BC Growers Association

BCG Chat Archives


                   TOPIC - vic, you're fine
                   DATE - 05:30:33 7/01/99
                   FROM - 180
                   vic, i politely (hehe) disagree with eric's post below.
                   we all know that the hempqc link brings in lurkers and newbies. most of them have the sense not to post irrelevant
                   questions, because they read the board and see what sort of discussion is going on. the ones who DO post the
                   irrelevant or inappropriate Q's MUST be discouraged or "led back onto the path", otherwise bcga chat becomes
                   scattered and useless like some other chat boards whose names i won't mention.

                   if a poster can't figure out that the link from hempqc IS (as described on the hempqc site menu) a LINK, leading to
                   another URL, then they OBVIOUSLY NEED a wake up call.

                   no one should be stumbling around the internet like a drunk, anymore than they should be out in the street, stumbling
                   around in traffic. (nothing against drunks, but you know what i mean).

                   and your comment about parents' "irrational" anger is right on the money. you as the operator of the site have an
                   obligation to exclude minors, for their own protection. if they conduct themselves in a mature fashion and fool us all into
                   believing they are "self-responsible", then perhaps they also have the sense to behave that way in the real world as
                   well, but the ones who act like KIDS really do need to be sent packing, it's the only RESPONSIBLE thing to do!



                   TOPIC - ATTN: Budm
                   DATE - 22:26:40 6/30/99
                   FROM - KGB
                   Hey bud, couldn't open that PGP message you sent. Could ya try it again, just post it to me in ADPC...thanks.



                   TOPIC - Smack Dad,180 et all Pyroclay
                   DATE - 18:38:39 6/30/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   The MH works fine w/o the ignitor cap. needed to start the HPS bulb. Most types like that have a switch to go from 1 to
                   the other... Read more and check back. I make HPS ballasts into MH ballasts all the time when I find a need. It's cake.
                   The other way around is tricky. I use MH ballasts w. Iwasaki 940 hps conversion bulbs personally for the end of flower,
                   they have the best spectrums and life IMO. BUT man they are EXSPENSIVE as hell. How do Ya put a price on
                   something like that though when we expect only the best? I recomend buying HPS ballasts now and merely
                   disconnecting the ignitor for the HPS bulb when using MH bulbs. I learned that 1 the hard/ exspensive way too sadly.
                   FLOATIES in the juice. Most re dislove I've found, but not all. I can't see it being detrimantal as its still aerobic(not
                   smelly like stagnant anerobic bacteria).
                   *Pyroclay is very neat shit as mine contains 97 essential trace elements in usable form. I tried allowing drippers to
                   spread it, I may try the pany hose idea NL is soo found of. What's He doin w/ so many panies anyhow? LOL 1 of them
                   under each drip line may do the trick IMO. I just had soo many other variables going w/ My bioponics that I didnt want
                   another variable to consider and dropped that plan. After 1 more batch of strait GH hydro nutes w/ a few additives while
                   still running a biofilter, I've decided it's time to fill the res. again w/ all the micro organisms I told most of You about last
                   time. I think the yield was identicle, the only slight difference was in resin production IMO. The buds dry a lil less sticky
                   w/o bioponics than with. Otherwise it was a total success, I just need to dial in the food for the bacteria now I think, it
                   seemed to thrive w/ nutrients alone, but I can't help to wonder..Here We go AGAIN! LOL
                   Blaze out
                   OH BTW..It's incredible to see some of the faces from HBC and Our other lil hide outs bringing Our collected info to a
                   new group of Gents...Sharing is where it's at fellas! It'll get You FAR w/ Most of Us here;)


                   TOPIC - irish
                   DATE - 18:20:40 6/30/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Hey Irish, your right, that is probably where the confusion comes from. Just followed that link route for the first time and
                   it can give a false impression. We'll need to get RC to change that link somehow. Billy, if this is where you came from,
                   Eric is right, I owe you an apology. I'm sorry, it's not clear from that route that these message boards aren't part of
                   Heavan's Stairway. Hope you understand.


                   TOPIC - seeds
                   DATE - 18:03:41 6/30/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Nah Eric, wouldn't hold it against you, you were willing to speak up with your known name. Something I respect. About
                   the seed thing, I tried changing the wording again. However, that seed page lists a few vendors to choose from and no
                   place does it suggest buying direct. So I stand by my comments. You see, what we do is illegal (not to be
                   condescending). One thing that will get us noticed is angry parents and this could bring more heat than any of us
                   needs. That kind of heat is usually irrational.


                   TOPIC - the billy "issue"
                   DATE - 17:53:40 6/30/99
                   FROM - irish
                   the question asked about the codes next to the strains. this leads me to believe that billy came here by way of
                   hempqc's split chat screen. along with many more of the "hi. i like to get high" posts.

                   billy... e mail the hempqc address directly, this is just a message board that happens to be linked to their website. or
                   click onto the orders page.

                   mead 'e ate. irish.


                   TOPIC - Vic high
                   DATE - 15:47:38 6/30/99
                   FROM - Eric

                   actually i think you owe Billy an apology because i just clicked the link to your main page and it still says
                   " strains OFFERED by the association"

                   Now i know and many others know where you stand on selling seeds but to a new comer it would be confusing.

                   Another thing I notice is the hard ass you have developed over the last few weeks...kind of smart assy if I must
                   say..now Im noone to talk..but I thought you liked to stay ABOVE that. More of a peaceful guy from what I drew of your
                   internet personality...But you know i dont care...just thought after reading SEVERAL posts from you and noticing it I
                   would post it..hope you dont hold this against me :)


                   TOPIC - pi mon
                   DATE - 13:58:45 6/30/99
                   FROM - nl420
                   You have what you need buddy.. All you need to do is mix it up and use it.. Happy trails..

                   On the "floaties" - I first used the off the shelf product before mixin my own.. The floaties are normal after standing
                   awhile.. When I asked my hydro store how long they had it before I bought it they said it sat on the shelf for more than
                   a year.. Made no difference here.. Nesta knows what the floaties are, Blaze ask him to pop in and make a post or
                   pass it on to you and I to post.. I rubber band some of the wifes panty hose to the mouth of the bottle I use so no
                   floaties get into my mix.. Please no comments on that.. ROFL..



                   TOPIC - Damn Math, NL
                   DATE - 13:39:49 6/30/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   Man this conversion shit gets Me every time. I meant 500 ml's of h2o, not 1 liter(1000ml's). I add 5 ml's to each gallon
                   of res. solution whether it be GH nutes or any other.
                   Yes I needed warm h2o to fully disolve the sugars and the shelf life is questionable IMO. I had 1 batch that after a few
                   months, it had a few floaties in it. I used it after shaking well and all seemed fine. I think the juice my get "pulp like"
                   after a long time of sitting, but still does the same job well IMO. I only have a second here so My post is brief. I'll catch
                   all the rest later;)
                   Peace, Blazer


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 13:35:58 6/30/99
                   FROM - SmackDaddy
                   That,s what puzzels me, the mantanace men swap them all the time but I can't go up to them to ask. They might ask
                   to many questions. The box the light come in said it would work on the Halide ballast. This is the first time I have ever
                   had this type of lighting and it will take some time to get used to it. Should I even worry about the HPS with the MH? It
                   lights up just fine.


                   TOPIC - Correction!!!
                   DATE - 13:27:08 6/30/99
                   FROM - SmackDaddy
                   Forget the first Question right below this message! Sorry I jumped the gun and forgot the reading process. This is my
                   first time on here.


                   TOPIC - light
                   DATE - 13:26:48 6/30/99
                   FROM - cedartop
                   smack, it sounds like you have a mercury vapor/halide instead of a hps


                   TOPIC - Smell,Taste,High
                   DATE - 13:13:13 6/30/99
                   FROM - SmackDaddy
                   I would like to know of a very low smell type will growing as I have nosey nieghbors. I would sill like to have a good
                   taste if possible with a good high. My second question...I have a 400 watt ballast for hps and mh, when I try the hps
                   light it only glows a dull errie light. The box the light come in says to disconnect any peaking capacitor. My ballast is a
                   commercial lighting ballast made for both lights I thought, it is a GE M-59 Merc/Halide. I only seen one capacitor as it
                   had do be dissasembeled and modified for my purpose. Do I disconnect this capacitor completely and tie the two wires
                   togather or just disconnect one lead and tape it off? Any help would be appriciated. Peace be with you.


                   TOPIC - Billy
                   DATE - 11:35:00 6/30/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Billy, I'll give you the standard responce that I give all those who email me about the same thing. No one here sells
                   seeds. Period. The BCGA webpage is pretty clear about this I believe. The fact that you come here and ask this
                   question begs a question from me. Are you mature enough to be growing? I'll clarify.... growing is illegal. There are
                   some places where you can go to jail for growing. You must be on top of things and follow some basic rules to protect
                   your safety. The fact that you posted that question makes me wonder about your ability to do that. Me nor anyone here
                   wants to be responcible for you getting into trouble. I hope you understand. The short answer? Contact the seed
                   vendor, they will inform you of the process.

                   BOB - all things aside, viable THC producing cannabis seeds are illegal to posess. That must be understood, despite
                   the lax way it is dealt with. IMHO, they are nothing to worry about, but the cops DO have the power to charge you if
                   they desire.


                   TOPIC - 180-sweetwater
                   DATE - 09:19:19 6/30/99
                   FROM - jay
                   actually 180 steve just uses 4 inch mesh pots filled with hydrocorn..no organic medium at all...the top inch is a mixture
                   mostly of wormcastings,but steve makes a mixture much like vic's super soil mix and sells it(just bare organic
                   ingredients)you can either add it to a bale of pro mix or what ever..this is the same mix that he puts with the worm
                   castings...and his drip lines are 1/8inch...its unreal to see the system..the plants filter out and use the bad chems to
                   protect the fish(their shit or in better terms nitrites)so its kinda like 1 working for the other..real cool...


                   TOPIC - Question
                   DATE - 08:59:06 6/30/99
                   FROM - Billy Behe
                   When i want to order the seeds from your place do i just put on a piece of paper the code of what seeds i want and the
                   money in the card and then mail it or should i do something else to it?


                   TOPIC - pi, sucanat, blazer, pyroclay
                   DATE - 08:41:25 6/30/99
                   FROM - 180
                   sucanat is fine pi, in fact it's probably the best for your purposes. "cold-processed", lots of minerals, etc.

                   Blazzzz! have you ever seen a description of breeder steve's "sweetwater" system? i think he was trying to market it,
                   don't know. anyway, organic "deep-water" hydro, but with the plants rooted through an organic medium above the
                   water. the drip emitters were staked one-per-plant and he added dry nutes like pyroclay on top of the medium, under
                   the dripper, where it would be slowly dissolved. this under-the-emitter method is also recommended on the pyroclay3
                   pyroclay is more finely milled than most other trace nutrient supplements that i've seen (powder as opposed to
                   granular), so it would be better suited to this application. the granular forms really need to be mixed in the medium.



                   TOPIC - pot seed legality
                   DATE - 00:22:44 6/30/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   I think, technically, you can own seed so long as it's non-viable (won't sprout). However, there are a few retail outlets
                   where you can buy over the counter seed. The amsterdam cafe is the I'm aware of and it's in Vancouver.

                   I don't think it's a big issue to possess them here but it would be if you were caught smuggling them into, say, the usa.


                   TOPIC - thanks...
                   DATE - 22:35:43 6/29/99
                   FROM - irish
                   maybe it is time to go shopping...


                   TOPIC - sucanat
                   DATE - 18:15:53 6/29/99
                   FROM - pi
                   it is not a liquid but golden brown granules.
                   a product description can be found below. i got it at a health food store same as the citric acid power.



                   TOPIC - sucanat
                   DATE - 18:12:34 6/29/99
                   FROM - pi


                   TOPIC - "Wheres My Mojo"
                   DATE - 17:25:30 6/29/99
                   FROM - nl420
                   Pi and Irish.. Not sure about the shelf life.. Maybe Blaze can comment.. Warm water would help disovle it better I do
                   believe.. Yes that is 1 oz dry weight for the powder.. PI I do not know what that liquid is that you brought up.. I went to
                   local super market and they had RAW cane Sugar.. It is golden in color.. Irish Your mix for your GH nutes makes no
                   difference.. Just add 10ml of the citric/sugar mix to every 1 gal of GH mix you make.. If you mix up 5 gal at a time then
                   you would add 50ml, If you mix up 1 gal at a time then add 10 ml.. I change res every 10-12 days and the citric/sugar
                   mix lasts for that time period.. You are just adding it as an addition to your normal nute mix.. make sure you let sit for
                   24 hrs before adding to res.. It is alot easier to get the ph adjusted before hand.. I do not experience ph fluctuations
                   during that 10-12 days in the res.. Hope this helped..

                   Sorry about my "web math" rofl..



                   TOPIC - sorry nl
                   DATE - 12:25:59 6/29/99
                   FROM - pi
                   did not see your correction.

                   is it necessary to warm the water in order to get all the stuff disolved and in suspension?


                   TOPIC - nl420 and Blaze
                   DATE - 12:21:51 6/29/99
                   FROM - curious pi
                   nl>>> this question begs asking. how do you divide
                   1000ml= 1l by 100 gal and get 5 ml per gal??????? is math on the web different? i get 10ml per gallon. doh. )))

                   also what do you do with the concentrate? store it in the frig?

                   i am assuming we are talking measurement of the sugar/citric acid by weight ie 1 oz by weight of each

                   i have in my hot little hands pure citric acid and organic sucanat which is called granulated cane "juice". is this what i



                   TOPIC - lovely organic citric additives
                   DATE - 12:14:28 6/29/99
                   FROM - irish
                   just for clarification by the way:
                   so, if GH is used in the 1-2-3 style (2 always being the micro, 3 and one interchanging depending on the cycle)
                   you would add the citric mix below at the same ratio as micro (2 teaspoon/ 10 mL) always, until clearing?
                   and this is okay to leave in during a normal 10-14 day changing cycle for the reservoir?

                   also, mixing this additive up in the 1 oz/ 1 oz/ 1 L mix... would this have a fairly good shelf life?

                   my friend's res. is filtered and quite aerated. bacteria has not been a major concern. but a fermentation would be.

                   allantoin is also used as aloe vera for minor cuts and bruises, razor burn, skin irritation. but, "supernatural" is still hard
                   to find here.

                   and while i am at it can anyone tell me where i come up with these silly questions? irish.


                   TOPIC - What's the Law?
                   DATE - 12:12:46 6/29/99
                   FROM - BOB
                   Just curious what the law says about buying and possesing marijuana seed. The question I guess is...is it legal in


                   TOPIC - I stand corrected
                   DATE - 11:48:15 6/29/99
                   FROM - nl420
                   That would be 10 ml not 5 ml.. Dam I hate metric..


                   TOPIC - thanx
                   DATE - 11:14:20 6/29/99
                   FROM - herb lover
                   id just like to extend my thanx to t2, i a appreciate the help and id be happy to return the favor anyday, just email me.


                   TOPIC - bit off topic but concerns email
                   DATE - 11:07:49 6/29/99
                   FROM - cedartop
                   i get the andover net newletter every day and ran across this supposedly secure email software. thought i'd post the
                   link if anyone is interested.



                   TOPIC - Webby
                   DATE - 10:40:06 6/29/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   I'm a GH using hydro guy too and haven't had any problems You mentioned. If this does happen w/ the juice We
                   mentioned, You need much more aggitation/arriration in Your res. IMO. I get NO organic sludge or settling of anykind in
                   My res., but I also filter and circulate the shit out of My res. w/ pumps and airstones. You think it's fermentation or
                   maybe the res. is going anerobic on You?ie stinky bacteria opposed to aerobic which is beneficial. I've found adding o2
                   and circulation keeps My res. clear and clean as a whistle. I'm a drip fan too so filtering is a big must.
                   I hope I hit the Q for Ya..I bet I got a lil to elementary for You on the bacteria etc...just checking;)


                   TOPIC - Citric/Sugar
                   DATE - 05:54:34 6/29/99
                   FROM - nl420
                   Webfish - You dont use it during clearing.. Plain water is all that should be used to clear out the plant.. The mix should
                   be used during the Veg and Flowering Cycle only.. My experience with using it during clearing keeps some of the
                   chem taste lingering..

                   Curious G - 1oz each of the powder will treat 100 Gal. So whatever aount of water you use to mix the powder with, you
                   divide by 100 and you get your per gal measurement.. This confused the hell out of me too but is quite simple.. Blaze
                   takes 1 oz raw cane + 1 oz of citric acid + 1 Liter of water.. Mix it thouroughly... Now dive 100 by 1 liter and you get 5
                   ml.. So you would add 5 ml of the mix to every 1 gal of water used.. phew.. I can't comment on the soil/ph question but
                   the Citric/Sugar mix should just be added to your nute solution.. It has only moved my ph down about 2 then it goes
                   back up to where it was or very close within the hour.. I mix my nute solutions 24 hrs or more before I plan to add it to
                   my res.. This allows everything that is gonna settle or mess with me to adjust..



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 04:18:54 6/29/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Asking Q's like the difference between sat and indica here is not what this page is about read the book at this link then
                   come back and ask relevent Q's

                                                    Link: MJ growers handbook


                   TOPIC - Citric / Sugar Supplements
                   DATE - 20:06:17 6/28/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   A tip of the hat to Blaze and the folks who posted those articles by Dr. Thomas ( even though all the tech talk was hard
                   to read in small print ). Very interesting stuff.

                   I'd like to give it a shot on the tomatos & peppers out back. Since there are several variety's in multiple buckets, there
                   would be side-by-side controls.

                   I'm lousy at math, so will somebody tell me how the "2 oz. per 100 gal. of nutrient solution" recipe given in the article
                   compares with the "2 oz. per 1 liter of water diluted 5 ml. per gal." that Blaze posted?

                   It sounds like something to use as a supplement after the usual watering a few times a week. What PH changes
                   should we expect, if any, in the soil?

                   That article also mentioned using seaweed products. Since various liquid seaweed supplements are readily available,
                   what would you have to add to that stuff to get the acid portion of the treatment?

                   Thanks again for the tip.



                   TOPIC - citrus
                   DATE - 19:31:03 6/28/99
                   FROM - webfish
                   Blazer on the clearing subject I have tried citrus, but not powdered and raw sugar and it always ferments and stinks in
                   my tank using only GH will the powderd do this also??I have noticed a huge increase in flavor infact it also brought out
                   the fact that I was over feeding,I cut nutes in half growth is the same or better and flavor and smell are 2 to 3 X....


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 18:09:03 6/28/99
                   FROM - Mofo
                   I would just like to know what the differnece is between indica and sativa. Another question i have is if the climate in
                   Miami, Fl is suitable for growing marijuana and if its better to grow inside or outside. And if i were to start growing
                   would it be better to start off with seeds that i get or seeds from the internet.


                   TOPIC - pyrolite. pyro clay etc
                   DATE - 14:29:43 6/28/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   I've read about these products and have followed some greenhouse studies w/ this stuff. The products I've treid just
                   gunked up all kinds of shit sadly, I haven't found a keen hydro application yet. I'll dig up that article too, it has actual
                   pictures of different plant beds w/ different amounts of clay added and some w/ none. MAJOR differences when used
                   right IMO and thiers, I just haven't pinned down the "how to" part on the hydro end yet. I'll find it, it's also written By
                   Dr.Thomas or 1 of His chronies up there. I forget if it was in The Growing Edge or 21st. Century Gardening. Both are
                   EXCELLENT publications, always on the cutting edge of technology.


                   TOPIC - T2, NL,180 all..G GREEN
                   DATE - 14:22:06 6/28/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   T2 I wish I could of given You the slow cured stuff...Just like candy man;)I wished I had a kola of it then to show off, I'm
                   damn proud of this gal and what I've tweeked her into doing.
                   NL thankYou for posting that! I was dreading trying to Myself.
                   180 I know soil user's use it, but not sure how exactly. I'd say it's the same or damn similar.
                   ALL That "juice" can be made at home for a few bucks. Go to a brewery shop and buy citric acid in powder form, then
                   get some raw, unprocessed sugar from the grocery store. This sugar still contains mollasis etc.. I mix 1 dry oz. of each
                   powder together in 1 liter of warm h2o and mix well. Then w/ every res. change, I add 5ml's of the juice to My res per
                   gallon of nutrient .. It drops PH hard for a day, but quickly rebounds as citric is a week acid. USE THIS THE ENTIRE
                   PLANTS LIFE, not just flower. I promise You haven't tasted or smelled sweeter fruit in Your life bud wise. I've found that
                   I can pull a few buds w/o clearing anything and they still taste great, no chemmy taste at all. After a weeks flush w/
                   clearing solution or h2o...LOOK OUT BABY!
                   That's why Luther says it's the Flavor Factor, I'm going on 2 years of using it now w/ nothing but the best of results
                   IMO. Hell I have some pot that smells so fruity, poeple think I beat a skunk w/ a honeysuckle bush and the smoke
                   couldn't be any easier on the lungs. LOL It's nothing short of amazing and just simple plant chemistry.
                   G GREEN Thats a new 1 to Me, very ingenious of You to make that discovery IMO! I bet the tea part doesn't hurt
                   fertilizer wise either, very cool idea.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 13:45:35 6/28/99
                   FROM - t2
                   herb lover heres a link to an excellent grow guide,also check out the pages at www.weedbase.com and

                                                        Link: grow guide


                   TOPIC - GROWING MY OWN STUFF
                   DATE - 13:01:30 6/28/99
                   FROM - HERB LOVER


                   TOPIC - citric acid & sugar
                   DATE - 07:09:04 6/28/99
                   FROM - GGreen
                   As I've said before, instant iced tea mix. I use Lipton, but I'm sure any brand will do. Main ingredients: Sugar and Citric
                   Acid. It's good in soil too, that's my own personal observation as I've never done hydro. When I mix my high
                   drainage(lots of perlite) organic medium together I also add some brewers yeast, mollasses, humic and fulvic acids just
                   to get the microbes off to a good start. Of course, liquid seaweed is used from day 1 'til the last few days of flowering. I
                   hope that helps someone somewhere.


                   TOPIC - thank you NL420
                   DATE - 05:34:00 6/28/99
                   FROM - 180
                   thanks for the info!


                   TOPIC - flavorizing....
                   DATE - 22:55:32 6/27/99
                   FROM - irish
                   if i remember correctly, wasn't there a time limit on keeping that organic supplement in a hydro res?
                   could a person leave this biolife mix in a res for a two week cycle? (using daily and/or to clear) or should it be
                   supplemented with the daily diet always?

                   spit it out, irish.... i guess i am asking...supplement GH nutes like a "pure blend" product? and if you can, maybe a
                   little recipe/ratio (flower to bloom) please... thanks

                   always a greedy boy when it comes to knowledge.


                   TOPIC - "Dr. Luthor Thomas"
                   DATE - 15:52:10 6/27/99
                   FROM - nl420 8-)_~~
                   Hey 180 - Blaze is right with the sugar/citric trick.. His store bought product is called "Bio Juice Keto Plant Acid
                   Catalyst" I have been using it now for about a year.. 2 articles follow that I pulled from weedbase..


                   ----- Begin Articles -----

                   -- "The Flavor Factor" --

                   What constitutes a delicious tomato--acid, sugar, or a combination of both? Centaintly the type of tomato one choses
                   to grow will determine its specific taste; there are around 4,000 tomato hybrids available. But what is it that
                   unlocks the fruit's full flavor potential?

                   The biochemestry of plants can be separated into two groups known as primary and secondary metabolism. The
                   primary metabolic systems are carbohydrate, the citric acid cycle, amino acid, purine and pyrimidine. The secondary
                   system consists of two major sections, isoprenoids and acetogenins. Isoprenoids consist of steroids, carotenoids and
                   polyisoprenoids for the synthesis of vitamins A, D, E and K. Acetogenins are benzophenones, acetogenin alkaloids,
                   flavonoids, fatty acids, antibiotic macroides, etc., which are mainly responsible for the taste and smell of the fruit and

                   Tomato plants cultivated in hydroponic systems and sub-standard soil (with low organic content) often have secondary
                   metabolic systems which are at best marginal in performance. A deficient secondary metabolic system is indicated by
                   a lack of plant and fruit odor.

                   During low periods of photosynthesis, primary metabolic systems deter the production of plant acids, sugars and
                   amino acids essential for the maintaince of secondary metabolic processes. Under natural conditions in which the
                   tomato plant is growing in fertile soil, there exists a supplemental reserve of acids and sugars to maintain the energy
                   requirements of the plant. Tomato plants add to
                   this reserve by secreting citric acid from their roots into the soil.

                   Hydroponic plant roots are clean and white in appearance from constantly being washed by the flow of inorganic
                   nutrient solution. In the process, plant acids secreted by the roots have become diluted to such a level that a viable
                   factor in plant metabolism is lost. This practise restricts an important biological pathway influencing primary and
                   secondary metabolism. Thus, it's not difficult to understand why many hydroponic fruits lack an odor and taste.
                   Remove a
                   biological system, something has to suffer.

                   How does one manipulate a hydroponic system to correct a deficient secondary metabolic system in tomato
                   plants?..... Simply increase the plant acid and carbohydrate content of the plant to get the primary metabolic system
                   functioning properly.

                   In primary metabolism, the tricarboxylic acid cycle--also known as the kreb and citric acid cycle-- contains citric,
                   aconitic, isocitric, succinic, fumaric, malic and oxalacetic acids. Citric and malic acid are considered accumulator
                   acids in many plants. For example, citrate is a major constituent of oranges, lemons, strawberries and tomatoes, while
                   malic acid is strongly represented in apples, plums and cherries. The type and amount of acid varies according with the
                   phase of plant development and environmental conditions.

                   Only the plant kingdom is genetically capable of accumulating high concentrations of one or two acids within their
                   cells, but never to the extent of excluding the
                   minor acids, which are always present in catalytic quantities.

                   The minor acids, oxalacetate and a-ketoglutarate, do not accumulate to any great extent because they are rapidly
                   converted by transanimation into other metabolic compounds. A-ketoglutarate acid funtions in the assimilation of
                   inorganic ammonia nitrogen to produce a precuror amino acid. It also funtions in carbohydrate and lipid metabolism.

                   The other minor acids accumulate in some plants, sometimes so much so that they end up becoming a major
                   constituent of the plant. For example, Aconitic acid is the major acidic componant of sugar cane juice. In maize
                   seedlings, aconitic
                   acid is found in the older parts of the roots, and in the young shoots of wheat and rye it is the most plentiful acid.
                   Isocitric and malate acid comprise the bulk of acid in blackberry fruit. With such examples in mind, an understanding of
                   the plant acid biochemistry of different species is important for creating an appropriate feeding and physical

                   As mentioned, in nature supplemental acids and sugars are available in soil for assimilation by plants. These plant
                   acids and alcohol sugars represent a source of vital energy in the synthesis of protiens, lipids, etc. Sucrose, the
                   principal sugar of higher plants such as tomatoes, is none other than common table sugar. Research has
                   demonstrated the ability of plants to assimilate sucrose. The tomato plant, when fed small amounts of sucrose in a
                   hydroponic environment, displays increased turgor, vigorous growth and darkening of the leaves. Many hydroponic
                   nutrient solutions lack this important sourse of metabolic energy and there is no reason why they should be.

                   Soluble seaweed is an excellent source of sugars and B vitamins, but short on plant acids. Commercial products that
                   contain plant extracts are another source of plant acids and sugars, but they can be costly. My favorite formula is very
                   simple, very inexpensive and proven through use to be very effective. It is a mixture of 50 percent citric acid and 50
                   percent raw sugar cane. In Austrailia this formula can be purchased as Bio-Earth Sea Acids, marketed by Waterworks
                   Horticultural of Melbourne. (Pure Food Hydroponics....in USA now market all of Dr. Thomas's BIOPONIC products)

                   For those of you who do not dwell Down Under, raw sugarcane is a plant extract containing sucrose, alcohol sugars
                   and plant acids. Acid percentages are as follows: citric, 0.21; malic, 0.22; aconitic, 1.45; succinic, 0.05; glycolic, 0.04;
                   mesaconic, 0.05 and a trace of fumaric acid. The recommended usage is at the rate of two ounces per one hunded
                   gallons of nutrient solution. For the hobbyist, citric acid and raw sugarcane can be found in most supermarkets, health
                   stores or bakery supply outlets.

                   Dr. Luthor Thomas holds his Ph.D in plant biochemistry. He is recently retired and has settled in Utah.

                   Above article taken from The Growing Edge ...... volume 7, number 2


                   -- BIO Line --

                   The Bio line of organic supplements include Bio Juice (NPK 1.5-1.5-1.5), Bio Bloom (NPK 5-8-5), Bio Juice Keto Plant
                   Acid Catalyst, and Pyro-Lite silicon clay (NPK

                   Bio Juice and Bio Bloom, formulated by Dr. Luther Thomas, are described as 'hydrolysed mixtures of organic ion
                   precursors, which are utilized by the plant's biosythesis metabolic pathways' to enhance taste, smell and plant genetic
                   potential. Formulated to meet the requirements of a bioponic system in conventional hydroponics, the Bio line
                   duplicates the biogeochemical activity that occurs naturally in organic, fertile soil. According to the manufacturer, Bio
                   Bloom also promotes dense flowering far better than guano.

                   Bio Juice Keto Plant Acid Catalyst has been formulated to increase the tricarboxylic acid levels within the plant,
                   promoting growth and greater yields - the catalyst is designed to compliment inorganic nutrient solutions and enhance
                   normal plant processes.

                   Pyro-Llite is an aluminosilicate zeolite clay that has a high cation exchange capacity. When exposed to water
                   solutions having a weak acid, the clay releases
                   monosilicic acid, a systemic repellent of microbial pathogens and some insects. Pyro-Llite clay also supplements
                   trace elements, reduces wilting, and stregthens plant tissue.

                   Above taken from the NEWS & PRODUCTS section of Practical Hydroponics & Greenhouses issue 34)

                   ----- End Articles ----

                   Hope this helps some.. Happy growin..


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 14:15:49 6/27/99
                   FROM - t2
                   blazer i agree with you if your talking about the taste but hydro bud still looks like hydro bud haha.tha sample i tried
                   was very nice indeed,tasted sweet and very easy on the lungs


                   TOPIC - greets blazz, greenbear, Mofo, noobee
                   DATE - 13:29:08 6/27/99
                   FROM - 180
                   hello greenbear, sorry i haven't emailed! good to hear the genius is hanging in there. my best to u-no-hoo! :-)

                   blazz, i wonder what that citric acid does in the res??? it might be reacting with some of the nutes (chelating to form
                   citrates)...hmmm. does dr. luther use this solution in soil or hydro? it might be inappropriate for soil use in certain
                   conditions, i dunno.
                   if you have all that dr. luther stuff on your hard drive, do you think you could send it to me via email? i would be most
                   appreciative :-)

                   Mofo: in miami if you had the safe outdoor location you could grow any type of weed you want, florida has a long
                   growing season. but you would have to water it alot, since it gets so hot there. indoors, you would need some
                   SERIOUS air conditioning to control the summer heat. if you could, it would be good to grow outdoors during the hot
                   months, indoors during the winter. we should all be so lucky!

                   there's plenty of good weed available commercially in florida, but you may not get seeds in the best weed, and the best
                   weed is what you want to grow, so you might get tired of looking for seeds in bags and order them instead. ordering
                   has its risks but if you ask around and read what others have to say, you can make an "informed decision". after that
                   you just hope for the best :-)

                   you will find the "seed and breed" info on other discussion boards though; generally don't discuss seed sellers here.
                   look at www.cannabinoid.com or www.weedbase.com for info about where to buy seeds.

                   noobee, growing from seed every time is hard, so you want to keep your best plant and clone it if possible. it's not hard
                   to learn to clone, and "obtaining" good clones is alot harder unless you know someone who has them for sale (this is
                   not the case for most newbie growers). you DON'T want to get clones from someone you don't know and trust,
                   because it is risky as hell and could be a bust, not to mention a rip-off. do you think just any grower would sell you a
                   clone of her best plant? think about it!

                   peace (freedom from harassment)


                   TOPIC - Vic, Hydro weed taste
                   DATE - 11:50:09 6/27/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   Vic I couldn't agree more w/ the below post;)
                   Hydro wise, I have been using a simple solution of raw sugar and citric acid mixed up in My res. w/ all other nutes. I'll
                   bet My last $ You cannot tell if it's hydro or organic! I have also noticed w/ this same solution, clearing isn't nearly as
                   difficult or even needed. It was developed By Dr. Luther Thomas(famous from the mag. Growing Edge) in an article
                   called "the flavor factor". This lil concoction caters to the plants kreb cycle all thru all growth stages. It makes all fruits
                   and veggies so much prettier, tastier and smooth as all get out! It's too simple and very proven/well kept secret IMO.
                   Very similar if not identicle to Biojuice or the like. I'll find the info for Ya's if You like.
                   I've been away so if I missed any Q's directed at Me..sorry, ask again please. Chatty bastages We are;)


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 08:34:02 6/27/99
                   FROM - Mofo
                   I would just like to know what the
                   differnece is between indica and sativa.
                   Another question i have is if the climate
                   in Miami, Fl is suitable for growing
                   marijuana and if its better to grow inside
                   or outside.
                   And if i were to start growing would it be
                   better to start off with seeds that i get or
                   seeds from the internet.


