soil mix. In
                     pots as small as yours (32oz) I don't think overwatering could become a problem if you let them dry between
                     waterings. I go by pot weight, something that won't take you long to get a feel for.

                     Yes Occam, contact Aeric. It's about what you were asking me for and I couldn't deliver.

                     CG - excellent points on other factors influencing THC production. Although important to this discussion, they
                     will be mute points to my particular situation. I just want to try and see if UV could be used for identifying the
                     most potent males in a seed growout. What is interesting is that nobody has nailed me with the obvious. You
                     know how when you first take a plant from outdoors or a greenhouse to the direct sun, it will fry unless you
                     "harden" it off first? Well this applies to most non THC producing plants, not just cannabis. These plants do
                     adapt to the direct sun and it's UV, so obviously a plant has many more mechanisms to block UV than just
                     cannabinoids. My selection pressure could easily be selecting for something other than THC production. I may
                     be just creating plants that will do really well in the desert sun, haha.

                     As for the comments about not knowing whether a clone that adapts to UV exposure will pass it's resistance to
                     it's offspring is a little confusing. A plant will pass along it's ability to adapt. Selection is where you can
                     experience the gains, not simply from exposing them. You can't take a garden, expose it to UV stress and
                     expect the next generation to be more UV tolerant. You must select the plants that handled the UV stress the
                     best and select only those as your breeding stock. Then yes, you can expect the next generation to be
                     improved. Nobody is suggesting a Lamarkian concept here, even if on the surface it may look like it, hehe. But I
                     think I'm getting your point. I may be able to improve my seedline to create more potent strains, but they may
                     only display this added potency in the presence of UV, meaning that they would lack potency under HPS still.
                     However, we will finally have the data to know for certain if I do this right.



                     TOPIC - Hawaiian?
                     DATE - 11:35:32 9/18/99
                     FROM - Cleansed
                     My first question didnt get much response but i thought i'd try anyway.....On my first trip to amsterdam a couple
                     of years back i remember trying some hawaiian that blew me away...the taste was just incredible....since then
                     my love affair with this strain has continued and i bought some skunk 1/Hawaiian sativa from Nirvana a while
                     back and got 2 females out of 5...both had huge leaves...very skunky smell and cured to a blueish colour...very
                     strange...both formed a huge main cola with little branching and potency was good but the taste that i had
                     remembered wasnt there...I'm still desperately looking for a pure hawaiian and need a seedbank that is
                     comfortable sending to London...any tips?...Thanks a bunch for any help...:)


                     TOPIC - BudM
                     DATE - 10:58:02 9/18/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     Phew!Great to hear all is well...See Ya soon;)


                     TOPIC - Occam's Razor.......
                     DATE - 07:30:56 9/18/99
                     FROM - aeric77
                     hey old friend......send an email to say hi to me at operamail.com..........I need some advice on speaking with a
                     plant or 2.....


                     TOPIC - Romberry
                     DATE - 19:13:00 9/17/99
                     FROM - Wadsworth
                     I have some romberry seeds from H.S. that I
                     just started sprouting. 4 out of 5 that I tried
                     germinated. 1 got fuzzy and died. Next I'm
                     trying the blueberry seeds . All of these are
                     BCGA seeds. I also sprouted 5 out of 6 Purple
                     Passion seeds. These are Dutch Passion. These
                     will be grown in a homemade organic soil mix that
                     has a little of everything organic. I'm also putting
                     superthrive & peroxide in the water. Any comments
                     would be appreciated.

                     I do have two questions 1) About how big will Blueberry
                     and Romberry get under 400w if planted in a 32oz cup?
                     2) I have an Eco-Technics light. Does anyone know naything
                     about this brand? The lamp housing is a large glass tube
                     about 6" in dia.

                     keep smokin'
                     Wadsworth ;^0-~



                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 18:58:07 9/17/99
                     FROM - Budm
                     Hi All,

                     Vic- Im real sorry for my absebce, my puter failer was only the start of a very painfull week, a loved one has a life
                     ending desease, and its hit my entire family hard. I posted a explaination at "overgrow", and lashed out at NL420
                     for "assuming" things past his comprehension. Thanks for the support Vic. Im at a copy center using there
                     computer, so Ill be short. I hope to repair my computer after Ireturn from Miami, next month, untill then take care
                     and stay safe;-))

                     OT1- You have snail mail...



                     TOPIC - Live worms...
                     DATE - 16:33:00 9/17/99
                     FROM - chronic man
                     Has anyone tried using live worms in 5 gallon buckets? I would think that they would add plenty of worm castings
                     on a continuous basis. I've heard that if you add a little oatmeal every once in a while, that they will eat that. I've
                     also heard that they don't like chemical ferts, PH swings, etc., but I'm using organic soil, so I would think it
                     would be OK. Maybe the worm castings that you buy at nurseries have been sitting for a while, so they are more
                     useful to growing plants. I'm not sure about that one, but I think I heard somewhere that they do need to age for a
                     while. Just wondering....
                     cHrOnIc man



                     TOPIC - Here's the Scoop ...
                     DATE - 15:47:42 9/17/99
                     FROM - Curious George
                     OK folks ... even though I'm in the process of requesting re-print rights to this old study for my forthcoming
                     grow-book, I'll drop a nug that relates to the UV debate.

                     The study in question was done about 30 years ago in the Midwestern US. The researchers tested samples of
                     wild ditch-weed and also measured the constituents of the soil, the slope of the ground, and other factors that
                     didn't involve weather.

                     Even without detailed genetic testing, which was unavailable at the time, we can safely assume that the ditch
                     weed they tested was of a stabilized, homogenous population. The results were quite interesting in that there
                     was a great deal of variation in the levels of THC found in seperate patches of wild hemp, and it seemed to show
                     that particular soil and slope factors were responsible for these increased levels.

                     Given these results, it's a good bet that increased UV would probably increase the amount of THC in a given
                     plant, but there's no way to know for sure just how much or whether it would pass on the trait to future
                     generations if allowed to seed.

                     I got a chuckle out of Ed Rosenthals column a few months ago when he was unable to answer a question and
                     professed ignorance of Any study having been done on the relationship between soil constituents and THC.

                     More on this later ...


                     TOPIC - Vic
                     DATE - 13:56:04 9/17/99
                     FROM - Mota
                     Did you get my e-mail?




                     TOPIC - Dutch Genetics....
                     DATE - 10:36:36 9/17/99
                     FROM - Cleansed
                     Howdy....First i'd like to say this is one hell of a board....also there seem to be some english growers on
                     here....This is a surprise to me as we are still generally fairly backwards over here when it comes to growing...i
                     was just wondering about the opinions you guys have of some of the top dutch companies,specifically the
                     greenhouse seed company,sensi seeds and dutch passion....The greenhouse especially seems to win
                     everything at the C.Cup yet i heard that many B.C strains are far better as far as potency and general vigour are
                     concerned...any advice is appreciated...many thanks..:)


                     TOPIC - Breeder Steve's new projects
                     DATE - 09:33:38 9/17/99
                     FROM - Baudelaire
                     Lothar- Re: Breeder Steve

                     I don't think I'm giving anything away here, but Marc Emery is telling folks that Breeder Steve is working in
                     Switzerland with Ed Rosenthal and Alan Dronkers at Sensi's breeding facility there. Sounds like a great
                     combination to me.



                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 07:39:20 9/17/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Sorry, just doing a quick cruise through this AM, bit, pink Floyd, how about a detailed writeup on those ESB
                     beans? I think yours will be the first, and we need one for that batch. Yes they will become available as soon as
                     I get off my ass and put the description together. Actually, I've been dragging my ass trying to give california time
                     to get us the info we all want. Not really sure what to do if they don't come through, it never occured to me that
                     they didn't really need or want our help. I'll be making a more detailed post on this in a day or two at OverGrow's
                     special projects page. But in the meantime, a grow report on the ESB would be cool and a big help. Thanks.

                     I got to add this at the top of the page:

                     Wondering - it's not cool to get strain advice here, best to try the seedbanks page at cann.com or at Emery's
                     site. I think the sharketank at Overgrow could handle your request as well. Most everybody here also visits at
                     least one of those other sites, so it's not like you will be missing any opinions, hehe.


                     TOPIC - Help me out
                     DATE - 23:29:17 9/16/99
                     FROM - Wondering
                     I know this is off topic but I need some help. Im planning on buying some seeds and growing them indoors. Next
                     spring Im going to plant clones outdoors and need strains that mature early, at the latest sept 14th. Thanks in
                     BTW you have a really informative board.



                     TOPIC - A-1 seed auction
                     DATE - 22:35:51 9/16/99
                     FROM - pi____nk FLOYD
                     if any has a chance to get ot1's esb from the seed auction... get them. great up hi and a very nice sour sweet
                     lemon taste. only prob i had was low f to m ratio


                     TOPIC - mooch
                     DATE - 22:33:03 9/16/99
                     FROM - pi____nk FLOYD
                     just grew out 6 white rhino seeds

                     got 3 girls

                     not impressed yet with the hi or the taste but it was my first time. tried 63 days and 70 day harvest with not
                     much diff in results. a good hi and a sweet taste but i have better yielders and better tasters with a better hi than
                     white rhino sooooooooooooo ... we will seeeeee.

                     colas were huge. one weighed almost half pound wet and was about 18" long but it was all water weight and
                     shrunk to maybe a z and a quarter dry. have just added super grow wings and a lite rail and will try it again


                     TOPIC - curious george
                     DATE - 21:54:00 9/16/99
                     FROM - pi____nk floyd
                     when i tried to use ms word to paste and cut things for other sites or for my own use while using a ms word doc i
                     always got funny looking squiggles. changing fonts did not help.

                     now that i am a puter nerd NOT i have figured out my problem and this may help you. seems like some pages or
                     script add invisible modifiers to the beginning and end of a post but not sure why. some sort of java or other
                     code???????? anyhoo ...

                     i recently tried using a copy/past/cut/ms word again and got squiggles AGAIN. this time i tried the middle of a
                     post and got no squiggles. include the end of a post and squiggles. include the begining of a post and squiggles.

                     so now when i want to cut/copy/paste from these pages using a word processor as an intermediary formator i
                     leave off the first and last word of the post and have had no more problems.

                     there maybe a ms word or browser setting to change or something in the script that can fix this easier but for
                     now i know that this works for me . hope this helps


                     TOPIC - vic-lothar
                     DATE - 21:12:25 9/16/99
                     FROM - jay
                     havent seen you guys in ages a beer sounds good what do yall think..?lothar still on icq?


                     TOPIC - UV, evolution, world peace, & the meaning of life
                     DATE - 16:56:31 9/16/99
                     FROM - Baudelaire
                     Okay, here goes. Let us know when this gets out of hand, Vic, and we can take somewhere else. I for one am
                     thrilled to be in the company of such adventurous minds. Hats off to all the contributers here. OT1, much respect
                     to you, my reply is meant to honor your well considered thoughts, not belittle them. I have no doubt your
                     observations are accurate, in that they are true to your experience. I simply offer my alternative experiences and
                     a possible explanation for the phenomena that IMO is more plausible and based on widely accepted evolutionary
                     concepts. Let me respond point-by-point to your post:

                     ".... cannabis of a known potent strain from the same batch of seed, will when grown in southern, middle and
                     northern USA show three different growth profiles with some varieties they don't even look like the same type in
                     the north compared to southern grown. The thc produced high in the south low in the north and the cbd the
                     reverse. There are numerous American university studies with the stats to back this up using gas
                     chromatography graphs."

                     I am not aware of these studies, and would bow to their findings over my personal observations. However, I have
                     observed both native and cultivated cannabis grown outdoors in the Northeastern, the Midwest and Western
                     regions of the U.S. and have not observed growth profiles varying significantly by region, and certainly not varying
                     within the same strain in different regions. Mexican sativa, in my experience, looks the same whether grown in
                     Southern California, Iowa or upper New York state. Same with skunk, same with Indica-dominant strains. In fact,
                     I've witnessed a hash plant indica grown next to a mexican sativa, in the same soil and light, outside in
                     California. None of the environmental melding of phenotypes you describe took place- the hash plant grew 3.5
                     feet tall, had fat indica leaves, matured in late September, and grew thick 'baseball bat' buds that stunk up the
                     neighborhood. Six feet away a Mexi sativa grew 8 feet tall with thin fingered leaves, wispy little buds with little or
                     no smell, and still hadn't begun browning pistils when chopped in early December. I have observed similar results
                     with 'domestic' indica hybrids grown in the vicinity of native hemp in the Midwest- the indicas grew, looked, and
                     smoked like indicas, and the hemp grew, looked, and smoked (cough) like ditchweed sativa.

                     "There is no doubt that cannabis can alter its growth pattern and type of resin production during its first year of
                     being grown in an environment. This has little to do with uv as such, but the ability to adapt to new new
                     environments rapidly."

