BC Growers Association

BCG Chat Archives

May 15 - 31, 1999 Archives


TOPIC - Green Sand,Horticultural Charcoal
              DATE - 05:25:05 6/01/99
              FROM - Torog
              Howdy-does anyone know if these two elements are good to put in an
              organic based mix with SunShine Professional Growing mix-I bought
              them-might as well use it...thanks (ps growing indoors)


             TOPIC - Help ?
             DATE - 22:52:10 5/31/99
             FROM - Rob
             I have set up a contained grow closet about 3" Wide * 5" Tall * 2.5" Deep

             Need advice on short potent affordable seeds and lighting for the closet.

             The Strawberry blonde surprise and fighting cockarell both look good can
             anyone tell me the expected height and yild for both?


              TOPIC - crane
              DATE - 22:09:43 5/31/99
              FROM - Old Bud
              You can use the bulb in a pinch and get 1 grow out of it. Be carefull the stem
              (glass above the base) is not as strong as the u model so you need to add
              support at the end of the bulb. Use a piece of bare wire or shim stock and
              fasten to the hood in a saddle shape.
              Good luck


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 20:25:15 5/31/99
              FROM - t2
              vic thats right,they break down fast and to much can be caustic for sure


              TOPIC - fungus gnats / lights
              DATE - 19:46:54 5/31/99
              FROM - crane
              Thanks for the feedback, stupid mistakes both to have used
              the compost/manure/sunshine and to have tried to makeup for
              that with a half assed nicrowave steriliziation. I was in
              such a hurry to get those things started I thought I'd skip
              the usual procedure and start them in a regular mix. Ah
              well... live and learn.

              So can anyone tell me what's the problem with using a base
              up (BU) bulb in a horizontal fixture? I've got one here
              that's never been used and I'd like to pop it in if it won't
              be a problem. I don't care about the bulb life, but if it
              doesn't develop full intensity then I wouldn't want that.

              Vic- will pass along any reports on the malawi I hear for
              now. Still don't know if it'd work out in my garden, haven't
              spoken to anyone who's tried it in a similar setting yet,
              but unless I hear some tough luck stories I'll probably
              start some in the next month


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 16:15:44 5/31/99
             FROM - Vic High
             Mike - your best bet is to search the archives at Weedbase - General Indoor.
             Pay particular attention to the posts by SCW and Cha Cal. I think they are the
             local Scrog gurus.



              TOPIC - ScrOG - growing angel required
              DATE - 15:07:46 5/31/99
              FROM - Mike
              Have you ever grown this way?

              I would love to hear from you about how to get started, and maybe you could
              share a few 'worked' tips.

              I'd love to hear from you,



             TOPIC - fungas gnat predator (Hypoaspis)
             DATE - 13:55:58 5/31/99
             FROM - edhassle
             Vic thanks for the advice,I'll give them a try.Thanks! :)


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 12:45:12 5/31/99
             FROM - Vic High
             T2 - wood ashes would only be a short term fix like rapid lime, right? And
             have little buffering ability? Plus the more ashes, the higher the pH?

             edhassel, fungas gnat predator (Hypoaspis) will wipe out the fungas gnats
             and control the thrips at the same time. That is if the biologically derived
             chems don't work. :)


              TOPIC - citrus thrips problem
              DATE - 11:46:38 5/31/99
              FROM - edhassle
              I recently mixed up some of vic's super soil mix using a grow mix other than
              the pro-mix I usually use.I noticed a small thrip infestation on some 4wk old
              seedlings.Hoping to kill the little s.o.b's before the plants get any bigger I
              sprayed them with rotenone/pyrethum drenching the underside of the leafs
              the best I could.I,m still trying to figure out where they came from...could they
              have been in the non-soil mix consisting of mostly peat moss?,I had this
              same problem a few years ago when I used potting soil that was not
              sterlized and took me forever to get rid of the little bastards.I,ve been fighting
              a battle with fungus gnats also I,ve drenched the soil with gnatrol once and it
              seems to have killed the larve in soil,would this also kill any thrip eggs in the
              soil?.Any advice or suggestions are appreciated.


              TOPIC - ph up
              DATE - 10:29:46 5/31/99
              FROM - t2
              like lime,wood ashes are a fast way to raise ph and also add calcium and
              potash. i prefer to use it in my compost pile,because when manure is being
              composted,lime causes the release of nitrogen into the atmosphere in the
              form of ammonia which reduces the nitrogen available to organisms and


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 08:50:16 5/31/99
              FROM - Vic High
              Kenkeman - You do have a unique situation with your local. All I can suggest
              is find a farmer's outlet and ask them for what they use to nutralize soil
              acidity. I often hear mention of using finely ground oyster shells in place of
              dolomite lime (also called agricultural lime BTW). I know they supply Ca but
              am not certain of their pH buffering ability. I used to feed them to my chickens
              (hint :). Best is to talk to the locals, they will know what works in your area.
              Don't need to talk pot here, veggies will work, haha.

              Crane - got a few of the malawi myself. I won't be growing them for a while
              but would appreciate any you gather for when I do. As fro seedling problems,
              allI can offer is my methods. I just use plain old sunshine#1 for clones and
              seed starts. No ferts forat least about two weeks, except that I soak the
              medium overnight with 50 drops/gal solution of nutriboost. Preventing mold
              and insects is of primary concern at this stage for me so I don't screw
              around with my medium. Good to see you around, hope all else is well.

              Trelaway - it will depend on your growing style as to whether you will want to
              add anything. I would add dolomite lime though to prevent the peat
              breakdown causing the pH to drift downwards. Drainagewill be fine for this
              time of year. Adding a little perlite is nice for the colder months though, that is
              what sunshine #4 is, haha. Other than that it will just depend on how you are
              comfortable feeding your plants.

              Webby - it has been a while since our paths crossed, good to see ya. About
              that lime deal, I guess many misunderstood or jumped to conclusions as to
              what I was saying. I would never recommend recommend adding dolomite
              lime to an alkaline soil for nutritional reasons alone. That antagonist has
              been folowing me for a while and figured he found himself a soft tender spot
              to bite into, haha. It's interesting that in your area alone that the pH of your
              lime varies. Until this discussion was started I never even considered that
              limes from different regions would have different effects on our gardens. But
              it makes sense. I imagine the Mg to Ca ratio can have an effect (CaCO3 on
              it's own is quite caustic) as can various impurities. It was actually a good
              learning thread, too bad it had to be confrontational.

              Glad the romberry worked for ya. I tried to get my entire inventory of
              .75romulan/.25blueberry to california to some mutual friends of ours to pass
              around but as you know, shit happened and last I heard, only 1 was left.
              Hope it was a girl. If you liked the lemony/piney aroma/flavour these would
              have been much nicer than the romberry but many of them were also much
              stinkier. Ya guys think romberry stinks, haha, you wouldn't believe romulan.
              Definately a security risk though.


              TOPIC - Kenkeman
              DATE - 08:38:46 5/31/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi All, Kenkeman- Im glad to see you decided to give the Durban a go this
              time around, it should love the tropics! I was at the garden shop yesterday,
              saw a 100 year old 18" tall Bonsai Maple tree, I wanted it but 500$$$ hmmm.
              Hey Kenke 4lb bags of graunlar lime are only 2$, if you want I could post one
              or two your way, might be a good "Top Dressing" seeing how the Niagras
              are going allready,and you cant get it in your country, but it could be there in
              time for the rest. Let me know,one day when im in Panama, you can buy me
              dinner to return the favor. You should have a great holiday/harvest
              season;-))Also you may want to go a bit bigger, if you can on the pots for
              Rom x AF#1, af had a prolbem with rootbound stress with them (hermi).

              edhassle- glad to hear that they germed well, watch them carefully, af
              germed 4-beans 3 months ago 3 were fem, 2 of them made it to 12/12
              closet, one in a 2 gal pot 1 in a 5 gal pot, due to traffic clogs in the>

              Transfer interrupted!

              ng time, no prob for the gal in a 5 gal pot, but the 2 gal went herm, from being
              rootbound, there was a 1.5" mass of roots at the bottom of the pot, and she
              was real un-happy in the 80watt per sqft garden, but the one in 5 gal pot is at
              around 30days flower now and doing great, shes a bit less odordifious then
              her mom;-) her leaves are a bit smaller , but other than that the Romberry
              traits were dominate, a branch broke last week, giving af a early sample of
              27 day old bud, and its great allready.;-)



             TOPIC - A little report!
             DATE - 07:06:58 5/31/99
             FROM - Kenkeman
             Hello to all! Yesterday I finally got my project on the way. This is the status. I
             have 20 Niagaras that are about 5 inches tall planted in soil under 4 40watt
             floros. They will be there for another week so they get strong enough to place
             outdoors. I purchased a propagation tray and planted 3 Jack Flash F1 from
             Sensi, 10 Peak 19s, 5 Durban Poison, 3 Ingamar's Punch, 10 Romberys, 10
             Special Sativa from a friend, 5 Rom x Af1, 5 Jack Flash F2, and 3 Cali
             Orange. I will inform as to the germination results of all. They were place on
             top of the balasts so the heat can help.

             They also will be kept for two weeks under the floros and then they will all go
             outside in various locations. I have one small problem. I can not get dolomite
             lime where I am from and I might have problems with my ph. Any

             I will be planting in 3 gallon pots with a mixture of soil, vermiculite, perlite,
             worm castings and organic ferts.

             I will keep all posted as to my progress..

             Fumen motta y disfruten la vida!




              TOPIC - seed eaters / testing males via oil
              DATE - 06:28:23 5/31/99
              FROM - pi
              on the seed eaters, it sounds like fungas gggggnat larvae to me.

              have some males that are dry and some butane. will see if i can yield some
              righteous oil from these males and let yall know.


              TOPIC - crane
              DATE - 05:26:03 5/31/99
              FROM - 180
              crane, i thought i posted something before, but i guess it didn't get onto the
              board (posting while toasting):
              microwave ovens are notorious for uneven heating. 200 F in one spot, room
              temp in another. so that could be the prob, or if you left the soil for a bit before
              using it perhaps the fungus gnats paid a visit and laid some eggs.
              letting the sprouting mix sit around, wet and inactive, is also an invitation to
              pythium and other molds, so use it "fresh".

              in the outdoors, the plant produces huge amounts of seed, of which only a
              few survive. indoors, we have to create conditions that will insure survival of
              almost ALL the seedlings, so it pays to take every possible precaution...btw,
              those few that survive on their own outdoors are mostly NOT good smoke ;-)
              outdoor selective pressures don't give any preference to potency and flavor.


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 04:17:58 5/31/99
              FROM - oldtimer1
              Thanks Vic one for my archive I think. Ot1.


              TOPIC - seed eaters
              DATE - 14:36:17 5/30/99
              FROM - crane
              sb, 180 - thanks for the coments & condolences. Luckily
              those seeds weren't irreplaceble, just a piss off cause it
              bungs up my timing and planning. I've gotta learn not to
              count on my eggs before they hatch... or not before they
              shed the egg shell anyhow. ;-) I'm still curious about the
              identity of this unknown seed eater since I'd like to know
              where I went wrong - whether I failed to get the mix sterile
              or if the invaders got into the mix after. If anyone has any
              ideas I'd be interested to hear. You can post here or get me
              at the email above. Thanks guys...

              On an unrealated note, anyone grown doc greenthumbs malawi?
              I've never smoked a pure sativa, but it's enough to make
              your mouth water hearing about them. Curious to hear if it's
              a practical undertaking for a guy like me. (small garden,
              small budg


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 13:09:44 5/30/99
              FROM - trelaway
              A friend gave me a bail of sunshine #1 and after doing some web research
              can't decide whether to supplement...any thoughts?

              here's the site



              TOPIC - champague special germinate report
              DATE - 11:30:45 5/30/99
              FROM - edhassle
              Greetings all,Just a quick update I thought all of vic's specials got destroyed
              after my recent problems with Leo but I was looking in the refrigerator and
              must have over looked them!I germinated 20 with the paper towel method
              and 18 sprouted.there
              Also germinated 17 rom/afghan all 17 sprouted and appear very healthy
              Thanks Budm!

              Mighty mite I agree with all you said expect the part about urinating around
              your plants to keep deer away,I,ve been bowhunting for years and urine is
              urine I pee in a deer scrape and the deer can,t tell my pee from another
              deer,s.The deer are attractive to the urine don't do it around your plants.I,ve
              had good luck with bars of soap.


              TOPIC - something OT may be interested in
              DATE - 11:09:42 5/30/99
              FROM - Vic High

              J Pharm Pharmacol 1992 Dec;44(12):947-51

              Some features of Cannabis plants grown in the United Kingdom
              from seeds of known origin.

              Pitts JE, Neal JD, Gough TA

              Laboratory of the Government Chemist, Teddington, UK.

              The cannabinoid content of UK-grown plants (up to the 6th generation) from
              Moroccan, Sri Lankan and
              Zambian seedstock was determined by TLC, GLC and HPLC. All plants from
              the 5th and 6th series
              resembled their parents, and UK-grown plants were always much greener
              than those grown overseas.
              Cannabinoid content remained broadly typical of the source countries.
              However, tetrahydrocannabinolic
              acid (THCA) consistently predominated over tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) to a
              far greater extent than in
              the original plants; the THCA/THC ratio was 17 in UK-grown plants
              compared with 2.0 in the plants from
              the original areas. Two types of plant emerged from the Moroccan
              seedstock, one tending to increased
              cannabidiol (CBD), the other tending to zero levels of this component. The
              first generation Sri Lankan
              plants revealed one type of plant with an increased CBD/THC ratio (1.7
              compared with 0.11) but this
              returned to the original value in the succeeding generations. Other Sri
              Lankan plants had low or
              undetectable levels of CBD. Moroccan and Sri Lankan CBD-rich plants did
              not contain cannabichromene,
              although this cannabinoid was found in THC-rich plants. Zambian plants did
              not appear to show such a
              pattern. Zambian seedstock plants had total tetrahydrocannabivarin (diol and
              acid) levels greater than THC
              but the ratio was progressively reversed in succeeding generations. The
              study concludes that the ratios of
              particular cannabinoids is greatly influenced by the environment.

              PMID: 1361557, UI: 93108232


             TOPIC - Mighty Mite
             DATE - 11:04:37 5/30/99
             FROM - Johhny Greenleaf
             Hey Mighty Mite... Thanks for the outdoor tips!! Gonna do some set and forget
             outdoor style... I'm curious about the potency of your Mighty MiteXSkunk
             variety. I got some Dutch Mighty Mites from Marc Emery. Don't know what to
             expect from this strain... Any Input??? Thanks!!


              TOPIC - attention Budm
              DATE - 09:49:26 5/30/99
              FROM - phranklin
              About those "perfect containers..." Restauraunts get their mayo in bulk
              containers that might be just what you're looking for. They're 10" square and
              quite deep. Hope this is of some help. Peace.


             TOPIC - Larvae
             DATE - 08:14:49 5/30/99
             FROM - Mighty Mite
             180 : I had a simular problem with larvae last season too. However, my
             problem was in living soil, it was in styril peat moss pellets. I lost 3
             seedlings that season.

             Tips for the outdoors!

             I have picked up a few tips when growing outdoors to cure some of those
             pesky creatures:

             Dig your holes and put out your soil 1 week before putting out your plants. I
             used triple mix with a blend of dry kelp, bone & blood meal, and hydrated
             lime if need for PH. I find that skunks & racoons dig up the holes (going after
             the shit), but they only dig it up once (usually that night after you put it out).

             Deer problems? no problem. Put a bar of soap up in a tree around your site.
             Deer hate the smell of human soap, and will stay Long away from it.

             Insects. They usually attack your plant just after you put them out. come back
             a week - week and a half later, and hit them with bug dust if you see any
             damage, otherwise, leave them. I personally dont' like smoking bug dust! :)

             Piss around your site! This keeps all animals away, its a way of "marking
             your territory".

             Preventing rippers! Best advice is to keep your mouth shut! Don't tell anyone
             about it, because 1000's of dollars of weed is tempting for anyone to steal!
             The other advice is, don't leave a trail! Find a way to a spot with leaving little
             or no trail off the orginal trail, and branch off your trail in several directions
             keeping your true trail fairly hidden.. I tip toe into my spots, making sure not
             to knock over any vegetation. Picking your spot is also the key! The harder
             you work for your site, the harder it makes the ripper work for it. Rippers are
             lazy, and will not walk too far off the main trail, and sure as hell aren't going
             to go too far out of their way for plants they dont' even know they exist!

             Grow early strians! I have some mighty mite x skunk seeds that I have grown
             for 4 generatiosn now! They are of rudulas background which makes them
             flower after only 6-8 weeks of veg growth, then bud for 8 weeks. they are
             finished early - mid auguest, long before the rippers are out!



              TOPIC - liryygygygygygyrig67nlysoer
              DATE - 00:28:24 5/30/99
              FROM - ,jvhjf
              mg7g5suyj iugguhbdnv y cvh hy5dvujiof 8dkfu 7n+


              TOPIC - pots/plants,lime
              DATE - 19:25:47 5/29/99
              FROM - webfish
              Budm try going to a good quality nursery and asking them about used plastic
              pots ,I get them for 20cents 1 gal and 50 cents 2.5 gal,cheap and work

              Vic how are you??Its been a long time ,,,,the Romberry is exellent yields are
              above average and in the corners the best plant I have.. Her skunky
              lemony/berry flavor imressses most all who try it and potency is very nice and
              up.....Thanks,,,,, I havent seen you around much so I thought I'd drop by your
              "house" and see how you are doing,I did by chance catch the thread about
              Dolimite Lime ,,,,I dont have a PHD in hortoculture but as my work is with
              plants and have been doing it for over 15 years I would say I have a practical
              PHD he he my experiance with lime is that it makes a good neutrelizer (7.0)
              in water and makes R/O hold PH through time and fert additives,,,when used
              in organic soil with organic ferts ,also with buffered chem ferts but non PH'D
              ferts IE:miracle grow and schultz,it seems to break and go up ,,I have never
              used the particular brand you mention, and source does seem to matter it
              verys as much as .5 PH from different nursuries,,,,I have a top of the line
              Oakton,one decmil point pen but it is very consistant...Just my opinion on this
              deal....Email me some time so's we can chat..



              TOPIC - Surprise Results
              DATE - 16:37:13 5/29/99
              FROM - Moose
              I have had excellent results so far with RSB Surprise and the Romberry
              Surprise. I only wish the $100+ Dutch seedpacks of individual strains
              performed half as well! I am nearing week four with a number of perfectly
              stunning plants and have begun 12/12 for sexing. The Romberry plants are
              very diverse in appearence! They run the gamut from extremely sativa-esque
              phenotype to very stout, Blueberry dominant, bushes. I have tried to grow DP
              Blueberry in the recent past with very disappointing results so I am looking
              forward to the experience of that strain in a more productive plant.