                   TOPIC - trelaway
                   DATE - 00:37:09 6/27/99
                   FROM - Old Bud
                   Could'nt agree with you more. The real quality weed is kept for special clients or for their own use. Thats why I grow
                   my own, but dont get wrong I think organic tastes better than hydro. I only use hydro to keep myself amused, I like
                   playing with all the pumps and pipes etc. Only wish I had more room haha



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 00:32:31 6/27/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   greenbear Haha sent it weeks ago thought you hadn't had time to contact me nice to know it finally arrived. I hope our
                   friend is doing ok.



                   TOPIC - How to get clones?
                   DATE - 16:49:49 6/26/99
                   FROM - Noobee
                   I've been nurturing seedlings for the past 3 weeks now.. am starting to realize how much better clones will be.

                   How available, safe or both are clones?


                   TOPIC - OT!
                   DATE - 14:36:44 6/26/99
                   FROM - greenbear
                   Hey OT the birthday card came four daysago Thankyou!(It made at least TWO Atlantic
                   crossings! but it made it!


                   TOPIC - still kickin' n' screaming
                   DATE - 14:32:16 6/26/99
                   FROM - greenbear
                   High all, it's been REAL exciting the last few weeks! Vic your .75 Romulan is doing well,along
                   with the Genius.I'll see that they get to where they need to go.
                   la.bud- they did there thing-lots of VERY interesting crosses


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 14:16:17 6/26/99
                   FROM - 0ldtimer1
                   Budm you have mail reply to my other account! Ot1


                   TOPIC - Old Bud
                   DATE - 10:40:47 6/26/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   Hey man,

                   Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against hydro pot, so long as it's cleared. I've been living on southern Vancouver
                   Island for a decade and while I agree there is decent weed around--commercial quality, in B.C., is in decline.



                   TOPIC - schwag exports
                   DATE - 09:53:13 6/26/99
                   FROM - zip
                   Why offer them gold when they line up to buy silver?
                   heh heh heh


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 09:03:25 6/26/99
                   FROM - Mofo
                   I would just like to know what the differnece is between indica and sativa. Another question i have is if the climate in
                   Miami, Fl is suitable for growing marijuana and if its better to grow inside or outside.
                   And if i were to start growing would it be better to start off with seeds that i get or seeds from the internet.


                   TOPIC - Trelaway
                   DATE - 03:01:24 6/26/99
                   FROM - Old Bud
                   Theres lots of GREAT BUD here in BC, The only problem is there is too much good bud here in BC. I got the
                   smooooooothest around (imho) and its not organic!!! Whaaaa!
                   Treated several friends behind the the bar (20+ year smokers) tonite the best I had. Said it was the best they had (too
                   bad I had to tell it was from down south). Been to adam, sort of the "macdonalds" of Weed. BC rocks, while the others
                   read poetry!!!!!!
                   62 years old, still rockin!!!!!
                   OLD BUD
                   Party on BOB Seagar!!!!!!!
                   Sorry VIC I'm kinda fucked up, OB.


                   TOPIC - BC Weed
                   DATE - 00:46:37 6/26/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   Chronic Man--B.C. doesn't grow better weed, just more of it. Ya gotta remember that killer weed is not what
                   commercial growers are growing. They grow for volume with short flower cycles.

                   Don't be fooled, people here are not representative of yer typical BC cash cropper. Much of the commercial BC pot is
                   uncleared hydro stuff cut down every forty-five days by people simply in it for the $$$$$.

                   The avenue to decent weed is to know a grower or be one.


                   TOPIC - hey vic... ? about sweet tooth.
                   DATE - 22:27:09 6/25/99
                   FROM - anon
                   do the sweet tooth you have show the same slow veg. growth rate as grapefruit?? got some sweeties at 30 days...
                   they're very healthy, but they seem to veg slower than past efforts. just curious if this is a trait... thanks vic!!


                   TOPIC - Romberry report.
                   DATE - 21:31:17 6/25/99
                   FROM - High Dog
                   Romberry seeds were purchased from Heavens Stairway in March. Got 57 seedlings out of 60 seeds. After 8 days of
                   12/12, have found at least 7 that are growing both male and female flowers. Whats up with that?


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 07:30:13 6/25/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Chronic man - from what I've seen, ww and the original pure romulan are nothing alike. Alot of the confusion comes
                   from many growers growing a romulan/ww hybrid and this being their first experience with romulan, they call it that. I've
                   noticed that many call seeds they get from me as romulan when they are all hybrids as well. It gives many false
                   impressions as to what romulan really is. Yes it can get stinky - so take precautions.

                   As for the schwag that is exported to the US, you guys are just going to have to teach your dealers what quality bud it.
                   Seriously! Afoaf showed some romulan and romberry to an exporter. They laughed and said "not a chance! Look at all
                   the brown hairs!" they turned down very high end product in favour of a boring cabbage like NL type purely on the fact
                   that it's pistals were less noticeable. Your importers are outdated and still thinking of the old red hairs of yesteryear. I
                   hope my american neighbours aren't offended by my comments, just passing along what I've heard.

                   Danbo - good to hear. Hope she holds her own this fall :) Say did you get the real romberry? Can't remeber what all you
                   were sent. They would be what they were labelled though. I wish I had the resources to be playing with your beans, but
                   unfortunately they are sitting in a friends fridge. Really curious about your and A1's holyweed.


                   TOPIC - Chronic Man
                   DATE - 06:33:29 6/25/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All,
                   CMan- Afoaf has grow both WW and Rom, and IMO, they are toatally diffrent, the one respect that they are alike is
                   that they are both HQ smoke, now this is comparing "Ingmars" WWidow crosses, perhaps folks see Rom being like
                   the "standard" WW strain.

                   Those of you that have read my dis-satisafaction with HGF's "SuperCrystal" need to read this. Yesterday af cut down a
                   small branch of a SC clone at about 40 days of 12/12, this
                   clone unlike the mother had a great spicy Mango bouquet, and under a 30x magnifiyer was full of tricomes(probably to
                   the naked eye as well, but I have bad vision), although not smoked yet, the apperance and smell are way better then
                   the mom, and by the looks of things ILL bet the smoke will be much better. A big lesson was learned about maturing
                   clones can in some cases, far out do inmature moms, even though after checking some notes, its clear to see the
                   original mom was put into flower after alternating phylotaxy(7 weeks). Gotta give those clones a chance. Im not
                   retracting my comments about Super Crystal being variable, becuse it is, but next week I think Ill be retaracting my
                   comments about potency. Live and Learn... Yall have a great weekend;-)



                   TOPIC - Romberry
                   DATE - 04:59:41 6/25/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   Vic, That Romberry is starting to impress me. It's out
                   growing with the "Big Girls" and holding her own nicely
                   at 4 feet.

                   Cronic,I talked with the distributor at Rainbow Farms, a worm poop dealer. He said you can use 100% castings without
                   any worry of fert burns. There is however a % where you won't achieve any better results. He suggests 10 to 25%
                   mixture and uses red rock instead of perlite. I would add 10% silicate sand to reduce surface tension and help with
                   mold and mildew prevention. D



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 02:02:13 6/25/99
                   FROM - t2
                   you can buy a #5 at most any hardware or wal/k-mart. thats probably not a bad idea but i would test the box out with
                   some junk mail first to see if they'd deliver to it. once they're delivering and used to the idea it should be no problem.if
                   your fake id is good enuff to fool em up front i think your in the clear for an anonymous po box


                   TOPIC - safe po box and letterbox
                   DATE - 23:45:40 6/24/99
                   FROM - spud
                   Howdy. Say if a FOAF wanted to get some seeds but didn't want to get them sent to his address. Anyway, if you go to
                   a post office with fake id, do those nosey postal workers have like some sort of database of citizens where they can
                   look up the ID code number of your ID (say a drivers licence) to confirm that that particular ID is legit? I mean, down
                   here in AUstralia you have to fill in a PO box application from that specifically asks for the ID number. I'd hate to think
                   that once you have your box, they wait for you to leave then check all the details on the filled out form, and if that ID
                   number didn't match the one on the database, they deam it a fake ID and thoroughly scan every item of mail that gets
                   sent to that PO box.

                   On other possibilities for an address, I came across a unit (what we call small houses) complex around the corner,
                   which contains 4 units. Out the front, as always, there is a block of mailboxes. But in this place, they accidentally built
                   a 5th mailbox alongside the other 4. But it isn't numbered. I was thinking of somehow matching the number style and
                   getting a number 5, sticking it on with superglue, and then simply getting seeds sent there. What do you reckon?
                   Where would I start looking for letter box numbers (metal ones in stylish writing)? And do you think the other residents
                   will notice, or even care? DO you think maybe if I get them sent to unit 5, but I don't put a number 5 on the unused
                   letterbox, that the postie will just figure that unit 5 letterbox is just the last one next to 4 even though it lacks a
                   number? Is it worth chasing up a number to stick on?
                   Sorry for the long post.


                   TOPIC - A few general questions...
                   DATE - 21:30:33 6/24/99
                   FROM - chronic man
                   Well I did a little gazing at a few of the archives here, didn't notice them before, maybe they were just added. Anyways,
                   one thing I have noticed, most of you are soil growers. (Organic mainly so it seems). Thats cool, I haven't really delved
                   into that yet, am sticking with what works for me. I use Sunshine #4, general hydro nutes, and
                   have been adding more and more perlite and worm castings every time. hehe Is it possible to overdose em with the
                   castings?? I have been thinking about going with a hydro system, but I've had such great results with soil, I'm kinda
                   hesitant. I keep hearing about all the great yields/
                   quick growing with hydro, so I've kinda decided to try one
                   of the "do it yourself" aquafarms, just to see what all the fuss is about. Not trying to start a soil/hydro controversy,
                   just can't help but wonder.
                   Vic, I don't know if your tired of my Romberry questions,
                   but I do have a few more. First of all, is the Romulan similar to a White Widow??? Maybe you haven't seen White
                   Widow, I've heard from others that it is similar. Maybe others have some input on this one?? Also I may have asked
                   you this before, but I think you may not have answered it.
                   I've heard that the Romberry is stinky. Is it unbearable,
                   I mean I've grown stuff that was a security risk before, so
                   I need to know if I should take precautions.
                   Also, are alot of you here from B.C?? I get that feeling by reading some of the earlier posts. I've seen and heard
                   things about B.C. pot down here in Washington. I've seen
                   stuff that is like fools gold. It looks great but doesn't do much. I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just trying to figure this
                   out. Have any of you seen any of this stuff up there?? It is a lot cheaper, and for good reason. I just don't get it. Why
                   would anyone grow that crap?? Maybe some of you up there know something about this, maybe not. It just seems to
                   keep popping up in conversations, and I've been wondering. Again I'm not trying to start shit.....

                   P.S. Sorry about the long post...

                   cHrOnIc man


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 20:05:44 6/24/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Hey chronic man - I just had my blinders on, haha and just assumed that shishkaberry was from SOL. It will be
                   interesting to hear how they turn out. Cash Crop Ken is a new source isn't it? Haven't heard too much about that
                   breeder yet. Hope he does as well as Federation seems to be doing. Well best of luck on both.


                   TOPIC - puna butter
                   DATE - 18:36:57 6/24/99
                   FROM - pi
                   have puna butter in veg now

                   used sensasoak and only got 4 to germinate but i am sure i have one fem already

                   have more that i am gonna germ but no more room at present.

                   will keep ya'll posted


                   TOPIC - Original Hawaiian
                   DATE - 17:21:50 6/24/99
                   FROM - Mr. Greengenes
                   Eric >>>> I too am interested in horsetrading. Your description of the original Hawaiian brought back some fond
                   memories from the '70s. Those were the days of AWESOME sativas....Puna Butter, Maui Wowee, Kauai Electric,
                   Molokai Madness, Waimea Wipeout, Maui Mango Hash, etc. I'm drooling just thinking about it. I would love to trade
                   some beans. Email me at above addy.


                   TOPIC - Shishkaberry
                   DATE - 16:57:21 6/24/99
                   FROM - chronic man
                   I'm not sure what the deal was with Marc, but I got the seeds. I think he has two different sources. I got mine from
                   Cash Crops Sens seeds. I think the Vancouver Island Seed company also carries the Shisk, but it's called Blueberry x
                   Afghani there. Which is actually what the strain is. Have you checked out Marc's website lately?? If not I'm sure you'll
                   find it there.
                   I'm very interested to see how the Romberry and the Shiskaberry turn out. I've been really happy with the White Widow
                   from Dutch Passion, but like I said earlier, the Blueberry from them looks like a small yielder. I'm wondering if I have the
                   real Blueberry. I saw a picture
                   over at Cannabis.com of a BB plant and it looks completely different than mine. Check it out over there, it's in the
                   binary section. Tell me if you think it looks like the BB
                   that youve had. I guess it looks kinda similar, just not
                   exactly the same. The leaves look really wide, kind of like an Afghani looks. Maybe I'm wrong. It'll be the very first
                   cHrOnIc man


                   TOPIC - just wandering
                   DATE - 16:39:17 6/24/99
                   FROM - ShareCropper

                   This was a question I posed that was never answered, whether Bone Meal has a quick enough compost time to be of
                   much benefit in the average veg/flower cycle. Most of the literature I have read states that Bone mealís availability is
                   MODERATE. Meaning that it takes longer to compost to a form where it can be assimilated by the plant. Exactly how
                   long is MODERATE! This is fine if you plan on reusing your soil for another and another and so on crop. Guanoís are
                   RAPID. Therefore it nutrients can be used by the plant almost immediately. Oldtimer1 alluded to this and even
                   suggested the use of Bone Flour which is a very fine, and therefore perhaps has a more rapid compost time. I looked
                   for Bone flour only to get a lot of blank stares and perhaps even tipped off the clerk as to what I was up to. I would stick
                   with Guanoís. Seems to raise fewer eyebrows. Also, check out WEEDBASE and search for a post by Elvis A. Presley,
                   itís a soil mix that uses both the Bone and Guano.


                   Back in í76 my brother was stationed in Hawaii and on one of his trips back home brought some ìMAUI WOWIEî. I
                   was still in HS at the time and $10 five finger bags of Michoacan and Oaxacan, were the main stay. He gave me like 5
                   grams for I think it was a Boston concert and man, made my ears RING, not the concert, the Hawaiian. One of the
                   best highs. That was a lot of years ago but it DEFINATLY left an impression.

                   Chronic man

                   Remember Operation Green Sweep. Take a TAXI or BUS folks. Itís still not legal!




                   TOPIC - Does anybody remember if "Northwest Lighting"
                   DATE - 15:29:09 6/24/99
                   FROM - is a BUST"????????
                   Their in Minnesota,


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 11:48:57 6/24/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Mofo - take it to cannabis.com, this isn't a suitable place to asking about seedbanks.

                   KQ & BD - please get in touch at bcga@mailcity.com


                   TOPIC - New Grower
                   DATE - 10:01:54 6/24/99
                   FROM - Mofo
                   I would like to know if buying seeds from the internet is worth it. If, so then what are good prices for these seeds and
                   any possible good sites for this. I found a reall y good one but donw really know if its safe. The name is Hempseed
                   cybershop. just reply


                   TOPIC - shiskbaberry
                   DATE - 18:37:02 6/23/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Hey Chronic man? I thought I remember reading from Emery that he no longer carried SOL strains and also that
                   Shiskaberry was no longer available? What's your secret? Got a couple of friends interested in getting their hands on
                   some of those seeds.


                   TOPIC - Green gardens..
                   DATE - 17:06:00 6/23/99
                   FROM - chronic man
                   The grow shop in Bellevue, near Seattle, has been writing down license plate numbers. A friend of mine got busted
                   about 6 months ago... he found out thats how it happened.
                   So don't even go there. I went there a few times with someone elses car, (thank god), but I know I'll NEVER be back.
                   I did get some seeds from Marc Emery last week, Shiskaberry,
                   and they got here in 10 days. Pretty quick. Also I got some Romberry from Heavens Stairway, and they got here in 11
                   days. So far the Shiskaberry seeds have sprouted after using the paper towel method to germitate them. And it's only
                   been 24 hours!! Pretty amazing...never had any seeds sprout that quick...from what I've read over at Weedbase and
                   other sites, the Shisk is a pretty hardy plant, but is prone to go
                   hermie. I hope not..Anyone have any experience with the Shisk??
                   Also I've been trying to put together one of those
                   "aqua farms", made by General Hydro. Someone gave me the
                   link to a website that shows how to make one yourself.
                   (http://www.ns.net/~bennu/farmplan.html). Aquafarm Ill try to link it...Looks cool so far,Anyone have any info or
                   experiences with these??
                   cHrOnIc man

                                                         Link: Aquafarm


                   TOPIC - newbie
                   DATE - 14:49:57 6/23/99
                   FROM - pi
                   this is not the place to ask newbie questions but here are 3 links that will get to going. read and lurk read and lurk.


                   btw, do not waste your money on a phototron. go to these 2 sites and you will get better advice on equipment to suite
                   your needs.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 14:34:07 6/23/99
                   FROM - Newbie grower
                   I am a new grower and was thinking about investing in something called the Phototron or one of those machines that
                   grows pot. If anyone can help me just reply. Thnx



                   TOPIC - indicaa
                   DATE - 10:40:08 6/23/99
                   FROM - pi
                   alternating leaves indicate maturity

                   preflowers if differentiated will help you determine sex


                   TOPIC - thanks old timer
                   DATE - 09:20:05 6/23/99
                   FROM - terrytune
                   it worked i cut new clones off my budding plants and they are all doing fine already about 14 inches not to bad i think
                   for the weather weve had also the budding plants are just coming back into veg double bonus point thank you very
                   much for your advice on my problem it seems to be working perfectly to vic high i also took your advice and signed up
                   for english 12 this fall still hoping for sun regards terrytune


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 00:55:40 6/23/99
                   FROM - Ashley Hayes
                   By the way my email is ashleyhayes69@hotmail.com





                   TOPIC - Let's smoke out!
                   DATE - 00:54:13 6/23/99
                   FROM - Ashley Hayes
                   Hey! I just found out about this cool website tonight! It's so cool! I LOVE to smoke the herb! I do at least once day! I
                   live in a little town called Winfield in Alabama! Most everyone who lives here smokes! I would love to chat with some of
                   you!! Anybody who would like to...then just email me sometime soon!!!




                   TOPIC - Pre-flower question
                   DATE - 23:47:16 6/22/99
                   FROM - indicaa
                   Do pre-flowers indicate a plants sexual maturity?

                   I have 4 AK-47 seedling which are 6 weeks old and two of them are showing their sex already, the other two are also
                   starting to show signs as well. Would it be ok to start flowering them, or should I wait until they show signs of alternate



                   TOPIC - Hawaii
                   DATE - 17:08:41 6/22/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   Eric, Are you in the states or Canada. Please me,
                   don't tease me. Wanna do some horsetrading? My email
                   is above. I have a friend in Hawaii that would
                   probably want to inject it back into the Kona Gold
                   of yesteryear.


                   TOPIC - little black bugs
                   DATE - 14:51:15 6/22/99
                   FROM - eddie
                   does anyone know what those little black bugs that are on your plants because there killing my sprouts what insect
                   repel do i use


                   TOPIC - ORIGINAL HAWIIAN
                   DATE - 14:25:39 6/22/99
                   FROM - Eric
                   hey folks...
                   just wanted to say hi and to tell you guys that remember me talking about the original hawiian i got from a breeder from
                   there is the absolute BEST smelling pot i have ever in my life been around..it is absolutly wonderful..I have c99 going
                   right now and it has nothing in the aroma area even close to this hawiian (not a flame just a comparison as i know that
                   lots of you guys are growing c99 now)

                   It is a lemony smell that is just freakin wonderful to smell..VERY VERY fruity..very strong comp[ared to c99, niagra,
                   huron, super skunk, flo or any of the "no name" brands i have...it is so much more fragrant than the norm. it is all fruity
                   with NO undertone.

                   potentcy samples of this strain were VERY GOOD there were only three smaples taken from three seperate smokers
                   and this is the results.

                   My sample was one toke from a hand made one hitter sample pipe made from blood stone (pipe made by Touches
                   Earth the native american medicine man that i got the seeds from (he got them from a grower from hawiia)

                   I took one toke and KNEW I had taken a hit. about 3 minutes later it kicked in...it was a nice very visual high..no
                   paranoia..the high was NOT a body..but a head high...I couldnt keep my eyes focused or my thoughts..i say a happy
                   high. Very nice, I can only wait for the crop to come off this fall.

                   Touches Earth..says that it is everything he remebers hawiian to be and is impressed with it.

                   Josh..had been drinking a bit (we were around a camp fire drinkin beer and shootin the breeze when i got the
                   samples(which by the way were imature buds) josh took one hit and threw up..HAHAHA..no shit.....tha boy tossed his

                   these buds were imature...taken off the branch and put on top of a light bulb until dry enough to smoke. This crop was
                   strictly a seed crop as now me have SEVERAL SEVERAL hundred of the pure and of crossses with the other hawiian
                   that is defintly a LONGER flowerer.

                   this is good stuff..see ya folks.


                   TOPIC - Quantum ponics
                   DATE - 13:23:13 6/22/99
                   FROM - søren
                   High there
                   is there any one (try the Quantum Ponics)


                   TOPIC - Older Strains
                   DATE - 07:38:00 6/22/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   pi: Nobody that I'm aware of ever bothered to save any Columbian seeds. They just took too long to develop in a
                   Northern climate. Besides, after the first flush of "goodie", succeeding harvests of Columbian got worse and worse.
                   There was plenty of "mersh", and tons of useless seeds in every single bale.

                   Before the advent of Indica, Mexican seed was the only game in town, and even then it was a crap shoot. Remember,
                   almost all of the growing prior to the mid-70's was of seeded herb. The Sensi / Hawiian thing hadn't happened yet, and
                   big, long, thick, bushy, seeded, tops were what was grown both for personal stash and as a cash crop.

                   When the first skunky indica's arrived, they were similar, if not identical, to Afgani #1. About 3 ft. tall at maturity with a
                   woody stem and one main cola. The seeds were huge, about 5X the size of a sativa, with a prounounced ridge and a
                   very long germination time.

                   It's been said that Columbian seeds grown in Mexico for commercial export have diluted many of the traditional regional
                   Mexican strains. There is no doubt when viewing random samples of bagweed that Indica strains have been brought to
                   Mexico as well. That prounounced Indica ridge on the seeds is a dead giveaway.

                   Most of the older seed stocks that have been saved and carried forward from that time are hybrids of Afgani Indica and
                   Mexican. Some are nifty, many are not. Due to the problems inherent in outdoor growing, the "breeding" back then was
                   haphazard at best, and most of the saved seeds that people have tucked away are really "suprise" bags. There's no
                   telling how they will grow.

                   The seedlings can be dark & vigorous, with wide Indica leaves, and still mature into sparkling tops with no punch at all.
                   Had some recently, grown from old, saved, seeds, that was worse than schwag. Looked fine, smelled fine, but nearly
                   zip in the buzz department. Maybe some ditch-weed pollen was responsible, or maybe it's just a natural variation.
                   Either way, it might not be worth it to re-invent the wheel using these old strains unless you have a lot of time and
                   patience, ( or can find some where the hybrid traits have been stabilized ).


                   TOPIC - nada, whitey cassell's, robert
                   DATE - 06:38:26 6/22/99
                   FROM - 180
                   nada, yep, late flowers. i think sodium lighting encourages this a bit (anecdotal evidence).
                   i like to keep flowering males around vegging clones, to pollinate the pre-flowers on the clones. that way you get a
                   small number of mature seeds in easy-to-find single pre-flowers along the stems, rather than seeds in the (sinse) buds,
                   perhaps hidden inside...

                   hey pi, don't they have "rat burgers" (aka "sliders") all over the midwest? maaaaaan, talk about a weird place to visit
                   while stoned (bright white-and-stainless-steel all around inducing claustrophobia, weird folks inducing paranoia,

                   robert, go back and explore the www.hempqc.com (heaven's stairway) website. the "seeds" link should have the info
                   you need.



                   TOPIC - 180
                   DATE - 21:29:20 6/21/99
                   FROM - nada
                   The seeds didnt look mature, there were few and on a smaller lower bud, seemed localized since only one bud had
                   any seed. Strain is fair and not keeping her anyway, but Ill make sure to keep the few I find when I find em..




                   TOPIC - buying
                   DATE - 20:34:51 6/21/99
                   FROM - robert
                   how many seeds do you recieve per order? Do you have clones?


                   TOPIC - super soil mix?
                   DATE - 19:22:16 6/21/99
                   FROM - wacky1
                   Greetings,A friend has some plants in 5gal pots with vic's super soil mix,The plants are almost 1 week into the
                   flowering cycle are very healthly and show no signs of any nutrient deficiencys.In vic's soil mix it mentions a bat gauno
                   top dressing a week into the flowering cycle.My question is since this complete soil mix provides enough nutrients get
                   the plants through the flowering cycle...Would the addition of the high phosphorus guano during flowering be just a
                   waste of money.


                   TOPIC - piss test
                   DATE - 17:55:02 6/21/99
                   FROM - guy
                   This is the best site I have found on the subject, by far!

                   If you have to do stress over smoking this helps.

                   If you smoke every day the only way to expect to pass a piss test is to carry clean urine with you whenever a test is




                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 17:25:37 6/21/99
                   FROM - H.C.
                   The jack herrer is really a fine marijuana plant.
                   A little difficult to grow; but worth it.


                   TOPIC - super soil mix?
                   DATE - 17:04:34 6/21/99
                   FROM - wacky1
                   Greetings,a friend has some plants in 5 gal pots with vic,s super soil mix and have been flowering almost a week.The
                   plants look very healthly and show no nutrient deficiencys.I noticed that it mentioned bat gauno for a top dressing a
                   week into flowering.Would this be a waste of time since all the nutrients the plant can use are provided already in
                   mix?Has anyone added this during flowering and was there any noticeable difference.


                   TOPIC - piss test
                   DATE - 17:00:56 6/21/99
                   FROM - guy
                   The main thing is dilution.

                   Go to the store and buy some B complex vitamins. if it is timed release, chew it up. this colors the urine so it doesn't
                   look like water.
                   eat one or two about 1 hour before the test.

                   Get up early tommorrow. Drink coffee, soda, cranberry juice, etc.

                   If you know about what time you will take it tommorrow then drink a half to full gallon within about 1 to 2 hours before
                   the test.

                   When you are giving the sample let the first part of the stream go in the toilet. Give them their 60ml and a little more.
                   Then let the rest go in the toilet.

                   the surest way is to carry a clean sample in your crotch area if possible.

                   Hope it helps
                   It has worked for me TWICE with no notice.




                   TOPIC - Vic
                   DATE - 16:52:34 6/21/99
                   FROM - sb
                   I noticed on your that you guys have willy jack's
                   JH x Williams wonder. Have you grown this one?
                   I grew these seeds in a mix(accident) and believe I have this strain as a mom now...I really dig it!
                   Frostiest plant I've ever grown and kinda taste like juicy fruit to me...I'm just curious
                   Also what feedback if any have you had on the chemo x ? ?
                   I was just digging thru the toolbox and found these forgotten gems (Ihope)


                   TOPIC - cg / light rail
                   DATE - 16:35:37 6/21/99
                   FROM - pi
                   Gorgeous George>>> being old and cranky your not Gorgeous George the rassler in cognito are you??? good to see
                   you do not take yourself toooooo seriously and you have a sense of humor. we are laughing WITH YOU not at you.
                   heh. must be from near buckeyland to mention White Castle.

                   so what kind of strains you got? you can tell us that can't you? have connections to any of the old strains of the 60's
                   and 70's???? some columbian hash bud would taste mighty good right now.

                   light rail>>> had an idea re light rail on how to make it both rotate and move linearly .... maybe. have never seen one in
                   person but i would think adding a rack and a pinion gear with shaft to the rail would allow for getting both motions. just
                   a thought?????


                   TOPIC - george
                   DATE - 16:12:25 6/21/99
                   FROM - 180
                   hey george, that was an excellent post. i also have trouble reining myself in at times. i don't think you need to lurk,
                   unless you choose to. you obviously have useful things to contribute, and as vic says, "FEED ME SEYMOUR".

                   KQ you have email.

                   nada, on the subject of "late herms" and the few seeds: although there seems to be a universal hatred and fear of
                   hermaphrodite plants among growers, the fact is that almost ANY strain will throw a few male flowers occasionally. not
                   alot, just a few, more on some strains than others. skunk#1 is an example: many male flowers may show, even mixed
                   in with the females in buds. they may or may not be viable. you may or may not get seeds.
                   you can learn alot from the seeds themselves: were they immature or fully developed? where in the bud did you find
                   them? did you find any male flowers on the plant?
                   if the seeds were at the base of the buds, inside, and fully matured, then they got pollinated early, and so on...
                   if you can figure out where the pollen came from, you might want to save those seeds. hell, you might want to save
                   them anyway: kong "selfed" F2's, all female...



                   TOPIC - "Once more into the breach ... "
                   DATE - 15:08:43 6/21/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   I have neither the time or inclination to respond to every percieved slight or lapse of internet posting manners. This will
                   have to do for now.

                   sb: I doubt very much that you know me, or vice versa. I'm afraid that the BS is part of the package, and my best efforts
                   to be "nice" are often not sufficient. It seems that even a hint of sarcasm in verbotten in this "reality".

                   pi: Funny stuff. I had to laugh. Maybe we can get a development deal from White Castle?

                   Danbo: The soap bit is a good thing, a few drops per gallon every once in a while. Your home-brew recipe is like a Jerry
                   Baker trip, and will work.
                   The Fish Emulsion treatment evidently doesn't produce hermie's unless it's overdone.
                   I appreciate all the breeding concern, but my motivation in bringing up the subject of "all females" in the first place
                   came from reading several posts elsewhere online whining about getting many hermies and high %'s of male plants
                   when using some seed-bank products.

                   KQ: Have never heard of using methanol vapors, and would be most hesitant to do so. Somebody else will have to
                   research that one. I don't mess with poisons anymore.
                   Grow tricks should be both simple and effective and, hopefully, applicable to both indoor and outdoor spaces.

                   Budm: Yeah, the golden rule is a good one, and it's just so easy to be reactive when being flamed. Thanks for the

                   Numero 180: True, the CO bit Is innatural. But, I only revealed the method in response to being flamed for witholding it
                   in the first place, and never seriously suggested that anyone actually try it. The high N fertilizer method was what I
                   described First! The mention of the other, dangerous, method was included as an afterthought, and not intended as a
                   "tease". As I said previously, I tried it, and I got sick. If anyone wants to ignore the warning, that's tough.

                   It's been 20 or so years since I first read that research paper, ( on microfilm ) but I don't recall any ill effects being
                   ascribed to the plants after the CO treatment. Evidently the plants can "breathe" it without much difficulty, at least for a
                   while. The same can't be said for the rest of us.