                     I don't want to be mistaken here- I believe that cannabis IS extremely adaptable and variable. I believe that the
                     core varieties of sativa, indica and ruderalis are simply geographically adapted variations of the same species.
                     However, my experience leads me to believe that those adaptations are more or less fixed within a timeframe of
                     say, for the sake of argument, 100 generations or more. When I grow a hash plant in the Western U.S., and my
                     buddy in New England grows out the seeds from the same parents, we both get more or less the same product.
                     Any differences in potency or growth profiles can usually be easily attributed to immediate environmental
                     differences, i.e., amount of direct light, rainfall, length of growing season, etc.

                     "Regardless of seed origin, several generations in a new location will produce a plant resembling those native to
                     the area where it is being grown. This fact has been known for centuries. In 1712, Kaempfer observed that seeds
                     of Persian Cannabis failed to produce significant quantities of intoxicating resin when grown in Europe for several
                     generations. Similarly, in the early nineteenth century, the Egyptian Viceroy, Mehemet Ali, found that the French
                     hemp seeds he imported to provide fibre for rope were useless for that purpose. After a few growing seasons the
                     plants became short and bushy, producing large quantities of resin."

                     Here you are citing Starks, I believe? If this phenomenon is true, and I am skeptical, then it is easily attributable
                     to acclimatization through natural selection and cross-pollination with native species. Since Starks cites only
                     ancient, non-scientific observations of cannabis grown in presumably open-pollinated populations in locales with
                     established native hemp populations, the phenomena observed could have been the result of the new
                     environments selecting out genotypes poorly suited for the locales over generations. Logically that natural
                     selection would favor a genotype similar to the established native variety. The existence of wind-blown pollen from
                     adjacent wild populations would greatly hasten this process by cross-breeding with the introduced strain.

                     "In a report published in 1912, pioneer marijuana researcher, J. Bouquet, described the nature of the change that
                     can occur in only a single generation. [Example snipped.]"

                     Again, I have personally observed the exact opposite of Mssr. Bouquet, both with different strains grown
                     side-by-side in the same locale, and with the same generation of the same strain grown the same year in very
                     different locales. Frankly, this is the kind of anecdotal observations that have made me very wary of much
                     published MJ literature, even the so-called academic books. Little science, even less peer review.

                     "...the plant wonít express its potential grown in the wrong environment."

                     I agree with this completely. However let's not confuse lack of expression with genetic mutation or 'drift'. I will
                     never be able to grow potent Colombian Gold in Woodstock, New York. But that is not to say my Colombo
                     seeds will transform themselves into squat indicas. They will grow into the same 12 foot sativas they would in
                     Santa Marta. But along come late October they will freeze and die halfway into flowering, without reaching full
                     potency. Purely environmental. If I try to breed my Woodstock Colombo, I will naturally only be able to produce
                     seeds from those few individuals in my breeding population whose maturation time is shorter than the average for
                     Colombo, because New York's early winters won't allow average or long maturing individuals to produce viable
                     seed outdoors. Maybe I'll get lucky and produce a 50-day maturing Colombo sativa with a soaring cerebral high.
                     More likely, I'll find my early Colombo is not potent, because it is likely that equatorial sativas produce THC resin
                     at a much slower rate, and 50 days isn't enough to produce the concentration of THC I desire.

                     "~High Times~ wrote about the first crops off, they were disappointed comments like low down boring stone,
                     narcotic rather
                     than high."

                     After a decade or so of seeing one High Times grow fantasy after another paraded as 'technique' I tend to believe
                     that if its in HT it must NOT be true. Remember the article last summer that proposed cutting light periods to 6
                     hours to speed maturation? Unadulterated garbage advise. If cutting light periods in half speeds maturation, what
                     does cutting it by 75% do? What about by 90%? 99%? You can see where this nonsense takes you.

                     "All these things agree with my own observations we live 51 degrees north and I have tried to keep potency and
                     quality of the high my main priority, ok Iím not good at expressing myself when writing, I have no wish to offend
                     but I think you are not
                     seeing what I am trying to say! There are differences in the amount of environmental adaptability of cannabis
                     types, type 1, Equatorial sativaís being the least and Hybrids between type1 and 2 [indica] the most when grown
                     from seed in an alien environment. Without going into cannabisís adaptability even as a clone to different
                     environments, I don't think we can get to the nub of uvís part in the whole."

                     I too wish not to offend, but must disagree that you are not good at expressing yourself in writing. Your English is
                     pretty good for a Brit ;-). Seriously though, here we get to the heart of the matter, I believe, when you reference a
                     clone's adaptability to different environments. Are you saying that you have observed clones from the same
                     individual grow out as both sativa and indica phenotypes when grown in different environments? This I simply
                     cannot reconcile with my two decades of grow experiences in three distinct regions of the U.S. Nor does it
                     square with the experiences of hundreds of growers throughout North America who regularly grow out
                     commercially produced Dutch strains outdoors. If your suppositions are correct, it would not matter what strain a
                     grower in Omaha used- the end product would be the same "naturalized" phenotype every harvest. And since the
                     Omaha area is home to native populations of hemp, all cultivated MJ grown in Omaha would be low-potency
                     hemp. I believe our cornhusker guerilla growers would beg to differ with that assumption!

                     To sum up, I think we are essentially revisiting the nature-vs.-nurture argument here, cannabis-wise. You seem to
                     believe environment is the predominant determinant of cannabis' phenotypical expression. I believe phenotypical
                     expression is far more fixed by genotype, and that cannabis's three main phenotypes have distinct genotype
                     analogues. I believe that cannabis is one species midway through the several-thousand-year process of
                     differentiating into three distinct (non-interbreeding) species. Hence both its apparent high
                     adaptability/interbreedibility AND relatively fixed phenotypical distinctions. I now yield and eagerly await your
                     considered response.



                     TOPIC - TSM&Avid
                     DATE - 14:48:17 9/16/99
                     FROM - mooch
                     Thanks cHrOnIc man for the Avid info. will try.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 13:55:46 9/16/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     oops, sorry cedartop, check out the UV page off of the main page


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 13:53:58 9/16/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     CG - ya got me there, I use netscape and have never had a problem cutting and pasted. This is what I do to
                     create the archives. Also, unlike every other bcga webpage, this one isn't created with netscape composer. It
                     was created generically with a text editor to make sure all browsers would treat it the same, and I edit it with a
                     text editor.

                     If I had access to GLC, I would be right on top of doing a side by side comparison of using UV on a few different
                     strains. But right now, my analysis of the results would be subjective and open to debate, so a waste of time
                     IMO. Anyone know an accurate way to quanify THC and other cannbinoids where the equipment will cost less
                     than 5K? 10K? That range is about my limit, and exposing myself by getting others to do the tests for me isn't
                     too appealing. Maybe I'll have to take a spectrometry course or two to establish some connections, hehe.


                     TOPIC - Up and Down the Long & Winding Road
                     DATE - 12:37:40 9/16/99
                     FROM - Curious George
                     Oldtimer, you're probably right about the Northern Indian weed being different from the Southern ... it is, after all,
                     a huge country with many variations in altitude and lattitude. As for the plants that we generally regard as Indica
                     or Afgani originating in Turkistan, that's news to me. Interesting piece of history if it's accurate ... the trading
                     routes through that area have been happening since before Marco Polo. But if the plants that originated
                     elsewhere were grown for the hash market, did their place of origin have the same approximate altitude and
                     lattitude? Is the way we know them today the same as they were back then? Did they adapt to the new

                     I'd prefer to have "up", "energizing", "cerebral" or "creative" results when inbibing the herb, but it might not be
                     neccessary to go to a Sativa dominant strain to get these results. In the past, I found that picking buds while the
                     pistils are still white and full yields a clear, creative, buzz, even if the plant in question is a "hash plant". The
                     yield is certainly lower, but the constituent chemicals are of the sky, and not of the couch. ( Which is not to say
                     that I don't enjoy being occasionally bludgeoned with Indica.)

                     At any rate, what we need to find out, through rigorous testing, is whether added UV will improve the "goodie"
                     yield of a given set of clones. This should be relatively easy compared to the question of its' effect on breeding ...
                     and I'll leave that one to others for now.

                     By the way Vic, my computer is unable to copy and paste any of the messages on the board as I can with other
                     stuff on the web. Is that built into the site or is it just me? I'd like to share some of the breeding/UV posts with a
                     botanist friend who I'm sure doesn't have the time or inclination to pull the site up himself. Needless to say, I'll
                     pump him for info at the next opportunity.

                     Who's buried in Grant's Tomb?

                     Just Curious.



                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 11:41:24 9/16/99
                     FROM - Lothar
                     This weekend is good 4 me



                     TOPIC - uv one more question
                     DATE - 09:12:24 9/16/99
                     FROM - cedartop
                     have been doing some reading on uv lamps and one thing i noticed it that there are many different wavelengths.
                     so if a person did want to use one and hope to see some possible benefit from them how would he make the
                     right choice in choosing the bulb. i had no idea that uv is used in so many different applications. just wondering
                     i'm sure some of you have already thought on this and figured it out.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 07:27:57 9/16/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     CG & OT - keep it coming baby!!

                     Lothar, will be in Van this weekend, picking up supplies on Monday. Call you?


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 02:54:07 9/16/99
                     FROM - oldtimer1
                     CG I just saw your bit further down sorry i missed it before. I think there is no doubt that all that the most potent
                     varieties of cannabis, psycoactivly speaking come from high altitude areas 30 degrees or closer to the equator.
                     They all tend to have have the appearance and form of what we would call a sativa type. The tricomes tend to be
                     small and very close unlike todays hybrid vars. The the highs of these vars are generally very up and energising
                     when grown in their natural environment. The effect of this does not turn you into a drooling idiot but is
                     stimulating, provoking laughter, conversation and a general feeling of wellbeing. Sorry if my writing is a bit thick
                     Iím not very good at it, being dyslexic I never learned to write with a pen as such!

                     India has a huge variation in plant types, the best grass comes from the south. Kerala being one, it is grown on
                     steep hill/mountain slopes. The photos in early dope books generally show pictures of the hemp harvest in
                     lowland fields calling it the cannabis harvest. Take a look in R C Clarke book on hash you will get some real
                     pictures to delight your eyes. The best hash made in northern India and in fact through out the Himalayas is from
                     a sativa looking plant native throughout the range. It grows wild just below the snow line and was used to make
                     real Manali, Butan spice, Nep Temple balls/finger hash and Afghan pucks, it is a very high in thc and thcv. The
                     type 2 plant we call indica is not thought to be native to the area at all, but imported to meet the demand for hash
                     by the west at the beginning of the century probably from further north in Turkestan. This was for the large
                     amounts of resin produced rather that the quality of the high.
                     Vic Iím not sure if this subject is right for this page please say if not and call time. Ot1



                     TOPIC - KQ vic & J
                     DATE - 00:45:47 9/16/99
                     FROM - Lothar
                     Have to give you quick answer as time permits
                     Grapefruit was the mom of them all
                     crossed with something to become Sweet pink GF
                     So Sweet Pink GF became the Mom for Many after that
                     I got my GF from Breeder Steve quite a few years ago now and from what he said to me is he thinks I am the
                     only holder of th true GF left (that would be cool) but I pass it off quite often
                     A word about Steve if any one cares he has departed the area for "greener houses" in europe don't know if his
                     where abouts is secret so the location I will keep to myself for now BUT let it be known he is working on
                     genetics and has huge resorces at his disposal Look for good things to come from this, hes at his dream job....I
                     will miss him ..
                     Love to hook up any time your in my area and FYI found a grow shop sells plenty of stuff includeing a full line of
                     "Fox Farms" shtuff you gotta check it out. Fraser and 46ish
                     Dude whats up man glad to see you lurken around



                     TOPIC - Spider mites
                     DATE - 21:44:20 9/15/99
                     FROM - chronic man
                     Mooch- When you get tired of using predators and other methods of spider mite control, try Avid. This stuff
                     completely kills spider mites. I too tried using other methods, but I always just controlled them. So when I saw
                     how well the Avid worked, I was happy to see the little buggers go. Avid is not as deadly as it was first thought to
                     be by some. Vic here has even resorted to using it, and hes Mr organic from what I can tell.
                     Just a suggestion...
                     cHrOnIc man


                     TOPIC - UV - trichomes - THC - some random thoughts ..
                     DATE - 20:54:33 9/15/99
                     FROM - Curious George
                     Hey folks, the quality of the discourse here has been outstanding! Keep it up. Even if some of it gets a little
                     thick, it's still interesting.

                     Something about the stories of plants going from tall skinny hemp to short gooey drug bushes when grown in a
                     higher UV enviornment just didn't sound right. I recall seeing photos of cannabis harvest in India, and the plants
                     looked like Hemp ... tall and thin, not short and squat. There's no telling what kind of potency the actual plant
                     material has, since the women rub it on their hands to make "Charis" hash with the accumulated trichomes.
                     Perhaps these strains were selected for Both THC and hemp production ... ?