              The two RSB Surprise plants I am working with are remarkably similar. They
              are slow-growing, unbushy, and unlike anything I have seen before. I love
              surprises so I am psyched to see what will eventuate.

              A note on the NCGA Primo mix whaich I purchased at the smar time as the
              Suprises for comparison's sake. I found these seeds to germinate well but
              many of the seedlings were excessively leggy. Of ten seeds, three plants
              were retained but two of them are very comely and when you rub the stems,
              you can already feel some oiliness and the aroma left on the fingers is
              promising indeed.

              I have germinated and grown out many packs of seeds over the last two
              years. So far, the Surprises have been the most rewarding to work with.
              Thanks for making them available at such a modest price. And for including
              twenty rather then ten seeds in each pack. This aspect of the deal provides
              tremendous advantage in the process of selecting superior mother plants
              and I appreciate the consideration.



              TOPIC - 180
              DATE - 14:02:19 5/29/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi all, 180 I know of those prepared institional/commerical food containers, I
              did not think about them for containers for gardining, thanks Ill keep my eyes
              open for some.

              A update, on the youngans
              RSB sups looking great still waiting on pre-flowers, have started alternating
              phylotaxy. One looks to have a possiable sat for a dad, long spaced nodes
              4-5" large leaves.Another in contrast is very tight node spacing a/b 1"
              and compact in size, I like the diversity, the outcomes will be intresting.

              P.75 sup also looking great at about 6 weeks, also waiting on sex

              Wash sup- One male showed. culled, waiting on the others, looks good,
              nice lat branching.

              L.S. sup, Just one but its the biggest seedling of the batch started 6 weeks
              ago, very healthy.

              PR- showed male, so was placed in flower closet to start on the road to
              pollen collection, waiting on the haze to pollinate it with.

              Peak19 F2s- Very dark leaves like Romberry, real vigerous, 1 female so far,
              they look very stable, not exactally what I expected, but 4 seedlings is hardly a
              good sampling.

              A great 3 day weekend to everyone;-)



             TOPIC -
             DATE - 10:56:47 5/29/99
             FROM - trelaway
             So, like many people I suppose, I started to grow cause I got sick of smoking
             uncleared bud that torched my throat. It's sad, I think, that BC has this global
             reputation for MJ but so much is grown by people who only do half the job.

             Sorry, just thought I'd bitch to people who'd understand it.

             I tried this new thing-a buddy had had to crop early fearing he'd discovered a
             rat in the midst. Hard as hell on the throat to smoke and it was all going to
             go to butter til I read you could boil harsh pot, redry it and it'd leach some of
             the bad stuff (Nitrogen, chlorophyll, I dunno just guessing).

             Anyway, I boiled some for ten minutes and broke it up to air dry (read: mold
             concern). Works great, comes out hard as hash but I'm baked off the shit
             right now and, tho not totally clear, definately smokeable.


             TOPIC - Budm
             DATE - 17:39:18 5/28/99
             FROM - 180
             Budm, the deli pails sb mentioned are what i use. square footprint (like
             10"x10"), come in several sizes but the most common seems to be the 3.5,
             about 13" high. you can easily cut and drill them to your spec. only problem
             is, unless you have access to restaurant kitchens, etc, it is hard to amass
             many of them (because of employees like me). also, you might want to try
             the heavy black plastic grow bags, they come in a 3 gal size.

             crane, bummer! hope you didn't lose too many seeds. i had the same
             problem once in the past, i actually caught the little translucent wigglers
             eating a seed. it was in a batch that i tried to sprout in "live" soil. mistake! i
             lost most of those seeds, and they were not replaceable. i decided after that
             to only use a store-bought sterile potting mix for germinating and cloning.
             haven't seen those f**kin' larvae since.



             TOPIC -
             DATE - 16:10:46 5/28/99
             FROM - sb
             I have 2 friends using rubbermaid style trashcans in the approx deminsions
             you specified with terrific results.Also check out the 3 gal square buckets
             used by deli's etc.
             I prefer growing plants to about 3sqft of canopy with my current setup so that
             3-4 plants fill my flowering area.As the footprint question is mute with this
             type of system I opted for 5 gal buckets.



              TOPIC -
              DATE - 14:23:25 5/28/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi all, Im I the only one that is alaways on the look out for better
              containers/pots? Im trying to find a tall pot thats about 3.5 gallons but is tall
              and has the "footprint" of a 2 gal pot. Does this sound like its the right idea, in
              a small garden IMO this might help in the rootbound stress
              area, and allow for more plants in the closet, of course yield would be
              increased, especially if one is trying to work with strains that have a low
              amount of branching.

              skinman- that describes how the sauce at "Wings and Things" in Ft
              Lauderdale works, kinda like "creeper wings". Thank you kindly for the offer;-)
              But id rather not impose on anyone. I just bought a couple of packs of wings,
              and we are going to put Subs recipe to the try this weekend, hotwings if ya
              like em, have a certain amount of time threshold that you go, and then wham
              you get a urge and you just got to have em. I guess alot of things are like that.

              A good weeekend and Memorial day to all;-)


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 12:01:27 5/28/99
              FROM - sb
              Good to see you're still around. The only time I've experienced the seed
              disaster scenario of which you speak, I found live, semi translucent, 1/4"
              long larvae dining on the roots and leaving nothing but empty seed husk.
              I was told to pour a weak diazinon solution through the soil so off I run to
              home depot for the diazinon. I made the mistake of buying a product with a
              "new improved" additive to make it stick to the folliage enhancing it's
              effectiveness. As it turns out the additive also sticks to roots and apparently
              suffocated the entire treated portion of the grow. Sorry I can't be of more help,
              but I haven't seen them since.

              Oh Yeah
              CONGRATS BRUDDAH! Talk about a life changer.haha


              TOPIC - sprout raiding motherf**ks!
              DATE - 11:11:12 5/28/99
              FROM - crane
              Hey guys... coming out of my cave this morning after a long
              absence from these chat boards to relate a mysterious
              situation in my garden. Hope somebody will know what the
              heck happened:

              Started 10 seeds a while back in a mix of potting soil
              (sunshine) and compost, mushroom manure etc. One seed has
              now become a healthy looking baby plant and another is
              raised up out of the soil and working to shed it's coat. A
              third sprout was just visible at the surface yesterday, a
              bit of white tap root sticking out next to it. Now here's
              the mystery: This morning I go to check on things and the
              first two plants are still there above the soil, but I can't
              see the sprout anymore. I poke around a bit, and sure enough
              - it's been eaten! The empty halfs of the seed coat are
              there in the dirt but no plant left. Now I panic. I poke
              around in the next seeds site... can't find it, and then I
              see half the seed coat! Sadly ALL the rest of the pots are
              the same, eight of ten seeds eaten by an unkown raider.

              When preparing the soil I mixed up the compost with the
              sunshine mix and then popped the filled starter pots in the
              microwave for 10 minutes on high. Checking the temperature
              with a candy thermometer, I saw they were getting up over
              200 degrees F, but perhaps that was only in the center and
              somewhere down at a bottom edge some nastys were still

              Does anybody know what type of creature might be responsible
              for this minor disaster? I saw no insects in the room...
              well, a few common flys had been sneeaking in there
              attracted by my nearby composter, but they wouldn't do this
              would they? I saw no live grubs or worms in the soil, though
              I did see some small cooked ones. I did find two little
              "pods" I couldn't identify, smaller than a lentil but
              similar in shape. Light brown/yellow. I squashed these
              rather than save them to see if they were the next
              generation of insects. They could have been plant matter
              from the compost too, I have no idea.

              Sorry to be so long, thanks


             TOPIC - Budm you have mail plus a question for anyone!
             DATE - 08:02:51 5/28/99
             FROM - Kenkeman
             Does anyone have any information concerning Ingmar's Punch? Plan to
             germinate seeds in 3 days...

             Fumen motta!


             TOPIC - Budm - Wing sauce
             DATE - 07:30:36 5/28/99
             FROM - Skinman
             Hey Brah, the one from the Jamaican gathering was called Skinman's
             Tomato Snakebite. If you like I'll give Sub a bottle to get to you, still got a few
             12oz. bottles left from the last batch. Took about 2 1/2 years and lots of
             research at Three Dollar Cafe in Atlanta to get it right. I based mine on their
             sauce and then pulled a Justan Wilson and Emril Lagasse maneuver
             (added more onion and garlic - among other things). If'n I was to recite the
             whole recipe it might be the longest post yet. Takes about two whole legal
             sheets (A4) of paper just to write out the process. The trick that I worked on
             was that the heat is cumulative. The first one tastes good and isn't really that
             hot, but by the fifth one your lips are numb and stopping means feeling the

             As Mel Brooks once said, "It's good to be the king!"
             Have a good and safe Memorial Day All!
             Skinman out.


              TOPIC - Happy Mem day
              DATE - 03:19:36 5/28/99
              FROM - Subcool
              Yo ho ho,
              So FYI I think freezing the materia makes impurities in the oil it seems darker
              with this method. Think insulating the pvc is plenty of control. Skin maybe
              even try a shorter version the idea is for the butane to be in contact for only a
              brief time.
              BTW not as fancy but some like my sause as much as skins heres the
              Sub proven 1 hour sause
              1 large bottle Texas pete hot sause
              1/2 stick butter
              2-5 tablespoons brown sugar according to how sweet ya like ya wings
              assorted seasonings mailnly pepper and garlic
              melt butter add hot sause and rest simmer slowly for about a hour
              keep slightly warm
              fry wing fast and crispy dump into a mixing bowl cover with sause and stir
              em around...chow down :)
              Also works great with fried shrimp.
              see ya'll tuesday


             TOPIC - 123
             DATE - 21:18:28 5/27/99
             FROM - ~shabang~


              TOPIC - sorry for 2x posting
              DATE - 16:54:07 5/27/99
              FROM - Budm
              Thats "barter" material. sorry.


              TOPIC - "Chat" at hempqc.com
              DATE - 16:52:06 5/27/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi all, I have not been to heavens stairway site in a while,
              RC the "split window" at the chat button betwween BCGA & NCGA, is great. Ill
              be acccessing from here more often! PH/Dolo Lime are the du'jour at NCGA
              these days I see.

              OT1- Did you get my mail?
              Who makes that kick butt wing sauce? I have some batter material, if your
              intrested? The wife loves those wings.



             TOPIC - pi, brill idea
             DATE - 16:50:32 5/27/99
             FROM - 180
             pi, excellent idea. it might be difficult to quantify the results uniformly (different
             weights and composition of material in diff batches), but it would be a cool
             way to judge the resin content of selected males if you could control it well
             enough. i refuse to smoke them or subject my friends to the same, so i'm
             limited, just judge by stature, aroma, resin production, flower production,
             earliness, etc.

             skinman, thanks for the details, you've almost got me wanting to do this crazy
             thing :-)


              TOPIC - picking a male
              DATE - 15:13:23 5/27/99
              FROM - pi
              i had a thought re: picking a male for breeding purposes

              Many look at the physical characteristics only when picking a male for
              breeding purposes, while others also smoke the male ... yuck.

              my thought is that the oil extraction method can now be used to judge males
              for potency without having to smoke stanky leaves. i have a few recently
              culled males in the trash. i an gonna dry the leaves and make oil from each
              to see 1) if this works for males 2)if there is a difference between males.

              sure would be nice to find out if this works for males as well. i will keep
              everyone posted.


             TOPIC - thanks ontariodude!
             DATE - 14:01:36 5/27/99
             FROM - kenkeman
             Although ostrich meat contains virtually no cholesterol they can be mean
             birds which are in fact quite strong...




              TOPIC -
              DATE - 13:48:55 5/27/99
              FROM - OntarioDude
              IMO - In My Opinion



             TOPIC - Budm! You have mail!
             DATE - 13:19:24 5/27/99
             FROM - Kenkeman
             What does IMO mean? I take it that it does not mean "I Manhandle
             Ostriches" or does it?

             Fumen mucha motta!


              TOPIC - Oily thoughts
              DATE - 12:23:37 5/27/99
              FROM - Skinman
              My first spur-of-the-moment attempt at the oil extraction method was in one
              of those small plastic Gatorade "sport" bottles with the nozzle on the end.
              Sub and I found that the chamber was too large and that the liquid form of
              the solvent evaporated too quickly, maybe 9 0z. butane can was too small for
              that size bottle. We did get a decent sized glob with that method, but you
              could see where much of the oil was still in the container. A coupla days later
              we tried a 1" peice of PVC 14" long with a pyrex glass flat bottomed container
              to catch the liguid as it exits the tube. One end cap has 3 holes for drainage,
              the other a small hole completely through for gas which is flared to fit the
              nozzle of a 2.5 oz Ronsonol Butane can. This size and brand are just local to
              my area, just make sure it isn't BernzOmatic or another brand containing
              Capstan oil. You can easily tell by squirting the can quickly, if it smells like
              propane or rotten eggs it's got Capstan oil in it and will taint your final
              product. The flared hole is nice since it seriously reduces blowback when
              pressure mounts in the PVC cylinder. The amazing thing was that I got twice
              the amount from my first attempt and I used the same "schwag" from the
              sport bottle. Here's another kicker, I was running low yesterday and still had
              a tube full of schwag which I had already run once. Well I figured it couldn't
              hurt to try and run another 2.5 oz. can through there. Lo and behold I got
              about 2/3s the amount of the original run! Wish I'd saved all the batches I'd
              dumped before!

              I think the serious reduction in gas usage and increase in yield has to be
              due to the chamber size itself. With a smaller diameter and longer length the
              liguid solvent must travel thru the schwag longer and therefore extracts more
              goodies. Since we placed foam insulation on the outside of the tube,
              ambient temperature was not so much a factor as before, and therefore the
              solvent stayed in liguid form longer. Also due to it's small size It's just too
              convienient to place the filled tube into the freezer to further lower the
              temperature before extraction.

              As pointed out by Curious George, and rightly so, this is a very volitile method
              of extraction so NEVER use metal, smoke nearby, or attempt this method
              indoors. As someone who has experienced 2nd and 3rd degree burns on
              both legs from the knees down, I don't recommend plating with volitile
              substances unless you are certain of your abilities and confident in your
              precautions. Hell I can't even hear about burn victims with out memories of
              my experiences making me "verklempt"!

              That being said enjoy and I hope these experiences shed some light or at
              the very least add to the knowledge base as a whole. As a friend once said
              to me, Peace, Love and Donny Osmond. The more I think about it the more I
              worry about that dude, he, he, he.


             TOPIC - Vic, Blazer, Skinman & Pi ... & all
             DATE - 06:57:45 5/27/99
             FROM - Curious George
             I did go over the top with the anatomical reference and insults in that initial
             "butane exrtraction" rant ... . Sorry 'bout that ... but by way of explanation, there
             was a warning notice years ago about how an ordinary butane lighter
             contains the same explosive power as a stick of dynamite ... and in at least
             one instance, it blew off a welders arm when sparks flew into his shirt pocket
             and set off a leaky lighter. That's scary.

             Maybe I'm just old and cranky, but I've seen too many people screw up
             backyard chemistry to be comfortable with that extraction scheme. We're
             talking college educated math and science majors who should have know
             better ... and if they can screw it up, ( like setting a cabin on fire ) the potential
             for serious injury will always be present.

             The conventions of web posting etiquette are new to me as well ... ( was
             dragged kicking and screaming into the information age ) and that was one
             of the first times I'd posted something anywhere, on any subject.

             Thanks for the genetic offer Blaze, perhaps some time way down the road ...
             at this point it's not a realistic bit ... my paranoia level is quite high for one
             thing ... . Having been on the "front lines" for decades, I've been retired from
             active involvement for quite a while. I'm way behind the curve since everything
             was outdoors then, as opposed to the situation now. Back in the pioneer
             days, we'd think nothing of driving long distances to remote areas and
             spending days camping out in the field. No time or energy for that stuff now.

             I hope to be able to offer some suggestions and positive feedback in future
             posts, and will refrain from discussing politics or religion.

             There is a possibility that I might make a brief visit to the Vancouver area next
             month, as a side trip from a visit to Seattle, and would be interested in
             knowing both what to check out, and especially what to avoid, while in the
             Any suggestions would be welcome.

             Take care


              TOPIC - BrteLite Areponics
              DATE - 03:30:32 5/27/99
              FROM - OntarioDude
              Loop_hole - I guess the size (5x10) gives it away. You are right it is the
              Brite-Lite unit. Its awsome!! The best purchase I have made to date, pricy but
              very nice. I actually bought the 10 x 10 however I only have half of it set up
              since anything beyond 2 x 1000W pushes my fuse box. I will do some
              re-wiring soon and put the whole thing to use.

              The only pain was setting the damn thing up. Very nasty! Maybe my problem
              was that I was a bit too hasty to see it run. Like any good setup, take your
              time, spend twice as much effort setting it up and you will have hassel free
              service. Remember the thing runs at 24PSI if something is not too tight...
              well you get the point. Especially if you can imagine a nice jet of solution
              hitting one of your bulbs. One dripper came out during my first hasty install -
              it stripped the plaster off the ceiling - NO JOKE!

              For a few days I was convinced I bought a lemon. I was just waiting for
              something to pop loose. Checked my room like every 5 min. But since I
              re-assembled it using a ton of silicone tape and tightening everything
              maticulously it has not even wispered a drop. Its been 4 months now.

              You just have to remember to clean the filter every so often, and once in a
              while a spayer will clog (on average... 1/25 sprayers per crop). They only cost
              about 30 cents at a plumbing wholesaler so that is not that much of a pain.

              The jetpump is loud, but not as loud as the acutal spraying of all the sites...
              and then drip drip drip. Luckily I live alone in a big house. The visitors don't
              seem to notice it - I do. I guess it comparable to the noise of a furnace going
              on and off.

              Also, since it sits 2 feet of the ground you have no choice but to SOG or train,
              but if you are growing seriously you are SOG'ing anyway.

              I have my set on 7min on 45sec off. The pump sucks 800 watts so that is
              3/28 * 800W = 85W on top of your lights and fans.

              Very, very, very fast. I was astonished actually. The plants are very vibrant -
              and it almost seems like you can do nothing wrong.

              If you plan on setting one up - invest in a nice tarp first. As you will need to
              check the sprayers once every week and the best way to do that is to pull
              them out quick and pop them back in.

              -= OntarioDude =-


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 23:39:09 5/26/99
             FROM - greenbear
             High all still alive and kicking(and screaming)! Vic one .75 Romulan has
             survived(of course
             everything our friend had is gone) and it is slowly making a comeback.
             180 one Genuis has overcome what killed the others(to much of everything
             to fast) and is also
             growing well.After readind about you method below the next cuts might have
             a chance!