                   The large plants we treated with CO some years ago certainly suffered no ill effects, but they didn't all go female either.
                   Probably much too late in their cycle to make a difference.

                   I'm all for "natural" methods, which is one reason I have No interest in Hydro growing.
                   Cheap and effective methods are often the best. If you can't put it in a backpack and haul it through the dismal swamp,
                   it's probably not worth the hassle in the first place.

                   Vic: Maybe I should lurk for a while so we can all cool off. As I've said previously, I'm not a techie, and have only the
                   slighest interest in internet "manners". I'm old and cranky and have very few, if any, "humble opinions".

                   I suspect that very few of the posters here and elsewhere online have any appreciation for what the herb pioneers had
                   to go through. How many holes can they clear, dig, fertilize, and plant, in a day? How far can they carry 10 gallons of
                   water? How many trips up and down hill before they keel over?

                   Yeah, I know this sounds "elitist", but in many respects this was, and is, a war, and many of us who have gone
                   through the flames have been hardened by the experience.




                   TOPIC - Test!
                   DATE - 14:19:34 6/21/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   Admire, Better make it 2 gallons of Draino. It takes 3 to
                   6 weeks to clean your system. Goodluck!


                   TOPIC - Weed
                   DATE - 13:58:51 6/21/99
                   FROM - admire
                   Eh, Can some one tell me, if I drink about 2 gallons of water, will that clean my system out so I can pass adrug test


                   TOPIC - Lil F'ers
                   DATE - 13:45:10 6/21/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   Nada , It's been my experience , if you had a hermie pop
                   you'd have more seeds. Maybe you pulled some stray pollen in on your clothes. If the seed was mature , you couldn't
                   have just happened at the end. I've grown many Kong and they
                   don't seem to herm easily.


                   TOPIC - late herm...will cuts be 'late' too?
                   DATE - 13:41:09 6/21/99
                   FROM - nada
                   Hey all-
                   Not much of a poster, but wanted some feedback on this one....
                   Recently harvested a few kong crosses and up till the other day there had been no sign of a herm, however last night I
                   found 5 seeds in one of the buds. I am assuming that one of the 3 plants hermed really late since there was so little
                   polination and had little effect on the flower development.

                   I have cuts outdoors, at least one of them is from the doner that hermed but the bud is all mixed together and I am not
                   sure which one it is from. I understand that the cut from the herm will herm just as the doner did, however, will it herm
                   late into flowering as the doner did?
                   how identical to the doner will it be?

                   thanks much



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 12:57:48 6/21/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Sorry about this Vic I won't post any more about it after this one :-A small update our government has said the usual
                   thing it a gateway drug. Which has prompted the Scottish health education board to respond with a statement saying
                   that the government is talking rubbish that cannabis is relatively harmless and that its the governments policies that
                   are making the problem. In that by making such a big thing about cannabis when people try it and find its affects quite
                   mild and pleasant that they then disbelieve what they say about all the other drugs. The Police of course are dead
                   against it. Which has prompted the SCLIA to comment that statistically the police use smokers as a soft target to
                   boost there arrest figures whenever they are a bit low instead of taking on the task of tackling real crime. I just love this
                   the shit is really in the fan. The Gov is trying to keep a blanket on the TV Co's but the BBC radio have been covering it
                   by the hour all day.


                   TOPIC - sorry offtopic Vic, but....Pi, you funny bro
                   DATE - 11:17:51 6/21/99
                   FROM - sb
                   Thanks Loads! Now, when can you come by and clean the coffee off of my screen and keyboard?
                   PS: I may have the round room in the works...checking on materials and playing with numbers today.

                   Curious G
                   Do I know you?
                   I swear that I recognize a character trait!haha! keep that info pumpin' sans BS please. I love the info even if it is
                   irrelevent due to it's impracticality



                   TOPIC - kq
                   DATE - 10:45:50 6/21/99
                   FROM - pi
                   i covered that base i think. note that i said that the methane gas was converted to methanol for use on your plants.



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 10:42:02 6/21/99
                   FROM - KQ
                   Pi that is pricless!! Sent me for a good 2 minute chuckle! But it is the alchohol called methanol--it has one more
                   Oxygen atom than methane, the cow fart. So if methanol could have effects on plant growth, possible ethanol could.
                   That goes by the name of booze.


                   TOPIC - i figured out George's secret..... heh
                   DATE - 10:38:45 6/21/99
                   FROM - pi
                   thanks kumquat for your clue..... methanal. as in cow farts.

                   george has come up with an idea to bag cow farts (methane). he has patented the first George's Fart Catcher made
                   from ....

                   you guessed it ... hemp. leaving no stone unturned left George with the idea of letting the cows process the hemp via
                   digestion than making fart catchers from the now processed hemp.

                   For only $29.95 (3 easy payments of $10.983333333) you too can catch cow farts and convert it to methanol for use on
                   your plants by getting your very own

                   George's Fart Catcher (patent pending) for 3 easy payments.

                   Buy NOW!



                   TOPIC - all female seedlings
                   DATE - 09:40:03 6/21/99
                   FROM - KQ
                   I suppose the deal with CO and all female seedlings would be very fine if you just wanted buds, but I would never
                   consider breeding with them. For breeding you would want every last Y gene to rear its ugly little head--so plant in
                   shallow pots, give wierd lighting shcedule, low nitrogen, high temps, throw in some ozone for good measure, and if all
                   else fails, spray with giberrellate. Only then, look for the female that has no pollen. That would be closer to a good
                   breeding mama.

                   180==> very good humor there. As concerns your spinach weed, it'll toke just fine or you can blame me for it [8^)...you
                   have email!

                   Curious George, have you ever heard of methanol vapors being good for plants? Some scientist in California has had
                   dramatic growth increases with plants exposed to low levels.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 07:32:07 6/21/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   KQ - thanks my friend :)

                   OT - that is great news! Definately a step ahead of the various "medical use" initiatives here in NA.

                   180 - I respectfully disagree a bit on how useful the info needs to be. I just love the info "FEED ME SEYMOUR!" haha.
                   It may not be practical in the way it's presented but it would enhance our understanding of the plants in general. Maybe
                   in time, as our understanding increases, we will find a practical use for the info.

                   HC - I have come across those impotent males from time to time. I usually just ditch them, thinking it is genetics.
                   However, I've had males that would freeely drop their load on one crop and then withhold it on another. This leaves me
                   to believe it is an environmental or health responce instead. I still have much to learn about male selection, haha



                   TOPIC - Wetting Agents
                   DATE - 06:41:19 6/21/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   I've been using Coco wet for years along with Spray n Grow.
                   I don't use it in soil application. It can and will
                   increase the efficiency of your plants ability to take up the available nutes though. Using soap not only works
                   as a surficant but also a chealating agent. Just a couple drops though.
                   Another way to change drainage habits while improving your plants uptake and your soils tension is to use a sylicate
                   sand in your mix. I heard tell this is a prevention
                   for powdery mildew as well.
                   One beer, one coke , and a cup of household ammonnia.
                   Put it in a hose end sprayer and watch your lawn green up.
                   It's true Jay. It's an old fashion cure all. It's like buttermilk and wheat flour to repell mites. It does work.
                   George, All the practical study does no good unless
                   in practice. All forcing female plants do,IMHO,is increase
                   your chance of a herman. Less crowding and favorable
                   conditions are still the best criteria for female plants
                   that'll stay that way.



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 06:33:49 6/21/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All,
                   CGeorge- I have a bit of experience in the water softening business, and the one thing that comes to mind that
                   changes the "ionic bonds" of water is Rock salt the sodium ion works in the machine to preciptate ion exchange in the
                   filter medium. Could you be thinking of sodium as a wetting agent? Because if anyones ever taking a shower with soft
                   water from a "complete house softner system" you come out of the shower feeling slippery as the water sort-of-sticks
                   to the skin, its feels like a weting agent has been applied to the skin.Well I dont know maybe Im just a "youngster" I
                   am a newcommer to gardening, and out of respect for Vic Ill bite my virtual tounge, and refrain from further comments.
                   If you want to be apart of somthing larger than yourself, these are IMO the nicest folks to do that with on the WWW,
                   but as in all things in life , the "golden rule" applies
                   here also.

                   OT1- That is great news, I wonder what countries desision to decrim/legalize will be the perverbial "Shot heard around
                   the world", and start the "domino affect" that is needed for global change?

                   Have a gret week all.



                   TOPIC - arguing against extreme measures
                   DATE - 05:02:22 6/21/99
                   FROM - numerologist 180
                   okay, so total immersion in pure CO "supposedly" resets the sex of the plants to all female. great!

                   here's a tidbit for ya george: a round trip to mars will do the same thing! put all your seeds in a spacecraft, presto: all
                   female, hooray!! and you can now thank me on bended knee (or with lots of money).

                   okay, so your sarcastic rudeness to kumquat (who is no slouch in the brains or experience department) elicited more
                   sarcasm. my humble apologies...

                   we've all heard claims, and we all know how to produce all-female crops by less dangerous and costly means (forcing
                   hermaphrodism). the question i ALWAYS ask is, is this something the plant might encounter in a "natural"
                   environment???? with the pure CO gassing, the answer is a resounding "NO"!
                   and you failed to report on the survival rate of the gassed plants, and on the quality of their finished product: a bunch of
                   sickly females that have been exposed to a hostile (toxic, mutagenic) environment are not what we look for here, we
                   want healthy plants with good phenotypic expression of their inherited traits...

                   incidentally, a russian study showed that the sex ratio could be positively affected (more females) simply by giving the
                   plants adequate soil depth (root space) after germination.
                   other processes have also achieved noteworthy results: i believe there was someone reporting that high-N foliars on
                   seedlings brought his ratio to 80% female. of course that was anecdotal...

                   george, we need practical, safe, real-world techniques that can be used in the hobby grow as well as on a larger scale.
                   and we need them here and now, for free: that's the purpose of this board, to disseminate quality info free of charge or
                   commercial entanglements....



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 04:30:47 6/21/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   A bit of hot news The Scottish Medical Association have today called for marijuana to be legalised for both medical and
                   recreational use! One of the things they said is that it is ludicrous that something as harmless as marijuana should
                   illegal especialy when compared with alcohol. This should really put the cat among the pigeons haha!


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 03:52:30 6/21/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Hi H.C. Nice to see you here! JH is supposed to be a sativa dominant hybrid and difficult to grow. From the small
                   sample I've germinated its easy to grow but very variable mainly tall sat also a short sat and an indica form. The sat
                   vars smell just like fresh thai very nice indeed. The indica just smells a bit fruity and went a little hermy dam it.



                   TOPIC - Oil over troubled waters...
                   DATE - 03:02:43 6/21/99
                   FROM - KQ
                   No problem Vic, I just had to register my dissatisfaction somehow. It will not lead to any sort of escalation, believe me!

                   Thanks to George for the monoxide twist. (You seem to be able to ferret out cutting edge stuff and I admire that. But it
                   would serve our cause better if the info was made available for all of us to "overgrow the goverment".) I am not positive it
                   would take a pure atmosphere of CO to accomplish this. I've been thinking about pure gas environments lately, George,
                   and I think I can add a somewhat new dimension here. I was wondering how to make a pure gaseous environment, and
                   here is what I came up with: Just flush and ventilate about three times, that would dilute any air sufficiently. Or wrap the
                   rootball in plastic, fill the chamber with water, then pipe in gas as the water drains out.
                   One thing you didn't say was a what growth stage it worked best with CO. My guess is seedlings, but, I don't have the
                   botanical abstract resources that you do. Maybe you would like to *share* the link with your group? also, how long was
                   the treatment, how often? I find it pretty wild that CO would turn a ready-to-flower-male-plant into a female, but life is full
                   of suprises!

                   On the topic of CO as a gas, I got poisoned once drilling holes in the ground with a 2-man auger, gasoline powered.
                   We worked at it all day and put in 100 14 inch holes into some very hard but rich soil. I had to drive home that evening
                   and I kept falling asleep uncontrollably on the road. Just thought I was super tired, but my bro, who didn't have to drive
                   had the same condition. I do remember that we sniffed quite a few fumes during that drilling. So I guess I got some CO

                   Any one here ever gander at the old popular science and popular mechanics magazines from around the turn of the
                   century? Well, I used to frequent a library with the whole collection and it is just fascinating what these oldtimers could
                   do. It seems that there were very few restrictions as to what a tinkerer could buy. If I needed some wierd chems or
                   gasses in that era, someone in town could get it for me and it would be up to me not to kill myself. Now we have a
                   climate where nobody is responsible for their own behavior and it is our insidious gov't that is creeping in to protect us
                   from ourselves. I highly resent this! So naturly, when I find someone trying to protect me from myself, the rebel in me
                   gets triggered!


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 02:23:46 6/21/99
                   FROM - H.C.
                   People of the BONG. Pervayors of the good herb.
                   Thanks Ot1 for your timely e-mail. I was beginning to get that feeling of isolation again. The info. on the flowering time
                   of jh confirmed what I had hoped wasent true. Its almost identical to ww. I was really hopeing for a much shorter period
                   but it looks like all 3 will come in at about the same time.Makes for a very hectic harvest to say the least.
                   All I have to say about it; is, its the strangeist plant I have ever grown but the nicest smelling that have ever come in
                   contact with.Makes my mouth water just thinking of it.
                   Got over that little incident with mama but did have to make some real heavy promises that I must keep. Hell, what
                   else could I do. They didnt fit the decorum but I had no other choice.
                   By the way Ot1; I had a real difficult time getting any polen froh the jh. Not very much and appeared to resent giving it
                   up. Hopefully there was enough to go arround
                   I had allways kinda thought that jack herer was an indutca but could I be wrong?


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 22:50:10 6/20/99
                   FROM - t2
                   high dog thats all i've seen about it so far


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 20:56:48 6/20/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   George - your posts are slowly becoming less and less welcome. All others were saying is that why bring it up if you
                   are not going to share. If you want to keep a secret, then fine, keep it. But how about laying off the dangling carrots will
                   ya? KQ, please don't give George the responce he deserves.

                   George, this is no secret, but I think it's only fair to warn you that this place keeps a detailed log of those that post
                   here. Please chill.


                   TOPIC - Here you go KQ ... enjoy!
                   DATE - 17:36:55 6/20/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   OK youngster ...

                   Since you evidently don't have the inclination to get off your butt and search the botanical abstracts, here's how
                   researchers reported treating seedlings to cause 100% female plants.

                   They had the plants in a small, enclosed, area that was airtight. Then, for a period of several hours, they flooded the
                   plants with an atmosphere of pure Carbon Monoxide. That's CO, not CO2, and it will be quite unpleasant if you get a
                   whiff of it. Of course, you won't even Know you've gotten a snootfull until you have already been exposed and are feeling
                   sick since CO has No Odor!

                   So, run on down to your local scientific / medical gas supply house and order yourself a big-old tank of Carbon
                   Monoxide, hook up the regulator and try to figure out how you're going to remove the room air from the plants, how
                   you're going to know when the chamber is saturated with CO, how your going to contain the CO once it's in there, how
                   your going to completely vent it, and how you're going to avoid gassing the neighbors and their household pets.

                   Think it's worth the hassle? Think it's worth the risk? Think it's worth the expense? Think again.

                   So, in the future, please don't get your shorts in a knot. If I didn't have the experience, I wouldn't have brought it up. I
                   First described the Safe way to try to achieve the same result. You've got no reason to whine

                   As for the "wetting agent" bit, the compound I mentioned is not marketed in gardening stores, and the phrase "wetting
                   agent" does not appear on the label or in any of the company literature. It's been said that it changes the ionic bonds of
                   water. Does that ring a bell? Probably not.

                   As for your idignation over a possible "commercial" venture, get bent. It is indeed unfortunate that people in Western
                   culture do not place a high value on things that they can get for free. They trust and value things that are purchased. No
                   need to go into the psychology of it here, but if I can spread the word and get paid for it, it needn't be any of your
                   concern. I'm giving away my experience, here but have little inclination to give it All away.

                   If the commercial bit doesn't work out, I'll blab it here. In the meantime, figure it out for yourself, buy my book, or wait a
                   while longer.


                   TOPIC - KQ
                   DATE - 11:04:10 6/20/99
                   FROM - 180
                   duh, hey man, i poured scalding water on my plants (figured i'd hit the tops too, while i was at it), and now they're all
                   wilty and like blanched spinach an' chit! I hold YOU personally responsible, LOL!

                   seriously though: afm used to water outdoor plants with warm water (~90 F) during the cold days at the end of the
                   season (this was back before he found some good early genetics, working with mexican seed.). tried any trick you
                   could think of to get the plants warmed up as soon as there was sunshine, because even with good sun, the plant
                   really can't do much until the soil temp gets above 65 F. when your daytime temps only go into the 60's, the root mass
                   may never get above 60, leading to poor h2o/nutrient uptake, and basically shutting the plants down...

                   i use fairly cool water during hot temps. root zones should stay in the 70-75 F range (according to charts in the old Ed
                   books, and common sense). cooler water also holds more dissolved oxygen, better aerating roots...



                   TOPIC - hay yu! HA!
                   DATE - 10:45:51 6/20/99
                   FROM - 180
                   hey perp :-)



                   TOPIC - That and this....
                   DATE - 10:38:23 6/20/99
                   FROM - KQ.
                   Whoever wants a simple soil wetting method try this: Very warm to hot water. Depends on if your soil is cold or not.
                   Nothing brightens a cold root system than some warm nutrient! (in soil) I've also noticed that warm/hot liquids will
                   thoroughly wet dry problem soils. Seems like after you get the moisture in a time or two, it doesnt get so dry like it
                   was at first. Also, the roots metabolism really picks up. I can do this because I know what I can get away with, but I
                   can here some newbie saying he's fried his roots cuz he was using boiling water!

                   Hey Curious George, I bet i'm not the only one here getting a little weary of your "I'll tell you later" and "can't tell you
                   now" type of posts. You could get valuable feedback on your ideas if you post them, maybe a spin that you never
                   thought of and could really help you. That is what we are all here for, helping each other. Some of your posts take up
                   close to a foot of my screen and give nothing more than hints that you are going to try to make a commercial killing
                   (greed: pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered) off of some idea, or you are trying to protect us from ourselves. Now don't be
                   like Al Gore!!!

                   There are people on this board that have forgotten more than some of us have ever learned! Take advantage of their


                   TOPIC - Green Gardens
                   DATE - 09:50:33 6/20/99
                   FROM - High Dog
                   I have purchased halide bulbs from them in person, but not mail order. Who/what is ENTF? I hope they are not taking
                   down license plate numbers. Any additional information would be appreciated.

                   High Dog


                   TOPIC - Hmmm, Gee....could it be....
                   DATE - 07:43:42 6/20/99
                   FROM - Perp
                   ....."ALL" brand liquid detergent???? ....I-duh-no!.....


                   TOPIC - curious george, clarification
                   DATE - 06:12:29 6/20/99
                   FROM - 54
                   no offense george, but your tease did me no good, as i already know plenty about wetting agents, and as vic says
                   there are a slew of them on the market.
                   my interest was in hearing others' experience USING ORGANIC WETTING AGENTS AVAILABLE CHEAPLY OR IN
                   THE HOME (not some product you might want to sell me in a couple of years, #@%&!).
                   i've used soap, but i'm looking for something that will degrade faster, or even be "nutritious" to the plants in foliar or
                   drench applications. the commercial sticker/spreader products such as fish oil, yucca extract, etc, are too fancy/hard
                   to get for my purposes...i've used blackstrap molasses in both foliar and drench apps, thinking it might help, but it
                   doesn't seem to make that much difference in the wetting qualities of the h2o (it is however a great source of K, CA,
                   Fe, Mg). fish emulsions also don't seem to make that much difference in wetting.
                   this has not caused me any problems, the plants are super healthy, but i'm always looking for ways to accelerate
                   growth in both veg and flower.

                   GGreen, thanks for the coco-wet info, it sounds like a coconut oil-based "soap" (non-ionic surfactants). perhaps my
                   best choice would be an "all-natural" liquid castile soap; there are a few, but dr. bronner's comes to mind (read bottle
                   while stoned for madcap laughs)...



                   TOPIC - wetting agent
                   DATE - 01:59:26 6/20/99
                   FROM - GGreen
                   I've been using "COCO-WET" all natural wetting agent from Spray-N-Grow, Inc. It's a non-ionic surfactant & spray
                   adjuvant. Directions call for 1/2 teaspoon/gal (1 ml/liter)

                   I've found that it helps tremendously when used with liquid seaweed and fulvic acid during foliar feeding.

                   I've used dish soap up until recently but figure if I'm going to grow organically it might as well be 100% (just don't count
                   the occasional few drops of Superthrive)


                   TOPIC - wetting agents
                   DATE - 23:04:14 6/19/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Hey curious, being an organic soil grower, I've never cared enough to grab a label name, but am pretty sure I've seen
                   weeting agents in many of the local hydro stores. Up here wetting agents are a dime a dozen. In fact, isn't a wetting
                   agent anything that reduces water tension to increase it's ability to spread and stick? In fact I believe dish soap would
                   be a wetting agent?


                   TOPIC - green gardens rumour?
                   DATE - 22:04:40 6/19/99
                   FROM - t2
                   anybody still in touch with cha cal?sorry to paste this post in here but i know people who have mail ordered from here.
                   Kenneth Green writes to Anyone in Seattle on 6/20/99 at 0:46:04

                   Ever heard of Green Gardens in Bellevue? They sell lights, etc.
                   ENTF is busting customers out of there right and left.
                   We know first hand being our grow operation has been raided.
                   Would like to talk to others in the Seattle area.



                   TOPIC - pi
                   DATE - 20:12:12 6/19/99
                   FROM - jay
                   dude drop me an email ,we need to talk...


                   TOPIC - Eng 54 - Wetting agent
                   DATE - 19:50:10 6/19/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   There is a readily available product that acts, more or less, like a wetting agent. I have found it quite usefull in many
                   herb grow situations, but if not properly diluted or used in the wrong way, it can kill plants dead. No symptons to
                   assuage, no way out, no way to stop it, just Dead.

                   The biggest benefits of a wetting agent in herb growing could be in hydro systems where they could allow the use of
                   1/2 the usual dose of fertilizer. ( If you're using chemical rather than organic fertilizers, I suspect that there is a better
                   chance of an OD. However, I have no idea what would happen if purely organic solutions were used full strength. )
                   Since I've never grown hydro, this is all theoretical. Maybe it would be great, maybe not.

                   The risks of misuse of this particular wetting agent-like product are All on the plant, rather than on the grower. The stuff
                   is non-carcinogenic and non-mutagenic. I've been using it for over 20 years, but have never seen in mentioned in a
                   gardening article or in High Times.

                   However, I'm not going to reveal the name of this particular product. At least not now. You can try to figure it out from
                   the hints, but I have my reasons for not publicising it right now. I need a little lead time to prepare for a possible
                   commercial venture. If thatdoesn't work out, I'll certainly post a long monograph here about all my experiences with it. (
                   By the way, this stuff works well on on both plants and animals, including humans. )

                   Sorry if this sounds like a tease. But I'd rather be cautious, and suggest that you folks be cautious with all wetting
                   agents since they can and will kill plants.

                   This is not like fertilizer of Superthrive of other stuff that people use at higher than recomended doses. This stuff can be
                   both very helpful, and very lethal to plants, and I don't want any of you to screw up your garden on my account.

                   So, check out the other pot boards that have search capability and see what they say about wetting agents. Then
                   check back here. I wouldn't be surprised if someone out there knows the name of my mystery product, and it's OK with
                   me if they post it.

                   Almost a test. If nobody out there has the Faintest idea what I'm talking about, maybe the commercial venture will fly.

                   Have a fabulous weekend !



                   TOPIC - Pi and RainDrip and Accu-Drip
                   DATE - 18:59:52 6/19/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   Pi I have Raindrip products all over the yard for flowerbeds and almost My entire drip/nft hybrid grow op is Raindrip. I
                   highly recomend all thier products as long as You think "Prefilter!" w/ sponges and there inline screen filter if using any
                   nutes. Plain h2o works slick as hell in drip or spray via there devices w/ minimal filtering thats provided. OH FUCK I
                   just realized it was ACCU-Drip products I started out with!LOL Both are great and work well combined. Accu-Drip sells
                   the drip lines You want w/o any emittor on the end, just tube and stake. Drippers vary from 1/2 gph on up. Pretty trick
                   IMO, it's what I preffer anyhoo;)
                   Look them up and I'll see if I can find a link for You.
                   Peace Friends, Blaze


                   TOPIC - greenbear-gws
                   DATE - 14:52:38 6/19/99
                   FROM - la.bud
                   hey GB , please email me thanks


                   TOPIC - ot1 and all
                   DATE - 14:24:26 6/19/99
                   FROM - pi
                   thanks for the info on auto watering. keep it up.

                   ot1.... yes it would be nice to see a small set up if not too much trouble and others were interested as well.

                   i have already gravitated past white shower curtain and pond liner and will be using these blue polypropylene tarps that
                   are reinforced with nylon ((2) 10x15 for $15 at Sam's). gonna nail (4) 1x2 to the floor thru the carpet and throw the tarp
                   over to create a pan. no bulky homemade pans to deal with. would be nice to have a slight slope to the pan for drainage
                   that way i could eliminate the plastic plant trays to catch runoff. that would require a rigid raisable bottom though.

                   i also use shower curtains from wal-mart at $2.34 per for walls. i wanted white opaque walls all the way around but i
                   wanted to be able to move and maintain them easily.also i did not want the walls full length but i wanted a gap at the
                   floor and ceiling for air movement.

                   my solution was to take and mount hooks (not eyes) into the ceiling joists so that i could hang a shower curtain rod
                   made of 1" dia pvc all the way around my grow and my soon to be pan. this leaves a space at both the bottom and the
                   top of my wall. next i went to wall mart and bought enuf shower curtains and those plastic hangers to completely
                   surround my grow (1+2+1+2=6). i also bought only one set of 6 black curtains as i found that the curtain was not
                   opaque. wrong!!!!. needed a third set of black liners for a total of 18 liners or about $45. easy to clean, cheap, reflective,
                   easy/cheap to replace ($2.34) and i can move them easily out of the way. will be using velcro to configure the walls a
                   little better and i may add another rod at the bottom of the curtains via velcro to keep them from wafting in the breeze of
                   (2) 21" industrial cirulating fans ($ 40 @ Sams)and a 15000 btu wall a/c. i now keep my room cool or around 75 F.

                   my setup is approx 5x9 using 10"pots and 12" plastic saucers so i could conceivable fit at least 45 plants under 2 (1) k
                   lights. not enuf light for canupy at present so i will go to 28 total or 7 rows of 4 (3+1+3).

                   eventually i will be buying a light rail and also upgrading to (2) state of the art reflector/bulbs/ballast. ideally i would like
                   to combine a light cirle and light rail movement somehow so i could have a (1) 1k hps and (1) 1k mh both rotating and
                   moving linearly back and forth over my grow like a ceiling fan hung on a rail and moved back and forth... the best of
                   both worlds.

                   betcha i could design one real easy by combining parts from the light rail and light circle bill on materials.

                   what ever happened to round and x-10 rulz! ha!

                   comments questions and suggestions are welcome. :8)-~~~~~~~



                   TOPIC - A tip FWIW
                   DATE - 12:27:39 6/19/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All, afoaf has a success story to share in reguards to clonining, hes found a great way thats working all of the time.
                   He has a seperate veg area, about 6sqft, what he uses is 24oz "Solo Brand" plastic drink cups,& 4" RW cubes, he
                   soaks the cubes overnight, takes cuttings and refridgrates them in tupperware overnight also. Then next day cuts all
                   but the grow tip and the next two leaves off, the two leaves below the growtip get there tips cut off (thanks Vic) to help
                   with resperation, then they have there stem cut at a angle, diped in water, and then dipped in "RootTone powder"
                   then take the 4" cube jam it into the cup just about 1" into it, then with a nail start 4 holes 1 in each corner, and stick
                   cuttings into them, he then places thease cups in the veg area, either next to the 2 gal pots or in kitty litter trays, he
                   puts some water in the bottom of the cups to keep them from tipping over, they get sprayed with plain water once a
                   day, and the cube is kept moist with a soultion of 1qt water 3 drops "BioBlend fert Grow/veg" and ST, today he planted
                   4 Jack Flash clones that went into a cube on the 6/13 and today all 4 had roots 1-3". No dome no flouro's,(he has a
                   400mh) real easy. I think part of the reason it works is the cube is suspended with no water at the bottom just air, in in
                   conjuction with the refridg and the tip cutting, they all just work well together. When they are ready just be carefull
                   pulling the RW apart, as to not snap roots. It also works great for taking those late clones in the later weeks of flower,
                   basically re-veging with a cut full of flower's, in that case a Bat gauno tea is applied to the cube every week, this seems
                   to help them re-vert to veg growth. I hope some one gets some use from this, its especially usefull for doing clones with
                   little frequency, or as I said with late cutts, of that one you just dont want to let get away.


                   OT1- Thank You;-) Sending email by monday.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 09:01:39 6/19/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   engine54 (hoo-hooooo) When we tested the system we tried just the tubes there were two probs they kept getting
                   dislodged and after a week or so the water started making holes in the compost. The little cage on the flood pins
                   doesn't do this as the water seeps out gently all round. Even so after several weeks of use the compost surface still
                   crusts a bit. I still haven't set this up in a full grow yet as I've been running a perpetual harvest for a bit. On the small
                   test rig the heading tank was fed from the Ro via an adjustable ball valve. The tank fill could be adjusted to cut off
                   between 20 to 35 litres. There were 36 plants in 4 litre containers in our temperatures the plants early on need .75 of a
                   litre every 2 -3 days and once making buds 1 litre. We always add 35% h2o2 at 3 to 4 ml per 10 litres, When we added
                   fish fert or something smelly it was added manually and stirred into the full tank the valve opened and the tank allowed
                   to drain down. The inlet was opened for some more water a bit of h2o2 added and the outlet opened to flush the pipes.
                   The system stayed as sweet as a nut over a 10 week grow. As a test we ran the system for 2 weeks just watering by
                   removing the down flow valve and putting one of those battery operated water valves they sell for watering gardens
                   automatically in its place, it was set to open for 15 mins every other day. All the plants are in a tray lined with pond
                   liner and capillary matting, the whole system works just fine and all our co-op members are adopting it I'm one of the
                   Hope this helps Ot1.


                   TOPIC - oh, duh; raindrip link
                   DATE - 08:09:18 6/19/99
                   FROM - 54
                   forgot the obvious one:


                   big catalog of drip prods, FAQ and help pages, kits, etc.


                   TOPIC - vic, evap cooling linkage
                   DATE - 08:04:48 6/19/99
                   FROM - eng54
                   vic, pursuant to some earlier discussion on evap cooling, and also pi's Q about a watering system:


                   link is to a discussion on low-tech, low-pressure drip systems. several posters name sources for drip products.


                   an extensive catalog of low pressure drip parts, plus FAQ and links to info pages. seems like a helpful intro site for


                   link is to a commercial site, low pressure evap cooling systems for home use. a poster at another site said he thought
                   they were a bit expensive...


                   link page of manufacturers, suppliers, nurseries, etc.

                   i also ran across some product info for a surfactant, a wetting agent. they had all kinds of positive claims for their
                   product (better root development, increased growth and production, etc.), and it occurred to me that you might have
                   some experience with wetting agents, or be able to recommend some common solutions (i think adding a few drops of
                   soap to your water is supposed to help, etc.). many hobby & commercial growers use peat-based media, and these
                   are not always hydrophilic...i'd like to find a reliable organic wetting agent, preferably household & cheap! any ideas?