                     As I've probably mentioned before, the sight of trichomes themselves doesn't indicate anything in terms of
                     potency. Any species of weed seems to produce them if it can't grow seed. So, if THC is supposed to protect
                     seeds, why is there more of it in plants that have No seeds? I suspect that the trichomes serve several functions
                     in the plants metabolism, and the chemical content of the trichomes varies with an overlapping set of genetic

                     Do all plants that have high THC when grown seedless have proportionally higher levels than controls when
                     allowed to seed? Do plants that display a frosty look when grown seeded have proportionaly higher amounts
                     when grown seedless?

                     Are breeders selecting for production of trichomes or production of particular combinations of THC/CBN/CBD?
                     Does a huge amount of visible "goodie" always produce the most potent stuff?

                     Just Curious



                     TOPIC - Vic,jus sticken up fer one of my ol'phrends
                     DATE - 20:51:27 9/15/99
                     FROM - "more important"

                     hope he finds this place kinda! Ha!
                     L8R from Cali!


                     TOPIC - hydro and organics
                     DATE - 16:25:14 9/15/99
                     FROM - beanhead
                     Hello BC growers,
                     I was told I might find some info. on using organics in
                     my aquafarm gardens. I have been thinking about using
                     worm casting teas.

                     I put a fairly decent post up at overgrow.com, if anyone
                     wants to check out the specifics.

                     Vic offered a good tip, I would really appreciate a little
                     help on this, as it might be the best way to grow in a
                     3x3x7 closet, which I notice seems to be a popular size to
                     grow when using a 400hps.

                     I think this is a nice board, I lurk here alot, but have
                     never posted. I guess the time is now. Happy growing and
                     be careful.



                     TOPIC - Any info would be nice
                     DATE - 14:13:10 9/15/99
                     FROM - mooch
                     Hello all..Ive been growing (indoor and out) for about 20 years and have my own genetic combo I call 'Bob' it is a
                     combination of all the top smoke I have come into contact with in B.C. since 1967, interbred over the years with
                     'Big bud' as a stabiliser..it is a very nice BIG delta 9 bud ..no complaints..no hemmies.
                     But I have been battling TSMites for about 2 years, and I was wondering if anyone has used SM-90?..I would
                     appreciate any feedback regarding this stuffs, toxicity, application strength etc. I have in the past introduced
                     'Persimilus' as a predater with mixed results..but they just dont quite get the job done..Also recently, I have
                     started a set of clones from a female 'White Rhino' seed I was given..they are very healthy and all doing well in
                     cut and drilled 2 litre pop pots (pre transplanting) but, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this
                     breed and could give me any tips regarding the strain. Thanks guys...great info page......m


                     TOPIC - YO SOUL!!
                     DATE - 12:18:06 9/15/99
                     FROM - flick
                     Been waiting for a reply from you for some time, what's up?
                     It was an important letter are you going to reply, did you get it?

                     Please let this stay up a little while if you can Vic. Thanks.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 10:58:54 9/15/99
                     FROM - oldtimer1
                     Danbo that sounds about right to me! A fairly pure sat grown above 30 deg, as a guess its grown at 2000 ft or
                     less ? Second guess originally it had a lighter and higher stone?


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 09:54:50 9/15/99
                     FROM - greenbear
                     Hey Peaceness --mail call!


                     TOPIC - Vic! LOL
                     DATE - 06:47:10 9/15/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     Yes sir...I'll do a canuck edition to eh? I remember My 1st trip to the great white northat the age of 12. I walked
                     down the campground roud to try and hang w/ a group of older kids to party. I was from the deeper south then
                     and everytime they ended a sentence w/ "eh". I just knew they where asking Me a Q, not making a statment!
                     ROFLMAO Thankfully the McKenzy Bros. straitened all that out for Us Amerikans;)


                     TOPIC - potency vs enviroment
                     DATE - 06:44:41 9/15/99
                     FROM - Danbo
                     Year ago , just when we started to grow other than sativas
                     in Cali, we used to judge seeds on how many generations
                     it had been bred in it's current enviroment. The higher the generation, the more acclimated it was to your area.
                     Hence the better the smoke. some of the Holyweed I grow is in it's 15th generation and will still grow plants over
                     3 lbs
                     and is so narcotic in stone , you better not get off the couch. This goes against all conventional thought in these
                     matters but after 27 years experence , I know this to be fact. At least with the HW strain.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 03:10:37 9/15/99
                     FROM - oldtimer1
                     Hi Baudelaire nice to meet you, our Admiralty cockups were from memory, school history lessons and a long
                     time ago at that haha. There are several things here firstly cannabis of a known potent strain from the same
                     batch of seed, will when grown in southern, middle and northern USA show three different growth profiles with
                     some varieties they don't even look like the same type in the north compared to southern grown. The thc
                     produced high in the south low in the north and the cbd the reverse. There are numerous American university
                     studies with the stats to back this up using gas chromatography graphs. There is no doubt that cannabis can
                     alter its growth pattern and type of resin production during its first year of being grown in an environment. This
                     has little to do with uv as such, but the ability to adapt to new new environments rapidly. This has been written
                     about countless times in the past here is a reference to what I mean, scanned from MJ chemistry =======>

                     Heredity and Environment

                     Regardless of seed origin, several generations in a new location will produce a plant resembling those native to
                     the area where it is being grown. This fact has been known for centuries. In 1712, Kaempfer observed that seeds
                     of Persian Cannabis failed to produce significant quantities of intoxicating resin when grown in Europe for several
                     generations. Similarly, in the early nineteenth century, the Egyptian Viceroy, Mehemet Ali, found that the French
                     hemp seeds he imported to provide fibre for rope were useless for that purpose. After a few growing seasons the
                     plants became short and bushy, producing large quantities of resin. (Part of the explanation undoubtedly lies in
                     the shorter days of Egypt.) In that same century, Christison at Edinburgh, Hope in England and Husson in Cairo
                     observed the same phenomenon when they planted imported seeds. In a report published in 1912, pioneer
                     marijuana researcher, J. Bouquet, described the nature of the change that can occur in only a single generation.
                     He said that seeds from India (Guaza) and Greece (Tripolis) planted at Lyon in France produced plants about two
                     meters tall. They were robust and bushy with many branches and large, deep-green leaves with sharply indented
                     edges and (in the Indian variety) distinct furrows on the upper surface of the petioles (leaf stems). The petioles of
                     the Indian variety were reddish-brown but lost their colour with age. The flowers were concentrated in clusters of
                     cymes (main and secondary branches always terminate in a single flower) and the groups of clusters were
                     separated from one another by leaves and well-developed bracts nearly hid the flowers from view. (Bracts are
                     modified leaves which surround and protect the flowers and, later, the seeds.) The large, vigorous flowers gave off
                     an intense mint-like odour which was perceptible more than two meters away. At maturity, the flowering tops
                     were covered with shiny points which were tiny reddish droplets of resin in the glandular hairs. When the seeds
                     from the above plants were grown the next year at Moulin-sur-Allier, the plants were little different from those
                     commonly cultivated in France for fibre. They were only slightly bushier, and of a somewhat deeper green than
                     the native fibre plants, but did not have the bushy flowering tops or the furrowed, coloured petioles and resin
                     production of their ancestors. The tops were not even sticky. But seeds from the same batch were planted the
                     same year at Beja in Tunisia (altitude: 330 meters). The resulting plants were very similar to the first generation
                     Indian and Greek plants grown at Lyon, with their bushy odiferous flowers and intense resin production.

                     Soul I think you can be a dam good breeder but the plant wonít express its potential grown in the wrong
                     environment. The demand for high quality sativa puff after the Nam war outstripped supply so seed from high
                     demand varieties like Punta Roja, Columbia golds and reds were planted on a big scale on the lowland
                     Colombian coastal plains. ~High Times~ wrote about the first crops off, they were disappointed comments like
                     low down boring stone, narcotic rather than high. The same thing happened in Thailand and Cambodia to meet
                     the USAís demand for quantities the natural habitats couldn't supply. All these things agree with my own
                     observations we live 51 degrees north and I have tried to keep potency and quality of the high my main priority,
                     ok Iím not good at expressing myself when writing, I have no wish to offend but I think you are not seeing what I
                     am trying to say! There are differences in the amount of environmental adaptability of cannabis types, type 1,
                     Equatorial sativaís being the least and Hybrids between type1 and 2 [indica] the most when grown from seed in
                     an alien environment. Without going into cannabisís adaptability even as a clone to different environments, I don't
                     think we can get to the nub of uvís part in the whole. Finally fibre hemp vars are grown in India, china etc but
                     mostly in low lying fertile flood planes. The fibre produced is inferior to northern European/Russian and very low

                     All the best Ot1

                     By the by Soul I sent a mutual friend a letter about this subject do you know if he got it?


                     TOPIC - nexus
                     DATE - 00:34:16 9/15/99
                     FROM - irish
                     you would probably want about 24" to 30" between the 1000 and your screen, since you have it on a mover. but
                     be ready to raise it higher, just in case it gets too hot.

                     i think the scroggers keep the screen eight to ten inches above the tops of the pots or media ( i.e.: hydro

                     so six inches of pots, another eight inches for the screen, and twenty four inches to the light...damn close, ...but
                     sounds reasonable


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 21:56:48 9/14/99
                     FROM - KQ
                     Lothar, you may remember me from hbc days and WB days. I wanna ask you about your grapefruit, is that
                     related to Steve the breeders sweet pink and/or Mikado? Very curious!!


                     TOPIC - Question on Scroging?
                     DATE - 21:29:22 9/14/99
                     FROM - nexus
                     I have some mr.nice (g13xhashplant) growing right now, its about 3 weeks old and i decided to scrog her but i
                     dont know how high to put the screen? my room height is 4 1/2 feet with 1000watt hps+light rail III , and my
                     buckets at 6 inchs hight and i figure if i grew them bush style i could grow them about 2 1/2 to 3 feet high, so
                     how far from the buckets should I put the screen to scrog it? (flat screen)


                     TOPIC - MOTA!!
                     DATE - 21:01:50 9/14/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Hey Mota!! If you are surfing these waters, can you email me? bcga@mauimail.com

                     Blazer, I will be interested in that documentation, can you write it in Canuck as well?

                     I hope you people in the south east aren't taking up any wind surfing these days. Best Wishes.


                     TOPIC - Vic, Soul, B420, OT1, X10 Automation
                     DATE - 19:41:11 9/14/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     Good lord Gent's... Just when I think I've considered most enviromental scenario's for speciffic strains and tried to
                     attempt a duplication of said enviroment, YOU GENTS turn My brains into scrambled eggs. I know on My scale
                     of growing, hardly any of it's applicapable, but in My mind the scenario's run amuck all night after reading these
                     great thoughts/posts and theories. WOW...You know I hate it when people talk about things I don't understand
                     enough to chime in on, but You men continue to enlighten Me constantly. It's a love/hate type thing...The worst
                     part of it all is Soul gets great enjoyment out of turning My brain to mush like this untill I get it!AARRGGHH I'll
                     get My shot somehow;). Anyhow, You Guys are amazingly observant and dedicated to all this and more. Thanks
                     for sharing it w/ Me.
                     Keep it coming!
                     ALL I'm on the verge of creating a means of monitoring every single aspect of the grow via the computer and
                     various X10 like products. When I wish to check on the gals, click and I'll have video,ph,ec,Humidity, temp., res.
                     temp. and so on.
                     The coolest part IMO is the ability of the program to page or call Me w/ pre-recorded messages alarming Me of
                     amy event thats out of the normal.ie. Blown breaker or if I flood the basement again etc.. I know alot of You will
                     say this will lessen the quality time You enjoy in Your garden. I'm not totally lazy, I'm a parapledgic that gets
                     damn sick of the stairs sometimes or don't have the time to tend to something at the moment. Plus I will have
                     logs of ph,ec flucuations etc. automatically making documentation effortless almost. I plan on doing a write up on
                     this venture, technical style. Something We all can follow and see how it pans out. I'm damn excited and it's in
                     the works. Luckily sb can make the hard to find modules so I'm set. Damn I just realized 1 could do a live vidoe
                     stream of a grow operation online, day by day. Maybe to crazy, but sure sounds cool IMO.
                     Well time to put My poor melon to rest...You guys wear Me out! LOL


                     TOPIC - UV and potency
                     DATE - 18:41:22 9/14/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Ahh hell, might as well blow off the afternoon, haha.

                     Gents, a tip of the glass in your directions :)

                     It's hard for me to proceed without making the assumption that potency is a multigenic trait. I think this is a safe
                     assumption since there are various degrees of potency and no one has been able to apply mendelian ratios to
                     the trait. Now lets take this a step further and assume that some of these genes are triggered by UV and others
                     not. Some may be triggered by tissue damage like that from a herbivore or insect. And then some without a
                     trigger, just that the healthier the plant is, the more the gene can be expressed. This could explain why some
                     plants become more potent when exposed to UV, while others retain potency in the absence of UV.
                     Observations of both scenarios are well documented.