              TOPIC - Neville's Haze
              DATE - 20:38:30 5/26/99
              FROM - 67ed
              Well, it's finished, and the smoke is excellent. I only had three small females,
              the tallest, 26 inches. I got maybe a little over an ounce. The high is the
              closest I've come to that magical south mexican I once had; about like the
              Gold 'Bo I smoked too. The way I had to grow it, doing a rush job, I wondered
              if it would be any good at all. It exceeded my expectations! Very up, and
              soaring high that grows on you for about 15 minutes till it reaches a peak.
              Some paranoia, but you're so happy, it doesn't matter. The way my personal
              life is going, I don't know if I'll be able to grow, or even smoke, much longer,
              but if I do grow, this will be the first on my list to do. So far, I've only smoked
              buds that were dried on a frying pan for 3 minutes. Even then, it was so
              sweet and smooth. The description said to start on 12/12, and the first will
              be done in 14 weeks. Well, I let mine veg for a few weeks before switching,
              and the best female finished in 12 weeks, but I had them on 11 hrs light/13
              hours dark. All of the plant ripened fairly evenly, and all the buds were done
              about the same time. The other two females are a little later.


              TOPIC - sub, pi, blaz, kenkeman, everyone!
              DATE - 19:37:49 5/26/99
              FROM - 180
              sub, good to see you bro! hope leo isn't screwing with you too much :-((( our
              legal system is an expensive farce. (shudder) is right!

              pi, the problem is not in your set, we are coming to you from the outer limits!

              blaz, you bet! btw, you have mail at your cranky england.com acct. have fun
              on your getaway, i'm looking fwd to a bit o' that myself. my back hurts, and
              work sucks!

              kenkeman, it sounds like a lovely garden! i saw tom ze' last week and you
              just reminded me of him. :-)



              TOPIC - All good things
              DATE - 19:04:17 5/26/99
              FROM - Subcool
              George I to get a bit heavy defending my right to induldge :) I did think about
              some dumbass blowing him self up but thats how god sorts out the good
              Skinman great to see ya brah, Bet ya'll didn't know he had to be held upright
              in Jamaca to finish cooking after the cookies from hell. hehe Hes a great guy
              and about smart as hell so hes a nice addition I hope.
              Blazer great to see ya active on the boards dude.
              180 DOOOOOOOOd always good to hear from ya maybe we can get together
              after my summer sales rush on A/c's
              I miss my farm so much guys watch your ass cause its hell looking back.The
              government weed (kinda like gov cheese but not as tasty) is deplorable the
              taste is like .. well shit and I notice the mental inspirations I used to get from
              the great sativas are gone no wonder the average joe has stereo typed
              tokers I think its evil brick zombie weed.
              I do enjoy the nugs I do see now so thats one thing. I still live in fear of my
              country and will figure out something soon.
              I'm concidering Canada or Amsterdam both legally but its tough to give up
              the killer job I have I'd like to think i could earn a living anywhere in sales but
              differant contries might not concider a hyper southern guy the best choice so
              who knows.
              Time to rant theres so many things availible on the net we can do.
              thers a group called FAM online that has a great site devoted to reducing
              minimums. Let me tell you Jail sux and its no place for any of the fine people
              I've met personlly in here. Jail is a total waste of brain power and theres lots
              of people rotting with no help.
              I was lucky without friends in here my stay would have been alot longer and
              I'll never forget what my "Stoner" brothers did for me. Please try and write or
              call or do something everyday for the POW's in the hole. The boloney is
              nothing you can imagine (shudders) and its all a joke to the gov they earn a
              profit(prisons) to keep you locked up.
              Anyway thats my dimes worth today .

              Peace Subcool


             TOPIC - about uv...
             DATE - 16:49:43 5/26/99
             FROM - phranklin
             Hi. Was wondering if any of you had read the High Times article by Owl in
             which he discusses uv lighting via Mercury Vapor lamps? Seemed to have
             some info related to some of the discussion here. Hope this proves useful.


              TOPIC - Curious George
              DATE - 16:37:48 5/26/99
              FROM - pi
              nice to meet you to. heh

              in case you didnt know i am the orignal asshole poster at this site and a
              recent moron tooo ,,, well according to you anyway. heh

              i agree with you 100% about children and the i-net. i also feel that children
              should not do drugs or any other adult-only activities (ie sex).

              i,myself am a 51 yo engineer and many here are in there 30's and 40's and
              sucessfull. we also have some fine whippersnappers in there 20's that are
              sharpe. point being that this is no CannKid.com and it is off the beaten track
              enough to remain cosey and informative. i posted that process here not at

              the problem is not with the net or drugs or or or or ... it is with the parents
              who let there children's friends/tv exposure/pc exposure mold the child. ever
              heard the word 'latchkey'? the parent is resonsible for his children's


              sorry for the rant but i have not been able to post and defend myself from
              YOUR rant hehehe.

              nice to meet you otherwise



              TOPIC - VicHigh
              DATE - 16:11:34 5/26/99
              FROM - pi
              hey dude i can post again
              i have changed nothing on my pc
              i tried with and without lpwa last week and it made no diff

              just now while lurking, i had a thought that maybe it was the total # of
              characters in the field that made the diff

              don't know what happened but i can post now ?????????????

              I did note one diff however

              can't post .....the 'subject' font changes and becomes less bold as compared
              to the 'name' font.

              can post........the 'subject' font is the same font as the 'name' font


              any opinions?



              TOPIC - test
              DATE - 16:00:44 5/26/99
              FROM - pi


              TOPIC - test
              DATE - 15:59:59 5/26/99
              FROM - pi......



             TOPIC - UVb, H2o, and Ak-47
             DATE - 14:52:37 5/26/99
             FROM - Loop_hole
             Vic- UVb fs-40 #flu2110 4 foot tubes. About $120 can bucks each. Thereís
             also a 300 watt self ballast MV that has smokin UV output for about $80. The
             MV is good for an 8í x 8í x 8í reptile cage. My light guy says the reptile tubes
             you buy at the pet store are crap.

             OntarioDude- Iíll let you know how the Agri-cool works out. Have some sitting
             in front of me right now; should have them hooked up next week. From what
             Iíve seen and the people Iíve talked to, Iíve put my own money down. If your
             not in a hurry, I let you know for sure in a month or two. You said you have a 5
             X 10 aero. Is the Brite ñlite set up? Howís it working?

             Blazer- more detail on the AK if you donít mind. Branchy? Time? Stretch? Etc.



              TOPIC - Diatomaceous Earth
              DATE - 11:45:51 5/26/99
              FROM - Moose
              It is used to kill slugs.


             TOPIC - Chemo
             DATE - 11:05:22 5/26/99
             FROM - Blazer
             Chemo I sent You an email and wondered if You got it yet? Heads up buddy
             and get w/ Me when You can.



              TOPIC - 180, DrA, OntarioDude
              DATE - 11:02:10 5/26/99
              FROM - Blazer
              180 This batch came from Serious Seeds in 96' or 97'. I'll be cloning on her
              again soon so If Ya like...Just ask. You know Me Brudda;). God after seeing
              that post I'm dizzy! Glad I do hydro!
              *DrA My understanding on the butane not giving more yield via multiple
              pourings is that it's solvent capabilities are spent in the 1st bottle. I
              approached a chemist friend and that's His conclusion too. I don't see any
              benefit from extended boiling or contact w/ the leaf at all IMO, I think it's done
              as soon as it's made contact. But I say try it! I've been proven wrong soo
              many times as have most of Us I'm sure. BTW boiling point of butane is 11
              degrees F. so refridgeration/freezer will stop the boil completely as hot h2o
              speeds it up. I thought I better toss that in too.
              *Ontario I have yet to hear anything but horror stories w/ the h2o cooled lights
              so far. This isn't 1st hand knowledge though, so they maybe the shit by now.
              The last story I heard was almost a year ago so maybe they have the kinks
              worked out. I'll stick w/ a/c hoods for now.

              Well I'm tearing down and snipping like mad. I need to be on the Hiway in the
              am for a week at the lake! WOOHOO I need it! Pray for nice weather and You
              all enjoy Your weekend too.
              Blazing On


              TOPIC - d earth
              DATE - 10:03:56 5/26/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi all, I was at the nursery, and on the shelf with the castings, gaunos, and
              other soil admendments was a new product to me, its 'diatomaceous earth'
              id like to know what this can be used for as far as container gardening is
              concerned. This is not the first time Ive been expossed to this material, Ive
              used it in my mini-reef salt water tank, in a micron cartrige filter, to fine filter
              polish the water, and it works well, my clown fish appeared to be floating in
              air, the water was so clean. Both of these hobbys are so alike in many ways,
              besides all of the "husbandry chores" involved, there is a attatchment to the
              marine community residents, just like the girls, Ive found myself saying "Im
              sorry" to them when I in-advertainly feel Ive hurt them in some way. They
              really become a part of ones life. In mj gardening, moms can live for so long,
              that they transend the gardner/plant relaitionship, and move on to a "loved
              pet" type of relaitionship, maybe more like a thorobread racehorse thing. Ive
              had a Pink Skunk Clown Fish now for 7 years, a 3-spot Hawaian Humbug
              Damsel, for 6 years, even the names are like the strains. The hobbys are
              both great, its neat having a piece of a S Pacific reef in your livingroom, the
              comunity- pecking order of interaction, can command my attention for hours,
              while I partake of the fruits of the other hobby;-)) SFTOTP.



             TOPIC - Thanks to all!
             DATE - 08:50:01 5/26/99
             FROM - Kenkeman
             Hey Guys!

             Thanks to all! I had a son of friday! Pretty intense experience. I celebrated
             roasting a huge fatty of some frozen PR. It was really nice.

             I just started my initial crop with 20 Niagara seedlings which will be grown
             outside. They are about 8 days old and growing very nicely. Most are 4 to 5
             inches tall. I will wait another week and then they go outside in 5 gallon pots.
             Soon after that I intend to germinate romberys, ingmars punch, jack flash,
             durban poison, Peak 19's, a ultra special sativa with no name, and a couple
             of others. All will be grown outdoors in a tropical climate.

             Once again thanks to all!

             Fumen mucho motta y celebren diariamente que viven!!!
             (Smoke lots of herb and celebrate daily the fact that we live!)




              TOPIC -
              DATE - 04:11:51 5/26/99
              FROM - shazing
              Hey all
              A certain Dutch breeder(living in Holland) told me that the new law passed
              against breeding for seed is aimed at large scale Commercial growers who
              have in the past let some of their crop go to seed so as to avoid being
              busted for cultivation for supply and that this law will not affect the genuine
              seed breeder
              He said that it all comes down to interpretation of the law by police ,which is
              apparently a positive factor in Holland(meaning that he expects the police to
              follow the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law)
              He was unconcerned anyway

              only time will tell....



              TOPIC - headspins......
              DATE - 03:59:26 5/26/99
              FROM - headspin
              This place is getting waaaay tooooo busy to read these days................
              I think I will have to go and lay down


              TOPIC - Agricool Lights (the ones cooled by water)
              DATE - 01:29:02 5/26/99
              FROM - OntarioDude
              Has anyone used the Agricool Lights? I'm thinking of of outfitting my room
              with them. Especially now that summer is sneaking up on us.

              First time that I saw them I thought of them more as a gimick than anything
              worthwile. But my Hydro supply place had one on display and it seemed to
              live up to its reputation (mind u its easy to say that when you see them for 30
              minutes - and don't have a chance to work with them). They kept
              re-curculating the same water in a 20 gallon container. The watter was
              hot-tub warm and the man said that it had been running for 4 hours.

              The lummens are probably cut by 15% but the cool thing is that you can
              actually touch them, and bring them a lot closer to the plants to offset the
              loss. He also suggested getting a 50 gallon freezer and using that as the
              cooling device since I mentioned I probably needed 4 of them (I should just
              keep my mouth shut sometimes - chi-ching). The price is not that bad $330
              CDN / 1000W (with evrything except the ballast).

              The thing that makes them so apetizing to me is the ability to use verry little
              ventilation and lots of CO2! Booaahahahah!!!

              Any1 work with these things? Because, I fear I may make a impulsive
              (maybe explosive) decission. I'm sure the last thing the guy at the Hydro
              Store will say is "Dude, don't waste your time I love having stacks of these
              things piled up in my inventory room"


              ps. these are the second generation ones.

                          Link: Check this link out www.agri-cool.com


              TOPIC - ontario thrips
              DATE - 00:58:59 5/26/99
              FROM - OntarioDude
              Vic - Thanks for the response. My plants ar just starting to bud - so
              pesticides are out of the question, however I have taken your advice and
              ordered some predators. As for the nastiness of BC THRIPS compared to
              the Ontario ones: I would imagine that the Ontario ones are fatter, lack
              manners, have a faster pace of life and are not very social to other thrips... all
              kidding aside, I have also purchased some "Chrysanthenum Flowers
              Insecticide Spray" its seems to be a natural inscticide that will not be as toxic
              (and probably not as effective - but will give me some measure of control
              until my little beasts arrive).

              Ganjahmel - thanks for the info on the freeze. Wonder why this strain is not
              being caried by any of the seed houses. It leaves those who smoke it
              searching for their last thought. Very popular. I usaually hear "What the hell
              did you give me?", I duck... but soon realize its ment as a compliment. A very
              nice outie...




             TOPIC - Yeah I know
             DATE - 00:03:32 5/26/99
             FROM - Skinman
             Story of my life my brother, always a day late and a dollar short. Hope to be
             more timely in the future but I had to get it out while I was enjoying the fruits
             of my labor. Be ready for all the silly question of the pleb in the future and if
             you send me an email will send a jar of my wing sauce and instuctions for
             the type of wing which will rip your head off. Took a few years to get right but
             Sub and the others I catered for will attest to the quality. Since that is my best
             expertise at the moment I offer what I have humbly. To all a good life.

             Skinman out, but never down!


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 23:51:39 5/25/99
              FROM - oldtimer1
              KenKeman congratulations!

              Budm nada no mail in the in box!

              All the best Ot1


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 22:32:13 5/25/99
             FROM - KQ
             DrA, I have a hunch that the limited power of the butane to extract has to do
             with it's temperature, which is cold. If the gatorade bottle were a steel pipe
             that you could seal up real good, then you could bring the whole thing to
             room temp. to enhance the extract. I do not think it would blow up as those
             flimsy cans it comes in has no problems. Then after maybe a day of soaking
             at room temp, throw it in the freezer overnite, next morning pour off the juice
             and see if that is any better. Any thoughts on this Blazer? (I know, I know,
             Blazer cannot wait a whole day!)


              TOPIC - this & that
              DATE - 22:27:25 5/25/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi all,

              Karen- af has had great results with the "BCGA(Vics)Super Soil" reciepe, you
              can find the mixing instructions at this disscussion sites "home page"
              BCGA, there are a couple of verations there to consider, af basically followed
              "Vics" method with the addition of wormcastings. HTH

              67ed- good news ;-)

              OT1- Goodmorning friend, if ya dident allready, mailcall. Have a great day ;-))

              Blazer- af sent me a taste of his AK moma, and up till now all I had tried was
              some F2AK, and man Im there with ya on it! It rocks, just loved it;-)

              Kenkeman- A very big congrats Indeed!!!;-)))))) Ive got my cigar ;-)

              Blaze/180/skinman/OntDude- I look foward to yall posting, as I feel you all
              have much knowledge to offer, and IMHO have brought some good vibes to
              the board, from me welcome;-)




              TOPIC - questions
              DATE - 22:05:29 5/25/99
              FROM - old hand
              does calcium carbonate crystals,on the plant,being a base have any effect
              on rapidity of onset,or rush effect of buzz
              is there any way to increase calcium carbonate production?
              something i dont see mentioned is microclimate,anybody playing?climate of
              room should effect end product.to recreate old strains,proper climate would
              be a plus,also dirt,weather,cultural practices,stresses,ect.genetics change
              over time to match conditions.summer room weather reports?i know the sun
              shines every day,somewhere.microclimatoligists all


              TOPIC - cooking with gas
              DATE - 20:52:29 5/25/99
              FROM - drA
              old news already, but (budm, irish, kenkeman, et.al) that's not MY laboratory
              in the link way below.

              blaze, i tried the gatorade bottles for oil and prefer them to the pvc, for the
              exact reason that you can see what's going on! my observations also are that
              yield does not increase with length of time spent in the butane solvent
              although i'm surprised to hear that it doesn't get any better if you pour it off
              into another container of shake. i would be interested to hear of your plans
              for the ozone generator that you made, post 'em here or eme.

              180, nice post on giving clones a good start in life. i'm looking forward to
              applying these techniques and adding my own .02 soon, went
              light-shopping today, relying on the outdoors has become too much of a
              gamble for me!


             TOPIC - Clonin' around! / 180
             DATE - 20:29:58 5/25/99
             FROM - Perpetual Harvest
             Good message 180...
             On cloning contraptions, I of course use the ol' bubblin' bucket (see
             numerous threads @ WB), and though I've bare stem rooted occasionally,
             the ol' rig is used mostly with mini peat cups filled with V&P, they dangle in
             the effervecence (Bubbles) of the upper 1½", I get better results(%) with this
             than bare stem, this to me is a most effective, pro-active way to root cuttings
             (and if ya stickem' IN something? you improve etiolation). It's all about
             aeration, one way or another. As soon as the lil' white tips "pop" out of the
             sides and bottom of the drenched peat cup (about 5-10 days), I set this
             VERY STABLE "rooted cup" right down in it's transplant container of my
             favorite mediums. Best of both worlds? No?
             Peace, ph

             P.S...the civility below is absoulutly refreshing!

             Clone Forth and Multiply!


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 20:21:33 5/25/99
              FROM - 67ed
              They're done enough now! email me so we can do it.