                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 07:00:37 6/19/99
                   FROM - engine54 (hoo-hooooo)
                   shaggy, nice post :)
                   having the "best weed in town" can be both a blessing and a burden!
                   some friends of mine work with the holyweed and x's thereof, in- and outdoors on the left coast. they are inclined to
                   rave about its incredible potency and harshly strong smoke. af got a baglet of mixed x's (romberry, p.75, ww), when he
                   gets around to starting them i will post the results.

                   hmm, thanks ot1, yes the drip system would work with flood pins or open-ended 1/4" tubes instead of drip emitters.
                   then the smallest constriction would be at the tubing connectors, which have an inside diameter of <1/8".
                   additional necessary equipt for adding organics (IMHO):
                   higher pressure pump, aerated/agitated reservoir (separate powerhead, or "T" diversion after pump, dumping back into
                   reservoir), additional in-line filtration.
                   otherwise your res will turn into an anaerobic cesspool, waaaay stinky!



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 00:20:02 6/19/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Vic sent 3 emeys could you let me know they landed ok? Its a beautiful sunny day once again I'm off out to sample
                   the day.Ot1


                   TOPIC - occam
                   DATE - 23:51:15 6/18/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Hey bud, could you email me? Got a Q for you.



                   TOPIC - nitric acid
                   DATE - 16:02:02 6/18/99
                   FROM - occam
                   To anyone who can help:
                   A friend generally uses phosphoric acid for decreasing pH; sent girlfriend for some, she came back with nitric acid. It
                   takes about the same ml/L to get the same result as phosphoric acid. Should he expect any major difference in growth
                   patterns or...? Perhaps lighten up on N a bit?
                   I would use WB's search engine, but I don't like the vibes in that place right now.


                   TOPIC - sage x big sur holy (attn: peaceness & Soul)
                   DATE - 13:11:34 6/18/99
                   FROM - shaggy
                   Hey there buddy,

                   As far as I'm aware, I'm the only dude to grow this particular strain. I bought my seeds direct from Adam at Hempworks
                   in Amsterdamn in the fall of '97. I'd been living in asia for about 4 years and decided to pick up a couple seeds from
                   A'dam before returning to my hemisphere. I went planning on getting some skunk #1 or nl (I was woefully uninformed
                   about the current state of breeding), but when I got there I was completely confused. White widow? What the hell is
                   that? LOL. Anyway, I made it to Adam's shop and he highly recommended the sage x big sur holy. Although not
                   available in any coffeehouses, Adam pulled a big old bong out from behind the counter and packed up a little sage for
                   me. OK, now first a few caveats...while I had spent a lot of time in SE Asia (Laos is heaven...) and India recently,
                   bonghits are not exactly a standard thing. (a sidenote, graffix-style bongs did originate in southern Yunnan province,
                   Northern Vietnam. They set up little stands everywhere where men gather, drink tea, and smoke TOBACCO out of
                   those puppies. Needless to say, I was pretty confused for a while--I didn't think it was tobacco. Lol!). Also, while there
                   is some killer weed in India, it's not available everywhere. The best hash comes from Malawi [I think] while the best
                   weeed is from down south, Kerala if I'm not mistaken. In other words, I wasn't used to bonghits. Well, this one hit (plus
                   a tug to clean out the tube) sent me into outer space. I freaked. I couldn't think and was completely out of control. All I
                   could do is say goodbye and promise to return tomorrow. Well, I did, and I got those seeds.

                   Let's just say that my first grow was educational LOL. We'll chalk that up to experience. My temps were high and my
                   two females (of 8) produced copious, but very fluffy nugs. They were often greeted with contempt by the uninitiated.
                   However, the hazey-type was there,although not quite as strong as the A'dam stuff. The problem was that it didn't
                   seem done even at 12 weeks. I cut it down and attributed the problem to my high temps (110F).

                   Well...my 2nd indoor attempt worked like a charm with my c88, greatwhiteshark, romberry, and blueberry. Nice dense
                   nugs, great organic smell, great yeilds for a 430 hps. However, the sage produced the same, stringy, fluffy nugs as
                   before. And it still tooks WAY too long. I hacked it down at 13 weeks...Upon further investigation, I came to the
                   conclusion that the "problem" boils down to sage's haze ancestry. First of all, I don't know that 38w/ft2 is enough for a
                   haze variety. The buds grew in individual clusters instead of dense nugs(not that it's a problem, but it's interesting). If
                   you look at a picture of sensiseeds'(?) Marley's collie, you'll see a similar structure. The sage is markedly different than
                   any other strain I've ever seen. It's definitely a personaly stash type of weed. The high is too much for some of my
                   friends. Ever smoke real thai or possibly Laoation bud? Looks can often be deceiving. This batch's nugs cured to an
                   intense lemony smell--in fact very similar to my romberry despite their obvious differences. In fact, now that Soul's
                   around maybe he can give us a lesson on Haze--it's bud structure, flower/leaf ration (sage is 100/0 no leaves in the bud
                   at all, well ok, a couple, but very few). My friends and I can only smoke it mixed with other, slower weeds, unless we're
                   mountain biking or otherwise fully physically challenged. Otherwise, it's just too damn intense. Very haze-influenced.

                   Ok, now here's the weird part. Recently, t.h.seeds put its website up (change sagarmartha's site to say ~hemp at the
                   end). When I bought it, it was called sage x big sur holy. However, today it's called S.A.G.E. I never thought anything
                   of it until someone who is growing it posted some pictures at the 'Base. The crazy thing is that his S.A.G.E looks
                   nothing like what I had. Instead of long, thin, sativa leaves, it has wider, bluer, indica looking leaves. There's no doubt in
                   my mind that they're different strains. OR, quite possibly, Adam crossed his sage x big sur holy with an indica. Damion
                   (who posts here sometimes) has met Adam and was quite taken with the S.A.G.E. Adam told him that it was a haze x
                   heavy yeilding afghani. So what's going on? Only Adam knows the truth and the Hempworks website has been "in the
                   mix" now for at least a year.

                   Ok, I've rambled on and on. Feel free to ask follow-ups. In my last grow, I crossed my remaining male to my c88
                   seeds. I've got about 50 or so, but until I can devote myself to a real breeding project, they'll have to sit in the freezer. In
                   the meantime, I'm giving all this indoor stuff a break. The last batch I grew proved to cure to a strength hitherto unknown
                   in these parts. People are simply amazed when I pull out a jar and demand to know where I got it...also, my friends
                   have been getting too high and want to know if I've got something weaker, heheh. I love it, but I beginning to know what
                   they mean. After all those years of schwag, a 5-6 hour high with no residual headache is a weird thing! Besides,
                   summer here is just too hot indoors to grow. Of course, I'll still be around to answer questions, etc.

                   Hope this helped,
                   stay safe,

                   ps: Soul, if you're interested in those c88 x (sage x big sur holy) seeds, just let me know. You might be interested in
                   the genetics. Of course, I haven't grown any out, so they might all be crap...or gold.

                                              Link: All of my posts...check the later ones ...


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 13:02:35 6/18/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   007 like the handle, flood pins are made for handling organic solutions providing its not to lumpy.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 12:57:15 6/18/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Budm In case you missed it below could you drop me a line please! As far as males go they either reveg fast or just
                   wilt away. It is best to to make a dad under at least 18/6 and keep it trimmed every few weeks I've kept them alive for
                   several years without recloning, it is also easer with tropical / equatorial types than indicas.

                   pi the flood pins work easily with gravity, the bottom of the tank needs to be about 3 ft or more above the top of the soil
                   level for 78 pots you need a 3/4" down feed pipe from the tank. You T from that with 1/2" pipe between every other row
                   of pots, at every pair of pots you insert a small T with a spaghetti tube going to each pot with a flood pin in. If you want
                   I'll set up a small run say 6 pots and send you a picture. The people here that do all that stuff are Nutriculture off hand
                   don't know if they have an emey/Web P addy but they advertise inside the back page of Gromag, let me know if you
                   want a pick!!

                   Soul this isn't business so i think its ok and interesting of the P75 x P_Bro most were completely finished on day 46
                   on 12/12 but one smells and looks just the same except today is 71 days and the dam thing keeps producing new
                   flushes of pistils the main cola while not tall is now over 5 inches in diameter the plant is still healthy have you seen
                   this before or any idea why? With my vars I'd expect this haha but its got more white hairs than than the sat JH's which
                   are the only other ones left in. As an after word at 46 days it looked nearly done then in two days it produced so many
                   pistils that it went white and you couldn't see the small leaves or bud it has done the same thing twice since I have
                   never seen anything like it in over 35 years of growing!

                   All the best Ot1


                   TOPIC - vic, pi
                   DATE - 11:58:19 6/18/99
                   FROM - 007
                   vic, thanks man: i respect your judgement and discretion. thanks for the great chat :-)

                   pi, you can find the stuff you're looking for at home depot (pump, reservoir, in the "water garden" section), walmart or
                   kmart (tubing, emitters; gardening). the variable flow pump is not an option ($$), but you can control the volume with a
                   valve of some sort. also, the manifold may be hard to find; af ended up opting for a ring-shaped set-up of 1/2" hose (fed
                   by pump at reservoir). the ring is run around the grow, and shorter 1/4" feeder hoses are run to emitters staked at each

                   if system is run on plain h2o (plus a dab of peroxide for algae, pythium, etc), drip emitters can be used. this will provide
                   for even distribution of h2o among the plants. however, emitters can vary, and also, residual pressure in the delivery line
                   can cause them to drip well after the pump is shut off, so it's a good idea to check the set-up in operation for a couple
                   days before you need it....in my friend's opinion, this system wouldn't work with any organic content; that stuff must be
                   delivered separately. make sure they eat hearty before you go away!

                   the components i've seen at walmart (and other places, kmart or hardware stores that have a garden section) are made
                   by "raindrip". they are also sold by wormsway, at higher prices of course.



                   TOPIC - Try This, Pi
                   DATE - 11:53:27 6/18/99
                   FROM - Bud Bundy
                   Stumbled across this site a few months back...sounds like it could be what your looking for. It definitely falls under
                   your "cheap" criteria.

                   It says this product can handle up to 30 plants, and has a 3.5 gal reservoir.

                                                       Link: Plantsitter 30


                   TOPIC - ot1/all
                   DATE - 09:13:15 6/18/99
                   FROM - pi
                   could you explain a flood pin again or direct me via an link.

                   i am thinking that it is just a stake that attaches to the end of the black tubing so that you can water your plants
                   without an emmitter?

                   i want to set up an auto watering system that is cheap,reliable and maiantenance free as possible. i currently use 10"
                   pots which i beleive are about 2.5 gal in worm castings/verm/perl.

                   i see a need for...

                   - emmitter or 'flood pin' at the plant
                   - black tubing of equal length for each plant
                   - pump to tubing manifold
                   - variable flow pump
                   - reservoir

                   i currently use x-10 so can water however and whenever i want.

                   any suggestions or links would be appreciated.




                   TOPIC - revegging males
                   DATE - 08:21:35 6/18/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Budm, I've actually found it easier to reveg a male than a female. I sinmply hack it back removing most of the main bud
                   shoots and then return it to veg lighting. I often wait for it to show some new veg growth before repotting into fresh soil.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 08:12:13 6/18/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All,
                   I picked up on the idea to replicate the one lone Panama Red that af has, hes a male that shed some pollen, now hes
                   going to pollinate a female Neviles Haze and af is going to backcross with pollen untill it replicates the PR, the one
                   thing that is impressive with this one male PR is in flower he only streached 8", so it looks like it may be maniagable
                   indoors. Vic or any one else, this male needs to be put back into veg,and either cloned or re-generated for more pollen,
                   are there any special considerations for males going back into veg? as af has never done this before with a male.
                   Thanks in advanced;-) and a great weekend to all.



                   TOPIC - god dammit
                   DATE - 06:38:52 6/18/99
                   FROM - funkdified
                   When I type the addy in myself, I get there no problem. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Well here it is.



                   TOPIC - You got it Vic
                   DATE - 22:30:53 6/17/99
                   FROM - flick
                   The height difference was to small to make that much of difference Vic but it doesn't matter you gave the answer...

                   Suntwist with air cooled lights.
                   Unless of course he decides to stick with the solution he came up with earlier today--use more CO2 with a bigger flow

                   I would go with the suntwist myself.

                   I thank you and AkA thanks you --he made me promise to sign off with his thing when he posted a couple of times..

                   Make em catch us all



                   TOPIC - Biostimulant Bacteria
                   DATE - 21:59:58 6/17/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   Went prowling through a agri store recently and came up with a product to try out on the veggies out back.

                   It's called "Bio Pack", and comes as a 1 lb jar of dark powder that's enough to treat 100 gallons of water. The contents
                   label list three different kinds of bacteria: Nitrogen fixing bacteria, Phosphorus Solubilizing bacteria, and something
                   called "beneficial bacteria"

                   However, the ingredients don't stop there ... and there's the rub ... even though they are billed as "natural organic
                   ingredients", I'm curious about this "other stuff", and what it does.

                   Humate and Humic acids are 40% by weight, cold water kelp is 35%, Natural sugars ( sucrose ) Vitamins ( B-complex,
                   K ), Amino acids and beneficial bacteria combined are 20%. Citric and citric buffers are 5%, and Soluble Potash ( K2O
                   ) derived from Humate & kelp is 12%.

                   The package states that "Bio-Pak is designed for use as a root drench treatment." Some of the instructions mention
                   root growth stimulation and stress recovery. Could some of the stuff in here be like Superthrive? The gist of what I've
                   researched online on Superthrive seemed to say that it was fine for root growth but not helpful during fruiting or

                   Anyone know anything about this stuff ? I'm going to try it on buckets of peppers and tomatos, & I'll let you folks know
                   if there's any big difference.



                   TOPIC - First-Timer
                   DATE - 15:33:41 6/17/99
                   FROM - Eddie Walker

                   I've decided to try out my green thumb and have the slightest idea where to start from. Here's my situation. I will be
                   growing outside. I have no need for irrigation because the site will be on a hill and there is a natural spring watering it.
                   My climate is Pacific NW Seattle area. My questions are as follows:
                   1) when should I plant?
                   2) do I need fertilizer?
                   3) can i get a manual from somewhere?

                   ......I don't know where to even begin!!!!

                   Please Help!!!

                   Truly yours,

                   Eddie Walker

                   P.S. What is the yeild from one plant?


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 15:27:21 6/17/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Flick - did your setup and your friend's have similar distances to intake and exhaust? I know those smaller fans crap
                   out quickly if they have to push the air very far. Another possibility is that your fresh air sources are different temps.

                   That aside, the best advice I can offer is to bag the CO2 and just move lots of air. If your bud lives in a city, he will get
                   lots of CO2 anyway. My gut feeling is that your bud will be no better off loosing the benefit of the suncircle to gain the
                   benefit of CO2 with aircooled hoods. Now suntwist, that will let you have your cake and eat it as well, haha. Just my 2

                   Nugget - I had a good feeling where you were coming, that's why I didn't delete :) Just wanterd to direct the responces
                   to you a bit. Your comments are interesting. We have some New Zealand friends that surf these waters that have the
                   complete opposite experiences down under. All they can find is sativas and had some of us mail out indica seeds to
                   them. Go figure!

                   I hope others join in because I won't be able to do your question justice. If you are well connected with the local
                   genetics and clones that have been around for several years, you may find it hard to find seedstock that will perform
                   better than what you have. One reason is that those local special clones have gone though years of selection and are
                   basically the best of the best (playing with your handle, hehe). For example, I have a special california orange clone,
                   thanks to many here, that goes back a decade or two. There are a few quality seed sources for cali-o that will give you
                   a quality representation of the strain but you could probably grow out about a hundred of them and not find something
                   as nice as this special clone. Purchase seeds if you want a change of pace or want to play around with some
                   breeding. Or to just learn what the different strains are really like.

                   As for interpreting the yield info quoted on the descriptions, just take them as a general guideline. I use them to
                   compare between strains of the same brand but not between brands since different breeders seem to use different
                   standards. The same seedstock could yield 1/2 ounce or a pound depending on your growing skill and how, when, and
                   where you are growing it, if you know what I mean :)

                   As for incorporating sativa influences into your lineup, I have little first hand experience, but Emery is fond of his
                   hawaiian sativa, Soul his C99, dutch their haze and haze crosses. Then there is The Doc's wild sativas, and DJ Short's
                   finest. Going to Cannabis.com's Seedbanks page is the best place to get detailed info on any of these or use
                   Weedbase's excellent search engine. There is more than a year of excellent info there and easy to access.


                   TOPIC - Forgot to state the problem
                   DATE - 15:15:13 6/17/99
                   FROM - flick
                   Just re-read my post and noticed I didn't even state the problem... Just in case someone didn't figure it out.

                   The problem is the vent fans draw the CO2 out too fast.

                   stay free

                   PS Thanks for the info Trelaway--he is using hydro and the ballast for the 1k is out of the cube...I'm pretty sure it's out
                   of the room as well. Same thing with the 4 x which isn't a plastic cube but a closet.

                   I had another question too--that closet is a cedar closet. Anyone think that could affect the plants?


                   TOPIC - heat in boxes
                   DATE - 14:39:48 6/17/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   A friend uses a 4x4x4 foot box with a 1k sodium (ballast outside the box). With 90 cfm exhaust he was able to get it
                   down to 90F at the top of the box but we had problems getting it even there.

                   Two signifigant changes allowed him to get it down to 90f. One was increasing the air movement in/out of the room the
                   box was contained within.

                   The second is he swiched to hydro tables from potted dirt. His reasoning is that the dirt volume was storing heat within
                   the box. Now he has the plants, some small rockwool blocks and a plastic drain table. The nutrient is piped up from
                   under the box--standard flood/drain.


                   TOPIC - In and out
                   DATE - 14:03:41 6/17/99
                   FROM - Indy
                   Mr Soul, good to see ya pal. Your in and out mix. Which strains were in that?



                   TOPIC - Thanks Vic
                   DATE - 13:00:31 6/17/99
                   FROM - MrSoul

                   I appreciate your allowing me to post here. I'm keeping an eye out for anything interesting that I can add without going
                   too far. I will always try to remember I'm in YOUR house.

                   This is the place to see me on my "best behaviour" everyone!



                   TOPIC - Hey Capn and I need some help too.
                   DATE - 12:34:50 6/17/99
                   FROM - flick
                   Hey CapnÖDo a search over at the weedbase.. there are more than a few methods to mail clones and one of them
                   allows you to use a regular envelope to send them unrooted without smell worry's or big packages. That particular
                   method will be posted under Vic's name so you can just do an Author search.

                   Just thought I would help someone here out before I asked for a little help for a freind. He is doing me a favor and I can't
                   solve his problem so I thought maybe some of you have a solution I can't come up with.

                   Here is the situation..

                   The plants are housed in a plastic cube, a simple wood frame to covered by 6ml plastic. He got this from me and I
                   used this for a couple of reasons..if you would like them ask and I will answer but it's not important now. What is
                   important is that he can't control the heat like I was able to.

                   The one I used was 4.5' x 4.5' x 5.5'h. His is 5.5 x 5.5 x 6h. I was able to keep the temp between 90 and 95 with some
                   100 degree days when it was warmer, just a few though. 2 65cfm fans were used to vent and they were constantly on.

                   He is using a 1k and 400 watt light on a 2 arm suncircle. I used the same thing.

                   Even though the vent fans were on all the time I was still able to use tanked CO2 enrichment. The tent would be filled to
                   the desired level then gas was injected every 10 minutes to maintain the level. It worked great.

                   His problem is that to keep the temp at the desired level for CO2 useÖ90 to 95 he had to use bigger vent fans and is
                   currently using 1 500cfm duct fan. ( I used those quiet fans from radio shack, I think they are for computers.)

                   My first suggestion was to buy a timer with dual outlets that would turn the vent fan off when the CO2 was on and to
                   set the flow meter at the lowest setting possible. The problem is that the heat climbs too fast and the problem isn't

                   My second suggestion was to air condition the room but he can't do it because the garden would have to be taken
                   apart to get to the window enough to slip the AC in. This can't happen because they are in flower and under a screen.

                   My third suggestion was to not use the suncircle I gave him and switch to air cooled lights. He said it probably wouldn't
                   work because he has an air cooled that he made in a 4 x 4 space and still has to use a 265cfm duct fan for venting and
                   is having the same problem with CO2 enrichment in that space as well. (a thermostat on the vent fan would probably
                   work in that grow though)

                   I think it will work but he still would like to avoid it since it means a trip to the grow store and a few bucks out the

                   My fourth suggestion----was that he should post his questions--his suggestion was that I go screw myself (different
                   word though;-) He won't post to the net anywhere so I'm doing it for him.

                   Any thoughts and ideas will be appreciated..even if you think it is dumb since it could trigger a good idea.

                   Stay free



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 10:42:13 6/17/99
                   FROM - Uncle Chooie
                   Peaceness, there's a big difference between the P.75 and the Cindy 99. 99's buds are heavier and there's much more
                   resin production. I posted about her performance outdoors at Weedbase, if you want to know how she does outdoors.
                   Link below.

                                                    Link: C-99 Outdoors Thread


                   TOPIC - After some variety.
                   DATE - 09:00:31 6/17/99
                   FROM - Nugget
                   Sorry Vic. Perhaps I'll rephrase the main thrust of my question. My interest is in introducing something markedly
                   different to what I've grown used to. I don't actually care where It's from (so long as I get it). Mostly the gear I find
                   available is heavy Indica varieties (typically described as "skunky") where potency means an almost knock out high. I
                   have laid my hands on some rather unusual (for me) gear which has the shortest flowering time and highest ratio of
                   flower to leaf/stem I've seen. It tends to grow short and squat with broad dark green leaves (purple closest to the buds)
                   and deep purple resin bracts. While the stone from this gear is still what I'd term heavy it's a lot different and more
                   enjoyable than most I've encountered. The novelty of this gear has led me to search for other unusual or distinct
                   varieties. The descriptions of some of the more sativa orientated strains with "energetic" or "up" highs sounds excellent
                   and I would love to try and grow some. However I have trouble relating the descriptions from the various seedbanks to
                   my own personal experience in terms of yield, quality/intensity of high, growth cycles, suitability to my growth
                   How much of this weed would you smoke in an average sitting and with what effect? Will the varieties offered provide
                   markedly different "highs" to those I've experienced? With say 600w in a 1.5m squared area and in a maximum of
                   twelve weeks (veg. and bloom) how much will one plant produce (surely much more than 100-150g) ? What strains or
                   type of strains would best suit my requirements? I would appreciate some advice as I'm unsure enough about buying
                   this gear from the internet anyway [bloody new fangled whiz bang big brother new world order type thingy that it is ;) ]


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 07:14:46 6/17/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Peaceness & Nugget - asking seedbank like questions is discouraged here. Nugget, giving a details description of
                   what you have there and looking for ideas of what it would be similar to is fine, but asking specific seedbank questions
                   isn't. Don't want to compete with cann.com :)

                   Mota - Federation and my romulan are somewhat different and have undergone different selective pressures. Asking
                   Emery at Can.com may give you a better responce as well. Of those willing to post, I think he is the most
                   knowledgeable on that one.


                   TOPIC - leaf curl
                   DATE - 06:12:41 6/17/99
                   FROM - diane
                   Thanx to all for their advice. I
                   believe my problem is too much fertilizer
                   for such young plants. I flushed them
                   and I'm hoping for a quick rebound.

                   In the future I'm going to try not to take
                   care of them so well - maybe they'll
                   be better off :)



                   TOPIC - Cinderella Story
                   DATE - 06:11:44 6/17/99
                   FROM - MrSoul

                   I'm being VERY careful not to "spam" here (respect to Vic):

                   1. P.75 is two generations below Cinderella 99
                   2. There is a major difference in the two generations.
                   3. The high of P.75 is quite mellow compared to C99.

                   There's not much more I can add, except that I don't know how she performs outdoors...but she matures so rapidly
                   indoors I'd GUESS it will finish early outdoors.


                   TOPIC - mites
                   DATE - 01:35:21 6/17/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   Thanx for the info on mites. I'll read thru it tomorrow. I also used shabang's search at weedbase, my first time, to read
                   up on mites--it's great.


                   TOPIC - romulan 7 of 9
                   DATE - 00:43:42 6/17/99
                   FROM - mota20
                   vic. I have heard that once in a while one of the romulan females comes out alot better then the rest? someone called
                   them 7 of 9 I have 6 females going into 4 weeks of 12/12 and one of them is already forming a cola 16in. long and is so
                   sticky you almost have to force your finger off of it. Could this be a 7 of 9 ? Also how long should i let it go the full 8 to
                   9 weeks? thanks in advance for any advice. peace mota20


                   TOPIC - leaf curl/buying seeds
                   DATE - 23:24:00 6/16/99
                   FROM - Peaceness
                   diane, it sounds as if you are fertilizing and watering way too much.You may want to purchase a moisture meter.
                   Moisture meters are very accurate. they work by inserting a probe into the soil and giving you a reading of the moisture
                   level deep in the soil. You cant go wrong. besides, even though the top few inches of the soil may be dry, lower in the
                   soil may be very moist. As far as the fish emulsion, you may want to switch to high nitrogen seabird guano. this stuff is
                   MAGIC!!!! the drawback is that the tea smells like sewage!! I buy a brand from down to earth.-Peaceness
                   p.s. all: i have decided to purchase some seeds for next fall as well as indoor. any recommendations? been hearing A
                   LOT about cinderella 99. is it hype or is it the BOMB as everyone says. i have grown out p.75 and various crosses of it.
                   i guess p.75 is 2 "cubes" away from C99. has anyone grown/smoked the 2, and is there much difference between
                   them? Im not sure that i wold want to waste $150 on a strain that i may already have. Also planning to buy some
                   low/no smelling outdoor strains, any suggestions. Also does anyone have any experience with the Sage x Big Sur
                   Hollyweed that marc emery sells?


                   TOPIC - Seed purchases and my setup.
                   DATE - 23:22:48 6/16/99
                   FROM - Nugget
                   I'm a newbie as far as the whole internet seed thing is concerned but the names, pictures, descriptions and reputations
                   of these varities has snared my interest .
                   I intend to buy a selection from Heaven's Stairway due to their range and reputation. However I'm having trouble
                   comparing the strains offered to those with which I'm already familiar (most of which don't have designer
                   trademarks/names). You see where I'm from (South Australia) the law regarding MJ states that three plants is OK for
                   personal consumption [$130 fine no record, like a speeding fine :) ] and so we grow 3 LARGE indoors (1 - 2 Lbs). Using
                   3 (sometime more) 600w hps (luca600 globes) 50L pots, coconut fibre/clay balls, dutch master nutrient (2200 ppm)
                   (run to waste) and CO2 enrichment in a smallish chamber allows for about 1&1/2 pounds from each plant with a 2-3
                   week vegetative and 5-7 week bloom cycle. The strains I have look a lot like the super skunk #1 and purple star X
                   varieties I have seen. The potency is extremely high although the super skunk has an almost "anaesthetic for the mind"
                   high (I've seen a "twice- a- year weed smoker fall down green and unable to move after 1 desert bong).
                   Would I get a significantly better quantity/quality from the seeds offered?
                   What I don't understand is how some varieties like big bud, which claims high yield only report a 150gm crop while
                   others can claim up to 800gms and others rate per m2 or 1000w light? With what sort of setup are the indoor plants
                   offered acheiving their 6 week bloom cycle. Also I would like anyones opinion on the largest producing, quickest
                   blooming pure sativa available [in purple would be nice :) ]
                   and the strain (sativa, inidica or cross) with the most powerful energising high (something rare over here).
                   Bong oN (The Nugget)


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 22:28:48 6/16/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   trounce = safer's soap/pyrethrum mix


                   TOPIC - the trelaway trounce, leaf curl
                   DATE - 21:37:00 6/16/99
                   FROM - 180
                   trelaway, am i lost in the ozone, or is trounce pyrethrin? it's been awhile since i read the label on that one (lazy
                   wanders in the hardware store), but i think it is, or permethrin, or another similar.

                   with pyrethrin, the residual toxicity can vary, but it's generally fairly safe in use. the downside is phytotoxicity; it's hard
                   on the plants, can do lots of damage. also not entirely effective against mites (not an ovicide, so even with weekly
                   sprayings, if the ambient temp is high enough the little bastards can reproduce as fast as you eradicate them, thusly
                   extending your spraying program to eternity ;-)). on the plus side, it does kill larval and adult mites, and the way you
                   are using it (quick rinse) should help protect the plants from its toxic effects.
                   other methods like soap, hort. oil, and neem oil are equally effective, and available, but they all are "controls", rather
                   than "solutions". as pi says below, avid (abamectin) is a solution. it's also fairly safe in use, degrades rapidly, has low
                   toxicity to most non-pests (some exceptions though, all the info is available online). with judicious use and other
                   controls in place, i expect 2oz could last me something like TEN years! ten years of NO MITES, yowee!

                   leaf curl, hehehe, the books say it's over-watering or over-fert, but weed does this all the time and often for no apparent
                   reason. for this reason, treat it as one indicator of many, and look for other symptoms or signs. once you get to know
                   your plants they will let you know if there's a problem :-)


                   TOPIC - trelaway / avid and neem oil
                   DATE - 17:10:17 6/16/99
                   FROM - pi
                   trelaway.... ya you did give me cause for concern and reminded me of the mean and jelous people out there.

                   avid... can be gotten @ www.african-violets.com in small bottles for about $20 for 2 oz of 1/2 stength i beleive.
                   correction full strength dosage is 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon not 12.

                   neem oil works to but it is hell on the plants. high concentrated neem oil product (90%+) is called Rose Defense or
                   Fruit, Nut and Veg spray by Green Light @ Home Depot. i beleive they are the same ingredients but you pay more for
                   the Rose name on the bottle so get the FNV spray. i tried other neem products that did little to the plants and worked
                   OK but the concentration of neem oil was less than 10%.



                   TOPIC - mites and sq rt pi
                   DATE - 16:50:03 6/16/99
                   FROM - pi
                   re: mites.... i have had borg cities all over my grow room and tried many methods of irradication... most of which
                   damage the plant, most are labor intensive and the ones i tried did not completely kill them.

                   i used avid on my grow, carpet and all, and 2 months later NO MITES NO MITES NO MITES NO MITES and no
                   damage to the plants. Avid is not cheap @ $280 per qt but it sure is effective and a little goes a long way.
                   recommended dossage is 1/4-12 tspn NOT tablespoon per gallon. i had 2 fluid oz i think, gave away .5 oz and still have
                   .75 oz left.

                   from my perspective Avid is the only way to go.

                   sq rt pi = 1.77245385091...--> oo


                   TOPIC - me being a know-it-all & pi and Trounce (mites)
                   DATE - 15:50:56 6/16/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   oops, I didn't read down far enuf, just the top three before entering the post below. I wouldn't use lime if yer trying to
                   lower the ph.

                   Pi - just read thru the last batch of posts. Sorry if you took my comment on trolls personally. It was not directed at you,
                   not even slightly, but at the can com seedbank trolls who thrive on trashing people.

                   Trounce - for those who are on a maintenance program to control mites, how wet to the plants need to be and how long
                   should I leave it on before washing it off. At present, weekly, I move all the veg plants into the bathtub, douse them with
                   trounce, let them sit an hour before washing them off with distilled water. It's working on the mite issue but seems a
                   nasty thing to put the plant thru every week.



                   TOPIC - Leaf Curl
                   DATE - 15:45:56 6/16/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   Diane, What are your temps going to? I've seen tyhe upper new growth curl under because of high temps during the
                   dark cycle. If you're a couple weeks into flower, the
                   lower fan leaves will curl and yellow . This is natural.
                   Just remove them to let in more light.


                   TOPIC - .......
                   DATE - 15:35:23 6/16/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   diane-you're likely over-watering and over ferting. I'd only water when the pot gets light or the leaves droop and only fert
                   if the plant needs it, like the oldest leaves are starting to fade.

                   You could just scratch a tablespoon of lime into the top of the soil, using a fork down about a centimetre (3/8"), when it
                   next dries. Then when you water it'll just wash thru; it's a pretty fine powder.