                     OK, so with that in mind, a breeder can only select for/or against those genes being expressed. No expression =
                     no selection pressure. Therefore, the argument "But the indoor breeders are SELECTING for high THC, so
                     despite the low-UV environment, natural selection of low-THC individuals isn't taking place, thus it can't be
                     causing the degradation." isn't entirely applicable, IMO. The breeder can only select for what his environment
                     allows. Besides, many breeders don't make potency their primary concern, they also consider yield, flavour,
                     vigour, hermie expression, ease of growth patterns, flowering speed, early flower initiation with the outdoor
                     breeders, etc. Hell, I remember early conversations with a breeder here that said he selected males for their
                     vigour and early flowering in his projects. In reality, I'm quite the same, the strong ones stand out. In all reality, I
                     don't think it's too uncommon for a more potent plant to be passed over due other undesireable traits. Like when I
                     picked the parents from my original blueberry line. People don't buy blueberry for it's potency and I didn't select
                     for it. I have however given it some weight on future generations where my population size allowed it.

                     Well gotta cut this off here, have an appointment. Will continue later :)


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 16:27:28 9/14/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Cool genetics discussion! Can't wait to get home from work and jump in, hope I have the energy. But in the

                     Soul and Ray - I appreciate the discretion, definately in a big grey area, hehe. However, I have no problems with
                     talking grow info about ANY strains out there. It's like I will give advice on some growing specifics of some of the
                     bcga stuff. I just try to avoid anything that sounds like a sales job, haha. Ohh, and redirect the newbie questions,
                     hehe. Soul, feel free to correct me, but Ray, I think your question is more generic than being strain specific.
                     Many things can cause pistals to die and therefore are a poor methods of determining ripeness. I just use them
                     as a clue to start paying attention. Trichome and calyx condition is a far better method, IMO. There is much info
                     out there on this, but wait until some of the trichomes start turning cloudy and the calyxes swell to the point of
                     looking like they may contain seeds. They don't all do it at once, and most strains will have about a two week
                     window where harvest could occur, but I imagine Soul's experience could help you determine which end of the
                     two weeks is best for that particular strain, hehe.

                     Fred, best to take generic grow questions to cann.com, or overgrow.com, or emery's page (sorry forgot URL). If
                     you have a specific question....

                     Deleted anon troll "come on" - it wasn't your call to make. As an anon, you don't have the right to critisize here
                     without being deleted. Sorry.

                     Soul, just got word from Ae, :( can't make them all happy, can only worry about what make you happy.


                     TOPIC - Just to be CLEAR
                     DATE - 06:56:14 9/14/99
                     FROM - Soul
                     RayDavies_~ Any BG client with questions should simply write emails to BG and they'll answer in DETAIL...this
                     is not the right place.


                     TOPIC - You "play" nicely Baudelaire!
                     DATE - 06:52:18 9/14/99
                     FROM - Soul
                     RayDavies_~ Sorry pal, no seedbank stuff here. Respect Vic's rules. :)

                     Baudelaire_~ I think you nailed it mon ami. I liked your pointing out that resin acts as a UV screen to protect the
                     seeds. That leads to sterilization of low-THC individuals growing in high-UV environments. It's a very plausible
                     answer to my question, "What advantage does the lower THC individual have in the low-UV environment?"

                     Baudelaire, you mentioned the one thing gnawing at me throughout the discussion; "But the indoor breeders are
                     SELECTING for high THC, so despite the low-UV environment, natural selection of low-THC individuals isn't
                     taking place, thus it can't be causing the degradation."

                     That would only happen if the breeders accepted the seeds of low-THC individuals. If they selected F1 breeeding
                     pairs that were not as potent as the P1 generation, and F2s less potent than F1s, etc. ad infinitum, then clearly
                     the potency declines due to poor breeding.

                     I believe there's nothing else to blame the decline in "THC" in Dutch weed on, but poor breeding. The natural
                     selection of low-THC individuals due to a low-UV environment is cancelled out by GOOD selection by the breeder
                     in such environments. OT1's examples of outdoor-grown populations remain consistent with this view, as they
                     WERE naturally selected populations subject to the differing levels of UV exposure.

                     Baudelaire rightly points out that there ARE hemp strains that thrive in high-UV environments without "degrading"
                     into drug cannabis. This may be a demonstration of those particular strainís capacity for UV-resistance in the
                     absence of resin.




                     TOPIC - UV p.s.
                     DATE - 20:38:26 9/13/99
                     FROM - Baudelaire
                     That last paragraph came off wrong. I mean to say that the *Royal Navy's* published observations (as opposed to
                     OT1's) regarding the sub-tropical hemp farm are problematic because of the aforementioned ongoing successful
                     cultivation of hemp in those areas today. I have no doubt that OT1's personal observations are accurate.



                     TOPIC - Hydro plants
                     DATE - 16:50:35 9/13/99
                     FROM - Fred
                     I am interested in growing some hydro - do you have any literature that could help me out in my endeavor? It
                     would be appreciated!


                     TOPIC - Mr Soul your White Shark
                     DATE - 16:12:38 9/13/99
                     FROM - Raydavies
                     Any suggestions on the best time to harvest ? I was planning on waiting until 80% pistil change. Considering
                     50-60% for more sativa type high. What do you think ? Great plants easy to grow. Most of my clones rooted in
                     4-6 days in soil. Lots of visible trichomes at 20 days of flowering. I've noticed the skunk smell is now faint and
                     now they smell more like my sweet tooth lady. BTW got some great looking plants out of the in/out mix. Just put
                     6 in the flowering room. also wanted to mention that I had 3 light screw ups and no hermies from yours or Vic's
                     genetics. Thanks,Ray


                     TOPIC - Vic, peruvian sativa pics
                     DATE - 16:02:26 9/13/99
                     FROM - Raydavies
                     If your intrested I posted some pics of a peruvian sativa lady at cannabis culture. She sure is easy to grow. I
                     topped them early in flowering and it seemed to stop the stretching. Sorry about the crappy camera. Hope you
                     can see how those buds are starting fatten up. Great seeds Vic.


                     TOPIC - UV
                     DATE - 15:56:48 9/13/99
                     FROM - Baudelaire
                     Can I play too?

                     We too often forget that any observed phenotypical trait is the manifestation of a genetic super-set (the range of
                     total possible genetic outcomes) interacting with an environmental subset (the specific environment of the
                     observed individual). Environments typically constrain rather than enhance genetic potential, in that few
                     environments provide a 100% safe, nurturing and reproduction-promoting bio-zone for the subject individual.
                     Something's always eating something else, as you guerilla gardeners know too well, haha. (That's my best Vic

                     UV certainly falls under the rubric of "environmental constrainers" in that it is immediately and universally
                     injurious to living cells of all kinds. Only those organisms which develop systems to lower cellular exposure to
                     UV survive in high UV environments. Therefore it can be said that UV is a negative selection factor- evolution
                     selects against organisms which cannot defend themselves against its effects.

                     IF (an unproven "if" in this debate, BTW) UV levels are substantially higher in sub-tropical and mountain areas of
                     the world, AND cannabis THC production is influenced by UV exposure, then what likely happened to the Royal
                     Navy's colonial pot farm was a simple case of selection. That is, introducing a negative environmental factor (high
                     UV) that selects out individuals without the genetic potential to defend against the negative factor. Thus,
                     European hemp individuals which expressed little or no UV protection (THC), were selected against by Nature at
                     His Majesty's rope ranch. Individuals which expressed a little more UV protection (THC) were favored and better
                     represented in the following generations. To get practical for a moment, pot seeds in the buds of low-THC plants
                     may become damaged and unviable in high UV environments. That could be a powerful mechanism for
                     selecting-out low THC individuals quickly, akin to sterilizing all brown-eyed inhabitants of an isolated island.
                     Within a few generations a mostly brown-eyed population would dramatically increase the proportion of blue- and
                     green-eyed individuals, as brown-eye dominant genes were forcefully and emphatically selected against.

                     Now, the reverse hypothesis regarding high THC-producing individuals in environments with low UV likewise could
                     be ascribed to a LACK of environmental constraints. Thus, lower THC-producing individuals among the high-THC
                     population are NOT selected out in low UV environments. That is, their seeds are not damaged and remain
                     viable, and their offspring thrive despite their lack of UV protection (THC). Over generations the proportion of
                     low-THC individuals rises within the high-THC population. They interbreed with the high-THC individuals, and
                     introduce their low-THC genotypes into the larger group. With UV absent as a negative selection factor, low-THC
                     individuals are no longer disadvantaged in reproduction relative to high-THC individuals. They thrive, and the
                     group's average THC production gradually falls.

                     Applying this logic to OT1's observations is problematic, though. For while cannabis breeders may have
                     neglected to employ UV as a factor in their growing environments over the years, they most certainly have
                     selected for potency. Potency in the layman's sense is not directly correlative with THC. Potency begs the
                     question of CBD vs THC vs THCV proportions, i.e., both Haze and Afghani #1 are considered potent strains with
                     very different highs due to different proportions of these components. Nonetheless, potency as a rough measure
                     of THC production has been probably the single most important and universally applied selection factor by
                     cannabis breeders, and must be considered to have mitigated the genetic drift caused by lack of UV-induced
                     selection. OT1 would likely respond that (Dutch) breeders have been fooling themselves into believing high-CBD
                     producing individuals are just as good to breed as high-THC individuals, and over time have polluted a formerly
                     high-THC producing population with high-CBD producing genotypes. Or, as Soul would say, they cross Afghani
                     into every damn thing they get their hands on.

                     The other problem with OT1's observations is that I believe hemp was and still is commercially cultivated for fiber
                     in several sub-tropical countries, including Jamaica, India, China and the Philipines. A third problem is that UV is
                     a mutagen, which opens up a whole other can of worms....I yield the floor back to the moderator.



                     TOPIC - supersoil
                     DATE - 10:33:58 9/13/99
                     FROM - kaka
                     thanks, think I'll let that mix sit for a while and just use coconut and casting this crop.


                     TOPIC - Sorry been kinda "busy".
                     DATE - 05:53:23 9/13/99
                     FROM - Soul
                     Vic_~ & Aeric77_~ Drop me a note: MrSoul@england.com

                     OT1_~ I can see you well understood me mate - it's nice when I don't offend my friends and you know that DOES
                     happen too often to me LOL! I'm always working on my diplomacy.

                     I'd like to keep thinking about this UV light thing. The main thing I'm concentrating on is the genes of the plants -
                     to suggest that exposure to lowered UV levels in the parental generation creates a next generation with a
                     lowered maximum potential for THC production, seems outrageous somehow. To my mind, selection effect is
                     taking place and is the true cause of the drift downward of THC in the successive generations.

                     We may agree here, because you said that the plants were left to seed naturally...so natural selection can
                     reasonably be expected to favor the plants best-suited to the environment. Somehow, in areas of lower UV, the
                     best-suited cannabis has lower THC levels in accordance? Somehow, the plants with lower THC levels MUST
                     have an advantage in this lowered UV environment and they dominate in naturally bred populations. So you'd be
                     saying in summary:

                     When cannabis is grown in low-UV environments, the plants that thrive best are those with lower THC levels.
                     Moreover, a selective breeding program based on choosing parent plants which best thrived in the low-UV
                     environment leads to a decline in THC production in succeeding generations.




                     TOPIC - DM
                     DATE - 00:30:07 9/13/99
                     FROM - irish
                     check the box


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 23:25:51 9/12/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     kaka - yep you may be in kaka. All that for just 7 gallons? shit, my recipe fills 5 10 gal nursery pots! If you
                     haven't composted for a couple weeks, or longer, ther is a good chance your girls will fry within two weeks.

                     Kelp meal just adds micros, so just find an alternate source of micros. It also boosts the K component, which
                     was lacking in the original mix. Up here, kelp meal is common in agricultural supply outlets.

                     As the soil composts, the pH will stabilize. Especially after you dilute the fertilizer to a safe level, haha


                     TOPIC - vics supersoil
                     DATE - 23:09:47 9/12/99
                     FROM - kaka
                     I went out today and bought:
                     worm castings
                     blood meal
                     bone meal
                     epson salt

                     to make up my soil mix, which is:
                     2/3 coconut coir
                     1/3 worm shit
                     2 cups lime
                     4 cups bone meal
                     2 cups blood meal
                     = 7 gallons of grow mix.

                     I was trying to recreate the bcga soil mix but with no soil and coconut in its place. Im in love with the stuff and
                     had heaps around to use.

                     I didnt find kelp meal anywhere and Im wondering just how important it is?