              TOPIC - i thot it wuz a kow! pulling clones upward
              DATE - 18:57:48 5/25/99
              FROM - 180
              there's also a dairy cow called a friesland...

              skinman, i've been hearing about you and your cooking for sooo long, good
              to finally see you in print. you were a little late on that rant-response, but what
              the hell. say hi to the wild man for me, and best of luck in your endeavors!

              blazz, a mutual friend of ours says the AK was the best thing in his garden
              last time around. makes me wanna give it a try. what was your seed source,
              if i may ask? btw, i got 4 fems out of that 4way cross of yours, all cloned up
              and just waiting in line to flower. starting from...
              G13 - indica (?)
              NL - mostly indica
              BB - mostly indica, indi-sat (?)
              WW - sat-indi
              ...with parental traits an unknown, who knows how this one will turn out????

              notes from the clone box:
              i avoid all forms of bare-root cloning, because they require a traumatic initial
              transplant to medium, after the roots have appeared. imho, the extra time &
              energy it takes the plant to get established in the medium once you
              transplant it negates any time saving you might have achieved with the
              high-speed bare-rooting method (aerotubs, aquaria, rainforests and
              i prefer to use a medium that holds together when moist, so that you don't
              have the rootball falling apart while you transplant. so i've rejected the
              various combinations of perlite, vermiculite, and castings, because they
              were too loose. i settled on a seed germinating mix of finely milled peat
              moss with lime, verm and wetting agent. this mix has the additional
              advantage of having no fert (N) content, allowing me to control the clones'
              nutrition more closely. imho castings provide too much N for a good rooting

              it can be a challenge to get clones vegged up to a good size for flowering,
              with a well-established root system in place to support large flower
              production, if you're constrained by time, space, electricity, etc. and imho
              there's no bigger waste or disappointment in indoor growing than getting a
              wimpy yield of small buds because the clones were not well-enough
              established before they were flowered. it takes a good sized potful of roots to
              feed the best buds.
              for this reason i have brainstormed and tried many methods to accelerate
              clone growth and increase root growth and vigor.
              the technique i'm working with right now is kind of a push-and-pull strategy. i
              try to alternately drench and dry the medium, with a multi-day watering cycle,
              while at the same time alternating foliar treatments with waterings.

              to illustrate; suppose i take a rooted clone that's just been transplanted to a
              larger pot. all the roots are in the tiny volume of soil from the previous pot,
              and the rest of the soil is semi-dormant, with low chemical and microbial
              activity. so the first thing is to water the clone into the new pot with a bunch of
              root and growth stimulants.
              a mild tea mix might contain superthrive, Roots organic (humic supplement),
              fish-based bloom formula, just a bit of extra available N in the form of a
              high-N fish fert, EJ catalyst, and "whatever the cat drug in" (very low dilutions
              of kelp, molasses, castings, etc). this is a thorough soaking, after which the
              plant is allowed to dry out for several days. of course the first part of the soil
              to dry out will be the little part that's full of thirsty roots, and that's fine,
              because then they will grow outward into the new medium that's still moist.

              to further stimulate root development, the soil should be kept warm, and
              ventilation should be good so that aeration is also good. the plant should
              also be given foliar treatments. foliar applications of growth stimulants such
              as superthrive, kelp meal tea (or maxicrop or equivalent product), EJ catalyst,
              fish-ferts help fire up the plant's metabolic processes in the leaves and
              stems, compelling the roots to do the same.
              i think it also helps to have a good amount of nitrogen incorporated the
              transplanting medium, rather than watering on alot of N right from the start. if
              you water it on, the plant doesn't have to send out roots looking for it, so
              better to put it into the soil and let the roots have a "scavenger hunt" for the N,
              aided by the other things you are feeding them.

              it always seems to me that the above-ground part of the plant sort of takes
              care of itself, whereas the really crucial stuff is happening below the soil line.
              my problems with yield didn't come from small plants, they came from small
              roots. btw, i love my 2 gallon pots :-)

              sorry for the length of the post, wanted to give the full view (so far :-))


              TOPIC - Freezeland
              DATE - 16:34:35 5/25/99
              FROM - Ganjahmel
              Ontario Dude~ I believe I read in a friends old SSSC Catalog about your
              Frieseland. It was called Frieseland Indica and (if my memory serves me
              write) it was described as an early-maturing, branchy, high-yielder. I think it
              was probly developed outdoors in Frieseland, which is in the nothern part of
              the Netherlands, that would be why it is so prevelent at your northern latitude.


              TOPIC - CG 20:11:43 5/23/99 rant response
              DATE - 15:13:39 5/25/99
              FROM - Skinman
              For someone with a net "handle" of Curious George, you display a dismally
              curious nature. As someone who has tried the Butane extraction method you
              trashed-before-trying I must say you seem to me biased and ill informed. If
              quality such as this can be garnered from "schwag wheat" I'm all for it. As
              someone new to the growing experience and one who is in it for the quality
              not the quantity, I see nothing wrong with turning something I would prefer
              not to smoke into an enjoyable product. As for your comment concerning
              mis-information used by some for "setting traps for unwary dopers too
              stoned to know any better," I can only respond that the quality of the post's at
              this site indicate that most reading them would fail to fall into that category,...
              even by your standards. If you must rant for ranting's sake, at least be
              informed of opinion rather than just expressing one.

              That being said, I like the idea of donating "schwag" to those in need and
              whom it would help. The only problem I see with that is the un-likely nature of
              it becomming a reality. I mean how would one go about getting it to those in
              need, and considering the U.S.'s attitude concerning the plant itself, wouldn't
              that put the grower at severe personal risk? All-in-all it is a noble idea
              though. Keep ranting on the whole dude. I believe a dissenting opinion can
              only strengthen everyone by showing sides maybe not contemplated
              otherwise. As for smoking utensil preferences, well thats why they are
              preferences right, if you enjoy only rolling, beautimus friend, but don't cut
              another down cause he/she/it prefers another method different from your
              own. After all our differences give us all strength!

              TO ALL:
              Sub's been on me to get on and say my peice so here's the first post. You'll
              be hearing from me more as the questions arise and the project matures.
              Peace, Love and GO Naked!
              Skinman out.



              TOPIC - Thanks OT1
              DATE - 15:13:00 5/25/99
              FROM - ShareCropper

              Thanks for the follow-up. I was just curious about the bone flour bit because
              it would seem that a finer grind would result in a faster compost as opposed
              to standard bone meal. Since changing over from a soiless wick setup using
              chemical ferts I am always looking for ways to improve. Next batch will be 2-3
              gal pots up from the 1 gal I perviously used. I don't think the 1 gal is big
              enough for a strictly organic grow without teas which I use but have overdone
              - organic still burns. I question the availabilty of the bone meal nutrients with
              the grow cycle so I plan on supplimenting with guanos. One mix that looks
              interesting and is in the WEEDBASE archives was posted by Elvis A. Presley
              makes use of the guanos over bone meal So I'll basterd the two (Vic's SS)
              and see what happens.

              Thanks again!



              TOPIC - BudM, Curious George, AK47
              DATE - 15:02:47 5/25/99
              FROM - Blazer
              BudM..Thanks Man. I know what You mean too. I was blasted away from
              HBC in the old days and open boards that keep civil are truly rare. I'm very
              glad C.G. and Myself were able to keep Our tempers etc.. Life's too short for
              squabbling w/ a damn box in front of Me! LOL
              Curios George You seem to be full of ideas and plans. I have a nice
              collection of genetics thanks to the web and My frineds on it. When You
              decide on Your approach, I'll part w/ a nice hybrid I'm sure You'll be happy w/..
              I have a MCW(mighty mite x chemo x White widow) that NCGA created that
              squats at whatever hieght You ask it too and then gets fat. It's a lil on the
              heavy side High wise though. It's just tough finding genes that'll squat on
              command like this 1 does. LOL Most stretch in many different ways.
              AK47 Well out of the 5 different seed selections from Amsterdam, the only
              sure winner is the AK. It's My 3rd run w/ her(the 1 out of the 10 I kept) and it's
              marvelous. My flavor desription sucks so I use the wife's, pine apple juice
              concentrate is what She says! LOL I know the quality is about a solid 9
              across the board. Dense, crystally as hell, good yielder and is just soo
              smooth. I'm in love. I don't see this gal ever getting away from Me.
              G13 is next, I don't know what else I'll throw in w/ them yet as I have to
              revamp a exhaust duct 1st. I just got some Ice Princess I'll be germing soon.
              I'll keep Ya's posted if You like, well even if You don't probably;)
              Peace folks, Blaze


              TOPIC - What kind of Soil Mixture?
              DATE - 13:20:01 5/25/99
              FROM - Karebear77
              Hi Guys,

              I am about to start my first attempt at growing a small closet garden with
              some Niagara seeds from Dr.Greenthumbs.
              My question is what kind of soil mixture do you think would work well with this
              strain, and what do you guys suggest I do to germinate, I have seen so many
              methods talked about and I don't know which one is right. I would really
              appreciate any advice at all about this strain.

              Thanx in advance,



             TOPIC - OT1
             DATE - 13:08:43 5/25/99
             FROM - Budm
             OT1- Im sending you mail, as my source is a friend of Alans and I dont want
             to comprimise his Id. And the info came Via the tele, not the net.



             TOPIC -
             DATE - 11:29:32 5/25/99
             FROM - Vic High
             Budm - per OT1's request, could you just post the URL's here? Thanks bud.

             KenKeman - a big congrats to you too if you are lurking.


              TOPIC - checking in
              DATE - 11:25:33 5/25/99
              FROM - Vic High
              Curious George - good thing I was away without FTP access. I would have
              deleted you straight up but am glad to see that with the help of others here
              that things worked out for the best. Your romberry autoflowering comment
              deserves a responce. I personally have grown literally hundreds of seeds
              and have yet to find one that autoflowers. None of it's parent stock will
              autoflower either. Don't know who told you that romberry will autoflower, but
              they are grossly misinformed.

              Ontario Dude - my big pest problem way back was thrips. Maybe BC thrips
              are meaner, hehe, but they really hurt my plants and dropped yields. And yes
              their shit all over was gross. I nailed them with a thrips predator and
              prevented their return with the fungas gnat predator, Hypoaspis sp. Forget
              the name of the thrips predator off of the top of my head.

              You are the second to mention Freezland to me. I think Richard at HS was
              the first but can't remeber for sure. He may be a good one to get more info on
              it. As for your over dry product, softening it prior to much handling may be a
              good idea. I do it by adding a few fresh leaves to the bag for a day. Other
              common methods is orange peels and such. This helps reduce the amount
              it crumbles and turns to shake. You know how popular shake is, eh? haha. It
              also helps in the weight dept but minimally.

              Nico, since I replied to your first email, I haven't recieved anything from you.

              Budm - good to hear that the Dutch are holding. I agree that the change in
              law is a blow to the movement. I don't think BC is ready or has the backbone
              to go it alone. Also, I think the Dutch still have lots to teach us, haha. Well
              Vancouver has been beautiful the last few days but I can't wait to get home.
              Miss my girls, haha.


             TOPIC - Att Budm
             DATE - 11:18:39 5/25/99
             FROM - oldtimer1
             Budm what is going down in Holland have looked on uk dope news site
             nada. could you send me link urls please!!!!!!!!!!! Ot1.


             TOPIC - Nice to meet you folks ... & more questions ...
             DATE - 11:13:38 5/25/99
             FROM - Curious George
             It's nice to know that there is still some appreciation for civil discourse in an
             age of Jerry Springer & pro wrestling.

             Here's a question : Which varieties would be a good choice for producing
             short 12-16 in. "Sea of Green" popsicle plants with a decent yield and a
             respectable buzz in 5 x 5 1/2 in. containers using an organic soil mix with
             "flowering cycle" lighting from the start?

             Preference should be given to stable, easy to grow and clone varieties rather
             than some prima-dona, extra-strong, hybrid that's a pain in the ass to grow
             and absurdly expensive. A later finish time wouldn't matter if it can produce
             an "up", "cerebral", or "creative" type buzz.

             That "Romberry" sounds interesting, ( though in reality, almost All I know
             about these "new fangled" crops is what I read in the press and on-line.
             Rarely does anyone know what variety is being packed in the bowl when it
             comes around.)

             Saw raves about "Seni Star" today, any feedback on that one?

             One more thing ... have breeders saved any of those old regional Mexican
             varieties? It seems like they're all gone, replaced with sloppy hybrids of
             Columbian and some Indica genes. That's what it looks like at the bottom of
             the bag.

             Take care ...



              TOPIC -
              DATE - 08:26:03 5/25/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi All,
              Well the PR is shooting up quick 5" growth in 10days! have a feeling afs
              going to have todo some serious prunining to try to co-inside the crossing
              with Nevs Haze. I had a email exchange with a breeder in Amsterdam, and
              his aittude is "nothings changed", he gos on as usuall. However I heard that
              AD at Sensi has decieded to put the new catalog printing on hold for now,
              Hes considered putting a breeding facility in Switzerland, how ever fear that a
              year or so after investing lots of $$, Switzerland might just pass laws like the
              Dutch, and put them out of biz there. The Sensi folks feel betrayed by there
              own Govt, after Ben D has funneled mucho $$$ from seed sales into
              millions of dollars in Hemp/Flax machinery, and research and development
              in the future of Hemp crops in Holland, and now they hit them with this bogus
              law. No doubt the law was influenced by political preasure from the US. Its
              really a shame for them. On the flip/side perhaps in time it may prove to be of
              benefit to the breeders in BC.But regaurdlees of ones opinion of the Dutch,
              its a step backwards in the process of "Normalizing the inocent Plant".And
              certainly gives the "other side" fuel for there prohiibition fire. And with BC
              being so close to decrim, I hope it in no way slows the movement down.

              Blazer & C George- Both of you are the consumate gentlemen, this board is
              trully benefited by both of your contributions IMHO. It just gos to show that
              with maturity, respect, & consideration, we can hear contradictory opinions,
              and learn somthing in the exchange. I sure did, call me slow, but I never
              gave a moment of thought to the, theroy of deliberate
              ommisions in text such as TACookBook, as a way to deliberately hurt



             TOPIC - Sensia star
             DATE - 07:48:02 5/25/99
             FROM - Aaron
             ASAP ???$$$??? where?


              TOPIC - storage
              DATE - 07:15:02 5/25/99
              FROM - RS
              Once you have a good amount of bud,
              what's the best method to store and
              preserve it for future use?


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 04:22:56 5/25/99
             FROM - Nico
             NCGA.. I have emailed you , did it get through ?

             Vic .. did you recieve ?

             Aussie Stoner .. welcome fellow Australian ! email me at address above


              TOPIC - some questions (light cycle, thrips, freezland)
              DATE - 01:03:05 5/25/99
              FROM - OntarioDude
              Hi all. I used to think I was an experienced grower until I came accross this
              msg board. I mean this in the most positive way. You BC boys(gals too)
              really know your stuff. I have a few questions.


              1. My room has been infected by THRIPS. The plants seem to be doing just
              fine. All information that I have gathered says that these things do no hamper
              the yields in any way. That said, I wish I did not have too look at the crap that
              they leve on the leves. What is the best way to get rid of them?

              The setup is 10 x 5 feet, iluminated by 2 1000HPS, running on 100 site
              aeroponic setup using SOG. 40% NL#9 (Sagarmatha), 10% Super Silver
              Haze (Green House), 50% unknown (from Montreal - the fastest, budding
              plant I have ever seen, faster then Top44! - not very potent by BC standards,
              but very very resinous, some purple in it towards the latter stages of life )


              2. I have read much about playing with ligh durations. Here is what I know.
              Some plants will flower with only 10-11 hours of dark others may need 13. It
              seems that its the lenght of the darkness that triggers the flowering traits of
              the plant. So I wondered if it was really neccessary to have light period add
              up to 24. has anyone tried a 12/14 light regiment. Would this mean higher
              yield? since the plants are getting more light & still getting their darkness to
              keep their flowring hormones active.
              Some strains seem to call for a 12/6 regiment - what does that do? (i
              assume it would speed up the maturity - but have not tried it to find out -
              seems like a bit of a waste)


              3. Has anyone heard of a strain called freezland? I have just picked up a
              pound of this stuff from Quebec. Its outdoor weed, however all who have
              seen it think it is indoor bud. It packs quite the punch. The grower will not
              budge on the price of 2700/p even at 10 or 15 (its bone dry and crumbles to
              dust - BIG pkg's). What is this stuff? I'v never seen or heard anytyhing about
              it, but it seems to be everywhere in Quebec. Is this a good price or am I
              being gauged?

              hypothetically speaking of course :)

              -= OntarioDude =-



              TOPIC -
              DATE - 00:45:17 5/25/99
              FROM - oldtimer1
              ShareCropper yes my spelling is terrible, bone flour should be available at
              small holder / farm outlets and horticultural sundrysman. Vic could fill you in
              on this. They will also have things like feather meal, hoof and horn, green
              sand, blood meal, bat guano and all the other things needed to make
              compost. Puff growers seem to forget that what they are doing is gardening
              and there are millions of them. Going to hydro grow shops is mad they
              charge up to 10 times as much for the same thing available at farm / garden

              Hope this helps Ot1


              TOPIC - CHEMO
              DATE - 20:11:24 5/24/99
              FROM - Blazer
              Hey buddy My email is messing up again so let's just say I put he check in
              the mail today;) Keep Your eyes open;)
              Thanks for Your INCREDIBLE patients!
              Yer Bud, Blaze


              TOPIC - Curious George
              DATE - 20:08:54 5/24/99
              FROM - Blazer
              Now passing it on to chemo and med. casses is something I'd give My oil up
              for! I'm a T3 parapledgic and find incredible relief from our kind. I'd gladly do
              something to that effect, but geographically, I'm in Kansas and it doesn't go
              over well here at all..bible belt shit. I was off the handle a little IMO on that
              post and took it personally, I shouldn't read the boards b4 coffee! ThankYou
              for Your "kind" reply explaining Yourself, it's greatly appreciated. Thanks for
              being civil;)
              I know that it sounds crazy, but My welding career has schooled Me well in
              gasses and there uses. Butane is merely a solvent that is the cleanest
              available since etier alchohol was hard to come by. It's just a novelty We
              stumbled across and loved the buzz, so I felt obliged to pass it on. BTW Nice
              to make Your aquaintance and I like Your level headed manor in which You
              post. I thought the public boards were a thing of the past. I'm Blazer and We
              seem to have several friends in common here, let's make a couple more
              and keep on keeping On;) Sorry if I came off crass.
              If You find the exact #'s on the Phillips bulbs You asked about, I have a buddy
              who is a Phillips lighting rep.! High friends in fairly high places rule. I'm the
              barter/networking master..I hate retail! LOL I could get Ya the bulbs You
              mentioned needing a Dr.'s script w/o 1 if You like. I've done a deal or 2 w/ Vic
              and My credibility is credible. I have wholesale lighting acct.s and all kinds of
              connections, dont hesitate to ask.
              Thanks again for the civil reply...I was expecting a major rant there! Peace


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 18:40:16 5/24/99
              FROM - test
              ___ ____ ________
              / | ____ ____ / / /___ < /__ /
              / /| | / __ \/ __ \/ / / __ \/ / /_ <
              / ___ |/ /_/ / /_/ / / / /_/ / /___/ /
              /_/ |_/ .___/\____/_/_/\____/_//____/
              /_/ AT MAIL DOT MD

              01000001 01110000 01101111 01101100
              01101100 01101111 00110001 00110011


              TOPIC - Ganjamel(?) bone flour
              DATE - 16:29:30 5/24/99
              FROM - ShareCropper
              Oldtimer1 made a reference to "bone flower" but I think he might mean "bone
              flour". I have searched and searched and all I can seem to come up with is
              that bone flour is very fine ground bone used in the production of things like
              doggie bones, etc. and other "foods", no source that I can tell here in the
              lower 48 except GNC type stores where it is sold as a calcium source. Oh
              well. Anybody else?

              And to think that yesterday it was only a weed...



             TOPIC -
             DATE - 15:26:40 5/24/99
             FROM - KQ
             I posted some words concerning the autoflowering race of weed at

             Tell me what you think.