                   TOPIC - re: Romberry report - Pi
                   DATE - 12:54:48 6/16/99
                   FROM - KGB
                   Hey Pi -

                   What's yer square root? ;-) Just kidding. Thanks for the
                   Romberry report. It was particularly helpful as I've just
                   received my beans from HS. Some look kinda immature, but
                   I'll take heart at what you said about their vigor. Keep us
                   updated please,



                   TOPIC - Xenon lights
                   DATE - 08:51:46 6/16/99
                   FROM - Rons
                   Xenon gas lighting has been around for a long time in the form of flash units and strobe lighting. The Philips head lights
                   seem to be available only in Europe. No mention of them at the Philips N. American site. The link below is for
                   conversion kits that you can get for the modest sum of $850 to $1,000 each!!!! I can visualize a killer 5 lamp, 250 watt
                   scrog setup for about $4,500. Hmmmm. Maybe when electric costs get to $.50 per KWH.

                   I remember reading either Ed R. or Jorge C.'s book mentioning the possibility of using strobe lighting. Anyone ever try

                                                     Link: Xenon head lights


                   TOPIC - leaf curl
                   DATE - 08:45:20 6/16/99
                   FROM - diane
                   Vic - I'm using 5-2-2 (f.e.)@ 1tsp/gal...
                   every sixth day (they are watered every
                   third day to saturation, then excess is
                   removed)(plants started w/diluted f.e. for
                   first two waterings b/4 bringing it up)

                   What is a quick fix acidifyer to lower
                   ph until I can transplant into a mix w/lime?



                   TOPIC - Speaking of Leaf Curl....
                   DATE - 08:29:30 6/16/99
                   FROM - Bud Bundy
                   I haven't fertilized the rom surprises in over a month, and all of the sudden, some of the girl's leaves are starting to curl
                   under, some more severely than others, some not at all... It seems the more sativa dominant they are, the more curl.
                   The mostly indica varieties dont seem to be affected. A month ago, they were placed in 50% Sunshine mix, 25 perl 25
                   verm, and I added two cups of 3-15-7 organic fertilizer with a 2 cups of dolomite lime (sunshine has sphagnum moss)
                   per 36 gallons soil. They are watered twice a week, which seems to suit them fine. Why would they all of the sudden
                   start to curl under if I havent applied any more fertilizer? Everything i've read says that curling under is from over
                   fertilizing....I dont know the ph...could the ph being too low or high cause this? Temps are between 70-83 degrees, they
                   are in 3x3.5 space under 430 HPS (5000 Lumens/sqft)


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 07:57:34 6/16/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Diane - your pH may be a bit high, might want to try a soil acidifier. It's strange though because I've always found the
                   fish ferts to be acidic ( I use Alaska brand). I've always found curled leaves to be a nutrient imbalance, not a N
                   deficiency. Fish ferts tend to be well balanced for veg growth so this brings me back to the high pH.

                   What strength is your fish solution anyway? If using every second feeding, you may want a fairly dilute solution (half
                   strength or less).

                   Once the pH condition is fixed, if the plants don't respond you may want to flush your medium. Or do both at same


                   TOPIC - yellow/upper leaf curl
                   DATE - 07:17:22 6/16/99
                   FROM - diane
                   Out of 8 - 3wk old plants grown in 6" pots
                   w/soil+verm.+perl...I have 2 that have some
                   upper leaf curl and each has a bottom leaf
                   turning very yellow. I've been watering w/
                   fish emulsion 5-1-1 every other time. My book
                   says not enough N (and possibly Mg?). Should
                   I do anything at this point or wait since I'm
                   about to transplant at the end of this week?
                   Also, my PH is @7.5...


                   TOPIC - arrgh! vic?
                   DATE - 06:31:07 6/16/99
                   FROM - 180
                   VIC, do you have dr.a's email addy? if so, could you post it for me, or send it? TIA



                   TOPIC - Xenon Lighting - found some basic information
                   DATE - 05:59:28 6/16/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   I shouldn't have asked about Xenon before attempting to search the Web on my own.

                   The Phillips lighing company has a large website that includes a "search" function, so I checked it out.

                   The FAQ item I found claimed that Xenon lighting produces 2X the light of a halogen bulb, And uses 1/2 the power!
                   Evidently it is the "whitest" form of artificial light, and improves safety because of the way in which the eye percieves it.
                   ( Further digging might reveal how much heat they put out as compared to halogen bulbs. A very important

                   The headlight item that I checked ( the site loads a copy of Adobe Acrobat when you click on the results of a site
                   search ) indicated that it yielded 3,200 lumens, with a color temp. of 4,100 K.

                   Sounds pretty good so far.

                   Perhaps someone with greater electronic expertice should do a little more research and report back.

                   They don't appear to need a lot of power, since these were intended to be used as auto headlights. There is probably
                   some little transformer or form of ballast that takes a standard auto 12 volts and steps it up. The bulb that came up in
                   the search pulled, as I recall, 43 watts.

                   Since these appeared to be just bare bulbs, as opposed to sealed-beam headlight units, they could probably be easily
                   adapted to different reflectors. If it turns out that they are more readibly availble in sealed-beam form at auto parts
                   chains, a seperate reflector might not be needed, and since they are so narrowly focused, there would be very little
                   light spill off the targeted area when used indoors.


                                                  Link: Phillips Lighting home page


                   TOPIC - Thanks Oldtimer ... & a lighting query...
                   DATE - 21:24:33 6/15/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   The liquid solution bit is one that I'd use late in the season. The routine for the past several years has been to add
                   approx. 10-15% manure to my bucket mix every year & this usually matches the number of buckets that have become
                   brittle and have to be replaced. The manure is old, broken down, with remnants of straw, and has been under a roof in a
                   stockyard for many years.

                   Started out with topsoil and humus and other stuff years ago, but haven't added much else but gypsum, limestone, and
                   manure using the "eyeball method". Stuff always seemed to grow well.
                   It's only recently that I've started to research on-line to see if the garden could be improved.

                   Took my first ever ph reading
                   recently, and it came in at 6.5.
                   Just fine for the tomatos, but the peppers and salad stuff needed sweeter soil so I tossed some crushed limestone on
                   them and washed it in with watering.

                   Some of it this organic bit is certainly applicable to growing herb, but I'm not able to take that step right now.

                   Besides, almost all of the recipes I've read out here for "soil" herb growing are quite different from my veggie stuff. Much
                   looser, full of "Pro-Mix" and requiring that virtually All the nutrition be supplied from the outside.

                   I am making use of a couple of tricks I learned in the online
                   herb spaces. Started using a 5 gal. bucket of water with a pumpconstantly bubbling with an aquarium stone so I can
                   get O2 and CO2 to the plants then I water them.

                   Just out of curiosity ( so to speak ) I've been reading about a new high-end auto headlight called a "Xenon" bulb.
                   Supposed to be very bright and very white. Does anyone know how many lumens they put out and what the color temp.
                   is? There could be a significant power savings if you could grow with lights that draw all of 12 volts! How long they last
                   would be an important parameter to explore, but they probably are built to take some bumps.

                   I figure that Any alternative to those huge MH & HPS lamps should be explored, just on general principles. : )


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 06:37:20 6/15/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Pi - I musta confused ya, haha. I appreciated your post, it kinda put the hype in it's perspective and gave some reality
                   to people's expectations. I would much rather just let it all hang out, haha.

                   Anyway, to correct our confusion, you got beens from the first batch and trelaway got beens from the second batch.
                   Without a doubt both batches are from the same romulan mom (I only have one romulan "Joe referred to it as the
                   Original" haha). I assumed they both were from the same blueberry dad but there have been some subtle differences in
                   the description of romberry between the two batches. I've been considering the possibility that I got the blueberry males
                   mixed up on the second batch, I have several laying around. With blueberry being so true breeding this normally
                   wouldn't be a problem but blueberry is known to carry the hermie gene in it's back pocket so you need to select
                   parents that don't pass on this gene. Anyway, since we brought all this into the open, I've been given feedback from
                   several growers and my fears have been put to rest. Webfish's experience (0 herms) appears to be the norm, having a
                   herm pop up is common but not frequesnt. And getting multiple herms is rare, treleway being only reported case.


                   TOPIC - foot-in-mouthitis
                   DATE - 04:43:55 6/15/99
                   FROM - pi
                   Vic, i do not go to but maybe 3 sites anymore and Cannkids is not one of them, so i am blissfully ignorant of the latest
                   in spamming,trolling and flaming.

                   my post on the romberry was not intended to produce flames or insult you in any way my friend. i was just trying to
                   give you feedback. SORRY.

                   all...vic and i chatted about the origination of the genes i got and we are sure that they are from another romberry mom
                   that is not the current seed mom. i got them before he went public.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 03:46:55 6/15/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Curious George sorry about about going back to your Q about organic teas so late but I've been busy! I come from the
                   uk and have been growing my fruit, veggies and puff organically for 35 years or so. I've posted most of this before but it
                   is worth repeating. My concept of growing organically is that the soil or growing compost is a living medium with
                   reserves of organic matter which is slowly break down to humus. This environment supports the largest diversity of
                   micro organisms which in turn live by feeding off their favourite mineral / organic material, in turn dying in their billions
                   every minuet releasing the absorbed nutrients. This tends to be self balancing ie if the plants in your soil aren't taking
                   say 50% of the released phosphorus, the bacteria / fungi will recycle the free water soluble nutrients keeping them in
                   the system and reducing the breakdown from the raw ingredients. So I try and make my growing compost and garden
                   soil rich minerals and base nutrient ingredients + plenty of organic matter to supply the humus cycle and a some ready
                   to use nutrients. I try to avoid liquid feeding where possible but have to resort to a little when growing puff indoors but
                   only if i see a deficiency.

                   Bone meal or bone flower wont release much P for liquid feeding something like .01% you would be far better with a
                   high P bat guano which should have the soluble % of P on the analysis. If you have an organic chocolate processor
                   your side of the pond the remains of the cocoa beans after extracting the chocolate have 20% soluble K + some locked
                   in the grains, released by bacteria later if mixed in the soil. So with dried blood [ I assume this is blood meal ] usually
                   12 to 15% N it is easy to make a fairly accurate NPK liquid feed. For solanums and puff I would tend to add a little
                   magnesium sulphate. I wouldn't use Superthrive in a feed to something I was going to eat or smoke as it has
                   1-Naphthyl acetic acid in it. We have quite a few organic standard liquid feeds and fish fertilisers available here with
                   about every NPK balance you could want, they are about half to a quarter the price of Earth Juice and IMHO better. I
                   use so little it is easer for me to buy than mix my own. In the past our co-op has done 50 / 50% comparative tests with
                   EJ cat and later Superthrive to just water and the difference in both cases was virtually nothing between 24 plants with
                   additive right through to 24 plants water only right through. We also did the same thing with B-cuzz in this case the
                   additive side had a lighter yield and the plants didn't look as healthy.

                   Dried sewerage sludge, ask for a complete analysis including metal contamination if clean it makes a good top
                   dressing for soil. For making compost stay with worm castings it is nearly all humus, nutrient rich and has more
                   friendly microbes than EJ cat has ever seen. If you think worm castings are expensive set up your own worm farm then
                   you control what goes in and comes out and costs nothing. These are just my own opinions and hope they help a little!

                   Your reply to the troll made my day I think I'm going to archive it even though I didn't see the troll post haha.

                   Budm have you got pgp sorted yet? Could you drop me a line I cant keep track of where you are coming from, no reply
                   from the last two.

                   All the best Ot1


                   TOPIC - hermies
                   DATE - 21:44:18 6/14/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   Vic--I've thought about this a bit but didn't talk about it much cause I didn't want to fan troll fire at can com.

                   I think the herms were my fault. the blues not going herm in the same grow was the confusing aspect to this problem,
                   the inclination being it couldn't be the grow if the more sensitive plants stayed mono-gender, however; I bought a new
                   light half way thru veg -- I went from a tired 400mh to a brand new 600hps.

                   You may recall me saying that the roms drooped badly for a week under the new light and recovered slowly while the
                   blues came to life under it. For perspective I went from ~ 1750 lumens/sqft to 4000. I think introducing the light slower
                   (from a greater height and then lowering it) would have acclimated the roms. In short, I think I just shocked the shit out
                   of them.

                   So, that's my thought on the Rom going herm in trel's grow.

                   btw--I got them early dec/98. And...sure, you can smoke me up anytime, ha.



                   TOPIC - Cuttingsin the mail
                   DATE - 19:26:27 6/14/99
                   FROM - Capn
                   Of topic but is there a good easy method of sending live cuttings in the mail? Any help is appreciated. Please e-mail
                   me. Sorry for the off topic post but need some advice from you guys. This seems like the most cannabis knowledgable
                   place on the net.



                   TOPIC - romberry
                   DATE - 18:08:06 6/14/99
                   FROM - webfish
                   Hermies what hermies I grew out 93 romberry, romberryF2, and romberry xbig bud ,AK47, WW and .75 not one herm,
                   a few twisters, but no herms...Its a great plant and breeder with its skunky berry flavor it is very dominant in its
                   crosses( all crosses were with romberry male)they all had traces of their mothers but most were at least 60% romberry

                   Vic they sell misters that you hook to a gardenhose they say they reduce the temp by 15 to 20 degrees fery fine mist
                   about 25 dollars...Wallmart.


                   TOPIC - fogging
                   DATE - 15:34:15 6/14/99
                   FROM - loop
                   Vic-just found an article on fogging in the Sept/Oct 98 issue of Practical Hydroponics and Greenhouse. A bit on the
                   light side it seems informative. They suggested pumps at 800 psi to get 5-10 micron droplets. Said it can drop
                   greenhouse temps 15 degreeís with very little change to RH. Maybe for a small set up you could run an air compressor
                   to atomize or use a small pressure washer.


                   TOPIC - more
                   DATE - 14:38:52 6/14/99
                   FROM - pi
                   i also do not baby my plants. they will all experience a wilt at sometime amd my room has been running hotter than
                   normal as i lost a wall a/c unit.

                   as of sat, i have a new 15000 btu a/c unit and will keep temp closer to 75



                   TOPIC - Vic
                   DATE - 14:32:47 6/14/99
                   FROM - pi
                   Vic, i q'd you more info.

                   one other thing i forgot 2 mention is that the hermie was not only large but the internode spacing was similar to haze
                   and was 2-3 times as long as the internode from the shorter plants. not sure if there will be amymore hermies but i will
                   try to keep you informed. are there other characteristics that would be helpful in id'ing a herm phenotype????????

                   glad to help



                   TOPIC - stuff
                   DATE - 14:17:09 6/14/99
                   FROM - loop
                   Thunderheart- thanks for the info. Figured it should be ok but what I didnít want to have is the aluminum break down
                   and poison my res. Stainless would be the way to go but $$$$. My first thought was to use coiled copper tube but I
                   remember reading in HT (known for its accurate info ;-)) that you could give your plants copper poisoning. The water
                   lines into my place are all copper, but maybe it different with an acidic recycling solution. Anyone?

                   Chronic man- Sorry to hear about your water-cooled experience (worked fine except the cooling part). I donít think it
                   would add that much to your water bill, mine just dribbles through although my water source is quite cold. Iíll measure
                   the flow when I get a chance. Iíve changed the quick release water lines to the Gardena (sp?) brand which are a higher
                   quality. I do move the lights so I clamped the hose to the top of my reflector to reduce strain at the joint. So far so good
                   but its only been days. Hope to get the ladies under soon.

                   180- thanks for the kind words. After I wrote that I was hoping it didnít come across as a ìwonder of meî thing. Just
                   trying to say thereís lots of ways of obtaining a goal. OT1 and Vic are THE high yield champs. People should pick
                   methods that match their space, lights, goals and personalities.
                   The stadium thing really is a great set-up. It allows you to put fans on the floor and blow up through the plants. Keeps
                   the co2 off the floor and really allows you to pack them in.

                   RE hermies: It just me or does it all ways seem that the very best looking plant is the one most likely to go herm?
                   Maybe that why it stays in the gene pool when most of us breed for vigor.

                   Vic- I also got one full-blown herm out of my romberry beans for HS (7 females, 2 males one herm).
                   That said I also got one from the AK, one out of the romulan and 2 from the rom/big. They were all brought up in a very
                   stressed environment. I grew the mothers; them hacked them to pieces, then put them in with the males under 12/12 in
                   a high ozone environment so I figure I did pretty well.



                   TOPIC - Romberry Surprise Pics
                   DATE - 11:57:49 6/14/99
                   FROM - Bud Bundy
                   Some Rom Surprise pics have been posted over at the cann.com binaries.



                   TOPIC - pi
                   DATE - 10:39:46 6/14/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   hey how did you let that Bi get past your guards? That sucks bud. When growing something new I always watch for
                   those confused plants. Say, can you remember where, when and how you got the seeds? Treleway - I know the how
                   and where, just not the when.

                   As a result of my meeting with Romulan Joe, I learned that one of my "romulan"'s sisters gives off a few hermie
                   offspring while the sister herself is stable. We both agreed that blueberry was susceptable to turning hermie when
                   stresses. The it seems that the deck was stacked against romberry in the hermie department and that we have been
                   lucky with how clean they have been.

                   I've done two batches of romberry to date and did extensive growouts on the first batch but not so much on the second
                   batch. On the first batch, out of over 200 plants, I had 1 full blown hermie and six speudo hermies. These were
                   explained in detail in the past. Not bad results but definately room for improvement. Having a hermie pop up here and
                   there is something I expected but trelaway's results has caused some concern. I'm worried that my blueberry males
                   got screwed up and a different one was used on the second batch. That is the only thing I can think of that could be
                   different between the two batches.

                   Pi - thanks for the feedback. I need the bad news as much as the good news to move forward.

                   Trelaway - In my books I still owe you bud.



                   TOPIC - curious
                   DATE - 09:23:08 6/14/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   I'm sorry if you were offended by my deletions. I have no problem excercising censorship here. I think most long time
                   visitors will say it has been fair and as unpolitical as possible. If you look around the net you will find the best sites are
                   the one that have the most censorship. It's sad but a fact of life here. There was a previous post by someone pointing
                   out that this was a public board. I would like to correct this. Sure it is open to the public but it isn't own by the public. It
                   is paid for and maintained by me. If it makes it easier to understand, think of this as my home. It's not too much to
                   understand someone asking another to leave their house if their comments/actions are unwelcome.

                   Your followup post is off topic but excellent. I will leave it up but if it attracts much more attention, I will just delete the


                   TOPIC - Vic, why edit out that post?
                   DATE - 08:37:27 6/14/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   I suppose leaving that claimed DEA thing up might be bad for business, but it removes all context from what I posted
                   in response. ( If that one stays up.)

                   The whole thing is so weird ... doesn't surprise me so much as dismay me.

                   Has this kind of crap been going on regularly? Having just found this part of the Web recently, I'm clueless about prior
                   history of these sites.

                   The best policy is probably the old saw : " Believe nothing that you read or hear, and half of what you see."



                   TOPIC - Dear "Ted " -
                   DATE - 07:59:19 6/14/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   In the first place, if you actually are an on-duty officer of some sort or another, any unannounced visit to our home will
                   find a wonderful organic garden full of veggies but no cannabis at all. Sorry. You can forget about "adopting the seizure"
                   or other draconian measures.

                   Secondly, I understand that you probably are under a lot of stress, and that like all members of your profession you're
                   running a higher risk of divorce, depression, and suicide. It can't be an easy job enforcing these tight-ass puritan laws,
                   and having to work with slimy snitches every day must make coming to work even more of a chore.

                   Like any other worker, you try to get by with the easiest, most risk free, level of performance that will still keep the
                   boss off your ass. We both know that compared to other aspects of your work, busting and/or harrassing home
                   growers is as easy as it ever gets. ( When was the last time you asked the boss for a Heroin assignment?)

                   Postings messages like you did probably relieves some of the stress, and gives you an outlet for your frustrations.
                   Fine, go for it. But please drop the implicit or implied threats.

                   If you'd like to begin a dialogue on the subject, you're probably welcome to post here. ( But it's not my call.)

                   We both know by now that it's absolutely impossible to stop or even put a crimp in the pot trade, ( or any other drug for
                   that matter ), and that even your very best efforts are doomed to failure. That can't be good for your self-esteem.

                   You're bosses have chosen to reject science in favor of a policy of pure superstition that results in a vast waste of
                   limited resources on what is essentially a non-problem. You are wasting the public money on a Quixotic crusade that
                   flies in the face of science in a manner that's strangely reminiscent of the Inquisition

                   Aren't you embarassed by the overwhelming weight of scientific evidence that makes shreds of the "official" party line
                   on cannabis?

                   Although the gene pool could use a little chlorine from time to time, allowing free access to medication and intoxicants
                   probably isn't the way to go. There is no doubt that there is some good, neccessary, work that needs to be done by the
                   DEA. However, this ignorant crusade against cannibis is certainly not one of them.

                   The Declaration of Independence is our guide. We have been endowed by the Creator with the right to Life, Liberty,
                   AND the pursuit of happiness.

                   Do you believe otherwise?


                   TOPIC - vic, swimmer, george, loop
                   DATE - 07:25:01 6/14/99
                   FROM - 180
                   vic, looks like the assholes arrive, see (and delete) post by "DEA" below.
                   may all trolls twist in the wind!

                   swimmer, your basic, newbie information can be found at www.weedbase.com. it's a great source for "beginner" Q & A,
                   and they have a FAQ (frequently asked questions) that will probably cover all your Q's.

                   curious george, i agree with that comment about spookbusters being "jibby". the character assassination and circular
                   logic of that guy's rants have very little basis in reality.
                   of course, he will probably now post something to the effect that "180 is greenman, the DEA-spam loser," or something
                   like that, hehehe.
                   actually it's sad, because there are probably psychotropic medications that could help this person past their
                   unreasoning paranoia....

                   loop, congrats on the excellent yield. it seems that the highest yielding gardens (sqft, watt) are those that are "shaped"
                   like yours, using closely packed plants in (relatively) smaller containers; in other words, "enhanced" SOG setups.
                   from his posts i gather that Oldtimer1 uses a similar system. i once joked that his setup allows NO lumens to escape
                   the garden (so it would be DARK in the grow until you parted the wall of plants around the lamps ;-)). it makes sense
                   that you would get kickass yield from this sort of arrangement, as it catches most of the light before it can reach the
                   walls and reflect back (at lower intensity). unfortunately, given the size and shape of my grow, and the size of plants i
                   like to grow, this won't work for me. i used to be closer to SOG, but it wasn't yielding the size and density of cola that i
                   want (small plants in small containers yield [comparatively] small colas). but, that said, congrats again on the yield,
                   you are obviously no slouch :-)

                   laughing at the dea...


                   TOPIC - romberry report
                   DATE - 04:56:59 6/14/99
                   FROM - pi
                   started 12 seeds

                   -most vigoruos seeds i have EVER germed .... hours not days
                   -they look like immature seeds i would not pick. you were right Vic... surprised the hell out of me.
                   -5 males, 6 females and one big bad hermie that seeded some of my garden at 2 weeks under 1212.(((((

                   the herm seemed to be of a diff phenotype than the other females(i hope). it was the biggest and prettiest plant and
                   had both male and female parts in abundance. i have another rom that looks to be the same phenotype and bears



                   TOPIC - water-cooled lights...
                   DATE - 00:56:26 6/14/99
                   FROM - chronic man
                   My experience with them wasn't a good one. I had problems cooling them. I think if I could've used city water, it would
                   have worked well, but the cost of water here in Seattle is a little high. If I was paying the bill, it might have been okay,
                   but my landlord pays it. Other than the cooling problem, I think they are great. One thing though,
                   I'm thinking that they might not be all that great on a sun
                   circle. Whenever the water connection at the light was moved, water tended to leak. I would think that if the lights were
                   constantly moved, they would leak. (But I may
                   be wrong). Vic, I'm waiting for my Romberry, and am eager to check it out. One thing, is Romberry a smelly strain?
                   Thats one thing that hasn't been a problem yet. I also ordered some shiskaberry, and after reading about the hermies
                   related to this strain, I'm hopin that wont be a problem with this strain. One thing I've noticed, it could be that
                   alot of the hermie related problems that people have had could have been due to early flowering. Anyways, cool
                   board...see ya



                   TOPIC - Thanks for the feedback ...
                   DATE - 22:05:58 6/13/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   Thanks ... whatever your nick is ... ( one figure, and it's too small for me to read ) ...

                   At any rate, I'll consider those dry ingredients in those proportions. The manure tea idea might work in a fairly small
                   bucket like that. I Know it will have a GodAwful Stink if precautions are not taken. Using one of the bio-active bacteria
                   products on the manure prior to the soak might make it manageable.
                   There's another little trick I'll be trying out in this regard soon, and will report the results in a while . ( Stench Reduction
                   has to be a priority if you use manure in a back yard container garden. )

                   By the way, if you don't have access to a farm or stockyard, and you're buying bags of "steer manure" at a garden
                   shop, might as well save yourself a hassle and get the composted variety. The stuff marked "steam dried" isn't broken
                   down at all and will both stink And burn plants.

                   If you can get to a stockyard or friendly neighborhood barn, go for the sheep or goat stuff if you can find it, and cow if
                   you can't, but for the love of all that is Holy, Don't get pig stuff! Even if it's old, completely dry, and broken down, as
                   Soon as it gets wet in your garden it will stink.



                   TOPIC - Loop, Vic, 180 et al
                   DATE - 16:28:15 6/13/99
                   FROM - Low yielder
                   What a great bunch of posts that have me started thinking in a number of new directions. In September will experiment
                   with scrog at 40 watts/ft, a stadium grow under~33 watts/ft and a bush grow at 40 watts/ft. Will veg for 3-4 weeks and
                   flower 8 with a variety of my own accidental creation ( mother is sativa x indica no namer from a Vancouver island
                   friend, father is a HempBC '96 mighty mite). Romberry and C99 are in the process of being obtained as I have to know
                   whether the hype is true or not).
                   As the navajo say, walk in beauty


                   TOPIC - Loop
                   DATE - 15:55:19 6/13/99
                   FROM - Thunderheart
                   I work with anodized aluminum and i don't think it would break down in your res. We soak our parts in both regular h2o
                   as well as DI water. No problems to speak of. The only issue is that this would be in the water permanently, but even
                   then i think your chances are good. Hope this helps.



                   TOPIC - organic
                   DATE - 13:27:32 6/13/99
                   FROM - t2
                   curious george the newer powdered fish on the market is a very economical source of n and quite soluble. the brand i've
                   been using is mermaid's fish powder. another company called foliagro makes a formulation for a foliar as well as one to
                   mix in your soil. also kelp meal mixed in your soil will provide k. i make a powdered fertilizer mix of 2 parts blood,3
                   parts bone,1 part kelp meal,and i part lime. i add a couple cups to each wheel barrow of soil mix which is basically
                   equal parts peat,perlite,and compost.

                   a really cheap tea that works can be made with a pillowcase, a shovelful of aged compost/manure and a 5 gallon
                   bucket of water. soak the pillowcase like a tea bag in the sun for a couple days then use enuff of this per gallon of fresh
                   water to give it an amber color


                   TOPIC - water cooled info
                   DATE - 11:51:05 6/13/99
                   FROM - loop
                   KGB- the lights are the argi-cool pro series (the plastic jacket ones). Still not sure if I made the right decision not
                   getting the classic (machined aluminum end pieces with glass jacket), only time will tell. The pro series were cheaper
                   ($320 can each for everything except bulb, ballast and hood). I believe you can buy it with the hood and standard HPS
                   for about $440. I presently have it set up in run to waste. Water supply in goes through a solenoid (connected to the
                   light cycle) then a dropping regulator (25 psi) then through a 5-micron water filter. The flow of water through is like a
                   slow drunken piss stream (almost dribbles). I get an added bonus by running part of the cold water supply through a
                   small rad that I put in my res. By adjusting the bypass I can control the res. temp. Seems to work well so far but it
                   only been a couple of days. Side note, does anyone know if anodized aluminum will break down in the res.?

                   Old bud: I donít have a five light sun twist, thatís only a pipe dream, but I suspect it would be perfect for about a 13í
                   round-ish grow. Iím in complete agreement with vic on multiple light being better than the sum of there parts as well as
                   mixed spectrum and moving them greatly increasing there effectiveness.
                   I made my own reflectors because of the kind of odd set up I have (stadium). The reflectors look upside down like a v
                   instead of a ^. I also mount a 400 MH and a 4í uv bulb on same reflector with a glass barrier to protect the plastic
                   jackets from the uv.

                   Regarding yields- 2 pounds per lamp of high quality bud is very do-able IMHO. I disagree with the need for large pots
                   and long veg times to do it (but you do have to pay the price of having more plants). My past favorite method was 5 litre
                   pails (about 9î round) filled with coco coir, perlite and an organic mix with two plants per pail. I once had a 5í1/2 x 5í x
                   51/2î grow box with 36 pails feed with 1/8î line with no drip emitters. The plants were set up in a V type arrangement
                   (stadium) with the steps only being about 6î.
                   1400 watts (1000 air-cooled) on a mover (only moved about 16î). From just rooted clones Iíd veg about 7-10 days. With
                   shisk I flower 42 days with co2. Yield = just under 3lbs of primo bud. So even I you count 160 watts used for clones,
                   that still over 2lb per 1000 per 52 days. Never did prefect that method but I believe itís possible to get at least 20%
                   more. I really donít care less if anyone believes this or not but this is a good method so take it for what its worth.

                   Jay- never had a bulb die on me but I believe the silver stuff is mercury used to fire the lamp. Its there in the brand new
                   bulbs, maybe you just didnít notice it?

                   grow safe



                   TOPIC - Liquid-Organic Recipe? Any Suggestions?
                   DATE - 11:09:13 6/13/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   If anyone has suggestions on how to avoid paying absurdly high prices for liquid organic solutions for use in soil or
                   hydro growing, let's hear about it.

                   ( At this point, buckets of tomatos, peppers, & salad greens, are the intended use, but such a combination should
                   apply to every organic garden.)

                   The organic "teas" I've attempted to use in the past all seem to have one major problem : significant percentages of the
                   stuff won't break down when water is added. It just won't disolve, and there's no telling how much is getting to the
                   plants with subsequent waterings if you just dump this residue on top. If you save and soak the remaining granuals and
                   use them again, there's no way to tell how much is left, and whether or not it's balanced.

                   So, the trick seems to be making as much of the available "goodies" go into solution as possible. I think that problem
                   has been licked ( and will reveal the process in a future post if it works out ). But what I need right now is a good
                   recipe. Blood meal, worm castings, or fish emulsion for Nitrogen ? Bone meal for Phospherous ? What should be used
                   for for Potash? Liquid Seaweed could probably supply the
                   micro-nutrients, or would soaking kelp meal be any better? Perhaps a small dash of Superthrive? What's your

                   If regular fish emulsion isn't the answer, I'd like to try a cheaper alternative to worm castings for Nitrogen and hope that
                   "Milorganite" will be the answer. There used to be warnings on the label about possible heavy metal content, but
                   evidently there is no problem on that score now.

                   For those of you who are unfamiliar with "Milorganite", it is a dry, granual, activated sewer sludge product, packaged
                   and sold by the City of Milwaukee Sewer District. It's available nationwide in 50 lb bags at a price that's a tiny fraction
                   of bat guano or worm castings.

                   There was a rave review in the July issue of High Times for a product called "Earth Juice Catalyst". Are there any other
                   products that supply microbes? Any way to make your own ? Has anyone had experience with this product?



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 09:57:52 6/13/99
                   FROM - jay
                   hello everybody,you to danbo,haha hows the camo man doin..?
                   has anybody had an uv ozone tube burn out on them..?i had one go yesterday,only 6 months old..one end is all
                   chromy,soldery colored on the inside of the tube...very weird...



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 08:08:57 6/13/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   OT - you are welcome to some space here. Good to see you again, was getting concerned that all was alright.