                     Secondly, I watered 2 samples of the mix to measure the pH/ppm of the run off. When I used tapwater pH 7.5
                     the run off measured in at pH 10!! Then I used adjusted pH water of 6.2 and the run off measured in at 9.5 ph.

                     Am I gonna fry my plants or what?
                     Do I need to adjust my water to a really low pH for watering or am I gonna be okay using a normal 6.2pH or even
                     just regular tap water of 7.5?



                     TOPIC - Re:Earth Juice pH problem.
                     DATE - 18:28:58 9/12/99
                     FROM - james
                     I had the same problem as well. Even using the pond pump as you mentioned I still couldn't raise the pH.

                     I finally bought some pH-up to raise the pH.

                     Also - I wonder if using the pH-up will somehow affect the
                     microbial action of the EJ catalyst - any ideas

                     Vic - thanx for the advice - I'll scrap the phosphate.


                     TOPIC - Earth juice ph problem
                     DATE - 13:38:51 9/12/99
                     FROM - edhassle
                     I thought I'd give the earth juice a try after hearing some good reports about the improved flavor and taste.I used a
                     20 gal rubbermaid trash can as the reservoir and filled with reverse/osmosis filtered water at 6.2 ph

                     Then added 20 tbsp bloom and 10 tbsp grow and added a 210gpm little gaint pond pump to keep the water
                     circulating and aerated.But after 24 hours I checked the ph and it still at 4-5 I don't have a digital ph meter just a
                     elcheapo aquarium
                     ph test kit so I'm guessing since the ph range is only 5-8 on the kit.

                     Here's my dilemma the plants are in 3gallon containers of pro-mix and castings and have been flowering for
                     1week,Will the EJ acidic ph 4 cause any nutrient deficiencies....Should I use a ph adjuster to raise the ph to 6.0

                     I had read one of shabang~ post where he claims the circulating pump raised his ph from 4.5 to 7.0 in a day or
                     so....Has anyone else observed this? Any advise is appereciated. ed


                     TOPIC - Seeds
                     DATE - 12:13:57 9/12/99
                     FROM - Rev Jeremy
                     Looking for seeds for medical research Hybreds pref (dwarfs} we are a Parinoied non-profit lol Projest aids
                     international if you have seeds we will pay but not throw da nose were in Hollywood CA USA im at
                     RevJeremy@aol.com we need your help


                     TOPIC - female seeds
                     DATE - 10:52:20 9/12/99
                     FROM - htg
                     I was obviously referring to the production of female seeds and the induction of male flowers on female clones.
                     Please reply. htg


                     TOPIC - female seeds
                     DATE - 10:47:53 9/12/99
                     FROM - htg
                     Can anyone give reference to a good method of producing females (i.e. spraying gibberellic acid or asprin in
                     watering)? Please help! htg


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 06:27:58 9/12/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Chronic - yes, it got the job done but wasn't the best. I mixed hutes and planted - just replaced manure with kelp
                     meal. Your flower power is slow to break down, so the smaller your pots (reduced veg time), the less effective the
                     soil will be. These are subjective areas, get your feet wet and play, your situation may be different.

                     James - no ideas on quantities off of the top of my head, but you may want to bag the rock phosphate. My
                     understanding is that it is very very slow to break down, and unless you plan to have your plants in the mix for
                     like a year, it won't be used.


                     TOPIC - Calling all Souls.......
                     DATE - 05:38:04 9/12/99
                     FROM - aeric77
                     hell, there's only one..........thank god for small favors... Hey Soullllllllllllllllllllllll!!!!!!.......it's time to rock and roll,
                     wake up, it's Sunday Morn and time to play.......talk to me.......@opermail.com.......


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 05:17:43 9/12/99
                     FROM - ZOMBIORI ANDREI
                     este cineva aici care a folosit canabis


                     TOPIC - Super soil...
                     DATE - 22:04:33 9/11/99
                     FROM - chronic man
                     Hey Vic when you used the Super Soil after just mixing it, did it work OK?? Or did you have to add nutrients for
                     a while until the soil broke down? And if you did add nutrients, which kind did you add??
                     cHrOnIc man


                     TOPIC - Organic Nutrients
                     DATE - 21:00:27 9/11/99
                     FROM - james
                     Anyone know how much greensand and rock phosphate to add per litre/gallon of soil? Can't seem to find
                     anything mentioned in the soil recipes.



                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 20:00:36 9/11/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     sensi - just want to clarify, I didn't create the supersoil, the original recipe was taught to me from an old
                     commercial grower. The romulan source. The only real improvement I've come up with is the addition of worm
                     castings, they help get the clones off to a fast start :) Oh and I agree, the longer you let it age, the better. I've
                     also planted straight after mixing, but skipped the manure, was worried about it being too "hot".

                     For the newbie cloners, check out the sites with newbie pages, or if you need a quick fix, check out the main
                     page here. I've compiled a list of posts on cloning that should answer most questions.


                     TOPIC - UV or not UV ... That is the question ...
                     DATE - 19:44:33 9/11/99
                     FROM - Curious George
                     Danbo ... glad to hear the news about A1's kids ... I suspect that the records for the "bitch" are available to his
                     criminal attorney via supoena . ( On one pretext or another ) It could be interesting reading, and might shed light
                     on the whole situation with the cops since there was probably a record made of an internal hearing before she
                     was reprimanded, and she probably made excuses that could implicate the cops or at least shed light on their
                     motivation. This shouldn't be a problem for the criminal attorney, unless he's trying Very hard not to antagonize
                     the DA's office ... ( which isn't a bad strategic move ).

                     Personally, if I had a client that agreed, I'd go for the biggest publicity stink imaginable. Having already won on
                     the kids issue, the biggest threat to A1 is either gone or almost gone. It's a wonderful story standing alone, much
                     less the milage the press could get if they tie it into the ongoing criminal matter.

                     Vic, Soul, & Oldtimer ... Having significantly fewer firing synapses these days, I'm forgetting some of my botany
                     and geography and meteorology ... but ... what difference is there between a lot of UV on a mountain in
                     Afganistan and a lot of UV in the middle of an equatorial savanna in Columbia?

                     There's a lot of UV in the northern latitides when you get into the mountains ... and a lot of UV near the equator
                     because of the angle the light hits the earth ... the main differences in climate are temp. & humidity ... right?

                     So, are the differences in the THC-CBD-CBN ratios more due to atmospheric preasure, temp. & humidity, than to
                     just UV? I suspect that the total amount of these compounds stays about the same, and only the ratio changes.

                     Using high UV as part of the selection process seems to be a good idea, and the info you guys have been
                     providing is certainly very interesting, but it's always another matter to Implement that knowledge. Let us know
                     how it works out.

                     The excessive concern about high THC ratios is something that a lot of kids never seem to outgrow. There's not
                     much difference between one hit and two hit stuff, if you're not constantly wasted. The smoking part of the
                     experience, the shared communion, is completely lost when everybody in the room is a drooling fool after 10
                     minutes of "party".

                     Personally, I'd just as soon avoid huge amounts of THC ... it's just not pleasant ... . Better to savor a taste and
                     an aroma, than to get totally polluted.

                     Speaking of THC-CBN-CBD ratios, what happens to them during a 30 day cure? Is there any research in the
                     botanical archives?

                     Just Curious


                     TOPIC - Mr Soul.........
                     DATE - 17:43:51 9/11/99
                     FROM - aeric77
                     hey Soul........
                     please eme at operamail.com...........good to see ya dude.......


                     TOPIC - surprises
                     DATE - 15:04:17 9/11/99
                     FROM - frank
                     hey all,
                     finally cured the small sampling of Vics surprises and the plant that stood out in my garden was the romulan
                     surprise. Most resinous plant grown to date and gets you stoned to the bone. I'm hoping Richard or BB have a
                     few of those available. The peruvian was nice also,I pulled her early but the high is still up, clear although short
                     lived. The peruvian was seen in the one romberry female I got, the strawberry surprise high much like a cal indica
                     high,nice fruity flavor and soft smoke. Thanks again Vic.

                     Budm or friend that posted last comments regarding his situation about a month ago please let someone know
                     whats up, if you need help we can't give it if you don't ask bro. Lots of people worrying about you my friend.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 13:40:47 9/11/99
                     FROM - oldtimer1
                     Hi Soul a lot of what you say I agree with but as our government learned in the past cannabis adapts to its
                     environment very quickly indeed and it cost them a lot of money. When we were a sailing nation hemp had been
                     grown on a large field scale in Norfolk for the admiralty for several hundred years. In their wisdom they decided
                     labour being 1/100 in the middle east they moved production to one of our protectorates. There was no other
                     cannabis cultivated within the area and the first year crops were the normal single whip 12 to 15 ft long bast fibre
                     plants of home within 4 years the plants had adapted to a short branched 5 to 6 ft plants were already producing
                     quite a lot of resin which clogged the machinery and the fibre quality was inferior for making sail cloth or rope
                     also the fibre yield dropped considerably. They had to produce seed here and send it out and that worked out
                     satisfactory but costly and eventually abandoned hemp production round the med. As I have mentioned before
                     JW Fairburn did light/potency research in the UK in the 60/70ís and to go with your theory found that Thai grown
                     from seed taken from samples of impounded weed produced little thc under glass. But when given
                     supplementary uv produced about 3.6% against .02% without. Now while this is quite reasonable considering
                     they were leaf samples as Thai would never flower properly here. That goes along with your supposition that if it
                     is in the genetic make up uv will help the plant produce more complex forms of thc. I had not meant to go into
                     detail as we have been through a lot of this on this page before. But the experiment have been done many times
                     before both here and even more so in the states! We should learn from what has gone from before not keep trying
                     to reinvent the wheel. Your own government did loads of research via university grants in the past and the change
                     period from a high thc low cbd to low thc, high cbd is about 4 to 5 years taking a southern variety and growing it
                     in the northern areas! We are not talking about any selection here just grown field scale. Interestingly when taken
                     back to the original environment they revert to the high thc low cbd form over a similar period. Where as a type 3
                     fibre plant as i stated above while adapting in form rapidly and while producing a lot of resin only adapts its thc
                     production upwards very slowly indeed. Most of the varieties grown by us now are a mix of type 1 and type 2
                     plants mostly looking like type 2 [high resin hash production]. They were originally made in the states! It gave
                     plants that would finish early enough in the southern states. As people in the northern states found they could
                     grow them just as well under HIDís newer more compact varieties were developed and I believe they were very
                     potent from the samples i tried at the time, things like northern lights, bigbud and skunk#1. They were drawn
                     from genetics grown in the south where there is real sun! Now this is a supposition, but all these earlier breeders
                     used big metal halides and they do give off useful amounts of uv! I suspect these early varieties had a good
                     proportion of thc in relation to cbd. In Holland at this time they had been using supplementary lighting under
                     glass to grow tomatoes and flowers for a while using the lately developed son t plus type of sodium lamps! All
                     the wonderful varieties were taken from the states and the seed industry started to develop in Holland and of
                     course they took on board the local growing methods lots of small highbay sodium lamps but in rooms instead of
                     under glass. In my opinion the quality has been going down ever since! I have tried nearly every thing grown in
                     Holland, I have grown some of both yours and Vicks varieties and believe me they stand above any thing you can
                     buy in the dam! I suspect this is because both of you use a mix of halide and sodium which doesn't happen in
                     Holland. By the way this doesn't mean they cant be improved hehe.
                     I donít know what Vic is doing but If I was him I would be subjecting my seedlings and breeding stock to uv the
                     survivors having the most adapted genes, a fast track back to the high thc combinations. It is unlikely that there
                     will be any type 3 genes in the mix and given a few generations hopefully he may have some killer combinations,
                     but only time will answer this I look forward to seeing the results! Soul Iím no scientist nor geneticist, a gardener
                     yes! I just like this plant a lot, Iíve grown it for over 30 years, Iím appalled at what has been happening in Holland
                     breeding wise. To me it is down to you boutique growers to take it to another level! DP say in their catalogue that
                     blueberry has been tested at 19.5% thc, well that is all bullshit to me, do you know that the strongest Colombian
                     ever seized by your government tested 9.7% thc. Iíve smoked both and to me the bb wouldn't be in the running!

                     All the best Ot1.



                     TOPIC - Vic eme please
                     DATE - 13:32:08 9/11/99
                     FROM - Dankmaster
                     I am sure you would like to play with my new hybrid and would love to get it to ya, so let me know or maybe your
                     not intrested. I know I really don't breed properly, but thats something about having instincts that make it work
                     just as good

                     Irish I got your email a long time ago and mota mentioned it to me then I sent ya back a reply, cause I get
                     laxed.. but I guess you never got it, anyway I ve been waiting for everything to be ready and I haven't forgot about
                     you..so I need something from you..eme too


                     TOPIC - one more time
                     DATE - 12:54:20 9/11/99
                     FROM - irish
                     good to hear the news...
                     thanks for keeping us posted.

                     i hope all the best for A1 and family. it has sure been one hell of a ride so far.