             TOPIC - The Butane Extraction Rant ...
             DATE - 10:05:55 5/24/99
             FROM - Curious George
             Hey folks, ... that portion of my post dealing with butane extraction was clearly
             titled "rant", and if you didn't want to read it, you had the option to abstain. ... .

             That being said ... I stand by it ... there are thousands of chemo patients out
             there who whould be happy to smoke your shake, ... look at it as an
             opportunity do some karmic yoga ... give it to them, or their physicians.

             As to the question of "freedom of information": There is a Big, Big, difference
             between relying on internet message boards for instructions on growing
             plants, and relying on a message board for competent information on the
             care and handling of explosive chemicals!

             Are any of you kids familiar with "The Anarchist Cookbook"? Ever try to follow
             the instructions ? How many of your fingers are missing ? There are
             Deliberate Mistakes in that book, that were, and are, intended to maim any
             fool stupid enough to try producing explosive devices. I maintain a Very
             Healthy Skepticism when I see stuff like that Butane Extraction scheme
             published anywhere, because the "other side" has shown in the past that it
             has no qualms about setting traps for unwary dopers too stoned to know any

             Oh yeah, ... so "automatic" varieties can be "mothered", that still leaves the
             question of whether the "120 day" automatic feature is carried on to the

             Ciao !



             TOPIC - oil
             DATE - 08:55:30 5/24/99
             FROM - subcool
             First George you are so wrong.
             When I was growing I was trashing about 2 pounds of leaf/shake a months
             with this method I would not have wasted all that THC. You may smoke leaf
             but most it here would never smoke anything but primo bud.

             Blazz remade pvc out of 1" and made it only 14" long now we extract oil with
             as little as 2.5 oz of butane to extraxct about a gram of goo me and skin
             succesfully transformed sevearl oz of crap weed into delicious butter.
             Grey Popoun anyone??


              TOPIC - curious ABOUT George
              DATE - 07:58:37 5/24/99
              FROM - hansel

              The flow of information shall not be impeded by whiners like George.If you
              think its too dangerous for you, -it probably is.Don`t attempt to tell the world
              what you think should be published or not.

              Glass pipes are superior to metal in many ways. Not everyone likes to
              smoke only joints.George needs a good hand blown pipe.

              ..come on george,get with the program.



              TOPIC - Curious George
              DATE - 06:56:16 5/24/99
              FROM - Blazer
              CG You can clone and keep a mom of any strian IMO. I have a romberry
              mom and she clones along w/ every other plant out there, havent seen 1 that
              cannot be kept.
              Your flouro lighting plan sounds feasible, but I do not see the point when You
              can get a HID light so cheap and get better results. Flouro's are for moms
              and clones IMO.
              About the butane, didn't Your Mom teach You any manners? If You don't have
              anything nice to say, don't say it! That's easy enough. I elaborated on My
              results of obtaining the Honey Oil of the old days and its very nice. I'd rather
              consume My compost personally...Waste not, want not IMO. Don't knock it till
              You've tried it.


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 22:40:34 5/23/99
              FROM - Dr. Evil
              loophole: you have mail
              budm: still nothing? It didn't bounce this time, I assumed you got it

              Be safe
              Dr. Evil


              TOPIC - Great Gro Chat!
              DATE - 20:51:26 5/23/99
              FROM - PH

              Vic, ya run a nice board here brother!....here's some gro info...on those UVB
              bulbs, the type ya want are 5% to 7% UVB jus like used for reptiles, the good
              ones are available in 18" 24" 36" 48" with varying wattages , about $25 retail.
              I inquired with NCGA a long time ago and he recommended about a 20
              Minutes on per/Hour cycle as not to "fry'em", I have not tried'em yet, it's on my
              list of Mad Experiments! Ha!

              Heres "Something Good"...as Marta Stewart would say, Try Car Antenaes for
              stakes, they telescope up as your plant grows, an you don't have to change
              stakes, plus they're stainless steel (no rust)

              Thats all from the Cali Coast!


              TOPIC - "Automatic" flowering strains ... etc. etc.
              DATE - 20:11:43 5/23/99
              FROM - Curous George
              There are several seed banks selling strains that they claim to flower and
              mature early, by the number of elapsed days rather than the length of the
              night. They are supposed to "automaticly" finish flowering after 120 days for
              an mid-summer harvest ( with smaller than usual yield ) "Afgani Automatic"
              is the name of one, and there was a post I've seen elsewhere on the Web
              said that "Romberry" was also such a strain.

              Here's the question : Since these are "indoor/outdoor" strains, what would
              happen if you tried to make a "mother plant" of such a strain ? Would the
              clones from the mother, when placed outdoors, still exhibit the "120 day"
              flowering cycle? How would they react indoors? Or do these type plants need
              to always be grown from seed? Can they become "mother plants" at all?

              Also ... just a brief rant : Anyone who attempts that butane extraction of "honey
              oil" bit that's shown here ( and elsewhere on the web ) should have their
              brains examined! That's an extremely dangerous thing to try, is a waste of
              both time and energy, is an ecological disaster, and might very well poison
              you ! Only a stupid, greedy, soon to be french-fried moron would try such a
              stunt and only a complete asshole would publish such a dangerous
              process on the web where a lot of young, immature, stoned, adolescents
              might see it and decide to try it. The whole point of the growing your own is to
              obtain a Natural product, not a chemically altered one, so give up on this
              useless quest to turn shit into gold! Either give the trimmings away, or throw
              them away, Or, learn to use it as filler to Roll Joints that actually can be
              smoked ... rather than being a slave to those crappy little glass pipes.

              New Product Department: Philips has a new flourescent bulb that is
              significantly brighter, and lasts longer, than regular 4 ft. tube bulbs, but can
              still be used in standard T-12 fixtures. They also come in 4 different color
              ranges 3000, 3500, 4000, and 5000. They are called Advantage bulbs. Am I
              correct in assuming that the additional lumens will make flourescents a
              more viable option for growing "sea of green" crops of 15-18 inch "popsicle"
              buds in pots with a soil mix? Would six of these tubes, three 3000 and three
              5000, in three double fixtures, be enough to do that kind of growing in the
              area directly beneath them, which would be about 2 ft X 4 ft. or so ? And now,
              for the $64 question : What kind of seed would work well in this sort of
              enviornment? Romberry?? NL#5 ? NL#5 x Haze?

              Take care ... : )

                            Link: new "Advantage" flourescent bulb


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 15:53:45 5/23/99
             FROM - Budm
             Hi all, Well af was looking at his Rom XAf1 today and its easy to see why
             Rom does so well in lowlight gardens, it has the darkest green/blue leaves,
             darker than any other strain, and dark colors attract and soak-up the most
             light, mom used to tell us growing up in Miami, if you want to stay cool wear
             light colors, if you want the sun to stay on you were dark colors, it must have
             some corelation right?

             Ganjamel- Damm ! Lost ! email me.



             TOPIC - Puna Liqueir
             DATE - 14:56:45 5/23/99
             FROM - Ganjahmel
             I have found something else that you can do with leaf. Last week I was
             sitting a little bit of leaf and an idea came to me, pot liquier. I put the leaf in a
             jug and poured in some rum, just enough to saturate the leaves. I let it sit
             until last night and then strained the leaf though a shirt. Me and my budies
             drank it on the way tto a reggae show last night and let my tell you I was
             righteously blasted through the whole show. The buzz kicked in way faster
             than eating. Next time I think I might soak the laef overnight to get rid of all
             the water soluable nasties. Just a thought.


              TOPIC - high
              DATE - 14:19:00 5/23/99
              FROM - hi


             TOPIC - sub, VIC
             DATE - 12:38:59 5/23/99
             FROM - Blazer
             Wow thats wild sub, it musta been damn hot OD's when that happened or
             You didn't use enuff butane IMO. The ambient temps. have varied greatly in
             My trials. Anywhere from 65f to 85f I bet. But Your correct on the ambient air
             temp speeding up the boil alot, I say either move alot faster while filling and
             draining the bottle or insulate. I think the 1st is the problem. I think if the
             butane is in contact w/ the leaf for more than a few seconds, its job is over
             done. Only a brief contact is needed IMO and the breifer the better I'm
             I didn't tell a couple buddies lastnight that I loaded the bowl w/ oil and
             smoke. HAHAHA 1 was too paranoid to drive home and the other fell asleep!
             LOL I love tricking friends and blowing thier minds, but I think I took it a lil
             over this time;) They didn't seem to think it was nearly as funny as I did
             ofcourse, life's a bitch eh? ROFL
             OH BTW Vic I didn't see Your post about wanting UV lights. Tell Me what
             Your thinking and I can/will fix You up w/ the EXACT bulb for the app.. If I can't
             get the exact 1 You want, I can cross refrence it to a Phillips bulb or the
             equivilent. I'm 1 networking fool and can get this shit at wholesale price or
             better;) I've made 3 ozone cannons now that BLOW away anything that
             Uvonair makes, I know this cuz I bought 1 1st. Talk to Me buddy and We'll fix
             Ya up asap:)
             Blazing On


             TOPIC - Budm
             DATE - 10:23:06 5/23/99
             FROM - Ganjahmel
             Budm~ I haven't seen it yet, I dont know what the problem is. I tried to email
             you but there is something wrong with my england acount. I am going to get
             another acount, BTW what is that Dutch one you use. Have fun with that Kali!


             TOPIC - aussie stoner
             DATE - 23:00:28 5/22/99
             FROM - trelaway
             a six hundred in 30sqft is fine, works out to 2500 lumens/sq.ft. which is

             Just drop the seed into yer one inch r.w. cube. try not to handle the cubes too
             much when they're dry...there's a post further down by OT1 explaining the
             health risks.


              TOPIC - Info on pollen storage:
              DATE - 22:17:04 5/22/99
              FROM - KQ
              I like the idea of diluting pollen with pre-dessicated flour (1:50) and storage
              in the freezer in individual packets. What seems to be a common thread is
              the lack of moisture, light and heat when storing. If you want to store dust in
              its pure form, I would reccommend at the very least you
              aliquot it into as many tiny vials as you can, because it is not good to freeze
              and thaw over and over. Very small test tubes (even gelatin capsules) would
              work nicely as would folded wax paper or aluminum foil.
              I would store these units in a glass jar that seals VERY WELL along with an
              inch or two of silica gel or whatever dehydrating compound is common in
              your country. Craft stores usually sell silica gel to folks who like to dry flowers
              for dried flower arrangements. Put this silica gel into empty film cannisters
              with a couple of small pin holes in the top. Or you could use larger holes in
              the top and put some thin fabric or paper towel on the film container before
              you snap the little lid on. This will keep the gel from spilling all over the place.
              It's not really a gel, it's more like powder. Put maybe 4 or 5 of these in your
              larger jar. I think I would put the jar, gel, and pollen packets in the fridge for a
              week maximum just so the pollen dehydrates thoroughly before being
              frozen. Then straight to the freezer forevermore. The beauty of making
              individual small doses is you can pull one out for use and not disturb the
              dormancy of the others. Seems to me that the waxpaper or foil envelopes
              would be easier to manage as they do not seal tightly as would a test tube
              with a lid or stopper. A person could not just stopper up the fresh dust and
              put it in the dessicator jar!

              New twist: You could use some very small gel caps, properly labeled, of
              course! Find a size that will slide easily inside a soda straw. Get a bunch of
              these straws and cut them to fit nicely in the storage jar with the silica gel in
              the bottom (or wherever!). Maybe use color coded straws for easy ID of
              contents. Melt one end of the soda straw shut.
              Fill straws with gel caps and store in jar. You may have to find a way to
              dessicate a half-a-gel-cap with pollen in it for a week in the fridge prior to
              attatching the other half of the gell cap. Not sure how air tight these things
              are! Maybe drill a tiny hole in the "top" cap for h20 and gas exchange? Don't
              know, but I'm in brainstorming mode! Sounds like fun stuff, but the wax paper
              envelope is way easier. A pile of envelopes could be held together with
              some sort of mechanical clip, a rubber band, or a larger envelope. Or, if you
              have the freezer room, separate jars for each pollen type.

              I've had this little paper envelope in my possession for over 10 years cuz I
              liked how it was made. Some girl made it. It starts with a square of paper 4
              inches on a side, and you fold it across the diagonal which forms a triangle
              with one long side and two short sides. Take one of the 45 degree angles
              and fold it 2/3 of the way over to the other 45 degree angle. Do this also to the
              other side. Now you will be left with a small square (2 inches on a side) with
              a small triangle on top. Fold the triangle part down to the middle of the
              "square" leaving you with a true square and fold the bottom of the square up
              leaving you with a rectangle that is 1" x 2". The triangle flap can be inserted
              into the slot formed by folding the original 45 degree angles inward.

              A "seal" (pollen envelope) goes something like this:

              1. Cut out a perfect square 3 x 3 inches
              2. Touch one corner to it's opposite and crease the bottom.
              You should now have a triangle.
              3. Fold in the two bottom corners of the triangle so they overlap each other
              4. Tuck one of the "wings" into the other. The shape should be that of a
              rectangle with a triangle on top.
              5. Now open the top so it has a mouth, and pour the pollen in, and close.
              6. Fold the bottom up near the top so all you can see is the triangle part. Fold
              the top of the triangle down into the space between the paper and the wings,
              which should now be facing up. Tuck in in securely and you're done.

              I hope any of this helps you with you storage quest! KQ


             TOPIC - Vic
             DATE - 21:57:52 5/22/99
             FROM - Old Bud
             Loop_hole is right I found several places that sell UVB tubes but you need a
             Dr. perscription (psyriosis, etc), that was the next best thing.


              TOPIC - aussie stoner
              DATE - 18:48:45 5/22/99
              FROM - irish
              plase go to www.homegrownfantasy.com
              go to the grow tips, this will answer many of your questions. also there are
              other "weed" based boards you could try to get all the beginning info you

              try: www.yahooka.com to guide you into the realm of virtual growing. lots of
              links and you are sure to find very helpful sites there.

                               Link: homegrown's homepage


             TOPIC - Oil
             DATE - 18:42:42 5/22/99
             FROM - Subcool
             I'm curious what is your ambeint temp?
             we tried the bottle at skins and all the butane boiled off before any amount
             could run through.
             Think chilling the vessel and weed before wetting would help?
             how bout insulatingt the container?


              TOPIC - how long???
              DATE - 18:06:46 5/22/99
              FROM - aussie stoner
              any one with a comment,
              i live in australia and have just got some seeds from overseas.they are from
              home grown fantaseed(2 called home grown fantasy and 2 called millenium
              which can produce 600g per m2.)i got them on friday night and put them
              streight in water.its now sunday lunch time and one seed has started to
              how long should i leave it in the water or should i take them out as they
              i have some rockwool cubes soaking in a ph of 5.7 and a nutrient mix of 840
              ppm.is this to strong???the seeds looked really nice and cost me top dollar.
              also can any one recomend any of sagarmatha seed stock???
              also should i put the seeds under a small 2 blub fluro or streight under a
              400w metal halide 1 meter from the seeds.they will be grown as mothers.
              anyone that has any ideas please post the up...thanks
              p.s should i cover the seeds when i put the in the rockwool??? and is there
              any special way of placing the seeds in there hole???


             TOPIC - Gotta love those lumens
             DATE - 16:40:38 5/22/99
             FROM - Budm
             Hi all,
             Well one KaliMist in a 2gal pot camme down today only 53 days! 70% ripe
             pistills, more than 11/2 tricome heads cloudy, seems like just a few days
             ago it was about 20% ripe pistills, the real tall (6') Kalimist still has the tops
             only 205 ripe, but the bottom branches were done, 80 watts per sqft of hps &
             smh 400 & 400 = about 8000 lumens per sqft raelly get the job done,
             10-15% ahead of specs, and tight tight tight;-))

             KQ & OT1 - Still procrast im mean working on the PGP, I down loaded
             Comunicator 4.6 and im trying to enable it, as to handle the PGP direct
             without the clipboard step. Ill be in touch this week.

             Ganjamel-- Did you see that?????



             TOPIC - KQ
             DATE - 15:04:56 5/22/99
             FROM - oldtimer1
             KQ sorry mate I staying with my daughter at the mo. will be back in town
             wednesday will write to you then. But post the pollen storage info here it's
             good and will be of interest come to that so would seed storage info.
             All the best Ot1


             TOPIC - remeasured
             DATE - 14:32:51 5/22/99
             FROM - aussie stoner
             vic,or anyone i just remesured my room and it is 30 foot square.
             the light rail i have is very quick as well.
             do you think a 6oowatt is enough?


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 14:25:41 5/22/99
             FROM - KQ
             Oldtimer--I hope you got my mail about the pollen storage stuff. I must have
             sent it out a week ago or so. Hope all is fine with you.

             If anyone here is interested in pollen storage, just give a yell and I can post it
             here. Otherwise I won't take up the space.


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 13:35:49 5/22/99
              FROM - loop_hole
              Vic- I have the #ís for real UVb-b flo tubes at work (Iíll get them for you on
              Tuesday). I do know that they are expensive and you (theoretically ) need a
              permit, license or medical note of some sort to buy them. I believe theyíre
              used in the treatment of glaucoma. The industrial light shop I use said they
              could probably get them for me but I may have to buy 5 or so. That was too
              much for me but if youíre interested maybe we could split an order (e-mail
              me if interested). I too would prefer to cycle the real thing. I was thinking of
              using 6 foot tanning bulbs, reptile lamps or 100 watt MH with the outer glass
              removed on for the entire light cycle but all these are less than ideal (or are

              Also, I just took cuts from Emeryís rom, his rom/big and your romberry that Iíll
              put into 12/12 in about 2 weeks so Iíll keep ya posted.
              How did the UBC and champagne turn out?

              All- re: soil additives. I had outstanding results by using 50 % coco coir, 30%
              perlite, 20 % worm turd with a bag of ìflower powerî from welcome harvest
              farms as well as a few other misc. organic goodies in 5 litre pails. No ferts
              for 3 weeks then a mild GH chem mix after.
              I second jayís recommendation for the light rail 3 if anyoneís looking for a
              linear mover. An excellent product.

              Soul- if youíre lurking, welcome. Long time no yak. Guess its all that fame ;-).

              Doc Evil. Hope everythingís alright. E-mail me.

              La.bud or anyone one else. Looking for experience with AK-47 in aeroponics
              (or in anything actually).
              Does anyone know what makes up this F-1?

              OT1- keep up the great post. Always a pleasure to learn.

              Richard- how bout a Canadian break. Buying Canadian genetics from a
              Canadian company in US dollars just seems philosophically wrong.