                   TOPIC - yields
                   DATE - 08:05:36 6/13/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   One of the big differences in numbers floating around is the number of lights used and the way the lights are used.
                   Marc and others are coming from the perspective of growing under a single stationary light. That works but it is far from

                   AFOAF was using a perpetual system so in a sense he was getting a crop every 8-10 weeks. What he's never factored
                   into his calculations is the 2000w he was using in the veg room. One of the reasons is that the size of the flower room
                   was always fluctuating between 5-8 lights roughly. Veg room was always 2000 (often used wastefully) So say he
                   reported 3.6 lbs per light and had 8 lights going in flower room. Then if you factor in the veg room watts, he was only
                   getting 3.6 x 8/10 = 2.88 pounds per light. Similarly 4 pounds could be calculated to be 3.2. But was only taking 8-10
                   weeks to do it.

                   If you want production, then using your flower room to veg is a waste of resources, IMO. One compromise is to do the
                   initial slower vegging in small pots (I like these little green 6" pots that hold about 2 cups soil) and grow them to about
                   8-12" in the clone box/bench. This can easily be done under flos and vastly improve efficiency of the HIDs, cutting veg
                   time under them to about 2-4 weeks depending on how big you want to get.

                   180 brought up another good point about bud quality. Yes the higher number take into account all bud top to bottom
                   worth taking the time to manicure (weight wise). Simply buds are manicured and then hung for a week until bone dry.
                   They are then bagged with a few fresh leaves thown in to soften the buds enough so they don't turn to shake. Once
                   softened, leaves are removed and bud thoroughly mixed. Then the buds are packed together. This causes the small
                   loose fluffy bottom buds to stick to the upper quality nugs. Sure this isn't the best product my friend could produce but
                   it still fetches a dollar higher than than average. It's not the best out there but in production, only a fool would want to
                   be moving the best. Lots of foolish pride in this industry and if a guy can get the best, he often brags about it.

                   When talking yields you are dealing with two very diverse groups. Your are therefore going to get very diverse answers.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 07:43:49 6/13/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   180 I don't know what I can say about yields per 1k of lighting you know what I have said about that in the past! I stand
                   by it! Most of my strains are sat heavy and may not produce what you would call primo bud, generally they are softer
                   in makeup than even p88, barring HD and HL which are dense and hard in structure. Anyhow I think you will have to
                   see them in the flesh to believe hehe.

                   For those of you that had access to my pictures pages, tripod have chucked me out for posting pick's of cannabis
                   sativa! I did a quick search for cannabis sites at tripod and came up with 2888 sites in the community with cannabis in
                   the url every thing from grow sites, med sites, picture sites to if you smoke it you will go mad! Why they had to pick on
                   my unlisted page apart from the fact they were good picks I haven't a clue. So I'm looking for a new space hopefully
                   one that is a little more secure.

                   All the best Ot1.


                   TOPIC - Light, Yield,...
                   DATE - 06:14:09 6/13/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   I concur with 180. Higher yields come with higher veg
                   times. That's why my plants produce so much OD's. From
                   Feb to Aug is 6 months. Add to that 10 weeks of flower time
                   and you have the big yielders. That's if you make it till the fat lady sings. Work out a formula that you can live with. We
                   all have our tricks.D


                   TOPIC - low yielder
                   DATE - 05:42:47 6/13/99
                   FROM - 180
                   this opinion may be met with some protestations, but i think marc emery was right about a "good grower" being able to
                   pull a pound from a 1k (given enough veg time, the right strain, large enough containers for good rootball, proper air circ
                   and temps, and proper nutrition), but i think the "2lbs for pros" is a bit off the mark. for one thing, you'd probably have to
                   do high-ppm hydro or have a LONG veg time to get the plants big enough: for another, i doubt that would be 2lbs of
                   really primo bud; maybe "commercial" quality, but that's a different story. it also depends on space, and how much
                   light your strain needs. perhaps in a good-sized space (6'x7' or equiv) with a low-light strain and a light-mover you could
                   get 2lbs...perhaps. i've been doing this for awhile and i just don't believe the claims some people make.



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 05:37:47 6/13/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   Peaceness , I hope to see you next year as well. Maybe
                   we can get Vic to this one. The Trip and Holyweed are the same puppy. I crossed it with Ruderallis to shorten it
                   some and give it mold resistance. It's now a medium bush with huge colas. I've had a 4 footer go over 2 lbs. It's still
                   susceptable to mold though and doesn't finish till week 2 of Oct. All the auto-flower has been bred out of it.

                   Vic , The romberry and blueberry are not sure how to handle the Cal sun. The leaves are pointing straight up .
                   Surrendering to the lumens? Don't fry me Sherriff! I don't
                   think they are used to the fert regimine I put the my OD's to. I'm doing some selective breeding with your Blueberry.
                   I'm crossing it with Black Domina, hence Danbo's Blackberry
                   Jam. I'm also making an F-2 of the AK-47 x Kong Ae raved about and mothered. I'm calling that one "Wilde Mountain
                   Honey", and it lives up to it's name. It flat outgrows
                   everything indoors. We'll see how she does OD this season.D


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 18:33:52 6/12/99
                   FROM - Low yielder
                   Pi, thanks for your info. Being the type of hobby it is, getting decent info on which to compare your own results is very
                   difficult. Found a thread on cannibis.com where Marc emery states 1 lb per 1kw light is something a good grower
                   should expect with 2 lbs for the pros. Doesn't really say much about the variables, veg time flowering time etc. I am
                   very much into the maximizing yield per plant on a 3 - 4 1/2 month cycle as I don't want to grow more than 9 months a
                   year. The sog, scrog and maxiscrog all sound woth exploring. Vic, How many Romberry crops do you get out of the 20
                   watt/ft set up you show? Clones and no CO2? What is your take on Marc's views on yield? 'nuf for now.


                   TOPIC - low yielder
                   DATE - 15:30:00 6/12/99
                   FROM - pi
                   6 gal pots is overkill IMHO. i currently have a grow veg'd approx 2 months with the plants being 2-3 feet tall before
                   flower. they are now @ 2/4 weeks of budding and are 40"-58" tall in 3 gal pots. i may downsize to 2 gal(8") or even 1
                   gal(6")pots next time around. not sure what my yield per sqft is but i am conservatively expecting at least 2z per plant
                   or over 5lbs in a 5x9 area.

                   i use worm castings verm and perlite with 2 1k lights and until yestersday i had hi heat (85-90). a 15000 btu wall a/c
                   was installed today. i do not run co2 yet and use nothing fancy. i probably have 7-8 diff strains in 1212 inluding



                   TOPIC - oil update
                   DATE - 15:11:25 6/12/99
                   FROM - pi
                   re:oil... you can get oil from males and trimmed females in veg. yahoooo

                   nice taste and very nice intense buzz from this oil. was a little more green in color than the first and not quite as good
                   but still well worth the effort. i would think that males will provide oil for selective breeding purposes and what you do
                   not smoke can be used as contact cement.)



                   TOPIC - Low Yielder
                   DATE - 15:06:35 6/12/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All,
                   Low Yielder- Afoaf's first grow was Romberry from seed, three ladies veged in BCGA's "super soil", in 2 gal pots for 50
                   days under 400mh, flowered for 50-55 days under 400hps, no Co2 used, there was a some suplemental organic ferts
                   used, they were "Bio-Blend 2 part" and "SuperThrive" was used in veg waterings, allthough they were not nessesary,
                   you know how begiginers can be, now the understanding about "Organics" is understood. The three girls yielded a little
                   over 6ozs. Very impressive for, "first time out the gate".Most notable impression was the top colas were 12"-14" long
                   3"-4" wide, and weighed 20-22 grams each dried, with only a 400watt lamp and no Co2, this newbie thought that was
                   impressive, and results like that would need more penetration like a 1000watt, but with most strains that is true, but
                   one of Roms traits is its abblity to really pull out great results with low lighting, some folks use 35 watts per sqft with
                   execellent results. Allthough its great to have a strain do that great from the start, it really lets you know what is
                   possiable, hence a lot of strains just cant impress after that. Give Rom a try Im not to knowledgble of grams to sqft, but
                   after a few Dutch strains and some other Canadaian genetics, I can say that Rom is hard to beat, especially when
                   yield, and top quality are important. Really spoils ya for a fist crop, but really lets ya discard others quickly. HTH


                   PS One of the RSB suprises has BlueBerry for a dad, with out a doubt,short nodes, discolored smallish leaves, and is
                   the bitchiest one of the lot, the rest are looking like they had either the Per Sat or Durban as dads.Ill post a complete
                   suprise,& Peak19/F2 report next week.


                   TOPIC - Danbo Guerilla Gardener
                   DATE - 12:30:49 6/12/99
                   FROM - Peaceness
                   Hi Danbo! I had the pleasure of meeting you and smoking out with you last fall at Nc's. I remember you had told me
                   about a strain called ruderalis trip and hollyweed that you grew outdoors. I was wondering what the characteristics of
                   these plants were outdoors, and what else you are growing out this season. I was also wondering if you are sill growing
                   out kong, and if you have since made crosses with it. I myself have decided to grow outdoors this year and have read
                   ALL your posts at the weedbase archive.(where have you been?) Any advice/pointers on outdoor grows would be
                   appreciated. my plants have been in the ground almost a month now and they are getting bigger, i dont know what to
                   expect at the end of the season as far as yield goes. all strains are ones that greenbear gave me along with a few of
                   nc's strains. same strains have been grown indoors and are POTENT. other than that,I really enjoy outdoor so far,
                   LOTS OF HARD WORK!! Also, what do you think about spring harvests? (plant in feb, harvest in may?)am at the 34
                   parallel. Thanks for all the info, hope to see you this year with samples of my own. :)-Peaceness

                   p.s. (greenbear, a-1, whats the deal with you guys? long time no hear, e-mail me and keep in touch. thanks guys!!)


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 12:18:09 6/12/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Danbo - good to see ya and thanks.

                   Anon - yeah sure genetics can play part of the role but many other things come into play. most of your question is
                   answered at cannabis.com's advanced page. Feel free to comment or pose new questions from it if you want more info
                   from me. I don't want to repeat myself :)

                   Budm, ICQ me if you can, thanks


                   TOPIC - Yield
                   DATE - 11:32:47 6/12/99
                   FROM - Low yielder
                   Need advice on increasing yield. Have plants growing from clones in 6 gallon containers, soil, under 2000 watts mh and
                   hps (30 watts/ft). Grown 1 month under 18/6 (~15-18") and flowered for 9 weeks. Last 2 harvests came in at 31 oz and
                   25oz or ~.5 and .35 oz/ft respectively. Is romberry the answer? Or are the yields I read about on the net the over active
                   fantasies of waanabes. Help!


                   TOPIC - NCGA
                   DATE - 10:02:22 6/12/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   Vic, I gave NC a phone call and informed him of his pages condition. D


                   TOPIC - Vic High Hi!
                   DATE - 09:54:43 6/12/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   Hey can any old crazy people hang around here?


                   TOPIC - 180 clones
                   DATE - 08:33:28 6/12/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi all,
                   180- I can name that tune, despensible thriving, vaulable ones dying, truer words were never spoken;-)

                   Well the Pan Red is releasing pollen. I think (i hope) it will be a good sativa to bring Nevils Haze a bit more
                   manaigablity, as the PR only streached about 8" in flower, it started 12/12 at about 14". Time will tell.

                   GA- Well either the concentration that is being used is to low, or the resistance of this Shiske x BigPlum female is very
                   high, or a bit of each. All the GA's done is elongate the stems. These two female Shiske x's are strong and were
                   resistant to some nasty light stressing, that I know would have put most into hermi. Well so much for GA, im sure it
                   will get utilized again in the future, im not giving up on trying, just with this plant.

                   A great weekend to all;-))


                   TOPIC - cloning, diane
                   DATE - 07:20:48 6/12/99
                   FROM - 180
                   hi diane :-)
                   there are many methods of cloning, but you want to stick to the simple ones. taking a clone "from a leaf" (tissue
                   culture) is WAY too slow, complicated, difficult.
                   many people "top" their plants at some point in their growth, to slow their upward growth and make them spread. when
                   this is done, the removed top of the plant can serve as a clone, rather than being discarded. this is a good way to "save
                   a copy" of a seedling that you are growing out to flower. after you decide whether you want to keep the plant (based on
                   how it turns out in flower), you have that clone to use as a mother plant.
                   BUT, i would advise taking more than one clone, because clones have a way of dying when they are important, and
                   thriving when they are disposable, if you know what i mean...so in addition to the "top", you might wish to take a
                   couple lower branches as cuttings, too.

                   there's alot more info on this subject in the archives at www.weedbase.com, and ~shabang~ is always glad to help with
                   newbie q's. check the FAQs, lots of help in cloning. best of luck :-)



                   TOPIC - cloning
                   DATE - 04:17:43 6/12/99
                   FROM - diane
                   Over at another site someone mentioned
                   they take a clone by "topping" their plant...
                   Could someone give me details where exactly
                   you take a clone? I thought it was from a
                   bottom leaf.
                   Also, I read that one tbl. of lemon juice will
                   lower the ph...that seems like too easy of a
                   solution for high ph problems.
                   What do you guys think?


                   TOPIC - loop_hole
                   DATE - 22:27:18 6/11/99
                   FROM - Old Bud
                   On those water cooled lamps, are you using hoods? How big of an area could you light with 5 and a sun twist?



                   TOPIC - Ewchat down?
                   DATE - 18:36:19 6/11/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Hey I've been trying to post a correction at NCGA's site but it doesn't seem to be accepting posts. For those following
                   the lime thread there this was what I was trying to post.

                   I've waited all week to post this. I was wrong in my last responce to Baudelaire. I thought I would wait to give the chem
                   student a chance to strut his stuff :) I previously posted:

                   "Yes I suspect there would be an indirect interaction somewhat between the MgSO3 and CaCO3. The precipitation
                   (removal) of the Mg++ out of the solution would create an imbalance of the Ca++ with the SO3- and CO3- levels so the
                   equilibrium would have to adjust"

                   According to an article (The pH Perspective)in a recent copy of Practical Hydroponics & Greenhouses, Ca++ would
                   would percipitate out of the solution at pH 7.5 and above. This means that it would have no effect on pH under alkaline
                   conditions. This means that only MgCO3 (or possibly MgSO3 as Baudelaire suggested) would be available to affect pH
                   under alkaline conditions. And it is already known that MgCO3 buffers against high pH by replacing OH- with CO3- and
                   precipitate out of solution as Mg(OH)2.

                   Same result but previous reasoning was wrong.


                   TOPIC - water-cooled lights
                   DATE - 12:33:27 6/11/99
                   FROM - KGB
                   Hey Loop_Hole, what brand of lights are you using, how much
                   were they, and are you running to waste or using a radiator?
                   I'm really interested in this technology as things are
                   heating up around here quickly....




                   TOPIC - Females from Seed? Check it out ...
                   DATE - 10:59:52 6/11/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   There might be a second way to improve the % ratio of females to males in a given batch of seeds. In some cases, it
                   does seem to have moved the plants from the usual female/male ratio of 50/50 closer to a 80/20 ratio or better.

                   It might work for you ... and it can't hurt.

                   Here's the deal : Sprout the seeds and get them started in small pots or cups. Place under bright flourescent lights
                   until they have developed 3 sets of true leaves, plus one growing tip on the top.

                   Then, twice a day, AM & PM, for 3 days in a row, spray the top and the undersides of the leaves with a soaking mist of
                   standard fish-emulsion solution ( 1 Tablespoon per gallon ).
                   ( Have been told not to overdo it since much more of the spray tends to produce hermaphropdites.) That's it .... pretty
                   simple, and it sure smells bad ...

                   Post the results if you try it. : )

                   Oh yeah, almost forgot ... the first way to do it ....

                   It is possible to achieve 100% female plants from any given batch of seedlings ( at least according to published papers
                   in the botanical literature ). However, there is one little problem ... the substance that achieves the effect is very
                   hazardous to people exposed to it. In fact, in high enough concentrations, it's lethal.

                   It won't hurt the plants, or have any effect on the contents of the resulting herb, but it's just not worth the risk.

                   So, in order to be consistant, I won't let the cat out of the bag ... take my word for it ... I tried, I screwed-up,
                   I got sick. ( The method was intended for small plants or seedlings, and we tried to do it on 6 footers way the hell out in
                   the boonies! Muy stupido !)

                   With the coming of the clone, getting all the seeds to go female just isn't That important anymore ... .



                   TOPIC - pizza; co2
                   DATE - 05:01:35 6/11/99
                   FROM - 180
                   pizza, co2 is heavier than air, so usually the kit set-ups have emitter tubing that you hang above the tops of the
                   plants...or behind the fan. if you pump it in at the botom of the space, it is likely to just sit there.


                   TOPIC - co2
                   DATE - 02:04:07 6/11/99
                   FROM - pizza
                   is there a certain place a person should put the outlet for inducing co2 into my little gardenany suggestions


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 22:20:40 6/10/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   ukcblaze-I'd just pick them a bud at a time. When a 3/4 of a bud's hairs turn, cut it off. Or, you can harvest the top half
                   of the plant first then, lower the light, and give the bottom another three weeks.

                   The finishing times are only estimates. I finished some blueberries a few months back, two were done at 8 weeks, the
                   others at 11.


                   TOPIC - First Timer
                   DATE - 19:29:57 6/10/99
                   FROM - ukcblaze
                   Hi, I hope this question doesnt make me sound too naive. I am growing for the first time and purchased a pack of
                   Romulan Suprise from BCGA. I have a grow space of 2 foot by 2 foot and am in the forth week of flowering two females.
                   I am using a 400 watt sodium at 12 on and 12 off. One of my plants is showing lots of dark red/purple hairs well the
                   other still has very green hairs. I believe the flowering time for the Romulan Surprise is 10 weeks, so I am hesitent to
                   pick the fruit. Can someone give me some advise??? please Email me at UKCBLAZE@HOTMAIL.COM.


                   TOPIC - staying cool and tanning my babies
                   DATE - 18:04:42 6/10/99
                   FROM - loop_hole
                   Vic- I would tend to agree with blazer about the water vapor not effecting the bulb. Of course with no direct experience
                   two IMHOís = squat. I donít think youíll need extremely high pressure to atomize the water (although It would be
                   easier). You could be the one to invent the HVLP of foggers. When I was looking for misters for my aero setup last
                   year, la.bud (I think) had a link to some very nice misters (brass) that where made for fogging. Donít have the link but I
                   think laís still around.
                   Other options for cooling would be to run a car radiator in a run to waste or circulating system with a swamp cooler.
                   Would help keep humidity down. Perhaps not as efficient, but a system you can use is always more efficient then one
                   you cant :)
                   Been setting up the water-cooled lights this week and these things are incredible. Shocking how little water is needed
                   and how cool the jackets are. Weíll see how they grow. Had to set up a glass barrier between the UV-b and the plastic
                   jacket so I donít destroy my investment. An easy way to keep your room cool would to get the sun twist and run
                   water-cooled lights. AhÖ a five light water-cooled sun twist. If I only had the balls/time/energy. That would be seriously
                   Please keep me informed with your UV experience and Iíll do the same. Not a lot of info floating around. If you want to
                   keep that kind of info off this board, just say so. BTW, the bulbs you have are the exact same ones Iím using. Havenít
                   put the plants under yet, hopefully this weekend.

                   Re- potency and UV. I came to the conclusion based on my experience from going from MH to MH air cooled to hps
                   then to air cooled hps with a few 400 mh thrown in. There is always variables and my results are far from scientific, but
                   I found that the more UV in the room the stronger the product. Even if itís all in my mind, this is a hobby (not a
                   business) for me and I love to play. Iíve very aware of the dangers associated and take the necessary precautions. I
                   donít find it to be unnatural though, just adding to the light spectrum.



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 13:46:13 6/10/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   KGB - the questions about specific strains belongs more on one of teh public sites such as Cannabis.com. I prefer to
                   keeps things a little more generic here (strain wise) to avoid egos getting bruised and all the crap that goes with it.

                   Om Mani Padme -email me and we'll see what we can do. Feezing is the best for long term storage but it does hurt the
                   viability rate. bcga@mailcity.com



                   TOPIC - blue moonshine
                   DATE - 12:48:11 6/10/99
                   FROM - stonerg
                   I have limited experience but I will say it doesn't get any denser.


                   TOPIC - Blue Moonshine??
                   DATE - 12:29:39 6/10/99
                   FROM - KGB
                   Howdy all -

                   Looking to vary my crop a bit, and I asked Marc Emery what
                   would be the stickiest, frostiest, rock-hardest buds around.
                   He said Blue Moonshine, a White Widow hybrid, without a
                   doubt. So does anyone have any experience with this strain?
                   Please help with your input.

                   Thanks in advance,



                   TOPIC - Freezer Beans eh? Om Mani Padme
                   DATE - 12:06:02 6/10/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   That sounds very interesting strain wise, sounds like someone has kept some killer lineage around thankfully! I wonder
                   how the freezer effects storage opposed to refridgeration? I'd think that frozen 1's wouldn't stay viable as long, but I have
                   nothing to back that up. The fridge has done Me VERY well in the past for several years of storage w/ great germ rates.
                   Om Mani Padme If Vic doesnt bite on that offer and some info on lineage is available, We here know several growers
                   that would love to keep the "strains of old" pure and growing to be spread through out Our lil coop. We've been able to
                   keep several strains up and running as no 1 person had the room for them all, but share cuttings whenever needed
                   assuring it's existence all along. Food for thought anyhow.


                   TOPIC - Vic - switcheroo ?
                   DATE - 11:50:16 6/10/99
                   FROM - Om Mani Padme
                   There are several batches of beans that have been stored in a freezer for almost too long. Their breeding lines go back
                   quite a ways. However, we aren't able to properly take care of this legacy, and would very much like to see that the
                   lines are carried forward.

                   Do any of the BCGA members have an inclination to try them?
                   No strings attached, no expectations. ( Though feedback on how they do, and how they compare, would be
                   appreciated. )

                   We'd be happy to send a batch or two, if it's cool. Would sending them to one of your seed brokers work? If so, which
                   one? There are at least two BC brokers shown on the site. Is there any preferable address? ( I recall that Marc Emery's
                   site shows multiple addresses to receive orders. )

                   If it's a hassle on your end for any reason, or poses a security hazard, we'll just shine it on and keep smiling.

                   Best wishes ...



                   TOPIC - Vic. 180, Breeding
                   DATE - 10:24:38 6/10/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   Vic I have seen the misters You're talking about and the heat from the lamp evaporates the 10micron sized h2o drops
                   IMO b4 they hit the lights. I think misters will work awesome coupled w/ a lil extra circulation to keep any h2o from
                   accumilating anywhere.
                   180 Killer answers to those posts! Thanks for answering them and saving My fingers!;) We are getting to be quite
                   packed full of knowledge these days eh? Keep up the killer work Mi Amigo!
                   Breeders...Man I tell You from expirience that it's no "cup of tea" by anymeans. The variances seen are just incredible
                   and that isn't always cool. It seems every cross I made, the 1's I expect to be "stable" are not and vise versa. An old
                   friend of Ours(Nestaa) claims His keepers are almost a 1 inna million shot seed wise and I'm finding damn near the
                   same thing. It's a major crapshoot, for example. I ordered 5 diffewrent strains from Amsterdam 3 years ago, Jack
                   Herrer, Jack Flash, AK47, Kali Mist and NL#5. I ended up keeping only 1 seedling from those seed packs after growing
                   them out! 1 AK47 cut the mustard while ALL the others hit the trashcan and these are "stable F1's" via Serious and
                   Sensi seed co.'s. And oddly enough, the majority of strains that I have gotten via American/Canadian buddies that also
                   breed have proven to be MUCH more stable than the exspensive 1's(MCW and NLW were and are 2 keepers aswell
                   IMO). I'll never buy any seeds again from a seedbank. I've passed out several MCW seeds and almost every single
                   person has reported the exact same results as Myself. I still don't understand why, maybe luck of the draw..Who
                   knows for sure?
                   I'm getting ready to germ some Grimm white shark and Ice Princess soon via Brothers Grimm, I'm betting they blow
                   away the dutch shit. I'll keep You all posted.
                   Be Safe and Stay Free Friends,


                   TOPIC - Politics
                   DATE - 10:06:45 6/10/99
                   FROM - nl420
                   Hey Vic wassup... Do you have a link source for that story on The US Gov. giving Canada marijuana for Canadian Med
                   trials?.. What an Oxymoron..



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 07:50:58 6/10/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Crane - yes a very big thanks from me as well. Your post helped answer one of my questions. Is fogging technology
                   economically feasable for the small grower? Ithinkfor the small 1 -2 lightgrower that simple air movement should get the
                   job done with maybe the suplement of a homemade swamp cooler. Still looking further into it but it seems fogging
                   would be more practical for the larger scale grower. Another question I'm still working on is "will teh fog be hazardous
                   on the lamps?". My hunch is that the water particles will be small enough to avoid the explosive reaction but ?? Was
                   going to ask around at larger commercial greenhouses but I guess they don't use the supplimental lighting during the
                   hot summer months. Kinda got lotsaflight already, haha.

                   180 & irish- couldn't say it better myself. I think female come first as you said but I always get that mixed up. I seem to
                   recall that I fluked out and named romberry according to convention though. Another difference in the crosses in
                   addition to the sexlinked genes is the cytoplasmic linked genes. There are many traits that are passed along in the
                   cytoplasm and not part of the DNA. I think the chloroplasts fit into that catagory but not positive off the top of my head.
                   The first year basics kinda got lost in the 3rd and 4th year details butI think it is cytoplasmic RNA that is also being
                   passed along by the maternal parent.

                   Politics - our federal government has decided to buy medical marijuana from teh US until they can find a Canadian
                   company that can economically and reliably supply them with quality herb. Going to be used to conduct "true scientific
                   trials" on it's medical effectivness. Double ROTFLMAO. A side bonus is that two med patients have been given the
                   compasionate ok to grow and use cannabis.


                   TOPIC - irish, seymore, crane
                   DATE - 07:25:32 6/10/99
                   FROM - 180
                   irish, vic would probably be more sure on this, but i believe the female in the cross comes first (exs: NLW is a NLights
                   mom x male Widow; MCW is a M.Mite x Chemo mom x male Widow. most commercial breeders don't inform you as
                   to the sex of the parents, but i think F x M is the convention.
                   and YES, you will possibly see different results in breeding between 2 strains (#1 & #2) if you use different sexes in
                   breeding, i.e, #1F x #2M might turn out different than #2F x #1M. when breeding WITHIN a strain that is already
                   "stabilized" by backcrossing, you would see less difference...

                   note that i use the word "possibly". the results you get are gonna depend on a number of factors, such as which traits
                   of a given strain happen to be "sex-linked", how much the 2 strains you are x-ing have in common genetically, etc.

                   breeding is always a crapshoot until you are familiar with the plants you work with. it's a gamble at best to make broad
                   statements about the genetic performance of weed, because it has a fairly large genome for a plant and is VERY varied
                   in its phenotypic expression.

                   for instance, the old saw about F1 offspring being "uniform" is a generalization that breaks down pretty rapidly after
                   you've seen a few batches of F1 seedlings. sure they're uniform, compared to F2's! but there's still LOTS of variation,
                   which is how we pick our best mom out of a batch of seedlings...

                   seymore, the air-layering technique should work, but it probably would be easier to take a tray of cuttings and root
                   them, than to try to do it on the plant! outdoors they are subject to so much variation in temp and humidity, light, etc.
                   good luck!

                   crane, speaking as "one of the loquacious", i assure you that your post is appreciated for its lucidity and quality info.
                   btw, do you use a mac? af's got the same "cut-off" problem with his mac...

                   peace and bounteous harvests!



                   TOPIC - breeding questions
                   DATE - 22:41:31 6/09/99
                   FROM - irish
                   when listing a name for a strain, are names created in order of male x female or f x m? very curious.and would the
                   results from both have different results. (true breeding strains)


                   TOPIC - updates
                   DATE - 21:29:51 6/09/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   sorry to anyone who got deleted. Just fixing a few links and archiving most of this page. Links to archives is fixed as
                   well but links between archive pages are still not working properly so you will have to rely on your browser's Back
                   button for going backwards.


                   TOPIC - air-layering technique
                   DATE - 17:45:36 6/09/99
                   FROM - seymore buds
                   Hey !! cool site. Anyways me and a friend are doing the grow thing outdoors in CA. The plants are coming along fine,
                   but we want to take cuttings from them and grow them in a hydroponic system (a pyraponic system fromthe mid
                   eighties when you could still get seeds mailed to the U.S.). Anyways,we were wondering if the cuttings could be gotten
                   successfully using the ancient air-layering method that is in the Western Garden book. Keep up the good work and
                   thanks in advance. :)



                   TOPIC - Variable Potency Cycle ...
                   DATE - 10:19:33 6/09/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   There seem to be a lot of postings on-line about "curing" and/or "drying" herb, & how different methods might affect
                   taste and potency. Also, there have been discussions ( on other boards ) of the differing types of high that certain
                   strains will produce. Some are "up", or "cerebral", while others are described as having a "down" or "narcotic" buzz.
                   Sativa vs Indica, and the timing of the harvest, are said to have the most influence on these traits.

                   More work needs to be done. When the U.S. government was growing cannibis for research in Oxford, Mississippi, one
                   of the things they did was track the constituent elements of the plant on a regular basis. We all know that the
                   THC/CBN/CBD ratios of a plant can change on a weekly and monthly basis ... however, studies at Oxford found that
                   the numbers also varied daily And Hourly!! As I recall, the highest numbers were found in early morning, and went up
                   and down several times during the day, but not quite returning to the early AM levels.

                   Here's the big question : If the plant material is cut off the stem in the early AM, and placed in total darkness, will the
                   metobolism of the plant stop at that point, preserving the THC/CBD ratios where they were when cut, or will it continue
                   to change the levels and ratios until it "dies"?



                   TOPIC - x10 Home Automation for 5.90$
                   DATE - 10:13:02 6/09/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   ALL If You ever wanted to see what a x10 system can do, they are now having a 24hr. promo where they are selling the
                   software, interface, 2 diff. modules and a hand hald deal for 5.90$!!!!!www.x10.com/free_fire.htm That's the place to look
                   and order, they also have a 1-800 # there too. Get on it folks cuz I dont think there are too many hours left on this deal.
                   It's wicked, You could control everything in Your home or grow or both via Your pc w/ this unit. It can be programmed to
                   page or call You when a problem arises!ie. light not on or breaker probs...whatever You can think of. Check it out
                   Friends, Blaze


                   TOPIC - extras...
                   DATE - 21:14:55 6/08/99
                   FROM - crane
                   sorry guys, the end of my messages always get cut off. And
                   they show up in a narrow column (on my machine anyhow)
                   making them look evn more longwinded than they are ;-) It's
                   my browser I guess since it does it to web email too...

                   Anyhow I meant to say that fungi perfecti place is south of
                   the border to vancouver growers and being a specialty
                   suplier, pricy... but they're friendly by email and might
                   answer some questions at least. They seem to have the
                   nozzles you're after Vic, and you're right, they're brass.

                   Money's Mushrooms here in the valley would probably point
                   you to a local suplier if you give them a call. Good luck
                   with it!


                   TOPIC - wine-making
                   DATE - 19:00:52 6/08/99
                   FROM - drA
                   hey, t2, i made wine for many years before i got into gardening, some of it was actually quite good and what you
                   couldn't drink went into the still and made some kick-ass white lightning. i won't clutter up the page with a long OTP,
                   check your mail!


                   TOPIC - Fogger sources / mister pressure etc
                   DATE - 17:21:56 6/08/99
                   FROM - crane
                   Vic - mushroom growers use all kinds of foggers (ultrasonic
                   and mechanical) to create the humidity needed for their
                   rooms, so mycology supply places might be another place to
                   check out. I know they have systems serious enough to fog
                   large 'greenhouse' shaped spaces.

                   The largest mushroom farms use steam, which is no use to
                   you, but many use "atomizing" misters in a separate room.
                   The air flows in through this room before entering the main
                   grow. According to Paul Stamets & J.S. Chilton in "The
                   Mushroom Cultivator" - "An appropriate nozzle emits 0.5-1.0
                   gallon per hour at 20-30 psi."

                   Home mushroom growers use utrasonic humidifiers (widely
                   available) which atomize water down to the low micron size
                   you're after. To put that in perspective, a rain drop
                   averages 6000 microns, and anything under 45 microns is
                   invisible to even the sharpest eye.