                     TOPIC - cloning gel
                     DATE - 12:41:11 9/11/99
                     FROM - irish
                     if they have some rooting compound or cloning gel, dip in cut after cutting the bottom of the stem (/) then right in
                     to the mix.

                     also go to places like:
                     for more basic info.


                     TOPIC - green king
                     DATE - 12:39:05 9/11/99
                     FROM - irish
                     go to these places and buy some "perlite" and "vermiculite"
                     you'll find it probably in the garden section. mix them in small cups (usually the plastic picnic "solo" cups) make
                     the mix 50/50. also buy a razor knife while you're there. find a three or four inch (nice healthy) section of the
                     plant. clip this piece off just above the two "growing tips", hope fully leaving two or three sets of internodes
                     (branches and growing tips) trim off all but the top two or three branches

                     cut the bottom of the "cutting" at a 45 degree angle / then dip in the moist "per/ver mix" wait until you see new
                     growth or roots in the cup. keep moist by spraying plain water on it once in the morning and once at night. more
                     if needed.

                     should see roots in about six days or so, should see growth in about ten.

                     did i forget anything?


                     TOPIC - How to clone from getting supplies at orchard,an
                     DATE - 12:26:55 9/11/99
                     FROM - greenking
                     Well this is my first time cloing and really need some help from all you experts out there i've got a purple kush
                     mom thats about 2 feet and really want to clone her so whats the best possible way to clone from getting
                     supplies at orchard and home base , thanks


                     TOPIC - Super Soil
                     DATE - 11:40:47 9/11/99
                     FROM - sensi
                     cHrOnIc man: Vic should get a medal for developing SuperSoil. It's just superb for herb growing. I let my age
                     ALOT longer than Vic recommends. When I first tried SSoil, I only let it sit 3 or so weeks and had a problem with
                     nutrients running off after watering plants ( yellow run off) Next batch I let sit OUTSIDE for 3 months - I covered it
                     with a tarp to keep rain out and bugs away. It seems, like wine, to get better with age. Last batch I upped the
                     Organics in it, but I let sit outside in the extreme heat we had this Summer. This batch is just about perfect! I like
                     to add 30-50% Pearlite and some Coarse sand rather then use straight for better drainage. Maybe a little Bat
                     Guano during flowering.


                     TOPIC - UV
                     DATE - 09:21:14 9/11/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Soul, please email me sometime, I lost your email addy.

                     Thanks for the challange, it gives me reason to take the time to explain further ;) Basically, under non selective
                     pressures I agree with your point 100%. However, artificial selective pressures are at play here. Also, I agree,
                     simply creating your seeds under high UV conditions will have little effect on future generations, you will just get
                     more potent seedy buds. You need to use the UV in your selection process, this is where change can occur. My
                     argument will make a few assumptions that are open for challange though, hehe.

                     First, lets consider THC's role and effects on a plant's overall health. It can be good or bad for a plant depending
                     on it's location, for example, a low THC plant growing in a high THC environment is going to spend alot of energy
                     repairing tissues damaged by UV. Therefore, it won't be able to be as vigorous as other plants with high THC.
                     However, a high THC plant growing in a low UV environment will waste alot of energy producing THC, energy that
                     could have gone to faster growth. Therefore, vigour could represent opposite traits depending on the environment.

                     And the most vigourous tend to be what we and nature selects for. In our case, our selection pressure are much
                     more extreme because we work with much smaller population sizes. What would take nature hundreds of
                     generations, we could do in half a dozen or less. Cannabis has enough genetic variation to allow this. Take haze
                     for instance, how many are the bomb, and how many are dogs? By purely selecting the bombs each round
                     (males included), it shouldn't take long to clean up the line and make it predominately bombs, less than six
                     generations is my guess. However, we like to select for more than potency, hence complicating the issue, hehe.
                     But how do we select the male's that are the most potent? Especially with our small population sizes?

                     Well first lets talk about the effects of population size and selective pressures and how they work together. It's
                     common thinking that to improve a seedline from generation to generation, you need to reserve only the top 10%
                     of the population for breeding. For faster results, make that the top 1%, the smaller the number, the faster the
                     results. However, the size of your breeding population is also important to maintain vigour. The smaller the
                     breeding population, the more likely you may end up pairing up lethal recessive alleles. So you end up trying to
                     strike a balance between keeping your breeding population a decent and healthy size and placing as much
                     selective pressure on selecting your breeding population. A larger population size would have solved DJ Short's
                     blueberry problems, it's lack of vigour and deformed growth. IMO, of course, hehe, only DJ knows the truth, hehe.

                     Space is usually our limiting factor, you can only select from so many. This is where my UV ideas come into
                     play, to allow me to select from a larger population. Two flats of seedlings can take up as much space as one or
                     two adult plants. My flats hold between 48 and 72 seedlings, depending on cube size. My assumption is that if I
                     can grow the seedlings under high UV, those seedlings with the most THC should be the most vigorous. And to
                     top it off, the biggest plants put themselves at a bigger risk by growing closer to the UV source! So now, when
                     you move from the seedling flats to the 5" pots, you save only the best "looking" 10%, hard to select based on
                     anything else at this point. You should be able to further your selection in the 5" to 6" pots based on other
                     selection criteria such as powdery mildew resistance, for example and reduce your population by another 50%
                     before moving to the final growing medium. Take back up clones of each and then flower them out, steadily
                     removing any undesireables and doing taste tests, hehe. By about halfway through flowering you should be down
                     to your top 1% of the population. All the while, exposing the plants to high UV, giving those with the most THC a
                     selective advantage.

                     It would be fun to back up these ideas with GLC data, but my connections are not that great, and I haven't found
                     the equipement that I could buy for my persoanl Lab, haha. Anyway, I left lots of holes in my idea for further
                     discussion or challanges if anyone wishes :)

                     Side notes:

                     1) when I quote numbers as I did below with the blueberry seedlings, don't take the numbers too literal, it's the
                     ratios that have the real meaning ;)

                     2) Soul, thanks for playing along, I know most of this was basics for ya ;) Good to see ya, and again, please
                     email me.


                     TOPIC - A-1's Kids
                     DATE - 07:14:46 9/11/99
                     FROM - Danbo
                     A-1 has got his kids back. His criminal attorney told him not to fight it because of the possible ramifications on
                     his criminal trial. he ignored him and went to court putting witnesses on the stand including his doctor that wrote
                     his prescription. When the
                     judge saw this was headed into a lenghty
                     process, he asked what exactly do you want sir? A-1 replied,"My kids your honor and the bitch that took them
                     under false pretense".
                     He got both. The bitch was taken off the case and repremanded. He has to drug test and go to anger
                     management counciling. Because he has a letter from his doctor, testing positive for MJ is no problemo.


                     TOPIC - Evolutionary Time Frames, UV Light & THC
                     DATE - 07:12:19 9/11/99
                     FROM - Soul
                     Oldtimer1_~ High mate, don't get me wrong, but I want to challenge this idea of yours. Your hypothesis that
                     cannabis evolved to produce greater THC levels as a defensive reaction to greater levels of UV light exposure
                     seems sound to me. It's the conclusion you're drawing that bothers me:

                     You've observed the plants decline in potency over 4/5 generations. But is this occurring while the original
                     generation's clones continue to maintain their potency? Even if so, that cannot be definitively linked to their UV
                     exposure ALONE and it's much more likely to simply be due to breeding.

                     Have you considered the length of time evolution takes? It seems to me, the degree of evolution of species to an
                     environmental variable cannot be detected in so short a period as 4/5 generations. The particular example you're
                     interested in is the correlation of THC production to exposure to UV light...that takes thousands, or millions of

                     Your suggestion that the UV exposure is responsible for THC levels in cannabis grown indoors dropping over the
                     course of a few generations shocks me. I would put the blame for the decline in THC on the UV exposure itself -
                     not the effects of "evolution" over a few generations. Do you see what I mean? The plants are far more likely to be
                     responding to the ACTUAL UV exposure during their own lifetime, than the lifetimes of their forefathers.

                     I submit that THC production is simply directly proportional to UV exposure while growing...with a genetic
                     maximum level specific to each strain.

                     The test of this theory would compare the THC production of first generation Himalayan cannabis grown
                     outdoors, to clones of the same plants grown indoors under typical MH & HPS lamps, and a third group grown
                     indoors with additional UV.

                     I believe that increased UV exposure during flowering would raise resin production (easily observed) at the very
                     least, but testing for increases in specific cannabinoids would be more complicated, albeit more FUN :)

                     Gentlemen - I yield the floor.



                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 04:54:47 9/11/99
                     FROM - oldtimer1
                     cedartop There is a lot of evidence that the development of the psychoactive substances produced by cannabis
                     are directly related to exposure over generations to uv radiation. Thc is one of the most effective uv filters known
                     to man, what better way to protect the seed embryo! Historically it is well known that the plant looses the
                     complexity of thc production over several generations when grown under less extreme conditions. ie if you take
                     seed from the Himalayas to England and grow under glass it only has a 1/5 of its original potency after 4/5
                     generations, the glass filtering out most of the little uv we get here. So a few breeders are working with uv to try
                     and reverse some of the degradation to seed stocks that has happened with breeders using just sodium lights.
                     Also I suppose to prove if the suppositions are true! it is going to take several generations to see big changes
                     and prove it one way or the other, but from my preliminary dabblingís Iím pretty convinced, we will see.

                     Vic yes they came from sag they were made autumn / winter 97 / 98!

                     Budm If you are out there give us a sign please!!!!!!!!!!

                     All the best Ot1.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 19:53:41 9/10/99
                     FROM - cedartop
                     vic, this might be a dumb one, but why did you put your group under the uv light?


                     TOPIC - Lothar
                     DATE - 19:38:13 9/10/99
                     FROM - jay
                     im just hiding in the woodwork,hehe.hows life been treating you..?i thought you had left us for brighter and better
                     things,but you just keep coming back like all these other old hands..lol...great to see ya..


                     TOPIC - aging seeds
                     DATE - 15:06:46 9/10/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     OK, I started a new batch of blueberry seeds last weekend, need a new male, and wanted to check out some
                     new versions. I also decided to compare germination between new and old seeds, hehe. So I used sunshine #1
                     peat based soil mix. I soaked it overnight with a solution of water and nutriboost. I then took a pencil and poked a
                     1/2" hole in each planting cell of a seedling flat and placed a seed in each hole. I did not cover. Usually I would
                     mist with no-damp, but was out, so I misted with plain tap water. I then placed in the cloning bench but more
                     under a black light (weak UV source) than the grow tubes. They are within 8 inches of the flo tubes.

                     So far this is the results:

                     OTBL6 (1998?) - 9/9
                     OTBL8 (1998?) - 9/9
                     BL8 (1997) - 9/9 and 8/9
                     BL8 (1999) - 7/9
                     BL10 (1999) - 7/9
                     BBL7 (1999) - 1/9 and 2/9

                     OTBLs were from Oldtimer. They were seeds from his best two blueberries. I think he got his from Sag, but can't
                     remember for sure. They've been in the fridge for a while. These were the fastest to sprout.

                     BBL7 - the BBL line was from Bubi who said they were second gen 1997 Sag blueberries. BBL7 was a monster
                     like romberry in yield. Of all her sisters, she was tops in flavour and potency as well!! A no compromize
                     blueberry. These seeds have been sitting at room temps for about a month since being harvested. They had
                     never been refrigerated. Seeds look viable, but seem slow to sprout.

                     BL8 and BL10 - these are two clones from my original blueberry purchase in 1996 from Emery. These are the
                     moms of all the BCGA blueberry being marketed. BL10 gives the most deformed seedlings, hence it's reduced
                     use. The 1997 stock has been refrigerated most of the time. The 1999 stock has been handled the same as the
                     BBL7, harvested a month ago and stored at room temps. All seeds are in the cooler now.

                     The pollen souce for the BBL7 and all BL8 and BL10 seeds is also from this original batch. The new male will
                     only come from this line to preserve the original blueberry genetics since the new blueberries are really
                     blueberry/bubbleberry hybrids.

                     It seems as if seeds need to be aged for a period before they become viable, at least those that are indica
                     dominant. I also suspect a chilled period helps prepare them for sprouting. I will be trying this again after a period
                     of refrigeration.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 14:18:13 9/10/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Lothar??? You still alive? I figured you left these sites. Want to hook up? Email is above.

                     Chronic - I happened to get a handful of those stubby plants out of the hundreds of romberries I grew. They
                     sucked yield wise in the big pots, or when big. Huge impressive cola, but the plant was too bushy for light to
                     penetrate, so buds only developed for about 8-10 inches into the canopy. However, it showed promise when
                     flowered smaller in 2 gal pots. It would possibly be good for the SOG grower. But they don't stretch much, so will
                     need a little more than normal veg time to maximize yield.