              TOPIC - Honey oil makers. Chemo,T2, Lubie,UV
              DATE - 12:34:34 5/22/99
              FROM - Blazer
              Sub, Pi and all. Well I think I have My technique for making the oil at it's best
              and wanted to share what I've found.
              Recap, I'm using 32.oz. Gatorade bottles over pvc. 1 hole in the cap large
              enuff for the butane nozzle and 1 in the shoulder of the bottle beside the cap.
              I fill the bottle almost FULL of weed. I did think that using extra "stand by"
              bottles of leaf would maximize the butane's work, I think I was wrong. I used
              about17-20 oz's of butane, I filled the 1st bottle and immediately poured it
              into the next bottle waiting inline. I rolled the bottle to make sure all the leaf
              was soaked. I them purchased 2 square, stainless steel cake pans for
              evapping the butane off and make it easier to collect product. This also
              speeds up the evap. procsess 10 fold as it allows for more surface area.
              Well I dont see any advantage yield wise by using more leaf for some reason
              damnit! It seems that it would maximize the butane, but I didnt get anymore
              yield like I expected. It MAYBE a lil more potent, but I'm not sure. By using the
              cake pans(1 to boil and 1 to cover)I have made the boiling time seconds as it
              was minutes in a mason jar or pvc IMO. I then set the cake pan into another,
              larger pan of HOT h2o. This made the boil BLAST off and finish in seconds.
              The biggest problem I have faced is collecting the oil after its all made. So I
              got a bottle of Grain alchohol and used a few drops per pan to thin it out,
              Works like a charm and the grain will evap. off to the thickness You like by
              letting it sit, more evapping. I use a plastic card to collect now(credit card
              etc), but I've yet to get anything into a vial! LOL I just take it from the pan as I
              want it. PI I saw You mention wanting to use more coffee filters next time. I
              don't think that's the problem IMO. I believe that You let the leaf boil too long
              IMO, it only needs contact for a few seconds to do it's job from what I've
              found, just My opinion. I found letting it boil longer seems to break it down a
              lil too far and extracts more chlorophyl and other un wanted parts of the plant
              IMO. The grain and cake pans are the best improvements so far. Remember
              though this is just what I and a few others have found out in our trials, You
              men may find something WE missed so dont be afraid to deviate from these
              instructions. So many ways to do the same thing and always room for
              improvment IMO. Have fun and be careful! Please keep Me filled in too!
              CHEMO My Brother! I got Your email, but my acct. is messed up now for
              some odd reason. I'll get back to You asap as I have some cool suprises I
              OWE You and I think they are gonna be damn cool. I'll get it lined out b4
              heading to the lake this week. Thanks for Your help in the past and Your
              understanding of My dumbasssness/procrastination! I have something else
              info wise from Me, Az,rhu, nestaa and the old gang;0. I'll be in touch asap;)
              T2 I'll be leaving here thursday morning, I bet it will be fri. or saturday b4 We
              can hook up. WE WILL though I promise. I may have to talk Ya into another
              batch of the best burrito's I know of! They still stand out in My memory;)
              Tasted better than most of the kind We tried IMO;)
              I'll bring Ya a few suprises as well.
              Lubie I must concure w/ Jay and Vic as it's factual now. I've sen it in action
              UV bulbs I have a wicked resource and a Phillips lighting rep. at My disposal
              for lighting Q's. I've been buying hi power UVC bulbs to make My own ozone
              cannons and was wondering which apps. the UVB and UVA had. I forget
              what My reptiles preffered(UVB I believe). Anyhow, If You guys can get any Q's
              lined up, I'll call and get part #'s of bulbs available for Your apps.. Lots to
              choose from and I have a employee discount at Grainger I can use on
              occasion, saves tons;) Networking and bartering RULES!
              Well Friends I hope this helps Ya's. Peace,Blaze


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 11:01:56 5/22/99
             FROM - Vic High
             Thanks for the post Jay, good to see you here.

             Diane - I'm with Cedartop on this one. I just follow the KISS approach with
             seeds. pH will be your biggest hidden enemy as cedatop eluded to. Make
             sure soil is basic neutral potting soil or for safety, sprinkle a little lime into
             the soil for safety. Mix well, waterand let sit for a couple of days. plant seeds
             and keep warm. Many beginners use the top of the fridge. Don't cover with a
             humidity dome and if you want added security, mist with no damp to reduce
             the chances of mold attacks.

             With good seeds I understand it's hard to bury them out of site and that is
             why I think the old paper towel method cam around. What I do instead is to
             poke a 1/2" hole into the soil with a blunt pencil and drop the seed in without
             covering it with soil. The micro climate in the hole is moist enough to sprout
             the seed. It also makes it easy to spot the begining of a mold attack and
             spray with no-damp if need be.

             good luck


             TOPIC - first time with good seeds
             DATE - 10:20:19 5/22/99
             FROM - cedartop
             diane, dont know what a lot of the experts will tell you but from my past
             experience i just used regular potting soil and popped the seeds about a
             quarter inch in the dirt and kept the top of the soil damp. i never used distilled
             water. or any ferts until i transplanted them. i have had bad experience with
             jiffy pots and peat pellets. guess the peat added ph problems. main thing is
             dont baby them to much and surely dont overwater and fertilize. i watered
             when the pots were getting light. whatever potting mix you use make sure it
             drains well. i'm growing veggies now in organics and am amazed at the
             growth. i always started my plants in those little 2 inch containers that the
             dollar stores carry. just wish i would have known about the seed banks and
             such when i was growing. good luck later


             TOPIC - first time w/good seeds
             DATE - 09:57:17 5/22/99
             FROM - diane
             Help! This is my first time with good seeds and I don't
             want to screw up. I've got 6" pots filled with good
             soil; I added about an inch of seed starting mixture on
             top of that. I'm going to soak the pots with distilled
             water, add the seed, cover it well with the
             seed starting mix and then: here's my question:
             should I lightly wet the top with a diluted (by 1/3)
             mixture of 3-12-4 plant starter w/vitamin b-1? Or
             should i just use plain or distilled water? Some
             advice by this board's seasoned pro's would be
             greatly appreciated! Thanx!



              TOPIC - lubie and light movers...
              DATE - 09:40:51 5/22/99
              FROM - jay
              lubie i guess i disagree with you as well,the mover doesnt make more light
              but uses it way more effieciently then a stationary light..for arguement sake
              lets use the pic above..okay room size was 6x9= 54 sq feet
              normal use of a 1000 bulb is 16 sq feet..so in that garden i used 2 k of bulbs
              for an illumination of 32 sq feet..so by using the light mover i gained another
              22 sq feet of useable space..yield on garden was just under 5 lbs ,so using
              a light mover we pulled down just under 2.5 lbs perlight.what i can say from
              experience is first off the strain your growing will really depend on the wats
              per foot you need..the garden was mainly romberry plus had 2 nl#5 in it..nl
              didnt yield as much as berrys but they were put in to room 3 weeks late from
              start of veg and werent as big as romberries..romberry is one strain that
              does real well in low light gardens..the other determining factor is the light
              rail itself..i have had 3 different ones now and what one needs to make sure
              is that the rail moves back and forth fast..i have tried the protrac and
              aquaculture movers..wasnt happy at all with outcome,the light rail 3 kicks
              ass it is totally controllable and runs at a fast speed..

              just my 2 cents...


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 08:38:10 5/22/99
              FROM - oldtimer1
              Vic you have mail. Ot1


             TOPIC - movers and such
             DATE - 08:02:12 5/22/99
             FROM - vic High
             Sorry Lubie but I must dissagree about a mover not increasing the area. I
             think you were just using the mover wrong. Say if you ususlly use a single
             light to illuminate a 4 by 4 ft area, then with a track/rail you could easily cover
             a 4 by 5 ft area. Plus you gain the benefit of deeper light penetration and
             more uniform canopy growth.

             Aussie - turn off the caps locks buddy, almost deleted you thinking you were
             a shouting troll, haha. have a good one.

             Old Bud - thanks for the link. Now are these the real UVb lights? or
             something a little less output like a blacklight? The reason I ask is that
             others have mentioned that you only want to use the real UVb light in short
             bursts a couple of times a day. The ones mentioned in those picks are
             probably safe to leave on all day over the plants if they are safe for reptiles
             (and their owners).

             Ganjahmel - my only experience with polymers was about 10 years ago
             when I worked for Safer Soap's research branch. My boss picked some up
             and some sort of convention and gave them to me to play with. Well on one
             lazy day I decided to pot up a few hanging baskets for the girls up in the
             office and threw in a few crystals for fun. Watered them well and left for the
             night with my fellow workers teasing me about kissing up to the office girls.
             Well the next morning the teasing turned to all out laughter, all the plants had
             literally jumped out of their pots an onto the ground. Haha, I guess I added
             too many crystals, haha. Well seriously I don't have any other experience with
             them. They were a hot topic last year right about this time over at Weedbase.
             Just use their great archive feature, and do a search.


             TOPIC - Re: Aussie stoner.
             DATE - 00:09:02 5/22/99
             FROM - lubie
             2m x 2m is way too big for the 600!
             When you calculate the watts per sq foot (in your case lets say 7feet x 7 feet,
             thats 9 sq feet, which gives you 12.245w per sq foot, you need 40w per sq
             fooe for Good results.
             So either get moor lights, or shrink you grow room to 2m x 0.5m.
             BTW I tried to use a light mover to illuminate a huge space (4m x 1.5m
             1000w MH) it didnt work!
             IMHO you need 40-60w per sq foot, even with a light mover you have to figure
             that the usual area for the light cannot be increased by fuck all! But the use
             of a light mover gives more uniformity in bud growth because the light is
             spread out more, But you dont get more light from using a mover, which I
             discovered after spending 350 bucks on a mover...

             Hope this helps.

             *Weed without Greed*


             TOPIC - how many watts???
             DATE - 20:20:33 5/21/99
             FROM - aussie stoner
             A 2X2 METER ROOM.


              TOPIC - Better site
              DATE - 18:09:35 5/21/99
              FROM - Old Bud
              Ignore the first, this is what you were after I think (this time).

                                 Link: uv b model and price


              TOPIC - UV B Tubes
              DATE - 18:03:44 5/21/99
              FROM - Old Bud
              I found this site today, hope it helps.


                                     Link: UV B tubes


              TOPIC - Polymers
              DATE - 16:40:33 5/21/99
              FROM - Ganjahmel
              Hello all, I would just like to commend Vic and all of the regular posters on
              this this board for the rich knowledge they convay, Thank you

              I was just wondering if any of you have had experience with polymers
              outdoors, or indoors as I know most of the growers are indoor people here.
              My friend is doing an outdoor patch this year, but will be gone during most of
              the summer, three to for weeks at a time. He has been doing lots of
              searching and reading about polymers, and there seems to be quite a
              contravercy on the subject. One person told him that there was a study at
              UVA that found that when used in pots, hanging I think, they only shorted
              water needs 20 minutes. He really wants to grow but is worried about
              droughts. If anyone can help him please post.

              Also, about the bone flower, what exactly is it and what brand names would it
              be found.

              If every thing goes well my friend will hopefully try to do a little breeding, he
              will be growing a couple of unkown strains from last yaer along with Niagra,
              Sensi Skunk, Mexi Sativa(sensi), Skunk#1+Durban, BG mix, and
              Romulan+BC Kush.
              He is wondering about the growth patterns of the Mexi and the Sk#1+Durban.
              Please comment. Peace and Cool Runnings.


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 13:55:55 5/21/99
             FROM - Vic High
             OT - Like Budm says, please don't be shy with those long posts. Got lots of
             space here :)

             searching for lime info and stumbled on this page on P ferts, figured it went
             with one of the current topics.

             UVb lighting - anyone have the part numbers or model numbers of any UVb
             flo tubes? local supplier keeps wanting to sell me black lights. Tanning
             tubes are easy to find, but they give off UVa. OT - I've been thinking of using
             my broken optimarc (HQIT) bulb but am worried that it actually does't give off
             the UV as a regular MH bulb. Remember when I used it in a pinch? well it
             was used or a couple of days and didn't burn the plants in the least. Is it only
             the MH's that operate off of an MH ballast that give off UV?


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 13:23:31 5/21/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi All,
              OT1-Thanks for the info, the re-digestion over and over, by the
              microorganisms, makes alot of sense. Your much to polite
              no one IMO needs an apolgy for droping all that long post knowledge, much
              to the contrary Thank You for the long post.

              Mr Soul- If your lurking , you were 100% correct about the KMist, very hard
              buds indeed, especially for a satavia, harder than most indicas, one branch
              snapped today and it was harvested, one of the most unique bouquets.

              Matt- I might sound redundant, but money or not, Romberry will be a great
              choice, and after its harvested you will agree its worth at least double the 50$
              it costs. Im sure any of the Suprises will be great also, and I noticed some
              new Canadian genetics at Heavens Stairway that look to be good values at
              25$/10beans under the moniker "buds genetics" "MC's Breakfast" sounds
              intresting. RC can you comment on these new offerings at the SB board at
              cann.com? speaking of suprises-
              at 4-5 wreeks all of the following are looking great

              RSB Sup -7nodes and 12-13"tall
              Wash Sup -5-6 nodes and 11-12'tall and very nice side branch
              P.75 Sup 6 nodes and 12" tall
              Peak 19 F2s- 6-7 nodes and 10" tall
              PanRed - 9 nodes and 16" tall, just had a big spurt of growth

              Some of the above are still in 24oz cups, as the Kalimists
              are holding up the SuperCrystal and BB clones that are to take there place in
              the flower closet, and let the new seedlings get larger pots. Im sure that the
              extended time spent in the 24oz cups will have some consquences, like
              more males. Time will tell.

              Have a great and safe weekend everyone, and a happy Victoria Day to my
              Canadian Brothers:-))




             TOPIC -
             DATE - 11:21:38 5/21/99
             FROM - Vic High
             Bud Bundy - My best advice is that whatever you do, don't do it to more than
             half of them. This way you give yourself backup and also set the stage for
             you (and us if you relay the info) to learn something new.


              TOPIC - Rom surprise update/rock phosphate
              DATE - 11:04:55 5/21/99
              FROM - Bud Bundy
              Vic - Just wanted to let you know that the Romberry Surprises are happy in
              their 10th day of Flower, after 41 days of veg. 12 of the 20 ended up F (one
              showed early hermie signs during veg, but has yet to pop another stamen so
              she's stayin') Since the grow room cieling is low, the taller ones were culled
              early (which may have been M or F), so there may have beeen even more F's.
              One dad has been selected...it was short (only 15"), was the bushiest of the
              entire bunch, and smelled like HONEYSUCKLE...perfect stealth odor! So far,
              everything looks great, they are all in 3 gal rectangular trash cans, in a
              3x3.5x4h room under 430 hps (5000 lumens/sqft).

              Now, in the "Say it ain't so" department... I am using a soil mix of 50%
              Sunshine mix 50% perl/verm (36 gal total) in which I added two cups of
              100% organic "flower tone" at 3-5-7, and one cup of Super phosphate 0-20-0
              (soil was mixed 2 weeks before plants were put in). I figured that I would be
              able to use pure water for the duration of flower, and that the ferts would
              moslty be used up and be in very small amounts in the later stages of flower.
              Obviously, no one wants harsh tasting buds, do you think I need to seriously
              leach this soil or what? Or, am I really just destined to smoke black ashin'
              harsh tastin' buds? SAY IT AINT SO! Cause they look beautiful!


             TOPIC - thanks...
             DATE - 09:23:06 5/21/99
             FROM - stonerg
             for the answer to my U-V question. I only hope that as I learn more I will be
             able to share back more often! All I really have a good knowledge of is
             growing in extremely small places -- building "boxes." The one I've got now
             has a fishtank on it; people come over and look at the fish! (It's small, about
             a cubic metre, but I must add very productive most of the time -- once got
             12oz bonedry!)
             My whole point is that's all I know, I would like to share more often so I don't
             feel like a freeloader, and I will share more as I get more experience. (and
             have the space to experiment- someday.) Thanks everybody!



              TOPIC - Bone Flower
              DATE - 09:11:06 5/21/99
              FROM - ShareCropper

              Thanks for the great post on bone meal. I was just about to mix up another
              batch of the SS mix this weekend.

              I am not familiar with the bone flower that Oldtimer1 mentions in his post
              below. Does it perhaps go by another name here in the States? Anyone?

              Many thanks!




             TOPIC -
             DATE - 06:56:06 5/21/99
             FROM - oldtimer1
             Vic didn't mean to cause confusion I learnt from you that a small addition
             magnesium sulphate to the compost base alleviates early Mg shortage
             while the dolomite breakdown comes into play. Well the worm castings have
             a good reserve of soluble P that supply the P needs while the rock
             phosphate starts to break down. As an organic gardener I wouldn't use
             either super or triple super phosphate as they both kill worms and a large
             portion of the soil micro flora. I dont believe that phosphate is needed in the
             huge amounts as used by chemical and hydro growers, it may pump up the
             buds a little but the residual phosphates inhibit burning and give a harsh
             taste. Your system of using large pots just using water right through will
             have plenty of fungi and bacterial micro flora. A living system that continually
             release nutrients as they line and die they are your chemical factories get an
             excess of a nutrient and that bunch of bacteria shut down until the plant or
             other organisms mop it up it is to a certain extent self balancing providing
             there are sufficient resources for them to work on. Given the choice of a
             phosphate resource, I would use bone flower as it has been selected by
             plants and eaten by animals potentially millions of times whereas fine
             ground rock phosphate it will be the first time. I have a somewhat
             unreasoned feeling that nutrients that have been picked by plants many
             times are better! Come to that it has been that way for millions of years well
             up to about a hundred years ago.

             Budm Yes mad cow disease, one of the first people to die with it here was a
             vegetarian who got a spec of bone meal in her eye when feeding her roses.
             The pelleted form is for easy spreading it has quite a lot of water soluble P
             and should work fine like it is as long as mixed well in your compost.
             Personally I wouldn't use it, reasons above, I haven't read up on this subject
             for years so i cant remember the proportion of actual available P but its not
             45% by a long chalk in that a good portion is insoluble.

             Irish I would say they had been living on water only for a while with little in the
             way of nutrient reserves. They are certainly at the end of the late floral stage
             and to a certain extent the colouration is natural as in autumn leaf colour and
             varies with different varieties.

             Sorry for the long post, Ot1.


              TOPIC - Needfull things
              DATE - 05:37:40 5/21/99
              FROM - RC
              Hello Vic,
              haven't seen you around, if you're in Mayberry pick up some stamps.


             TOPIC - ot1's answer
             DATE - 23:17:10 5/20/99
             FROM - irish
             Budm we call it triple super phosphate it is made by treating phosphate rock
             with sulphuric acid it is classed as a chemical fertiliser and immediately
             available to plants. ****


             TOPIC - rock phosphate
             DATE - 22:53:12 5/20/99
             FROM - Vic High
             Ot - ok between you and Shabang my head is starting to spin, haha. Let me
             recap to make sure I got this straight. Rock phosphate is slow release but
             isn't much different than bone meal with respect to speed of release and
             duration? And to increase the instant availability they treat the rock
             phosphate with sulphuric acid to make triple super phosphate, right? Now
             the rock phosphate is considered a natural product. Is the super triple
             phosphate a natural product or a chemical fert?

             Thanks for your reply, it was good to see ya.