                   Putting water into the air, no matter how finely, *is*
                   creating humidity though. I've used one of those ultasonic
                   humidifiers and despite the small particle size condensation
                   will occur on any cool surface combining the small particles
                   back into big drops. The nozzles or swamp coolers should
                   produce even more free water. If you can find a way of
                   cutting down the free water after cooling the air but before
                   it enters the grow that should help a lot. A seperate room
                   where the cooled but humid air can mill about and drop some
                   of it's load might do the trick.

                   In case the link for fungi perfecti doesn't work, here it is
                   http://www.fungiperfecti.com/catalog.html. Foggers are down
                   at the bottom of a LONG page. Great site that, anyone who
                   hasn't had a go at mushrooms should give one of their
                   gourmet/medicianl kits a try.. great fun. Tough as hell
                   compared to

                                             Link: Foggers WAY at the bottom of this page


                   TOPIC - swamp coolers n wine
                   DATE - 11:18:07 6/08/99
                   FROM - t2
                   vic a swamp cooler is also known as an evaporative cooler. basically it's a square box with 3 sides having filters that
                   water trickles thru as the air is sucked thru by a large squirrel cage type fan in the center of the box which blows it out
                   the fourth side into a window opening.it has a reservoir and a float valve on the bottom and just needs an 1/8 or 1/4"
                   tubing water inlet. it works twofold,the air is cooled as it is sucked thru the wet filters then evaporation occurs.physics
                   101 as you said,evaporation is a cooling process,condensation is a heating process.(i had to think on that theory for
                   awhile before i believed it tho,ha-ha) btw misting foggers are already being used for cooling in the south in some of the
                   outdoor cafe's and beer gardens and people use them on their patio's etc. i haven't heard of them being used for cooling
                   inside,but i do know that more air flow going thru would increase the rate of evaporation thus decreasing the temp. if
                   you misted without proper airflow you'd end up with a humid moldy mess imo.

                   sory for going off topic but hey anybody know an easy way to make wine? i got more red plums this year than carters
                   got pills. my buddy used to make it in a glass carboy using welch's grape juice,yeast and suger with a large balloon
                   over the top to act as his airlock,but i don't remember how much of what. i know some people ferment fruit with the pulp
                   in,and some without the pulp.any suggestions or links?


                   TOPIC - Thanks
                   DATE - 08:31:56 6/08/99
                   FROM - hobie
                   Vic - thanks for the info.....


                   TOPIC - ..here's one for herpatology....
                   DATE - 08:02:05 6/08/99
                   FROM - Perp
                   Reptile Fogger:

                   Lg ones are available through Holloween stores....or try DJ Supplies, like as in disc jocky for parties, they usem for


                   TOPIC - cooling/foggers
                   DATE - 07:49:02 6/08/99
                   FROM - Perp
                   Fog for Cooling, great Idea, but if ya wanna go way high tech, use an ultrasonic fogger, no moving parts, jus' drop the
                   transdeucer in the water and voila, FOG. I have a small one I got for "rooting" experiments, and you can get Lg. ones,
                   used often for special effects...I may just throw mine in the garden (great idea) as it's startin' to get HOT in Cali! Ha!


                   TOPIC - foggers
                   DATE - 07:34:08 6/08/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Thanks everyone for the replies. I checked the links and didn't see anything suitable but did fire off a couple emails. I'm
                   looking more for the commercial fogging setup, not misting. Droplets need to be very fine (10 microns or less) to avoid
                   getting the whole greehouse wet. Don't want those lights to explode, haha. It also needs to be backed up with good
                   ventilation to avoid the heavy humid buildup that cedartop mentioned.

                   The little screwing around i do with autobody painting tells me that the pressure needed to create 10 micron droplets
                   would wear out plastic nozzles quickly and that they would more than likely need to be steel or at the very least,
                   brass. Just thinking out loud here :)

                   T2 - your water line comment leads me to believe you are referring to the internal "true radiator" type of swamp cooler?
                   It uses the water temps to cool? I'm thinking more of an external evaporative design where water temp wouldn't really
                   matter. My reasoning is that evaporative would be more efficient I think. I don't have the exact numbers but I remeber
                   from high school chemistry that evaporating water takes way more energy than simply raising it a degree. I think its
                   something like 10 fold. All that said, if there was a proper cooling fogger that operates off regular water pressure I would
                   be one happy clam :)

                   I think this is going to take some good old fashioned leg work like the UVB tubes did. Internet is good but not
                   complete. Had to go through a dozen wholesalers and dealers before finding one that knew what I was talking about
                   with the UVB tubes. Two of the sales reps actually got quite heated when I would not accept the idea that the
                   blacklight was what I was looking for, haha.


                   TOPIC - misters
                   DATE - 23:41:22 6/07/99
                   FROM - t2
                   hey vic,theres lots of misters on the market. i think the ones used primarily in greenhouses are designed to run off
                   normal water pressure and fit right into a 1/2" pvc T. most greenhouse supply co's should stock them. i know
                   mellingers does(www.mellingers.com).the drip irrigation companies make misters designed to work on lower pressure
                   to conserve water that you just pop into black poly like a drip emitter also. www.raindrip.com or www.dripworksusa.com
                   are a couple that come to mind. personally i'm sold on air-cooled reflector hoods but i think in the north a swamp cooler
                   would be ideal for your air inlet. your water lines are deeper and stay much colder than mine



                   TOPIC - Vic/swamp coolers
                   DATE - 21:21:57 6/07/99
                   FROM - sb
                   The coolers you speak of are used extensively throughout dryer sections of the U.S. and are known as swamp coolers.
                   If you opt for evaporative cooling (and I'm sure you know this), plan on moving PLENTY of air to avoid mold probs.
                   Most use a synthetic mat in the form of a circular belt


                   TOPIC - cooling
                   DATE - 21:21:19 6/07/99
                   FROM - pi
                   i forgot to mention that it is nothing more than a fancy garden sprayer which you fill up with water from the tap or ice
                   water than pump it up. when you spray the water out the larger surface area from the smaller water particles makes
                   flash evaporation possible and a cooling effect.


                   TOPIC - cooling
                   DATE - 21:16:20 6/07/99
                   FROM - cedartop
                   vic, got a uncle who has five acres of greenhouses in fla. when they have the misters on down there its so humid you
                   can just about cut the air. seems to me you'd be encountering a serious mold problem if you used the misters enough
                   to keep the temp down. i know the floors of his greenhouses are wet all of the time. its still like a steambath in there. i
                   know my idea of using vortex coolers have gotten sorry results over the at the base, but i think if i had the money to
                   invest i'd go that way. i've got a compressor and a 1k halide here if i ever scrape up the bucks i'm gonna buy one and
                   see what they will do. sure would beat using water for cooling. a person could go with a sealed room and use one of
                   the coolers for his air intake. "no borgs from fresh air inlets" but then again a air compressor would add to your electric



                   TOPIC - Vic ...flash evaporation
                   DATE - 21:14:23 6/07/99
                   FROM - pi
                   whatis happening is called flash evaporation. they have these way-over-priced insulated quart sized bottles on the
                   shopping network that consist of a pump up airless sprayer and fancy nozzle that does the same thing. they call them
                   personal coolers. they mentioined that there is a way to make it wet but i did not pay attention as $30 for 2 is still too
                   high priced for me. Neat.

                   i would suspect that concept has been around for awhile and technology has finally got to the point where the nozzles
                   can be manufactured cheap inuf to market to the public.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 20:33:05 6/07/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Hey Randy and Hobie - the best beginner info can be found at Cannabis.com and Weedbase. Links to them can be
                   found on the BCGA main page, link is above. But quickly, but yes yellowing is normal and pruning during flower is a
                   grey area. Uncle Ben was involved in a good discussion about this at Cannabis.com's Advanced page. Just sift your
                   way through it, there should be enough info there for you to make a sound decision for your particular situation. Hobie,
                   safest start is to start with no nutes and then slowly build after a week. Don't float the cubes, that's too wet. Flos are
                   best to start but HIDs will get the job done if you are careful. But others will disagree. Weedbase is a perfect place for
                   your questions. It's search engine is fantastic and needs to be used more.


                   TOPIC - cooling
                   DATE - 20:23:27 6/07/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   I was chatting last weekend with a buddy about cheap ways to cool our rooms without adding too much to the hydro
                   bill. We were talking about building something I used about a decade ago in the forestry research greenhouses.

                   It looked like an external radiator. The core was a honeycombed cardboard and the water poured over it keeping it
                   moist. I've seen it called a "water wall" in some greenhouse literature. This water system was closed and not
                   connected with the plant irrigation system. Reason was that we added an agaecide (bleach?) to teh water to keep the
                   rad from clogging with algae. Today the same technology is used by those Convair home/office coolers. I was thinking
                   of building something similar but using synthetic furnace filter sheets instead of teh cardboard. I would place a square
                   20" fan in front of it to pull the air through. I was also thinking this could double as a cooler for water cooled lights but I
                   think this part was heading into fantasy land, haha

                   Well I've been building this in my head for a couple of weeks ironing out the details when we started sifting through
                   some old and current issues of "Practical Hydroponics & Greenhouses". Well it seems as if these "water walls" are
                   obsolete now and foggers are the coolers of choice. (Damn I'm feeling ancient :) "Fogging is used in conjuction with
                   ventilation to lower greehouse temperatures. Foggers must produce water droplets of under 10 microns so that the crop
                   is not left wet" Pg73 may/june 1999. Well this has left me with a couple of questions. First, what king of pumps,
                   emitters, and piping would be needed to supply the pressure to produce the 10 micron droplets and if these are so
                   small so as to leave the leaves dry, would they be safe around the bulbs?

                   Any ideas or water pressure experts out there?


                   TOPIC - Germination
                   DATE - 20:17:23 6/07/99
                   FROM - Hobie
                   I am VERY new to this game and would really appreciate any tips on germination. Will be using a hydroponic flood and
                   drain system with rockwool and am hoping y'all might have tips on:
                   1. Methodology (float the small cubes w/seeds in water or solution etc??)
                   2. Lights (should I use a florensant for the germination period and then switch to my 400w metal halide.
                   3. What solution do you recommend for the germination phase and then for further growing.

                   I apologize if I missed posts on this, I swear I looked

                   Thanks so much....


                   TOPIC - Pruning during Flowering
                   DATE - 20:02:33 6/07/99
                   FROM - Randy
                   First time grower needs to know. During the period of flowering is there any pruning or leaf removal ar any tipe of prune
                   to be dune during this period ? Also I have a few leaves turning yellow, not burning but completely yellowand then dry
                   up and fall off. Is this normal or what.

                   Please help me out !!!!!!!!!!!!!



                   TOPIC - :)
                   DATE - 13:00:41 6/07/99
                   FROM - diane
                   Thanx again Budm...looks like I'm on my
                   way then. It's easy to get overwhelmed
                   with the amount of info out here. I'm
                   sure I'll have more ?'s as I go...so
                   glad you guys are here :)


                   TOPIC - stuff
                   DATE - 12:35:11 6/07/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   180 - couldn't have said it better myself. Except that if your ISP account is in your name or traceable to you then you
                   may want to use a proxy. Many free ones out there, just do a search.

                   Budm - I had moderate success using .005% potassium giberellate but that info is at my webpage so I suspect you
                   already knew that, haha. Giving an extended dark period (48-72 hours) about two weeks into flower sometimes helped
                   flip them.


                   TOPIC - budm
                   DATE - 08:15:17 6/07/99
                   FROM - no-one
                   i tryed ga once, couldent get it to do anything except strech the plant like mad??imo it dont work??


                   TOPIC - A GA ? / Diane
                   DATE - 08:02:48 6/07/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi all,This question is for anyone that has used GA to induce male flowers, on female plants. afoaf has been using a
                   "off the shelf" preperation of GA and Idolebutyric Acid in a "Blossom Set Spray" retail package, the GA concentration
                   is.0000240% and the IA is .0000224%. Hes been spraying one branch and its leaves well, once a day. The plant is a
                   Shiskeberry X BigPlum, that is in a/b 5th week of 12/12, she took a 8 day detour for some light stressing, that she
                   survived like a trooper. The question is after how many days, should male flowers appear, with a once a day

                   Diane- My friends entry into this hobby, came with the modus-operandi that, do all you can for these plants. Well he
                   did the "Seltzer Spray/folar" in hopes of enhanced yields with the Co2, from the seltzer carbonation. He also used the
                   sugar/yeast fermentation, allthough I belive that the fermentation process does add to the overall amount of Co2 in the
                   air, I feel its a great deal of work for the marginal results it increses. If you have a Co2 tank and regulator, then
                   someone here will be able to help you with the finer points of its operation. My opinion about Co2 is unless you have
                   the tank set up, dont bother with the fermentation or seltzer, just make sure you have good circulation (grow room air
                   exchange) and lots of light. How many square feet is the grow area? You allready have good mixed spectrum lighting,
                   couple it with good circulation, and good nutes/medium, and proper care, and with the genetics you have, your on your
                   way to a nice harvest;-))



                   TOPIC - SPud
                   DATE - 06:58:45 6/07/99
                   FROM - 180
                   SPud, welcome! :-)

                   the short answer is, almost ALL pot busts seem to be the result of tip-offs to the local police by informants (persons
                   previously arrested and then allowed to go free and continue their illegal activies, on the condition that they ferret out
                   other law-breakers and turn them in to the police), spouses or lovers (lovers' spats can get NASTY), neighbors, gas- or
                   electric-meter readers (they come right up to the side of your house, for chrissakes!), or growing/dealing "partners",
                   when the deal goes sour. all these risks are enhanced by your own indiscretions, such as they may be...

                   the police are (fortunately for us) caught in the middle of a culture shift when it comes to cyberspace. the legal
                   precedents are slowly being established, but it's very hard for law enforcement to do ANYTHING about a place like this.
                   we are not actually breaking any laws by sharing info on this server (although if we use the shared info to facilitate
                   criminal activity then we are officially a "conspiracy", which is against the law in the U.S.). for law enforcement to
                   PROVE that we are anything more than a bunch of lying teenagers is damn near impossible, given the current legal
                   state of affairs, because most of us posting here don't even reside in the country where the server that hosts this chat
                   is located. cyberspace transcends most existing legal structures :-)

                   that said, the police and FBI are increasingly going after "cyber-criminals". their primary target used to be pedophiles,
                   but now with the increase in online scams and fraud, they are pursuing these crimes, too. another target is "hackers",
                   aka any fool with a few "exploits" at hand who has the poor judgement to try and break into govt and private computer
                   systems. why these people would commit crimes from which they DERIVE NO BENEFIT is beyond me; it's just people
                   who haven't mastered their ego yet, imho. but i'm glad they're out there because it distracts law enforcement from we
                   harmless hobby-grower potheads. 8-)))



                   TOPIC - webfish
                   DATE - 06:14:59 6/07/99
                   FROM - no-one
                   thanks for the info about the uv story!! sounds like i could be wasteing time and money on this adventure? i have read a
                   bit that says it should work but if u tryed it 3 times and it didnt it musent work??
                   SPud- its not illegal to talk about growing! for all the cops know we may be full of shit!! its proberly not worth their time
                   to track down a poster and get a warrent to find out that they just raided a 16yo kid with a reality complex?
                   besides their are enough assholes dobing in enough people to keep the cops going full time to need to do this..


                   TOPIC - :)
                   DATE - 05:56:33 6/07/99
                   FROM - diane
                   Thanx Budm for easing my mind regarding
                   the lights...I'm also wondering if & when
                   I should spray with Co2. Any suggestions?


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 22:23:27 6/06/99
                   FROM - SPud
                   Hi. What a totally wicked site! I only stumbled across this recently. Anyway, I was just wondering how you guys
                   manage to get away with posting messages that would normally insight a police bust? I mean, when I post I go to a
                   public library or something, but surely you guys don't go to an internet coffee shop or library every time you post? And I
                   can't be frigged using Lucent technologies (they are based on the opposite side of the world to me, and slow down
                   downoading speeds, so I ditched the fuckers).
                   And I find it strange that not a single poster has ever, in the whole history of HempBC chat page and all the others,
                   posted a message saying that they got raided with the only possible cause being cops tracing origins of posts (ie they
                   had everything else covered including power bill). In fact I haven't seen a single post of anyone getting busted, except
                   when there was an obvious reason, like someone dobbing them in. So whats the story you experts? Tell me.


                   TOPIC - safety in numbers
                   DATE - 18:57:43 6/06/99
                   FROM - drA
                   Eric, you missed the point of my post to which you refer; the point being that, in outdoor growing, many small patches
                   are better at avoiding complete losses FROM THIEVES than any number of big patches. my common sense also says
                   that LEO isn't likely to find or bother with a few plants here or a few plants there and inherently, you must believe this to
                   be so, since in your own post you mention moving plants around to reduce the size of the patch so you can avoid
                   detection by flyovers. if you start with many small patches to begin with, then you shouldn't have to worry about playing
                   a shell game with 'em. you also say that the more pot they find, the more money they get to go looking for more. which
                   site are the fly-boys gonna bother with, your 70 or my 6?

                   here's one thing you did get right; i planted schwag in some of my sites. the only evidence i've got that it IS schwag is
                   the say-so of a bunch of people on the 'net that i've never met. who knows, maybe it doesn't grow well indoors? i paid
                   money for the beans last year and they were lying around getting old, so why not plant it? about the only inference you
                   can reasonably make about the size of the plot is a prior post that mentions 4x9 and six plants, so yup, i've got maybe
                   six purportedly schwaggy plants growing in one place; hardly a huge plot. you also PRESUME that it's easy to spot; a
                   "giveaway" as you call it with "good pot" planted NEARBY. i suppose it depends on your definition of nearby, alpha
                   centauri is known as a "nearby" star, but there's a few hundred acres of heavily wooded land around me. i could TELL
                   you where the schwag is and you'd never find the rest of it by yourself.

                   maybe it's a question of scale, i grow for personal use and i have a full-time job, so i don't need nor do i have the time
                   to care for multiple sites with 70-90 plants each. where i live, that kind of production will GUARANTEE you 5 years in
                   jail and i like my freedom and my home, so i'll stick with my small patches. 1 lb a year is more than i can smoke and
                   give away, but i understand that there are those who make their living off this hobby, so more power to ya' if that's your


                   TOPIC - UV and co2
                   DATE - 16:57:52 6/06/99
                   FROM - webfish
                   Have tried various different experiments with,UV a, b and c,using different germicidal ,florescent and mercury vapor
                   lights ...After limeted studies (3 crops) havent found any noticable differance in the potency at all...As for the danger it
                   is in now way worth the nominal if 0 gains and huge risk of skincancer or other wierd things that coud happen from
                   such a unnatural-contrived environment....In other words use it in a protected vent tube to control odor
                   only(germicidal)and they have a pourpose in our rooms but only in the exhaust....

                   No-one those are very different bulbs (in the tanning salons) they only omit a fraction of the uv that the germicidal lamps
                   do, and almost no ozone and rember you still cover your eyes whan you lay in those electric coffins,.....

                   Chaos -you need a PPM test tube you can calculate all you want (ft3 x 1200ppm - available ppm = adtional co2
                   needed)however temp and exhaust, humidity and plant activity change this daily ,the best is to use a controller with a
                   sampler built in this will keep the leval at max 24/7 if you can't afford one ,get a tester tube for PPM and test three or
                   four times per day in your room for what you have already available then slowly open your flow meter check in an hour
                   or so,when you reach 1200ppm shut it off,(note amount of time elapsed) after some time the PPM will decrease this is
                   when you want the flow meter to open again(noting amount of time)this will give you some idea of the daily fluctuations
                   in your room concerning co2PPM....Also if you dont want to waste any co2 you need to interface your exhaust with a
                   shut off to the flow meter(so you dont flow while exhuasting>>).....

                   Hey Vic how are you??

                   Greenbear you out there?? Call me....


                   TOPIC - co2 help???
                   DATE - 14:16:09 6/06/99
                   FROM - chaos
                   how do i calculate what flow rate i should use in a 2x1.8x1.7meter room?????


                   TOPIC - uv-b/vic?
                   DATE - 13:07:20 6/06/99
                   FROM - no-one
                   hay vic, i thought u were useing these tubes aswell unless i read wrong??? i'm not entirly an ameture grower i just need
                   to know the facts? if people are laying 3"above these things to get a tan how bad can they be? i have never tryed these
                   things thats why i asked!! if they work i'd like to know, if they dont i'd like to know that as well!! as for who am i?? i'm
                   just the adverage aussi grower(maybe with a few more lights?)
                   stay cool


                   TOPIC - topics
                   DATE - 09:24:47 6/06/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   no-one - who are you? Working with UVb is dangerous, don't do it. At least that is my recomendation based on your
                   questions. As for the archives, yeah I think I farged up the links when I moved the page and still need to fix it. All the
                   archives are still alive and will be available some day when I take the time to fix the links.

                   Bobby - the generalized nature of your question suggests that you are still working on understanding the basics of
                   removing hot air and replacing with cool air. Weedbase and Cannabis.com are great places to get help with the basics.

                   outdoor - hate to add to this topic but wouldn't a shade cloth tent over each plant during the fly bys throw off their ability
                   to detect? Find those camo ones? Works on TV haha.


                   TOPIC - diane
                   DATE - 08:24:54 6/06/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All,
                   diane- Thats how afs garden is lit exactally, with 2 week old plants, just make sure that the lamps are not to close,
                   24-30" should be fine, your working with some great strains, treat them well, and they will reward you well. HTH

                   Eric- Good to see ya , was wondering if all was ok with ya, best of luck outside.




                   TOPIC - lights
                   DATE - 06:55:34 6/06/99
                   FROM - diane
                   I have two week old ak47 & cinderella99
                   plants under a combo light set-up with
                   one 400mh & one 400hps....is this right?



                   TOPIC - Eric
                   DATE - 06:08:15 6/06/99
                   FROM - 180
                   Eric, i hear ya, but it all depends on your individual experience, philosophy, where you grow, what you grow, how
                   much, etc.
                   vive la difference!

                   Blazer, i think eric's point about reduced watering would help to address the IR detection issue. the reason the plants
                   are easily spotted is because they are "hot"; they have a fast, "weed-like" metabolism and simply put off more heat in
                   the form of IR than other slower-growing plants. depriving them of water would slow down their metabolism. and wilting
                   would certainly change their appearance from the air, though i would hesitate to let my plants wilt, because wilting if left
                   too long WILL kill the plant, or reduce vigor and harvest quite a bit. a sudden heat wave would have you scrambling to
                   save them, and if you're not a full-time grower, imagine being at work and unable to leave, thinking of your patch frying
                   in the heat. yike!



                   TOPIC - uv-b/pontency
                   DATE - 04:25:54 6/06/99
                   FROM - no-one
                   have a few ? on the subject, tryed to get answers at weedbase but it didnt work out!
                   dose this actualy work?
                   can u hurt your plants?
                   how long do u give per hour?
                   at what stage do u start the treatment?
                   how close to the plants do u put uv bulbs(fluro type)?
                   i read every thing here i could find and tryed the arcives but for some reson it says that the file could not be found and
                   wont let me in??
                   any help from first hand experiance would be great!


                   TOPIC - air-cooled
                   DATE - 22:01:25 6/05/99
                   FROM - t2
                   bobby, air-cooled reflector hoods work great . if you don't have an air-cooled hood and your room is still to hot you'll
                   need more airflow or an a/c unit.


                   TOPIC - Eric
                   DATE - 21:20:31 6/05/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   Eric the military flys for the cops around here and use infrared imaging to detect the "kind". It has a totally unique heat
                   signature than any other local plants. So the military just "plays" w/ these toys, then passes the info on to the locals.
                   There just isnt such a thing as a sure thing, nor is there anything common about common sense damnit. That has
                   nothing to do w/ this issue, just 1 more saying I find Myself using more and more sadly. I see Your points big.


                   TOPIC - cooling the room
                   DATE - 20:28:09 6/05/99
                   FROM - bobby
                   does anybody know the best way to cool a room down. I understand and have installed exaust fans - any ideas??


                   TOPIC - Outdoor growing
                   DATE - 14:55:17 6/05/99
                   FROM - Eric
                   I have been lurking and reading for a while but refraining from posting...I feel the need to post because recently i have
                   read some posts from outdoor growers that are absolutely rediculoius.

                   first i read one from a guy that posted that he would plant a huge plot of shwag and then plant his "good pot" in small
                   patches around it. This makes no since at all to me for a couple of reasons

                   1. it takes the same amount of energy to plant PRIMO as it does to plant SHWAG. they require the same amount of
                   time and work. What happens if the plot doesnt get ripped??
                   you have a bunch of shwag..why not plant PRIMO..then you have a bunch of primo. In true gurilla farming patches
                   RARELY get ripped...I know that you read about patches 6-10 plants..but in true gurilla farming you do several patches
                   of 70-90 plants...use camo and good site selection to keep them until harvest and DONT BE LAZY.

                   2. second reason is that each county gets a certain amount of FUNDS alicated to do their flying looking for pot...THE
                   MORE POT THEY FIND.....THE MORE MONEY THEY GET...

                   SO DONT PLANT "GIVE AWAYS" as they are referred to...Big plots designed to draw attention from the several more
                   smaller plots around the given area. Only hurts you in the long run.

                   Now i read from a poster here that says he doesnt mind some of his plants being ripped off because it will ease his
                   paranoia...DO WHAT?????
                   Have you ever been ripped off man?? It fucking sucks royally
                   It is VERY VERY HEART BREAKING ...NOT TO MENTION THE fact that for months you thought you were the only
                   person in the world that knew where this treaseure was hidden...and then you find that you werent...first thought is
                   always that there are narcs watching you...very heart pounding....
                   tell me where your plants are cuz..I will remove them for you so you will not be so paranoid.

                   BUCKETS qare by far better than digging holes...MOBILITY.
                   If you keep your ears open a little you can find out a week ahead of time when they will be flying..it is usually second
                   week in august...so you remove all the large solar leavse from you plants and dont water them so they will droop
                   making them smaller and harder to spot from the sky. alos move some under trees so you reduce the size of the
                   patch..this is ALWAYS enough to avoid detection.

                   I hope i dont offend anyone here with this post but i just felt this should be posted. If i misunderstood your posts i


                   TOPIC - pink ladies
                   DATE - 06:57:49 6/05/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   My romulan mom often doesn'tproduce pink hairs but shedoes when she is happy. Pink hairs is an early indication that
                   I'm in for a great crop.

                   Loop Hole - First of all, a belated thanks for the specs on the UVB bulbs you were able to get. I've installed one of my
                   UVB tubes and the interesting thing is that all my girls are uneffected so far, except that the leaves are getting sparkly.
                   However, the male's new growth is shrivelling up. I think I will, unfortuantely, be moving it to a corner farthest from the
                   UV. I guess growing out a new batch of blueberry seedlings under high UV conditions and searching for new males will
                   be a project for the near future.

                   UVB bulb is a Philips TL 40W/12 RS UV-B Medical (made in Holland). It's now up to 10 minutes operation every hour
                   that the main lights are on. By the way, the breeding room is on a 7 day timer and is under a 16/12 lighting schedule
                   making for a 6 day week. One week in now. This is a small closet setup with most of the flowering plants in 2 gal
                   containers. The main blueberry mom and a severly hacked back grapefruit mom are still in their 3 gal pots, these were
                   both clone moms in a previous life. Other seed moms in closet include G13, romulan, UBC, and Bubbi's highest
                   yielding blueberry.

                   There is also a couple of kush plants that stood out enough to survive the previous tear down and tossing of genetics.
                   One was a kush special that was loaded with bright pink pistals and the other was a super kush that was a great
                   yielder. These last two are probably a waste of space but were revegged from the previous flower crop. They came from
                   the Seed Bank of Canada (Dave Freedom) and both turned out to be all female seeds of which about a 1/3 of their
                   siblings turned hermie and were culled within 3 weeks of flower. This will probably be the last crop of these two but out
                   of curiosity I just wanted to see how hermie the offspring of these two normal plants will be.



                   TOPIC - curious george
                   DATE - 04:32:51 6/05/99
                   FROM - 180
                   CG, i saw those bags too (the ones advertised as needing less water), they were camouflage print, too. i've also seen
                   that little watering unit (batt. op.). if you could somehow expand the reservoir on it, could be quite useful. you know
                   what would be the best of all though, would be a solar-powered watering system with battery backup. but it would have
                   to be cobbled together from available low-voltage parts, could be a big hassle unless you have ready access to
                   electronic hobby supplies. radio shack doesn't have everything you'd need...

                   i have used plastic (poly) bags once outdoors and found them very unsteady, easily capsized. a larger (5gal) size woul
                   undoubtedly be more stable, but depending on plant size of course.

                   the bit about the thief or thieves taking your patches one after another: AAAARRRRGGHH! thank god for indoor.


                   TOPIC - Pink hairs in Romulan crosses
                   DATE - 22:46:34 6/04/99
                   FROM - second
                   I have some that came out in Rom X I.S.S and Mikado X
                   Romulan. Flowered inside but taken outside, around May 15,
                   1999. Before going outside, flowers were looking like
                   typical indoor buds with about 3 weeks growth. Outside,
                   plants were still held at 12/12 and sometimes
                   10-9on/14-15off. One Mikado X Romulan has no pinks and buds
                   are fluffy with anything compared to what was printed in
                   magazine photos.
                   I hear when the plants are happy they put out their best,
                   real sunshine must make them SO FUNKIN GAY(term used to
                   denote 1950 American slang definition). VERY HA



                   TOPIC - Lucky?? Canada
                   DATE - 20:26:21 6/04/99
                   FROM - Thunderheart
                   Here is the headline and link.
                   ó Canada is quietly investigating the possibility of testing a marijuana inhaler being developed by a British company
                   that would help ease the pain of suffering patients but stop short of making them high.

                                                         Link: MSNBC


                   TOPIC - C.G.
                   DATE - 19:21:51 6/04/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   George Now knowing the punk ass thief and His habits unique to Him are a whole different ballgame! I'd go for his head
                   if it were personal, but then We open a whole different gammet of problems there too ie. narcing etc...
                   On those growbags that save h2o...IMO they are using those Osmicote(sp) pellets or is it the silicate 1's that SWELL
                   UP big and slowly release the h2o. If that's the case, I've seen it work well in potted plants and have wanted to try it
                   outside. Maybe I'll give it a whirl. Thats 1 thing about My local, I have endless farmland w/ creekbeds everywhere at My
                   disposal on thousands of acres of private land. Now if I could just find a partner to help Me w/ the labor and shut up at
                   the same time...Like that will ever happen! FYI, IMO partners=trouble/greed and broken friendships if there was 1 to
                   begin w/., never again for Me.


                   TOPIC - revegitation after flowering
                   DATE - 19:06:55 6/04/99
                   FROM - lihp67
                   how do I get plants to revegitate after they have been harvested from? they were in 12/12 for 9 weeks and the harvest
                   was good, so I was wondering how to keep them so I can have another harvest.


                   TOPIC - Foot-in-Mouth - Again, & more outdoors
                   DATE - 18:37:25 6/04/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   Oh boy ... here we go again. The brief how-to on "punji sticks" as a non-lethal way to protect patches seems to have
                   struck a nerve. The decision to use such means is an individual one, and any legal or karmic consequences that flow
                   from such use are entirely your own. Keep in mind that painfull consequences might be the karma debt of the thief.

                   I appreciate the concerns of those who complained about that part of my posting, and it might seem to be hypocritical
                   given my objections to the butane extraction posts, but they're both out of the bottle now, for better or worse.

                   When compared to other deterence methods that have been blown-up in the press, like fishooks strung at face level
                   and trip-wired guns ( both of which I've always though were stupid, extreme, and a pain in the ass ) punji-sticks are
                   comparatively mild and biodegradable. If you prefer to use other methods, go ahead ... leave the crap off the spikes, or
                   why not put little rubber balls over the points with a note that says "Please don't steal my weed!".