                     Aeric - another back from the dead, how the hell are ya? Still feeding molasses to the pigs? The CO was a big
                     hit up here. She really liked my grow room. My friends liked here as well. I harvested twice, at 7 weeks and at
                     nine weeks. Got double the yield at nine weeks, but side by side, everyone preferred the flavour of the early
                     immature bud. Only person to not like it was RC, but he's from Quebec. I passed along your comments that it
                     was a good party weed so he took it to a festival or something. Said he wished he had taken the c99 instead, or
                     something, haha. Actually, I forget what strain he said, but I got a good chuckle.

                     Spud, I've had success using Dynogen spray (.005%) in aerosol form as a GA souce. Check out BCGA's main
                     page for the details, and confirm the concentration.

                     Hope that's everyone.



                     TOPIC - off topic, but happy today
                     DATE - 13:06:31 9/10/99
                     FROM - cedartop
                     guys i've been poor, real poor for the last five years since i have not been able to work. finally got news of my
                     disability being upped to a 100 percent today. damn wont be eating beans four out of seven days now. hats off
                     to my wife she put up with this and stuck by me and it sure was good to surprise her with the news after she got
                     off work today. life is good brothers.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 03:23:00 9/10/99
                     FROM - Lothar
                     HI de ho to all
                     Good to see you all
                     Saven for a house so all I Been doin is work and gardening
                     After all the experimenting Ive done over the past 5 crops Ive come to the conclusion that the 2 I have are the
                     best for me
                     I am happy to see familier handles and I am hopen that your crops are all lush and green,your buds are dank and
                     sticky,and very crop is bigger than your last
                     And for Vic ... I heard a little romour of this Plant they be calling "The real macoy"....Appearently huge growth,
                     simple to grow mega return (Big ass Buds)Only draw back shit stinks like you got a dead skunk in your house
                     (well not that bad but you know what I mean) I had the opertunaty to try it out and me being the light smoker I
                     am Well lets say I got just fried
                     Should be outa tests in Decemberish and I am going to get some 4 myself for the 2000 New melenium crop, if ya
                     want let me know
                     Don't C J ????



                     TOPIC - Best way to clone with Anti-transpirant spray
                     DATE - 19:00:52 9/09/99
                     FROM - hempster
                     Well this is going to be my first time cloing (cloing hawin indica) and i decided to use Anti-transpirant spray, but
                     whats the best way to clone with this stuff , what should i use for a medium ? and if i cant find rockwool? when
                     do i water ? and all the other basic? any other info would help and i also have some mr.nice (g13xhashplant)
                     growning,its about 1 weeks old. or any other methods?
                     peace out!
                     Free the WEED!


                     TOPIC - Romberry...and Vic's Super soil
                     DATE - 10:59:59 9/09/99
                     FROM - chronic man
                     A question about Romberry...out of ten, I got five females, and five males. Compared to the Shiskaberry that I
                     got, it did way better. Out of ten shisk plants, I got 2 females, one of which had some kind of disease. Oh
                     well..about the Romberry, it's strange the one that I took the most cuttings from looks quite a bit different from
                     the rest. The leaves are alot bigger than with the other plants, and it's quite a bit bushier as well. It doesn't even
                     look like the same strain as all the others...hmmmm maybe it's a blueberry dominant one. I think some
                     Blueberries are supposed to have very large leaves, am I right?? Just a little observation. So far, I'm impressed.
                     I'm also happy with Vic's Super soil recipe. I haven't had any fertilizer burn, no deficiencies, etc. I've been letting
                     it sit inside. Do any of you who use the Super Soil let it sit outside?? And if you do, aren't you afraid of bugs
                     forming little colonies?? I suppose farmers let their soil sit outside, of course, so I guess theres nothing to really
                     be afraid of. Somehow it just doesn't seem like the thing to do to let it sit outside, and then bring it inside. It's
                     probably me just being silly. I'll get over it, the whole organic thing is new to me, but so far I like it. One more
                     question, what's the minimum time that you let it sit before using it?? I think the recipe says a week, but I'm
                     wondering if the plants would be okay if it sits for less than that. I suppose there might be some slight
                     deficiencies until the soil can be broken down.
                     cHrOnIc man


                     TOPIC - re:ATTN SHAGGY
                     DATE - 07:53:23 9/09/99
                     FROM - KGB
                     Shaggy Bro -

                     OK, check the Shark Tank at Overgrow. There's a message for

                     talk later,


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 22:27:40 9/08/99
                     FROM - wuxi


                     TOPIC - Hey KGB, et al.
                     DATE - 20:03:49 9/08/99
                     FROM - shaggy
                     Hey there buds ;)-~,

                     Firstly, a quick thanks to vic for the info on Pro-Mix. The stuff is fantastic. I may just use some w/castings and
                     perlite to fill my pots. In the meantime, it's not too bad for starting seeds!

                     KGB--Nope, never saw your earlier post. sorry. I haven't exactly been the regular I used to be. So you've been
                     down to my favorite neck of the woods, eh? Awesome place. I'd e-mail ya' but I don't really have an addy
                     anymore. Why don't we continue this conversation over at overgrow.com in the Shark tank? If it gets too
                     troll-ridden we can move somewhere else, but I don't want to fill up vic's server space with our reminiscings
                     (crappy spelling--sorry). Two questions first though--do you post anywhere else under the same name? I knew a
                     KGB at Weedbase before. And what do you mean by outdoor hydro in Cambodia? That kinda puzzles me.
                     Anyway, I'll start a thread at the 'Tank. Feel free to fill in....

                     take it easy my friends,



                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 19:20:31 9/08/99
                     FROM - ahhsome
                     Anyone Intersted In trading seeds??? Got some great Mexican Golds seeds. Im intrested in a Nice indica



                     TOPIC - avid/Aeric
                     DATE - 13:09:06 9/08/99
                     FROM - sb
                     RE: Avid
                     I had a mite infestation that was becoming a serious problem and a friend passed 2.5 teaspoons of the stuff my
                     way.I broke down the entire grow, sprayed the walls and floor, vacuumed the floor, sprayed the floor a second
                     time, reassembled my grow spraying each and every part.Then it was time to bring the plants back in.One by
                     one I brought each pot in and sprayed the bottom, sides of the pot and upper and lower leaf surfaces.It has been
                     10 days and I cannot find a single living mite.With my 30X radio shack "peeper" I see plenty of them frozen in
                     time as it were.
                     I can already see a huge difference in the apparent health of my veggers.Fingers are crossed

                     I just cut up a couple of those CO's yesterday....very nice Bro.


                     TOPIC - New Strains
                     DATE - 10:50:30 9/08/99
                     FROM - Devil420
                     Hello all I'm a newbie here and I'm currently my second crop. The first was a great sucess for a first attempt by
                     an amature grower. I started with a NL#5, a WW, and a wild purple strain that was given to me as a seedling. I
                     have room for 2 new stains, looking for something with an impressive yeild without comprimising quality. I was
                     told Big Bud was what I'm looking for. I'm using a small Ebb & Flow, with a 400W MH/ w/ conversion bulb for
                     flowering. Any suggestions? Let me know



                     TOPIC - the desert rodent......
                     DATE - 09:10:33 9/08/99
                     FROM - aeric77
                     hi m.g.,
                     thanx for saying hi.......good to see ya still around......I guess the true weed rats die hard......hehehehe.......


                     TOPIC - CG
                     DATE - 06:54:54 9/08/99
                     FROM - Danbo
                     There's a bacterium used to kill tomato horn worms that should help you. It's a bacillus with no toxic effects. It's
                     available at your nursery supply . I've used it for all
                     sorts of larval problems with great success. You could drink this shit with no ill effects. Bottoms up!


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 21:41:18 9/07/99
                     FROM - m.g.
                     talk about "still with us"...

                     got a monster cali-o brewing in the garden...good job!


                     TOPIC - no subject..........just Hi to a friend
                     DATE - 21:21:27 9/07/99
                     FROM - aeric77
                     Hi ya perp........nice to know you're still with us......


                     TOPIC - Three Day Weekend
                     DATE - 20:25:06 9/07/99
                     FROM - Curious George
                     Hope all of you had a fine weekend. Those of us in the lower 48 celebrated the traditional end of the summer
                     season. This one was a real flashback.

                     With very few exceptions, we've studiously avoided the festival and campout scenes for the last 20 years, having
                     had more than our fill of peace, love, music, broken glass and dog crap.

                     Were finally persuaded to attend a jam-band campout in a fairly remote rural location. If the weather had been
                     just a Little Bit cooler, it would have been perfect. The music was fine, the sound and lighting systems first rate,
                     and there was a remarkable feeling of looseness. A clear river ran nearby for swimming, canoeing, fishing and
                     baptisms, with enough vendors of food, clothing, artwork & pipes to keep things lively.

                     Dig it ... at 6:00 am Sunday morning we're down on the river bank, crunching in the gravel and pitching a little jig
                     accross the current into some deeper water where logs and brush overhang the opposite bank. The fishing is
                     good ... the air is still ... a few folks who had dosed all night were seated around a small fire ... and just two feet
                     from the water was a soft guitar case and a small pile of blankets just laying there in a heap. So, as we meander
                     up and down this 60 yard stretch of river, the pile of blankets begins to move, and rolls over. It's a guy who has
                     just slept on the gravel all night. He gets shakily to his feet, and then procedes to take a Stratocaster out of the
                     case, plug into a battery powered amp, and begin wailing Jimi Hendrixisms that bounce off the hills and flow
                     downstream just as the sun is coming up! ... what more can I say?

                     At any rate ... back to topic "A". Since there has been a lot of discussion of Pests lately, perhaps someone can
                     identify one that used to plague us years ago when we were doing the outdoor thing. The offending critter was a
                     little worm, sometimes white, but usually pink, about 1/32 in. long. They'd show up whenever we were trying to
                     breed Indica plants, and would go for the seeds, burrowing into and eating them. We never saw them on Sativa
                     plants, just the short, stinky, Indica's. They usually were picked off by hand. Anyone know what they were? Are
                     there any other ways to deter them or get rid of them without hand picking or constant spraying?

                     Just Curious.



                     TOPIC - A Large High Howdy to A77!!!!!!!!
                     DATE - 18:53:35 9/07/99
                     FROM - Perp
                     wa's up ol'man?...nice ta see yer alive! Ha!


                     TOPIC - Hello to all.........and a Q?
                     DATE - 18:06:56 9/07/99
                     FROM - aeric77
                     a question for Vic.....missed ya dude, anyway how'd the Cali O you had turn out????? you still
                     holding?????.......nice board ya got here........


                     TOPIC - ATTN: SHAGGY
                     DATE - 12:58:25 9/07/99
                     FROM - KGB
                     Hey bud -

                     I dunno if you saw my heads-up awhile back, but I noticed
                     you have experience in Laos/SE Asia. I lived there for
                     awhile and actually grew several outdoor hydro crops in
                     Cambodia, and I'd love to chat about the results. Drop me a
                     line here or at my email addy.



                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 08:55:44 9/07/99
                     FROM - KQ
                     junior-botanist I can only imagine what someone else is reading right now!! I have not gotten any recent email
                     from you! can you resend it?

                     Spud, try dynogen in the spray can. Sometimes the Sunday newspaper inserts have it mailorder, I think it is 150
                     ppm. Also Nichols Nursery in Oregon carries the concentrate.


                     TOPIC - Spud and that Rasta fake IMO
                     DATE - 08:05:30 9/07/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     Spud I tried several times to correspond w/ that guy as have many other friends I know ovewr the last 3 years. I
                     haven't had anyone say He followed through w/ any trading let alone returning mail. I gave up and have no idea
                     what that addy was, sorry. My 2 ce3nts on that 1


                     TOPIC - 2 questions
                     DATE - 22:52:23 9/06/99
                     FROM - Spud
                     question 1:Hey 67ed did you happen to write down that dutch jamaican dudes email? Did anyone else get it?
                     (you know, the guy who swaps his seeds who had some great pics of his plants on his web page). His page has
                     obviously been taken off the server cos it cannot be found.

                     question 2: has anyone used gibberellic acid to successfully produce male flowers on female plants? If so, for
                     Gods sake lets hear the exact quantity of GA you used so we can settle this mystery once and for all and start
                     breeding like we should. Also, I would like to know the brand you used, what concentration of GA is in that brand
                     and where you got it from. Does anyone know where to score GA in Perth, WA?


                     TOPIC - spaz
                     DATE - 21:54:20 9/06/99
                     FROM - pi
                     sounds like an od on fertilizer to me. i shoot for abour 900 ppm on most strains and have learned that a
                     flush/clear the last 2 weeks of flower will improve the taste immensely!

                     is it possible that it has been in flower longer than just 35 days?