              TOPIC - clearing
              DATE - 17:04:39 5/20/99
              FROM - Lady J
              ph 5.5 1 week hydro, 2-4 bio. Prior to finish. How you do it does not matter.



              TOPIC - ot1!
              DATE - 16:51:09 5/20/99
              FROM - irish
              would you mind sharing a little info on the timing of these deficiencies?...
              would you do thid before clearing, during clearing etc. i think that may help a
              lot in determining just how much to sacrifice for these beautiful autumn



             TOPIC - not mine..nope...
             DATE - 16:15:15 5/20/99
             FROM - irish
             but a boy could hope, just some shots i found, running around. i have seen
             this coloration on plants (on accident of course) knew the ones i saw were
             deficient, didn't know that would help, of course, again.

             but, i for one... very, very impressed. giving my friend some goals to shoot for.
             love the colors.


              TOPIC - OT1
              DATE - 15:37:55 5/20/99
              FROM - Budm
              OT1-Im not familer with the "BSE", does that have somthing to do with Mad
              Cow Sickness? Also your saying that if I broke down the Sup Triple Rock
              Phosphate to a finer powder from its pellet form, it could take the place of
              bonemeal in the SSoil mix and last longer than BM in its P release? Anty
              precautions to take, if I just break it up in a towel or somthing with a
              hammer? TIA

              PS: OT1 you could write a far better book than Ed R or Mel Whatshisname,
              you trully have some incredible knowledge, in many areas that the so called
              "growers bibles" lack in.


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 11:37:19 5/20/99
             FROM - oldtimer1
             stonerg the glass in aircooled and water cooled lights completely remove
             the uv produced by MH lights. The glass outer envelope on MH lamps is
             Quartzite similar to that used in fluorescent tubes including uv types and lets
             useful amounts of uv through.

             Budm we call it triple super phosphate it is made by treating phosphate rock
             with sulphuric acid it is classed as a chemical fertiliser and immediately
             available to plants. I use fine ground rock phosphate yes this is a long term
             mineral fertiliser but gives continual slow release of phosphate for a very
             long time, the idea of organic growing is the continual steady release of
             nutrients by biological reactions with micro organisms within the
             soil/compost and the reaction of acids with minerals to provide the plants
             with every thing they need. We have had a lot of people die with BSE and
             here bone meal is no longer allowed as a fertiliser in food production and
             prior to that order we used bone flower in our compost rather than bone
             meal as it was ground finer giving more surface area for the humic acids
             and micro flora to work on. We have noticed no deficiencies of phosphorus
             since changing over to rock phosphate. Bone meal in a good soil will
             release phosphate for 12 to 15 years fine ground rock phosphate 10 years +
             and steamed bone flower 5 to 7 years. Hope this helps a bit. The purple
             magenta leaves in drA's lab are typical of a deficiency of P and N at the end
             of a grow, it tends to make a very sweet easy burning smoke. Nice buds!

             All the best Ot1


             TOPIC - Irish! Those are the most beautiful pics I have...
             DATE - 10:11:22 5/20/99
             FROM - Kenkeman
             ever seen...What I would do just to have a taste of some of those buds...my
             hats off to Dr. Atomic!!!


             a envious Kenkeman!


              TOPIC - eclectic
              DATE - 09:48:58 5/20/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi all,
              Vic- Thanks for the RP info allthough its cheap(2$/4lb),No need to waste $$
              on something thats not good for container gardening.

              Dr A/Irish(?)- Whoevers garden that is in the pix(Dr's Labratory), im very
              impressed, what strain produces those magenta colored leaves at the
              colas? I seem to have a affinity for out of the ordinary, I suppose most of us
              do, find intrest in oddities/rare-strains/unique-traits.

              Kali Mist is at 50 days, about 20% pistils ripe,looks as if they will finish in the
              60 day range, due to the abudant amount of light about 8000 lumens per sq
              ft, this intensity
              finishes BigBud/Posi in about 40 days. Ive wondered how Top 44 would fare
              in a high light powered garden, it seems that about 10-15%, is what can be
              "shaved" off of finishing times with double the light, so finishing a T44 crop in
              36 days would give 10 per year, I wonder if the additional expense of
              Hydro/electric diminishes the additional crop/cycles return, not that im
              production orientated, its that these matmatics and plausable scenerios
              intrique me.I wish brushing up on my spelling did as well, ha ha ha;-)
              It seems that 10-15% gives 1 extra crop per year, in a small garden of 10sqft
              this means about 300grams at a cost of opperating a additional
              lamp(400watt), which roughly costs 150$Us per year to burn, so approx
              150$ = 300extra grams, seems that this is practacal in small gardens, as in
              larger ones it would be alot of extra hydro/electric, hence more out of the
              ordinary utility bills, one big plus is that the flowers are as tight as can be,
              and tropical strains are made very happy with the high watts per sqft, and if
              your trying to get as much crossing/tinkering/back crossing done, with a
              small amount of space 1 extra cycle or speedier maturation is a great thing.

              Dr A- I now understand (sometimes im a bit slow) what you were implying
              about the GA and its potency, man one pure drop can make several cases of
              this 7.95$us a bottle spray, the "inert ingredents"(water) are 99.999 %. I think
              im in the wrong business, id like a piece of that kind of retail mark-up. Sorry
              for all of the rambling, I hope someone gets somthing from it. But its posts
              like these in the archives that I gleaned so much from, Its still hard for me to
              believe that only a scant 8 months ago, I began reading at WB, and then
              shortly there after found this site. Id venture to say that at present ive
              accumalated a liftime of knowledge, if I did not have the WWW, and had to
              rely on the books and the ocasional, interaction of a fellow gardners
              advice.However all the reading and book knowledge i sreally nothing without
              the practical hands on experience that only comes with many years of
              gardening, and understanding the strains your working with. The web and
              information/content in general are very powerfull indeed. Sorry for the long
              rambling post, I hope some of the less experienced newcommers, can
              benefit something from it.




             TOPIC - GB
             DATE - 09:19:57 5/20/99
             FROM - webfish
             Green Bear call me,if you have my # still I lost yours,,I have a small
             contribution to the cause...


              TOPIC - funkdified, dr.A, greenbear, sub
              DATE - 05:06:26 5/20/99
              FROM - 180
              funkdified, i'm not absolutely sure about this because i don't use more than
              18 hrs for veg ($$), but i believe that you will seem SOME flowering triggered
              by that change (23hrs to 15hrs), because i think there are 2 factors to
              consider with phytochrome (or florigen, or whatever) levels: the absolute
              level, and the relative level.
              at 23hrs, it's safe to bet that your plants will not have much "background"
              level of phytochrome, so when you switch them to 15hrs, they will experience
              a big jump in their p-chrome levels. even if their "trigger point" for flowering is
              below 15hrs, i would not be surprised if they threw a few flowers and
              changed their growth pattern a little. this is what i mean by the "relative" level
              however, as they adjust, and with the day still lengthening, they should
              recover from this little shock and revert to veg growth at least partially. how
              long this takes, how much they flower before adjusting, etc, really depends
              on the individual strain of plant you are growing. plants behave MUCH
              differently outdoors, and you'll find that certain ones are better suited to this
              type of growing. i have a batch of clones i'm preparing for outdoors, of a plant
              that is nice but not my best inside. outdoors she blows the other inside
              plants away because she flowers early and gets mega-potent in the natural
              light. so you may want to try a few different plants outside, to see which ones
              do best...
              best of luck!

              holy shit, dr.A, no wonder you're keeping things quiet! or is that irish's jungle?
              go man go!

              greenbear, good to see ya bro! hope all is okay w/you :-)

              sub, i be emailin' ya brah


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 00:43:55 5/20/99
             FROM - sand flea
             peaceness, personally i wouldn't worry about it. outdoor plants seem to be
             much more tolerant of minor extremes than indoors. i live in the desert and
             our tap water (very hard) is very alkaline and it's been used for years directly
             from the tap w/o any probs, not to mention the alkaline soil they grow in. my
             only ph prob ever outdoors has been too acidic when growing near cypress
             trees. it looked like N poisoning but recovered after a good dose of wood
             ash solution.

             good luck with yours


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 00:39:01 5/20/99
             FROM - greenbear
             We are still fighting and free!!!Thank goodness for Prop.215!! And thanks to
             all that have


              TOPIC - creek water:ph
              DATE - 23:37:00 5/19/99
              FROM - peaceness
              hi guys, i am doing my first outdoor grow this year and will be watering my
              plants from a nearby creek. now i tested the ph of the creek water and it
              tested at 8.5. should i lower the ph to 7.0 before i water plants, or is it ok to
              water them with the creeks natural 8.5 ph water?-thanks guys.-peaceness


              TOPIC - Stonerg UV light
              DATE - 19:54:49 5/19/99
              FROM - Thunderheart
              from what i have always heard, the glass has little or no effect on the light
              spectrum, but it comes in real handy in controlling the heat from the bulb. it
              will allow you to get your plants closer to the fixture. of course i don't work for
              a light manufacturer so i could be wrong.



              TOPIC - Dr.A
              DATE - 19:49:02 5/19/99
              FROM - sb
              Yup. that space is 2'x5.5'x 6'(H).It's quite nice for 4 larger plants.
              The 270 would be adequate @45W sqft(I think Vic's is closer to 30 but uses
              a mover) which has worked very well for me in the past, but I'd go with a 400
              if I was shopping for new gear.


              TOPIC - Dr.A
              DATE - 19:48:56 5/19/99
              FROM - sb
              Yup. that space is 2'x5.5'x 6'(H).It's quite nice for 4 larger plants.
              The 270 would be adequate @45W sqft(I think Vic's is closer to 30 but uses
              a mover) which has worked very well for me in the past, but I'd go with a 400
              if I was shopping for new gear.


              TOPIC - rock phosphate
              DATE - 18:54:55 5/19/99
              FROM - Vic High
              Budm - I had the same question a while back about rock phosphate. I think it
              was Shabang that enlightened me to the fact that rock phosphate is slower
              to break down than bone meal so is probably of little use in our hobby. I
              know from first hand experience that bone meal in the super soil mix
              provides enough phosperous for two flower crops with no drop in flower
              production in the second crop so there is no problem with the bone meal
              being a slow enough release. The problem with insufficient phospherous is
              more likely to show in the early stages of flower if you are using small pots
              and the soil hasn't had enough time to break down the bone meal. One
              source of organic fast release P would be high P bat guano. Direction on the
              bag I have (Western Harvest Farms)say to fill a tea-bag with the guano and
              suspend in a pail of water. Then simply water the plants with the water from
              this pail. I have done a variation of this during the first couple of weeks of
              12/12 by adding a teaspoon to the top of each 10 gallon planter. To be
              honest, I've never noticed a benefit but never took the time to do any
              controlled trials. I'm usually comparing different plants so want to treat every
              plant the same, hehe.


              TOPIC - Dr A
              DATE - 18:40:01 5/19/99
              FROM - irish
              hey doc , this is the reason why i had asked about the blueberry x NL,
              earlier. sorry for the mix up, you may enjoy the pics.


                                   Link: dr. atomic's lab


              TOPIC - wrong address below
              DATE - 18:28:00 5/19/99
              FROM - drA
              sorry for the OTP; fat fingers


              TOPIC - closets
              DATE - 18:25:47 5/19/99
              FROM - drA
              hey, 180, you just keep bangin' on that board, i need all the luck i can get!

              sb, is that 5.5' dimension the length of the closet? a recent unexpected
              monetary windfall will result in a closet of my own sooner than i expected. i
              was hoping that a 270 agro-sun with some supplemental floros would be
              adequate for a 2x3x5.5 setup.


             TOPIC - Rock Phosphate
             DATE - 17:57:47 5/19/99
             FROM - Budm
             Hi All,
             Asked a while back no responce, try again. Saw "triple rock phosphate" at
             the store 0-45-0, in a pellet/rock form. Does any one know how to use, or if to
             use, mix in soil? top dress? how much? etc. Could be benefical in flowering,
             isnt " Blossom Blood " a phosphate? Thanks in advance.



             TOPIC - uv light and glass
             DATE - 15:44:36 5/19/99
             FROM - stonerg
             Does adding an extra layer of glass between bulb and plant decrease u-v
             light? a salesperson told me it did; but he was trying to sell me something
             I sorta would think that the bulb's glass would block it out anyways. ?


             TOPIC - thanks 180
             DATE - 08:07:43 5/19/99
             FROM - funkdified
             No I didn't post earlier. I only meant that I would be moving them from
             indoors to outdoors. I have read that you should gradually acclimate them
             and that was the what I was wanting to make sure of. Your response made
             me curious though. I know that the amount of time that flowering can occur is
             slightly variable depending on the strain, but I was under the impression that
             flowering would only occur if there was enough time for for the elusive
             phytochrome (sp?) to build up to critical levels. I will be moving them out
             soon, and the amount of daylight will be around 15 hrs. I currently have them
             under 23 hrs. From everything that I have read, this is not enough dark time
             for any strain to flower. Could anyone else shed some light, or darkness, on
             this for me?


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 21:17:09 5/18/99
              FROM - sb
              Actually those 2- 400s have just recently found a home in the 2x5.5'chateau
              du clothes.They're usually seem hanging around (I know,I know.. but things
              are much funnier when stoned (hehe)) a 4 x 4 area so most of my limited
              experience has been in the 50W sqft range.
              I share the opinion of your friend reguarding soil grown, larger
              plants.Buckets and bushes rule! I'm also leaning toward the idea that tying,
              NOT pruning is the way to best achieve this.Both the cali-o and the champ
              are tied and left unpruned.I would have done the same with the ubc, but it
              was always behind the other strains in height....you get the picture I'm sure.
              I've never grown the mcw.Maybe someday.Peace!



              TOPIC - SB a question
              DATE - 20:43:06 5/18/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi All

              SB glad alls well with you;-) A question, the garden that you speak of is in
              the area of my friends asfar as watts per sqft. His is 80 per sqft, with two
              400's one of each type also, do most strains finish sooner in that higher
              wattage garden? Just curious as the 80 per sqft finishes on average 1 week
              before most in the 40-50 watt range, with no Co2, growing in soil, bush
              style.Do you still have the MCW going? Thanks and take care.


              TOPIC - pics
              DATE - 19:39:36 5/18/99
              FROM - sb
              here are a couple of pics I found laying around...They happen to be of a 75W
              sqft closet setup. 5 gal buckets and half and half hps/mh.
              the UBC1, cali-o and champagne have all been in flower for 25 days.All are
              super green and healthy.The HPS is lying to the lens and trying to make my
              grow look brown.(I had to call that out.haha)
              sorry for the poor quality.



                                      Link: 25daze


              TOPIC - OT1 & KQ
              DATE - 17:11:59 5/18/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi, I think I figured out my prob with PGP, im going to download a new
              browser and enable it, as to eliminate the "paste" to c-board process.Ill do
              that tonight and I email you both tommrow, thanks for your paitence,(both of
              Sorry for OTP.

              PS: Chemo when the PR cross is done, your welcome to some, stay in


              TOPIC - Chemo and ALL, DrA
              DATE - 15:33:46 5/18/99
              FROM - Blazer
              Heya Chemo! Man I'm glad to see You again. I have a couple pleasant
              suprises I've been saving for this reunion.
              ALL I accidentally welched on a seed trade w/ Chemo 4ever ago and it still
              wieghs heavy on My shoulders. If You'd be kind enough to RIDE MY ASS until
              I make up for it, I'd appreciate it and deserve it.
              Chemo I was playing w/ a Kalimist and stressed her hard enough(finally!) to
              produce 2 "gonads" and self pollenate her as well as a Sensi NL5,AK47 and
              a couple others. Supply is very limited and I have been holding these in hope
              of seeing You again. This is My 1st try at this self pollenation, but the seeds
              in theory should produce all females. The AK47 just knocks My socks off
              HARD, she's the total package IMO or atleast the 1 mom I have is. She's a
              very managable sativa, I like keeping things short and tight. She is a
              manicuring dream too, just all bud w/ an occasional leaf or 2 to trim. The wife
              calls it pineapple concentrate in taste and flavor, I don't have that accute of a
              sense of taste or smell, I just know she rocks My world. So My friend they are
              Yours, big ass fat(and very viable I hope) looking seeds. I'll email You asap,
              I'm coaching the kiddo's softball team and have a few other balls I'm juggling
              too so it may take Me a bit to get w/ You. I just need to make good on this
              deal as it bothers Me to string on a friend. My email is above too BTW. TIA

              Dr.A Thanks for the kind words! 1 must be careful to not sound like a friggin
              "know it all", I know that's not Me. If I don't atleast try to learn something new
              everyday, it's a day wasted IMO. Good to see You again aswell, the public
              boards sent Me into hiding a long time ago. I think I've found a place that
              seems damn civil for the mess We call the web. I hope it stays that way;)
              Well off to the ball field, Peace.


              TOPIC - NCGA
              DATE - 14:23:41 5/18/99
              FROM - Subcool
              Anything I can do NC just ask above is my e-mail.


             TOPIC - early flowers
             DATE - 14:09:31 5/18/99
             FROM - homer
             My grow area is 22x10.in dirt with organic mix
             i vegged for 30 days under 3 m.h.
             i am 11 days into flower with 6 lights.3 m.h. 3 h.p.s. and holy crap do i have
             i usually dont get flowers until the 3rd week
             is something wrong??? or am i in for a treat??
             any input would be great


             TOPIC - haze
             DATE - 11:26:32 5/18/99
             FROM - chemo
             I'd definitely be interested in pure haze seeds, that's one i've been trying to
             get too, although now it seems to be more available. e mail me please



              TOPIC - funkdified, drA
              DATE - 06:17:03 5/18/99
              FROM - 180
              funkdified, maybe i missed an earlier post. are you changing your lighting
              schedule, or just moving the plants outside?
              if you're just moving them outdoors, you don't need to be carrying them in
              and out (risky). just put them in a spot where they don't get direct sunlight for
              a few days (this will protect them from shock; the sun is very bright and has
              lots of UV). then you can move them into full sun and they should adjust
              if you are changing their light schedule, you can check a newspaper to see
              sunrise/sunset times for your area, then figure the daylength. if it is alot
              shorter (more than an hour or so) than the amount of day you are giving them
              indoors, then they may want to start flowering right away when they go out
              into the shorter day. they should recover from this as the day gets longer
              (longest day outdoors is Jun.22), but if you want them to stay in veg growth
              during the transition, you should gradually shorten their indoor "day" to bring
              it into line with the outdoor day, before you move them outside.

              hey doctor, glad to see you (still, despite efforts to blow yerself to kingdom
              come ;-)) among the living! i've been blowing shit up a bit myself lately, i'm
              afraid. something to do with that "one true way" bizness, heehee. best of luck
              with your garden this summer (i'm knocking on wood).

              good to see people hooking up here, overgrow tha govt. and all that good



              TOPIC -
              DATE - 22:50:02 5/17/99
              FROM - KQ
              Budm, freemail has been down for days now. If you sent mail there, it may
              be days before I get it. there is always hotmail and macbox.