                   I've only resorted to using this method once, over a decade ago, because of repeated rip-offs at one particularly nasty
                   spot. And, I knew who was doing it! There was virtually no chance that an innocent person would have been anywhere
                   near this spot, hidden in many of acres of thorns and stinging nettles. They had found the general area of a series of
                   small patches and had ripped every one but this one last group of plants. I had absolutely no second thoughts about
                   doing it, and still don't.

                   I learned long, long, ago that the major benefits to be derived from outdoor growing are fresh air, sunshine, vigorous
                   exercise, and relative quiet. Any herb at the end of the season is a bonus. No one likes to get ripped, but it happens as
                   often, if not more often, than not. Get used to it ... herb does not neccessarily impart any special form of "higher
                   consciousness" on the user. Dirt-bags are a dime a dozen on this planet.

                   Actually, getting ripped for a piece of your crop can be a blessing in one respect: the bigger the crop, the bigger the
                   paranoia, the more severe the grab in the gut from tension and nervous exhaustion. You youngsters are welcome to it.

                   Never thought I'd consider "grow bags", but I came accross an item in a catalog yesterday that could make them a
                   viable alternative. It's called a "Plantsitter 30" and is designed to water your houseplants automatically. It holds 21 pints
                   in the reservoir, And ... it can be battery operated! The little blurb in the catalog said it has a choice of dripper flow rates
                   and a built-in timer, and incluides 30 watering spikes, 35 drippers, and 56 meters of waterline.

                   Anyone familiar with these things? The price ( $130 ) isn't too bad, though the relatively small capacity probably won't
                   handle too many plants. What kind of mix do you use in bags? Same as indoors, or some combination akin to soil?

                   It's much easier to find a sneaky spot if you don't have to worry about good soil and ready water. It's hard enough to
                   find good sun exposure sometimes. I saw an ad recently for a grow-bag made from some special material that they
                   claimed would reduce the amount of water used ... how can that be ?
                   Are there any advantages to bags over 5 gal. buckets?

                   .... Hope you all have a fine weekend.



                   TOPIC - vic
                   DATE - 18:14:27 6/04/99
                   FROM - Lady J
                   you have mail.



                   TOPIC - blazer,stix and vic
                   DATE - 17:24:45 6/04/99
                   FROM - loop_hole
                   Thanks for the AK info guys. Sounds like a keeper. Just grew out the AK mothers (have 5 females) and clones are
                   almost rooted. Will be an interesting crop though. Trying 4 new strains (25 mothers) in a new room, with a new setup
                   (aero) with water-cooled lighting (that Iíve never used before) with supplemented UV-b (that Iíve never done before). That
                   goes against all advice Iíve given out last year ;-).

                   Vic- Emeryís rom and your romberry definitely have a family resemblance, and the rom seems to be pretty dominant.
                   Even Emeryís rom/big is pretty rommie.
                   I talked a lighting guy in montreal to sell me a couple of the Uvb 4 foot tubes. Keep ya posted.



                   TOPIC - stix
                   DATE - 14:42:51 6/04/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   Thanks for the post on the AK. Mine is deffinately sativa dominate, but I'm getting some damn solid buds off her in less
                   than 60 days. The lower nugs are a little airy, but the real buds are SOLID. I had 2 of them this round that won't fit in a
                   qt. Mason jar due to thier diameter, such a lovely sight! They were a good 16 to 18 inches long and and easy 4 wide,
                   why can't I get ALL of them to turn out the same damnit!? I'm onna mission there, I'm no where near done w/ this gal.


                   TOPIC - ak47 and Sensi Star
                   DATE - 14:01:17 6/04/99
                   FROM - stix
                   Blazer Im doing the ak now too. I got two heavy sativa type females (out of 14 females)that were indeed spicy sweet
                   smelling. The others were not spicy at all and had more indica appearance with tighter buds. My favorite is the sativa
                   type but the indica type was so good I saved a mother from that group too.
                   Budm I think youre gonna like the sensi star, everyone Ive heard from/of has liked it. Its the best indica ive grown in
                   years. High is very active for a mostly-indica and its plenty potent. Taste runs from citrus-sweet to sour. Unfortunatly, in
                   mine, the more potent were the sour smelling ones. Not a real heavy yielder tho


                   TOPIC - Blue Heaven
                   DATE - 11:16:56 6/04/99
                   FROM - Toronto
                   I just ordered some Blue Heaven seed from Marc Emery. I would like to know of any experiences people have had with
                   blue heaven, ie: Yield, Potency, Height, ease of growing, flowering period, etc.

                   They will be growing in a 3.5' x 3' x 6' room in soilless mix, organic ferts under 400W MH for veg and 400W HPS for

                   Any and all info is appreciated.

                   In Peace.


                   TOPIC - Blue Heaven
                   DATE - 11:11:16 6/04/99
                   FROM - Toronto
                   I just ordered some Blue Heaven seed from Marc Emery. I would like to know of any experiences people have had with
                   blue heaven, ie: Yield, Potency, Height, ease of growing, flowering period, etc.

                   They will be growing in a 3.5' x 3' x 6' room in soilless mix, organic ferts under 400W MH for veg and 400W HPS for

                   Any and all info is appreciated.

                   In Peace.


                   TOPIC - a small prolbem
                   DATE - 08:30:27 6/04/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All,
                   Af has a Romberry in a 5 gal pot in its 5th week of 12/12, and for about the past ten days its like its growth has
                   "stalled", its now started to put on new growth, but this "stalling" has me puzzled, could it be a defiency?

                   Damion thanks for the report, Im looking foward to the Sensi Star, in the garden soon.

                   A great weekend to all;-))



                   TOPIC - 180, DrA
                   DATE - 08:15:51 6/04/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   You got it Bro! I remember mushroom hunting most every spring along the Mo. and Ks. river and inevidably stumbling
                   across faint paths. We'd follow any lil pathway rather it be looking for a new fishing/hunting spot or stumbling across
                   major game trails. You'd be suprised how many people You can stumble across when You think Your in the middle of
                   no where too. I've never cleaned any1 out, but I have helped Myself to a lil of some1's "well hidden" patch. Sadly around
                   here, there is soo much wild weed, Ya gotta be damn careful where You pick a hole. Nuthin like putting out wicked
                   clones only to be heavily pollenated by some rope plant. YUK! Choose carefully and plant 10 fold what You expect to
                   harvest, that's been My best bet anyhow. I'm grateful for today's HID's;)!
                   DrA My email is messed up, I'm trying to get back w/ You and I will.
                   Peace Folks, Blazer


                   TOPIC - ways i have found other people's patches
                   DATE - 05:48:43 6/04/99
                   FROM - 180
                   i have detected other people's "hidden" patches on NUMEROUS occasions. usually it's some amateur who doesn't
                   know male from fem plants, etc, but i have also found serious high-quality all female crops, too. this just from mtn
                   biking in remote areas and following the slightest odor or faint recent trail.

                   crawling under a thicket is a good idea, if you can avoid leaving an "obviously human" trail. taking a different route to
                   the grow each time is good; anyone who is observant can find your trail, even if it's very faint...the real key is to avoid
                   crushing plants with your feet, or breaking or bending stuff with your hands. you have to move your body around the
                   plants, instead of through them, and step on natural bare spots, stones, etc.

                   the ODOR of weed can reveal the best-hidden patch. sometimes you can even smell it driving along country roads, if
                   the patches are too close to the roadway. i would say you could detect a fragrant patch from distances up to 50 yds,
                   easy, if the wind is right. it's good to take prevailing winds into account when choosing a site. if you can put a ridge or
                   two between traffic areas and your patch, that's good. also, i would say that choosing a non-stinky strain is a gamble,
                   because outdoors, ALL weed stinks.

                   make sure you don't leave ANY equipment around; carry everything in a backpack with you (collapsible poly water
                   carriers). i have found people's watering buckets, etc. cops look for that kind of stuff.

                   if you think someone's been in your grow, explore it and the surrounding area THOROUGHLY: cops can leave infrared
                   surveillance cameras in grows they find, to try and catch the growers on film. afoafoaf was BUSTED in this fashion last
                   year, even though he removed the camera; they had already gotten pics of him before he discovered and removed the
                   camera, so they busted him AND demanded return of the camera; DOH!!!

                   if you think ANYONE has been in your patch, you really should "write it off"; harvesting it could get you caught
                   redhanded, whereas if you leave it for the cops, you walk free.
                   freedom is worth more than any amount of weed :-)
                   needless to say, any booby trap is additional evidence against you, additional provocation for your accusers (hmm,
                   "cultivation" or "attempted murder", you choose), and possibly an opportunity for a very unfortunate moment of
                   absentmindedness (DOHDOHDOH!!!) on your part. and the karma thing, yep!

                   best wishes to all intrepid outdoor growers! :-)


                   TOPIC - punji sticks
                   DATE - 20:47:24 6/03/99
                   FROM - hmmm
                   Are those Thai or Cambodian?


                   TOPIC - outdoors? hedge your bets
                   DATE - 19:53:33 6/03/99
                   FROM - drA
                   what with pests and thieves, bringing an outdoor crop to harvest requires some luck, too. we can outwit animals and
                   insects, or kill them if we must, but outwitting the 2-legged snakes is a different story and deliberately harming them is
                   a sure way to get the maximum penalties for growing dope as well as attempted murder. i learned the hard way that
                   the meaning of guerilla gardening is to put a few plants in as many out-of-the-way places as you can find. so, besides a
                   couple of raised soil beds that are planted with schwag that the thieves can have if they find it, i also filled a bunch of
                   grow bags with vic's super soil and put the good stuff in places where people aren't likely to go. CG and mighty mite
                   have already made those points, swamps with lots of bugs are good; patches of obnoxious plants, like poison ivy or
                   stinging nettles or brambles or pricker bushes or whatever you've got will work, too. if you look hard enough, you'll find a
                   spot where the trail you leave is not readily apparent; i have one where i have to crawl on my hands and knees through
                   a thicket of young pine trees whose branches go all the way to the ground, nobody over 2' tall is going to see it!

                   you just have to realize that if you're going to grow outdoors someone is likely to find some of your plants (it's damned
                   hard not to blaze a trail in the course of caring for them), but they may not find them all. booby-trapping might satisfy a
                   thirst for vengeance, but you can bet that LEO will throw the book at you if anyone gets hurt.



                   TOPIC - Loop_Hole and the AK47, Punji sticks!?
                   DATE - 16:40:07 6/03/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   LH I'm finding soo many different descriptions of the AK from across the country. Some say its spicey and Mine
                   couldn't be any further from spicey, very sweet and pungent. I find that on My particular AK if I pinch her at the 4th node
                   in veg., she branches out into a nice shrub allowing the side shoots to catch up to the main. I flip the timers back when
                   she's 10-12 inches tall and she finishes at around 2 1/2 feet at the tallest, most about 2'. This is the part that throws
                   Me, all the gals are sister clones, twins if You will. Some of them looked ready at 50 days while others took up took
                   62, some yielded around 4 oz.'s and others about 2! I'm sure it's all in the cloning/root development, but it still throws
                   Me and pisses Me off. LOL She clones very well/easily. Over all a very vigorous/lovely plant IMO and everyone I've
                   gotten cuts too agree. Sorry it took so long to report, I missed Your post earlier.
                   Punji Sticks to protect Your grow? I can understand wanting to kill a thief in Your home or yard, but over a weed that
                   obviously wasnt hidden well enough to begin with? I know LEO would love stumbling across 1 of those and slapping
                   attempted man slaughter or the like on Ya. I can't believe You rode Me about making oil and internet instructions while
                   You post "How too's" on maiming people! What kinda school of thought You on Man? Itsa kharma basher at the least.
                   Blaze Out


                   TOPIC - punji sticks
                   DATE - 16:38:26 6/03/99
                   FROM - occam
                   On your own property? Not even. Besides the bad kharma, you could expect one f*ck of a law suit, and other way cool
                   legal fun.


                   TOPIC - on another note... thanks m.g.
                   DATE - 14:11:14 6/03/99
                   FROM - stonerg
                   for the cold water separation instructions.


                   TOPIC - punji sticks
                   DATE - 14:10:10 6/03/99
                   FROM - stonerg
                   Talk about fucking up your karma! I dunno... maybe, maybe on your own proprety.



                   TOPIC - re: to shaggy and all
                   DATE - 09:17:19 6/03/99
                   FROM - Damion
                   hello everybody, got back from vacation in A'dam last week. Shaggy, I went to the Hempworks the day before I left and
                   Adam was not around! My apologies for not doing it in the beginning of the week but I was playing a high energy tour
                   guide for the benefit of my travel companions and it slipped my mind until the last day, once again my apologies. But I
                   had a wonderful time.
                   Favorites this time:
                   > Bluebird (Warlock, Red Hair, Super Polm Blonde H)
                   > Bulldog (Silver Haze, Nepal H)
                   > Grey Area (Yellow Cab)
                   > De Dampkring (Sensi Star)
                   > Homegrown Fantasy (Homegrown Fantasy Bio)
                   > Greenhouse (nl5xhazexmist)

                   I was a bit wasted all week so I can't give concrete reviews of each strain. However, out of about 35 varieties of grass
                   and 15 varieties of hash, the above mentioned were the shining stars. Peace


                   TOPIC - Thanks drA! Just what I had planed to do.
                   DATE - 09:10:57 6/03/99
                   FROM - Kenkeman
                   I decided that half of my stock with do in the ground while the rest will go in 5 gallon pots. I plan to dig two 6 x 9 foot
                   rectangles. Each about 18 to 24 inches deep. I plan to fill with sand, perlite, vermiculite, worm castings, cow manure,
                   and rich dark soil. About 9 plants fit in this area.

                   I really don't have problems with deer or rabits but I do have problems with leaf cutter ants and grasshoppers. In
                   Panama we have huge colonies of red leaf cutting ants that can terrorize your garden and destroy a patch like mine in
                   one night. You wake up the next morning only to find the main trunk sticking out of the ground and nothing more.
                   Destroying these colonies is not that easy. There are so many in other folk's land that the job can never be fully

                   I have learned that the best way to solve the problem is to place a special glue like paste around the base of the plant.
                   This way they never make it up the plant and no harmfull pesticides are used. This doesn't solve the problem of the
                   grasshoppers though. We get huge tropic grasshoppers with insatiable appetites. With these you have to resort to

                   Any other hints as to what I can do to ensure a safe and complete harvest would be appreciated. By the way, out of the
                   55 seeds I germinated 50. All of them look robust. The first leaves are showing so today they go under the floros. They
                   should be there for two weeks and then they hit the great outdoors...

                   Fumen mucha motta y disfruten la vida!



                   TOPIC - Curious G
                   DATE - 08:54:58 6/03/99
                   FROM - sb
                   "punji sticks"
                   WTF !!! Infecting people with human feces is unconscionable!
                   Now, if you happen to want to booby trap your own private and properly posted land, go for it.
                   If I find booby traps on public land the person who set them will wish that LEO had found them first.
                   Not to be an asshole, but I VIOLENTLY disagree with the premise.



                   TOPIC - curious george
                   DATE - 08:46:58 6/03/99
                   FROM - cedartop
                   george not trying to be rude, but man you struck a nerve when you talked about "punji sticks" brother what if a kid is
                   playing in the woods and runs one through his foot or calf? don't get me wrong i think a punk who would rip of smoke
                   deserves much grief, but no bud is worth hurting someone innocent.
                   you're right about the hair worked in fla years ago.
                   not trying to get on anyone's nerves here, or trying to insult anyone. we have many kids that play in the woods in my
                   area and i remember first hand what kind of damage can be done with punji sticks.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 22:51:20 6/02/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   I was just boiling weed that had been taken down from a friend's hydro grow before adequate flushing. He thought he'd
                   discovered a rat and panicked.

                   Otherwise, the only reason I boil cannabis is to make butter. I do, tho, get better results with butter if I boil the
                   weed/shake/whatever in water for a half-hour before adding the butter.


                   TOPIC - Deer, Rabbits, and other Critters ...
                   DATE - 22:36:32 6/02/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   Refreshing to see some outdoor growing posts recently ... it must be the season. The bar of soap bit for repelling deer
                   might work. I've used it on occasion, but have more confidence in two other methods. One way is to string lengths of
                   monofiliment fishing line around your patch, at about three feet off the ground. 8 - 10 lb test will do the trick. Deer are
                   active in nocturnal or low-light conditions, and they don't like walking into things that can't see. Sounds strange, but it
                   works. The "natural" way to discourage these pests, and rabbits too, is borrowed from the Native Americans, who used
                   it to protect their corn. Go to an old, neighborhood type barber shop, the kind where they don't wash the customers
                   hair, and ask for a bag of cuttings that have been swept off the floor. Works like a charm, and is good mulch as well !
                   Just put a 1 ft. circle around the base of each sprout.

                   Using blood meal outdoors is an invitation to dogs and other critters to dig your plants up. To a lesser extent, bone
                   meal can have the same effect ... .

                   Two legged critters are another story entirely, and not so easily dissuaded. Best to use areas that have large numbers
                   of "little friends" to help guard your crop ... Clouds of blood-thirsty mosquitos are always welcome growing partners!
                   Just make sure to pack a bunch of repellant for yourself, and use it Before you hit the bushes ... !

                   There are at least two weedy plants whose presence can indicate good growing conditions: Giant Ragweed is one, and
                   it only grows in well-drained, soft, fertile soil. If you see old ragweed stalks that are 2 1/2 inches 3 1/2 around, you have
                   ground that can grow lots of herb. The other is Stinging Nettle ... which is a nasty little bugger that causes short term
                   "itch-weed" or poison ivy symptoms when it gets on bare flesh.

                   One solution to persistant or serious bunny problems, where the little buggers hop a fence in broad daylight to feast on
                   plants, is a Rabbit Removal Unit ... .22 caliber. They are much less of a problem in remote areas where there is better
                   balance in the critter population .. and more predators.

                   If you Do create a trail through the vegetation, which is Real hard not to do ... you might as well booby-trap it in a
                   low-tech, non-lethal way : Get some wooden dowels at a hardware store .. not too thick .. they should be a little
                   flexible. Sharpen both ends with a knife or other device, and then make one end Very sharp with sandpaper and harden
                   it over a flame of a gas stove ... be careful not to burn it ... just a slow scorch will harden... then take the sharper point
                   and smear it with human feces. Darken the shaft and mottle it's color by rubbing it with some dirt. Plant these "punji
                   sticks" along the path at a little less than a 45 degree angle pointed in the direction from which the pirates will be
                   coming. When properly placed, along a narrow, brushy paths through the bush, they are almost invisible, hurt like hell,
                   and can cause a nasty, well deserved, infection.

                   I wish there was some way to enlarge the type of this message board. It's Really difficult to read.

                   Take care .....


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 21:24:53 6/02/99
                   FROM - t2
                   i think it should here-to-fore be known as the cold water separation process


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 21:23:01 6/02/99
                   FROM - t2
                   the cold water extraction method is really not an extraction in the scientific sense.it works on the theory of gravity. the
                   weed is chilled so the trichomes will separate better from the pulp in the blender.after you strain off the pulp, the green
                   matter stays suspended in the water but the trichomes sink.


                   TOPIC - thanks mighty mite!!
                   DATE - 20:51:14 6/02/99
                   FROM - johnny greenleaf
                   thanks for the info :) glad i'm not wasting my time with the mighty mites.... the mighty mite strain seems to be a pariah
                   in that not many people will admit to growing it. again, thanks for the info.


                   TOPIC - guerilla holes
                   DATE - 19:56:06 6/02/99
                   FROM - drA
                   kenkeman, i have a lot of blue clay here about 16" down. i dig all the soil out in a 4x9 rectangle, turn over one spade
                   depth of clay and add sand, perlite and some sod from the top into the clay. then i fill the hole back in with a mixture of
                   the original soil, compost, cow manure, blood meal, bone meal, and make a raised bed, so i have about 32"-36" of
                   fertile, loose soil. this size hole supported six 6' plants last year with weekly feedings.

                   budm, those 5-gallon grow bags measure 10" in dia and 12" high. the 5-gallon pails i've seen (leftover joint compound)
                   are bigger than that, i don't know if those are the size you are contemplating or not.

                   kq, i've always liked my nonpolar solvents, but the prospect of using hot, acidified water is intriguing. i don't know much
                   chemistry, but i recall the classic ether/acid extraction that supposedly changes reg'lar old thc into delta-9-thc, which
                   is more pyschoactive, maybe the heat and acid in water do the same thing?


                   TOPIC - KQ, cov, Helpin'Rob, 180
                   DATE - 19:33:33 6/02/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   KQ You left out Your opinion of the product produced there Amigo. Have You tried this 1 yet? T2 seems to diggit so I
                   better break out the blender it sounds like;)
                   *cov The wheels are still tight and rolling. Where do I look 4 Ya? Irc still? I'll be looking.
                   *Helping Rob Thunderheart is correct. But I say the more LUMENS the better! Heat is Your limiting factor there I bet. I
                   just know from experience that stepping up the wattage w/ aircooled hoods has made BIGGER BUDS and much more
                   density. Not only more lumens, but more penetration too. OH and if hieght is limited. a/c'd hoods let Me drop the lights
                   on the gals heads, 3 inches away from the bulb w/o any problems here. More $, but it pays off IMO. Like I always
                   say...soo many ways to do practically the same thing;) It's a damn weed!LOL
                   180 I found that email. Some reason england took several days to deliver a few emails, that I don't get!


                   TOPIC - cold water extraction for stonerg
                   DATE - 17:29:44 6/02/99
                   FROM - m.g.
                   i copied from the net a while ago...HTH

                   One handfull trim, 1 cup ice, in a chilled blender. Add water to about half full. Pulse at low speed for a minute or so, let
                   stand for a few minutes untill it settles down,
                   carefully scoop out most of green mashed up crap with a small strainer. Strain liguid into a big jar or whatever (a cone
                   shaped glass or metal cone with a petcock at the bottom would be ideal). Strain the liquid thru a strainer, then a "gold
                   coffee filter" like you can buy for a Krupps or Braun coffee maker. I strain 5 or 6 blender loads into a 1 gallon jar - you
                   can pour off half the liguid as it settles out - you should be able to see the white or golden trichomes accumulating at
                   the bottom of the jar. Decant off most of the liquid, or siphon off with a vinyl tube, like racking off home brew from the
                   fermentation bucket. Finally, pour the stuff that contains the pollem thru a paper coffee filter. If you had a cone-shaped
                   rig with a petcock, you could just draw off the hash containing liquid at the bottom. Be sure to rinse the jar into the filter
                   paper. Let dry and wallah! you have pure trichomes. If you have enough
                   you can press it into hash, but the trichomes are more stable when left uncrushed - absolutely will be the
                   best hash you ever smoked.


                   TOPIC - resin, water, and THC
                   DATE - 16:46:10 6/02/99
                   FROM - stonerg
                   trelaway, you seem happy with the boiled herb. The idea is that you've got some shwag mexi or something, right? I'm
                   going to be running out of herb soon, and it looks like the mexicali blues for me, and maybe I'll try that. What did you
                   mean, though, by the "hash-ice cube thing?" I assume it's some way to get the really water soluble stuff into cold water
                   while getting the cannabinoidinal-type compounds into a water-water extraction, and then making hash?... wild.



                   TOPIC - Blazer
                   DATE - 14:44:57 6/02/99
                   FROM - cov
                   Hey Blazer...long time no see...wondering how your wheels are :) find me online if your up for it-



                   TOPIC - 180
                   DATE - 10:54:36 6/02/99
                   FROM - KQ
                   Thanks for noticing! Resin vs water? well, there would be quite a few variables here. Even the size of the resin head
                   makes a difference (volume vs surface area) if there is any diffusion going on. Also time factor. The longer, the more it
                   can saturate the water solution. Temperature is undoubtedly important here, also the pH of the water. There is some
                   dude over at the Lycaeum chats that claims to extract his stuff very nicely in acidified H20. I can find no hard evidence
                   for this, but he claims to be getting his college degree in chemistry. There may be something to this.

                   I do not know how to test the "thc in the tissues" theory. I guess you could strip the skin off of some twigs and
                   branches to get all the exterior trichomes off, then do an extraction with some good solvent or make tea like stonerg
                   did! This is a very stimulating idea 180! Thanks.

                   We've only been told THC is not water soluable, now I'm finding refernces and anecdotes that support otherwise. I have
                   no personal knowledge of this cuz I still got adequate nonpolar solvents!!


                   TOPIC - KQ
                   DATE - 05:28:33 6/02/99
                   FROM - 180
                   on the THC solubility thing: that's some isolated or extracted form of thc, right? we know from experience that the resin
                   itself is not water soluble to any major degree in room temp water....

                   this leads me back to a question i've pondered in the past: how much of the plant's thc is in OTHER parts, i.e., not in
                   the resin glands on the outside of the plant? if you soaked the weed at room temp to extract the chlorophyll, etc, was
                   there thc IN THE PLANT'S TISSUES that was extracted by this method, or was resin actually dissolving? we know
                   from experience that higher temps WILL dissolve resin, but i'm wondering what thc yield you would get in the water at
                   room temp....just food for thought :-)


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 23:14:30 6/01/99
                   FROM - KQ
                   Stonergy and Trelaway, the solubility if thc is 0.28 g/100 mL at 23 C. Thats over a quarter gram per about 1/2 a
                   cup-o-water! No wonder you were blitzed!

                   http://www.chemfinder.com/ and do a search on thc


                   TOPIC - vic
                   DATE - 20:59:11 6/01/99
                   FROM - cedartop
                   thanks for your quick response to my question.


                   TOPIC - Help for Rob
                   DATE - 20:23:54 6/01/99
                   FROM - Thunderheart
                   I have grown in a similar configuration as the 3 x 2.5 as you mentioned, but i had no height constraints. I think you
                   could get excellent results with a 400W HID as Budm mentioned, but a 250W would work as well. I find that if i have a
                   low wattage light source, i don't get as intense about expanding my operation. I still have the urge to grow in a huge
                   area, but it is just not safe for me. A small closet will suffice.

                   As for strains, you will need to be picky, as your height is very low. Remember the light souce could take take almost
                   a foot off of your height, as well as the 8-16" buffer between the source and plants. This gives about 3ft of plant/pot
                   room. Very short indeed! Pick an indica and bend and train it as much as possible. Do check over at weedbase, as
                   ChaCal is an expert on this.



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 19:15:44 6/01/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   stonerg--That's interesting about the water getting u stoned. I figure yer right, that the warm water loosens the crystally
                   shit and some falls off. The person who's message I got the idea off of does the ice-cube in a blender hash thing to
                   collect the stuff outta what you drank.

                   I have to admit I was really surprised when i got stoned off of the boiled pot. I did another batch for an hour. It took two
                   days under a ceiling fan to dry out but the smoke was easier to take and I got really baked.

                   Just made a pound of shake butter--yeah!!!!


                   TOPIC - Mighty Mite x skunk
                   DATE - 18:16:08 6/01/99
                   FROM - Mighty Mite
                   Johnny Green thums:

                   The potency of the mighty mite would be above average. When the seeds were purchased, a friend of our had paid alot
                   of money for some bubbleberry's, and they did not turn out near as good as our MM x SK. I found the plants to have an
                   extreme amount of odor in the early stages of life, and turn unbarible after they began to flower. The plant turns really
                   resinus, coated with thc crystals, and when you purn the plant, your fingers become coated in finger hash. For
                   outdoors, it seems to be fairly potent. The early flower charactoristic puts the plant into heavy flowering during the
                   hotest month in the summer which must increase the potency and yeild of the bud. Often the bud stems break in half
                   over the weight of the single cola bud! Yee-Haw! I would highly recommend any Mighty Mite strain for the outdoors. I
                   have had nothing but sucess with my strains.
                   Its pure indica by the way.



                   TOPIC - seeds mailorder
                   DATE - 18:01:59 6/01/99
                   FROM - cynkatt
                   i wish to know specifically
                   THE top three seeds u sell
                   and any other more private details i
                   should kno via email thx



                   TOPIC - boiling herb
                   DATE - 15:37:41 6/01/99
                   FROM - stonerg
                   Trelaway - I used to boil herb too - until I drank the water and was baked for about 24 hours. That made me think twice.
                   Now what I do is soak it in a coffee filter in cold water for 2 days or so then discard the water.
                   I told a chemistry guy about this and for whatever reason, he said that made sense, and that boiling causes thc to
                   become sort of, kind of, water soluble?
                   I dunno; its just my experience. I love the coffee filter and the cold water for pre-hash prep -- though I just played around
                   with the butane and was impressed, probably don't need to soak the herb at all, though I'm starting to wonder if I
                   should have used the PVC for the pressure (I was being cautious) it would create because my yield seemed a little
                   low. Like I said trelaway, this advice is worth what you paid for it, haha. Take it easy everybody...


                   TOPIC - Rob & Kenkeman
                   DATE - 07:51:56 6/01/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All,
                   Rob- afoafs veg closet is a/b that size he uses a 400mh in that space, they run about 140usd complete with everthing
                   needed in kit form, and the 400watt kit, is only about 10usd more than a 250watt kit, and you will be glad you went with
                   the 400 when it comes time to flower,that will give ya about 65watts per sq ft, dense flowers for sure. IMO execpt for a
                   Mom cabinet, indoor cultivation life starts at 400. As for beans, the RSB are a good choice, af has some going now in
                   there 6th week veg, and they appear to look very suitable for a small closet, also
                   Romberry is a great choice. Abbys Indoor Gardining is a great place for supplies, there light kits are great quality, at
                   great prices. The link is at the BCGA main page.HTH

                   Kenke- You may want to inquire at Weedbase's, "outdoor" fourm, about the gurilla "holes", there are some seasoned
                   veteran gurillas there for shure, to help you out.



                   TOPIC - Germination report!
                   DATE - 07:21:40 6/01/99
                   FROM - Kenkeman
                   Placed a propagation tray over the ballasts of my floros and on the first day I germinated 33 out of 55. Another 10 to 15
                   should start by tomorrow. Jack Flash, Peak 19 and Romberry led the pack with 2 of 3 cali orange and 2 of 3 Ingamar's
                   punch coming of age.

                   I just realized that I don't have enough room for everybody to grow in my garden without attracting wandering eyes. The
                   rest will go guerilla style.

                   About how deep should I make the growing hole? The soil where I intend to plant is high in clay and I must dig a rather
                   deep hole so I can fill it with soil and ferts.

                   Later amigos!




                   TOPIC - torog
                   DATE - 05:33:13 6/01/99
                   FROM - 180
                   Torog, the greensand is often used for roses, to enhance their bloom and make them more resistant to pests. it is
                   usually used in combination with rock phosphate. the only problem is, both of them tend to be slow-release, so they
                   should not be your only source of these nutrients (water on something quicker-acting). i don't know of anyone using
                   hort. charcoal, nor have i heard how it's used. i assume it would serve to absorb and buffer, but not sure...


                   TOPIC - Rob
                   DATE - 05:27:20 6/01/99
                   FROM - binkie&fritz
                   Rob, check out the link for weedbase posted by vic below. SCW and cha cal have produced many informative posts
                   about small cabinet spaces.


                   TOPIC - Green Sand,Horticultural Charcoal
                   DATE - 05:25:05 6/01/99
                   FROM - Torog
                   Howdy-does anyone know if these two elements are good to put in an organic based mix with SunShine Professional
                   Growing mix-I bought them-might as well use it...thanks (ps growing indoors)


                   TOPIC - Help ?
                   DATE - 22:52:10 5/31/99
                   FROM - Rob
                   I have set up a contained grow closet about 3" Wide * 5" Tall * 2.5" Deep

                   Need advice on short potent affordable seeds and lighting for the closet.

                   The Strawberry blonde surprise and fighting cockarell both look good can anyone tell me the expected height and yild
                   for both?


                   TOPIC - crane
                   DATE - 22:09:43 5/31/99
                   FROM - Old Bud
                   You can use the bulb in a pinch and get 1 grow out of it. Be carefull the stem (glass above the base) is not as strong
                   as the u model so you need to add support at the end of the bulb. Use a piece of bare wire or shim stock and fasten to
                   the hood in a saddle shape.
                   Good luck

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