                     TOPIC - dried up
                     DATE - 21:07:30 9/06/99
                     FROM - spaz
                     hi all ,hope someone can help.
                     in 2 gal pots,sunshine mix using g.h.nutriants.(1400 ppm)
                     5 weeks into flower,81{temp),68% humid.
                     buds are small, dropping a lot of leaf and the small leafs around the buds are dry.plants dont look good.



                     TOPIC - High!!
                     DATE - 19:29:21 9/06/99
                     FROM - greenbear
                     Peaceness,was that the NlxSk thatyou got last year? I have a P.75x( Nl#5xSk#1) hybrid that I
                     haven't got around to sprouting,I think I just might give 'em a try. I know she didn't like
                     indoors,I'm happy to see that she loves it outdoors!! I'll send an E-mail tomarrow.



                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 18:21:49 9/06/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Shaggy - If using an acidic food such as earth juice in a peat based mix that will tend to let it's pH drift
                     downwards, be sure to add some dolomite lime to your promix. From what I've seen, promix isn't really much
                     different than sunshine mix. Time of year play a role in my descision of whether to add perlite or not. Summer
                     time I don't worry about it :)

                     Suprises - damn did that peruvian stud get around, musta been his wild uncivilized nature that drove the girls
                     nuts, hehe.


                     TOPIC - Pro-Mix?
                     DATE - 14:39:59 9/06/99
                     FROM - shaggy
                     Recently got a bag of Pro-Mix--haven't opened it yet, but plan to mix it w/castings and perlite (if necessary).
                     Does anyone have any experience w/Pro-Mix? I still have cocofiber, but I think it's holding on to it's moisture for
                     too long and would like to try something new.

                     Also, going to start using Earth Juice grow--any recommendations on a good, early feeding schedule?

                     Hope everyone is doing well...



                     TOPIC - KQ
                     DATE - 13:06:14 9/06/99
                     FROM - junior-botanist
                     did u know u have mail bro?


                     TOPIC - vic re:pics
                     DATE - 01:34:33 9/06/99
                     FROM - ...
                     white lightning ME circa 96/97
                     culled due to too fast flowering
                     very pretty colors though
                     the pics don't even do it justice. truly.
                     but then hindsight is always more supernatural than the original, isn't it.

                     trouble with my e mail. computer can't handle it i guess.


                     TOPIC - Sativas
                     DATE - 22:32:27 9/05/99
                     FROM - Danbo
                     Raydavies, Sativas generally take up to 12 weeks of flowering time. I'm sure they look skimpy next to indica
                     strains at 6 weeks. I think you'll be surprised how the
                     look at 8 to 10 weeks. Good sativa tends to be a more cerbral high and though the additional flowering times ,
                     are one of my favs.



                     TOPIC - Vic, Sweet Tooth Suprise
                     DATE - 22:12:01 9/05/99
                     FROM - Raydavies
                     I got 5 of 9 females. 1 is very indica and 4 very sativa. Took some early buds from lower part of the indica. During
                     drying, there was a citrus smell. They were very potent for such small early buds. This plant was a breeze to
                     grow and my wife said very pretty. I had 2 light screw ups and no signs of hermie. At 39 days the sativa buds
                     look a little thin. This is my first sativa grow. Is it to early for them to start fattening up ? Great seeds and a great
                     deal. Thanks Vic.


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 16:10:01 9/05/99
                     FROM - KQ
                     Howdy peaceness, you can too save that female of yours! Just take some cuttings about 3 inches long from the
                     bottom of the plant, surgically excise away most buddage and treat like any other clone, high humidity being
                     preferable for a few days. If you did 10 of these, I bet 7 or 8 if not more would make roots under 24/0 of cool blue
                     flo lights. Give it a try at least. Keep mother(s) going all winter and make a slew of clones for next spring.


                     TOPIC - male pollen/next year's outdoor
                     DATE - 15:36:21 9/05/99
                     FROM - Peaceness
                     hello yall, this years outdoor is going
                     well, i have a most EXCELLENT(30 oz from a
                     3x3 ebb n flow under 1k sog, and so danky
                     that you can smell the dried buds 30 feet
                     away double bagged in someones pocket)plant
                     (n.l. #5 x sk #1) that is flowering
                     outdoors unfortunately i did not take
                     clones and cannot save the strain at this
                     point. therefore i am looking for some male
                     pollen to pollenate a few of the ladies. if
                     someone has some pollen laying around, i
                     would be interested in acquiring some.
                     preferrably from a short flowering
                     male.e-mail above, and i will share beans
                     in return. also i am preparing for next
                     years outdoor and am wondering what strains
                     out there are actually ready by this time
                     of year? i have heard of a strain called
                     labour day, being ready this weekend,.
                     anyone harvest outdoors yet and what
                     strains are you using? i am interested in
                     a late august/early sept harvest outdoors.
                     what strain recommendations and sources? i
                     have a few p.75 crosses( GREENBEAR
                     RULES!!!, e-mail me bro) outdoor that have
                     been picked so far and that will be
                     completely ready within the next 10-14
                     days, it is an awesome plant with much haze
                     influence.also, has anyone done shading in
                     the early spring/summer to get an
                     additional harvest outdoors, will be doing
                     that next season, any feedback would be


                     TOPIC - A1 auction
                     DATE - 08:25:21 9/05/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     About the auction, the little fire I've been lighting under those cali butts seems to be getting some attention. I
                     wanted to hold off until A1 and Panzer started communicating with us on what was being recieved. Also, Budm
                     has given the auction the most thought, so I was hoping to leave it all with him and RC. Problem is that we
                     haven't heard much from Budm since his modem fried. If nothing happens soon, I'll pick up the ball, but want to
                     wait and leave it for others for now. Hope you all understand.

                     Take care, Vic


                     TOPIC - thrips
                     DATE - 08:15:38 9/05/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Irish - my first indoor pest problem was thrips, but compared to mites, they went away easily. Basically,
                     whatever kills mites will also control thrips. And don't listen to the books, they can hurt your garden. In an indoor
                     setup, their populations can explode to the point of seriouly hurting your yields.

                     In my case, I Trounced the hell out of my garden for a couple days. Then I followed with a couple days of
                     spraying with straight water to wash the flowers of soap residue. I was fighting a fungas gnat population that was
                     steadily growing and was starting to become a nuicence, so I introduced the fungas gnat predator "Hypoaspis" to
                     the soil. It is reported to also control thrips!! Two weeks later, garden was completely clean of thrips and gnats. I
                     haven't seen a thrip since except on a clone I imported, that small population never stood a chance, hehe. My
                     war with the thrips wasn't much of a war. What is strange is we constantly battled them in greenhouses like we
                     do with mites indoors. Good Luck


                     TOPIC - thrips.
                     DATE - 00:56:46 9/05/99
                     FROM - irish... me again
                     natural enemies of the spider mites.
                     does not markedly affect the fruit/flowers of a plant. does affect the look of a plant from suckling into the leaves.

                     hmmm, spidermite enemies.... so... thrips, spider mites, thrips, spider mites,... any suggestions? MF has been
                     treating with sm90. and hand picking (crushing?) the little basts.


                     TOPIC - thanks
                     DATE - 00:31:55 9/05/99
                     FROM - irish
                     thanks for the link. my friend has thrips, he figured that but didn't have pics in any of his books. now... any

                     vic- will resend.


                     TOPIC - rusty-Best Way To germinate Seeds
                     DATE - 18:06:56 9/04/99
                     FROM - sensi
                     I've found that if you make a 50/50% Mix of Pearlite and Vermiculite; Plant seeds 3/8" or down. Thoroughly
                     moisten and mist daily till seeds sprout. In this mix the little sprouts "POP" to the surface where they can be
                     gently scooped up and planted into the final dirt/mix. No damp off this way either! ( if you use fresh medium)
                     Good Luck!


                     TOPIC -
                     DATE - 10:09:29 9/04/99
                     FROM - Vic High
                     Irish - yes I remeber emails from you. They are no longer in my inbox, but can't remember if I replied to them or
                     not. I guess not if you are asking, hehe. Sorry to have lost ya.

                     C99xblueberry - I had a small number of C99/blueberry hybrids that I promised someone but can't remember
                     who. They are from the C99 seedlings that I raised in the flower room when I was doing the blueberry hybrids.
                     They are from the preflowers of the earliest C99 girl ;) The other beans are going out to those that sent addies,
                     please keep in touch as to how they work out.


                     TOPIC - germinating
                     DATE - 22:29:07 9/03/99
                     FROM - rusty
                     Id like to know the most succesful way to germinate my seeds.Thanks for any help, "rusty"
                     1 more thing , outdoor plants and mould, had some trouble this year, any ideas.


                     TOPIC - oops, link
                     DATE - 19:44:02 9/03/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     try this 1

                                            Link: Pesticide Managment Education Program


                     TOPIC - more stuff
                     DATE - 15:17:00 9/03/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     Pesticide Managment Education Program Info from Cornell University. A great place to check out chemicals



                     TOPIC - Lurk, irish
                     DATE - 15:13:43 9/03/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     Lurkin I didn't have to repeat apps, but I'm pretty small. I'd say 2 shots 10 days apart(following thier reproductive
                     cycle) will do it. And no I never felt sorry, I've gone as far as to take a plant outdooors and hit it w/ wd40 and a
                     lighter...WHOOOSH! After all the trouble they gave Me...A lil immature revenge felt kinda good;)\
                     irish this site isn't the greatest, but I've gotten some help from it. Link below, happy hunting;)

                                                        Link: Insect info


                     TOPIC - sb...Vic
                     DATE - 03:40:54 9/03/99
                     FROM - irish
                     thanks, take your time, just off of vacation here. cleaning up after my babysitter...(don't even ask...LOL)

                     are those mites?

                     does that site have pics of other little pesties?

                     vic~did you receive some mail from me? a little prettier than those little bastards, i would hope.


                     TOPIC - Avid
                     DATE - 20:51:44 9/02/99
                     FROM - Lurkin
                     Geez Blazer, don't ya even feel a little sorry for the lil buggers?hehehe Mine should arrive in a day or so. How
                     often did you re-apply? Can't wait to feel sorry for 'em my self.


                     TOPIC - AVID
                     DATE - 19:55:21 9/02/99
                     FROM - Blazer
                     Lurkin, Abamectin, its the active ingriedient in Avid. The reason it only kills anything for a short period of time is
                     it's half-life is like 12 to 24 hours under lighted conditions or in that ballpark. IMO it has no systemic abilities and
                     as Vic mentioned, I can't see why it's controlled. After reading the below link, I lost most all fear of using it at any
                     point in the run. Now I no longer have any "subjects" to test on either thanks to Avid;) Once You get a lil...The
                     Borg is kinda a joke now after all the years of battling the bastards! I WON!

                                                   Link: Avid's active ingredient


                     TOPIC - new
                     DATE - 14:51:36 9/02/99
                     FROM - sac-man
                     How's it goin' guys?I'm new at this and would like to know what equiptment I should get for growing indoor. The
                     room is pretty small, and I would like to cut down on any smell. Is that possible? Also, what seeds should I start
                     out with? Any advice will be helpfull and apprecieted. Thanks, Sac-man


                     TOPIC - pests
                     DATE - 11:28:46 9/02/99
                     FROM - cedartop
                     had a friend years ago in florida who grew organically. he had 5 acres and worked his butt off and the local
                     farmers laughed at him all of the time. he never did make any money on his veggies but he sure put some good
                     grub on my table.

                     now i've got no idea if this works or not, but he was a firm believer in this method of controlling pests on his

                     he would hand pick the pests on his plants then kill the pests and make a foliar spray out of the the dead bugs.
                     he was convinced that the pests put out some kind of chemical warning to their buddies "we bees murdered so
                     dont come around". like i said i have no idea but he was convinced that it worked. his lack of sucess wasn't due
                     to his gardening skills, bad weather got him he ususally ended up with one crop out of three every year.

                     might try it next year on my veggie patch.


                     TOPIC - Avid
                     DATE - 07:04:54 9/02/99
                     FROM - Lurkin
                     Vic, in my search for a source for avid I found a paper written by someone from the Seattle rose society who said
                     the avid was only deadly to the bees for the first 24 hrs.
                     I'm guessing it's while the plant is still wet from the application of it. The link below is in No. Carolina and they'll
                     mail 2 oz. for about $17 plus postage. Seem like real nice folks. Geez, it's too bad all ye mites are gone and ya
                     can't 'sperment more..hehe. I guess ya'll just have to keep that pix above on yer frig so ya don't get lonesome.

                                                          Link: Avid


                     TOPIC - Anyone know this guy!!!
                     DATE - 18:17:36 8/31/99
                     FROM - Kyle
                     A friend of mine bought seeds from a guy on the east coast of Canada about one year ago. My friend says the
                     strain is Durban. Although he paid over one hundred dollars for the seeds my friend has got the most beautiful
                     uniform plants I have ever seen. Can anyone tell me how to get in touch with this guy and if he has an online
                     seedbank? Any posts will be appreciated.

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