             TOPIC - boom!
             DATE - 19:39:14 5/17/99
             FROM - drA
             well, not quite, but i found out how important a vent hole is...popped the top
             off the pvc pipe on my last shot at hash oil and scared myself half to death,

             i thought for a moment that the gloves had failed me, sub, you saved another

             blaze i think i will try your gatorade bottles, my yields are still crappy, although
             my "compost" may be worse than yours. it's good to read your posts again,
             you have a way
             of presenting your experience so that it doesn't sound like the one true way...



             TOPIC - Hi sub
             DATE - 19:08:34 5/17/99
             FROM - ncga
             Nico email me about web space if needed

             have soem questions for you



              TOPIC - Chemo
              DATE - 18:20:56 5/17/99
              FROM - Budm
              Email me


              TOPIC - Kenkeman
              DATE - 16:01:13 5/17/99
              FROM - Mota
              Estas Vivo! E-mail me at myerba@mailcity.com.



              TOPIC - Chemo - Haze
              DATE - 12:11:47 5/17/99
              FROM - mighty mite
              hey chemo, I have 4 PURE haze seeds.. you probably already have haze, but
              I thought I would offer them to you if you want.. I don't have much use for pure
              sativas, a haze plant wouldn't fit any of my setups or outdoor gardens.



              TOPIC - Blaze
              DATE - 11:50:20 5/17/99
              FROM - Chemo
              Hey man what's up? Haven't talked to you in ages. E mail me and tell me
              what's new.


             TOPIC - PR
             DATE - 11:44:27 5/17/99
             FROM - Chemo
             It's nice to see some others interested in classic sativa strains. I've been
             working with thai and will start malawi soon. I'd be very interested in
             Panama Red if and when someone gets viable seeds. I'd be willing to trade
             for some of my sativas. Thanx in advance



              TOPIC - potluck etc.
              DATE - 09:19:14 5/17/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi All,

              potluck-afoaf's flower closet is about the same size as what your working
              with, so ill give ya some of his experiences hopefully you can draw some
              help from it. His flower area is 5' x 2' x 8'(10sqft the hights nice for the
              occasional visiting sativa)its lit by a 400mh and a 400hps together for
              800watts of mixed spectrum = 80watts per sqft, he uses BCGAs Super Soil
              mix with castings, in pots of 2-5 gallons in size, the flower closet is prepetual
              so when a lady is harvested, a girl or two take its place from a 6sqft veg
              closet thats lit by a 400mh. This presents a real juggling act, as its hard to
              have the exact Veg/graduate to fill the "hole" left by the harvested ladie. He
              has to resort to somtimes replacing two girls in 2gal pots, when a 5gal pot is
              harvested, and the use of cardboard boxes, books, and such is needed to
              bring new girls up to the right hight, untill they streach. The average amount
              of ladies in the 10sqft closet is from 6-8 in pots of 2-5 gallons, plus from
              time-to-time theres the occasional 1 gallon pot with a small clone in it, to fill
              a hole in the canopy. Its a real job trying to keep the right veg's ready to fill the
              vacancies in the flower closet, rather than trying to be hyper-accurate in the
              "juggling act", hes reverted to, rearanging and flexibility of expectations.
              If I assume correctly you are using one closet, for your garden, If so the best
              tip I can give that was passed along to me was, try to begin 12/12, when your
              canopy is 75% full.
              Now selection of pots, prunining/topping, and genetic traits,( some strains
              are very stressed by being rootbound, hence they need larger pots)and the
              clone's columar structure, all are things that warrant consideration, however
              its a process that is learned crop by crop, as you get more and more familer
              with the strains your working with, and how they best lend themselves to your
              gardening prefrences.
              I hope this helps in some way;-))

              67ed- Sagarmatha says that the dormancy/desacation period for fresh
              seeds is 1-2 months, however Ive seen good results(80% germ) in 20 days,
              bear in mind, that the seeds were removed from the flower upon harvest, that
              may have shaved a few days in the wait towards viability IMO.

              Nico- The PR af is working on will be a cross (PR X NevsHaze) and then with
              any luck the next pollination will be a PR x PR, being that they will be from two
              diffrent crops may be better IMO, versus the fact that if the first set of PR
              seeds had been viable enough to produce a M & F, this way if the gene pool
              is not so closley related it might produce better results, I think.

              Dr E- If your lurking still no mail. Keep trying.I hope alls well with you.

              OT1 & KQ- Still getting the kinks out of PGP, Ill write ya both this evening.




              TOPIC - advice needed
              DATE - 07:29:40 5/17/99
              FROM - potluck
              Hello everyone, i've been posting on cannabis.com recently without any luck.
              It seems that there are a lot of immature people over there(except for uncle
              ben!). Basically I have a 2foot x 4foot closet to grow in(8square feet). The
              seeds i have that i'm about to start are Oasis(all female) and Blue
              Moonshine. Both of these are just about pure indicas. I was gonna grow
              twice as many blue moonshine, that way i figure if half are males, i'll have the
              same number of females that i do for Oasis. My question is, in that 8 square
              feet, how many large indicas could i fit? I've got a bunch of 5 gallon
              rubbermaid containers i'm gonna grow in, and 12 fit in the closet just
              perfectly. I want to grow large plants, but i'd also like to grow 12 plants, so i
              can sort thru more seeds and get clones for my next growing attempt. I
              would clone the two best plants from each variety and then grow the rest of
              the seeds i have left. If anyone can give me any advice concerning how i
              could do this, it would be *greatly* appreciated.
              p.s. i know if i wanted to grow 12 plants in that area i could just grow them
              until they are 6 inches or a foot and induce flowering, but i wanted larger
              individual yields per plant.
              *Thank You* and safe smokin'!!!!!!!!!!


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 05:46:42 5/17/99
              FROM - Nico
              Budm ~ My bro would kiss your feet for a try at some of those Panama Red
              seed ! lol


             TOPIC - indoors to outdoors
             DATE - 04:51:23 5/17/99
             FROM - funkdified
             Does 2 weeks of adjustment time sound good to you all? I figured that I
             would add an hour or two of extra outdoor time per day until the two weeks
             was over.
             Thanks for any help.


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 21:05:07 5/16/99
              FROM - KQ
              Pi, I mailed you at hotmail a day or two ago. I figure you don't check it much


             TOPIC - Im back!
             DATE - 18:27:01 5/16/99
             FROM - Mighty Mite
             Hey all! Long time no chat! I haven't been around the internet community
             much in the past few months, although I tried to keep in touch with a few
             people as much as I could through icq. My internet connection was unstable
             for a while (rodgers @home) and was down for a time period of almost a
             month (network card), however, I am back online, and will be posting much
             more often!

             Spring is here! Weathers been beautiful so far this year, and I am so excited
             about the upcoming outdoor season. This, will probably be my last year for a
             major outdoor project as risks & rip offs are starting to outweigh the benifits.
             Last years season was a bit of a letdown, however, I did up with almost a 1/2
             lb of seeded nl#5 x seatle super skunk bud which kept me in smoke for
             about 4-5 months. I did score some Mighty mite sensi bud, some mighty
             mite seeded, and one of vics blueberrys which I only pulled a 1/4 ounce off
             of. :( I have a few blueberrys going out this year, which I plan to make
             crosses, however I have no more seeds left, so i am hoping on a male & a
             female with my 2 seedlings! (fingers and toes crossed). the 1/4 ounce of
             blueberry I had was huge hit with my buddies!

             I am going to be making some wonderful crosses with these strains during
             this summer, which will be offered at the end of the season!

             I have put out a bunch of clones from some local growers, and will be
             obtaining some more as time goes by, so I should have a wonderful
             season! (should..)

             I tried to sprout some p.75 seeds I obained back a few months ago, however
             out of the 6 seeds I had, only one sprouted. I was wondering if anyone had
             any p.88 or newer seeds they wouldn't mind trading me for?

             pi: I love your post on how to make honey oil. That sounds like a very easy
             and most effective was of producing it then the method I have. Thank you
             very much, and I will give it a try after my crop comes in!

             Thanks alot everyone for your genetics, I have been spreading all the strains
             I have obtained. I have been spreading them throughout my community
             which has significantly bettered all our commerical & recreational marijuana
             in our area. I would like to send a special thanks to vic high, toker2, ncga,
             dank, stray dog & kumquat for your generocity! Sorry if I left anyone out (which
             I know I did).

             If anyone is looking for software, give me a shout. I have a huge collection of
             games & application!



             TOPIC - Budm! You have mail!
             DATE - 15:52:54 5/16/99
             FROM - Kenkeman
             Elvis LIVES!


             TOPIC - germinating
             DATE - 15:14:16 5/16/99
             FROM - mossaphi Kabbar
             I bought seeds about one year ago and last summer i grew 5 of them with a
             decent harvest that lasted me from october till now. the remaining seeds
             have been laying in a ashtray for about a year now and i recently tried to
             germanate them in water to no avail. they have been in the water for 72
             hours now with no change. Is there anyway of saving these seeds or are
             they finished for good. Id appreciate any guidance on how to get them to

             Thank you, Mossaphi


             TOPIC - weed in mtl
             DATE - 14:48:01 5/16/99
             FROM - fortham st.crois
             anyone know of a reputable source on the internet ot by seeds from for less
             than 55$ CDN, im growing this summer in MTL and could use all the tips i
             can get my hands on, especially where to get seeds (kinda important).
             Thanks in advance


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 14:38:55 5/16/99
              FROM - 67ed
              Budm: I meant to say the N. Haze seeds are about done, not the PR seeds,
              but I may be getting PR seeds in early July.


             TOPIC - haze
             DATE - 14:35:28 5/16/99
             FROM - 67ed
             The PR seeds are about ready; need about 3 more weeks to make sure
             they're viable. I picked some immature seeds 4 days ago, and put them in a
             moist towel, but none have sprouted yet. I'll email you tonight or tomorrow.
             Vic: Think I'll get some Romulan Surprise from HS and see how they do


              TOPIC - pizza, low humidity
              DATE - 14:17:35 5/16/99
              FROM - Reuben
              pizza, the best method is a store-bought humidifier. they are not too
              expensive (US$25-50). check discount places like kmart, walmart, etc. they
              use tap water, evaporate it through a wicking medium with a built-in fan.
              note: the bigger the water tank, the less often you need to refill it. it's not even
              worth it to buy one that's less than 2 gallons, imho. also, buy a couple large
              bottles of 3% hydrogen peroxide solution (disinfectant, available at
              drugstores) because you DEFINITELY need to add about 1 tablespoon
              (15ml) per gallon of water to the water tank, to keep it from getting full of mold
              and algae. otherwise, it will become a mold factory and make your plants
              very sick!

              if excess water is not a problem, you can also use misters to humidify, like
              they do in greenhouses. but with electrical equipment around, this is NOT


              TOPIC - low humidity
              DATE - 11:34:34 5/16/99
              FROM - pizza
              i cant seem to get the humidity up past 50% can anyone suggest a cheap
              method to increase


             TOPIC - ben, your pH problem
             DATE - 10:09:28 5/16/99
             FROM - rosetta stone
             ben, if you aerate the water after adding the fox farm, i believe the pH will
             drop back into acceptable range within 24hrs. get a small aquarium air
             pump and "airstone" and let it bubble in your bucket overnight...


             TOPIC - Budm! you have mail!
             DATE - 06:06:41 5/16/99
             FROM - kenkeman
             Nice report on the PR....July's crop should be bountiful and full of seeds...


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 19:33:13 5/15/99
              FROM - trelaway
              On the heels of a major bust of a marijuana grow operation last week,
              Parksville RCMP
              have announced a new task force to stem the tide of the illegal substance.

              On Wednesday, police seized some 700 plants and about $3,000 in
              equipment from a
              commercial premises in Errington rented specifically for the purpose of
              growing the illicit

              The same day, local police announced the formation of an "intensive
              enforcement initiative
              to combat illegal marijuana production and distribution within the area."

              Police say the unit was formed in response to "several violent incidents"
              perpetrated in the community involving individuals associated with the local
              drug trade.

              In the first month of operation, police report 20 search warrants were
              executed. Grow
              operations that were discovered ranged from one light bulb in a shed to a
              underground bunker with 10 rooms and 60 lights.

              More than 4,000 plants were seized during those searches, along with some
              $150,000 in
              sophisticated growing equipment.

              Police say more busts may be coming soon as their investigations continue.
              As well, the
              detachment stressed that local law enforcement officers are working with a
              federal Crown
              prosecutor in Nanaimo to seek severe penalties where a commercial
              operation can be
              proved or where children have been endangered.

              So far, the new unit, dubbed the "green team" has led to criminal charges
              against 20
              people, chiefly for possession and trafficking of marijuana, as well as
              charges of possession
              of stolen property and theft of electrical power.

              According to police, grow operations in the area generally involve rented
              converted to the cause of pot production.

              In many instances, hydro-electric power is stolen by by-passing meter
              systems, or
              illegitimate occupants simply disappear before paying their bills.

              Damage to these buildings is common, and police report that some of the
              rented houses
              have burned to the ground.

              "Investigators were especially upset that in come cases small children were
              living virtually
              surrounded by growing marijuana, chemicals and unsafe high voltage
              lighting with open
              wires," says a report from the Parksville RCMP detachment.


              TOPIC - busts
              DATE - 19:12:49 5/15/99
              FROM - trelaway
              I heard it on, I think, the Q on friday but it may have been CBC 1.


              TOPIC - ph
              DATE - 15:45:37 5/15/99
              FROM - ben
              my tap is 150 ppm the low ph is from fox farm 3tbs per gal


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 14:48:11 5/15/99
              FROM - oldtimer1
              Vic and Budm you have mail. Ot1


             TOPIC - busts
             DATE - 13:54:04 5/15/99
             FROM - Vic High
             Trelaway - I've been listening to the Q for abitthis morning but haven't heard
             anything yet. Thanks for the headsup. In the last wave of busts, the whole
             lower island was affected over a few days. I hope Duncan and Victoria aren't
             next. Frenchie, hope all is well with you if you are lurking.

             Occam - pi is having trouble posting and asked me to pass on a message
             that he tried emailing you again.

             Blazer, those are just plain old romberry above. A more complete
             explanaition is down below.


             TOPIC - The pic up top?
             DATE - 12:47:51 5/15/99
             FROM - Blazer
             Hey fellas, anyone now what strains are up there? Most look identicle to My
             AK47! WOOHOO that 1 plant gets My rocks off hard! The total package IMO;)
             Thats the only plant I've ever gotten from A'dam that's a keeper out of many.
             WE have made the best strains I've ever seen in N.America and they are
             free! Screw the tourist A'dam weeds IMO;)
             Blaze out


             TOPIC - Sub
             DATE - 12:44:07 5/15/99
             FROM - Blazer
             I've had wonderful luck w.o pvc or the pepper shaker config.. Nestaa was the
             1 that brought this to Me months ago and Az, Rhu, NL, IMGC, Nestaa and I
             are all using the method I described. The butane will travel thru 1 hole easily
             as it's under pressure, it'll blow thru 1 hole as well as it will many IMO. I just
             loved the coffee filter idea the most as it made My oil the cleanest yet. IMGC
             and I met in Texas a couple weeks back and combined our techniques w/
             His knowledge of making oil in the old days, I like Our plan the best. But just
             like growing, I bet there are a few diff. ways to achieve the same results. The
             hardest part IMO is finding affordable containers of butane. I found 300 ml
             bottles for 6$ while the cannucks are buying 4 packs of 8oz. botlles for under
             10$! I dont get that at all! BTW they have found it in Ontario and BC at those
             prices for You in Canada. I emptied the HW(the only 1 I found that had it in
             bigger sizes!) store of all they had and they havent restocked any yet. I'm
             looking into My welding supply connections to see about BIG cylinders at
             wholesale prices. I'll let Ya's know what I find.
             Peace Folks, Blazer


              TOPIC - nanaimo busts
              DATE - 10:52:19 5/15/99
              FROM - trelaway
              I heard they got like fifty growers with a task force set up to tarket indoor

              Just a bunch of people stealing hydro again?


              TOPIC - BC
              DATE - 09:52:23 5/15/99
              FROM - Ash
              I love THC


              TOPIC - Pan Red
              DATE - 09:00:48 5/15/99
              FROM - Budm
              Hi All, Well if any one is following the story of the one PR seedling that
              germed out of the 10 beans that were attempted, he/she is at about 1 month
              old 12" tall and 7 nodes, the distance between node 3 and 4 is about 5"'s, its
              starting IMO to show satavia traits, and it also has a unique feature, running
              almost the entire lentgh of the stem from node 2 to the top are dark red
              stripes. Ive decided to cross this one with Nevs Haze, as my friend in
              Panama has indicated that at years end there will be mare PR seeds
              avaiable, thus the concern of this being a once-in-a-lifetime chance, to breed
              a set of real PR seeds will have another chance.

              Nico- Best of Luck, Ive worked with MicroSofts "Front Page" wysiwys program
              (what you see is what you get) for building web sites, and its very easy.
              MSofts web site sells a trial version of it for about 8$us, so if its not what you
              want, no big expenditure done. And its just point and click, no HTML skills
              needeed. And the whole Msoft website was developed with Front Page, and
              it looks great, Ive seen many Front Page developed sites, that look as if a
              HTML artist costing big$$$ built it, good stuff. HTH

              KQ- I was able to decrypt OTs email, but im having a problem with yours, Ill
              figure it out today and mail ya.

              Have a great weekend all, and stay safe



              TOPIC - Aust/NZ site ..
              DATE - 06:47:08 5/15/99
              FROM - Nico
              Vic , do you think you could give me a little insite into setting up a page like
              you have ? *** Email me Aussies and Kiwi's , we'll get this shit 'a movin'.. all I
              have is time at the moment .

              180 ,
              Many States of Australia are decriminalized and large scale grows (outdoor)
              are big in both countries.
              Indoor is pretty big too .. Hydroponics in Australia is getting bigger , though
              NZ hasn't court up yet..

              Thanks for the info ...
              anyone that can help me with my task at hand .. email me at the above


             TOPIC -
             DATE - 04:44:27 5/15/99
             FROM - subcool
             i'd suggest gloves for the static electricity.
             i also i'm interested in BC give me the scoop


              TOPIC -
              DATE - 04:35:43 5/15/99
              FROM - subcool
              so blazz would one hole at the bottom of the cylinder be better than the
              peper config?
              i'm going to try this today
              i'm using 1-1/4 pvc thats 18" long


              TOPIC - Moving to BC
              DATE - 00:34:37 5/15/99
              FROM - ^~^Probert^~^
              Is it worth it to move to B.C. to get involved. Im looking to move in the the next
              year and it its either. Northern cali, B.C. or amsterdam. please respond.
              Thank you all

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