This is the archives from the BC Growers Message Board
TOPIC - Y2K
DATE - 11:34:28 1/01/100
FROM - testing
is this script compatible?
TOPIC - duhhhhhh
DATE - 19:35:35 12/31/99
FROM - High-
who's stoned ... not me
sorry
High
TOPIC - Check It Out
DATE - 19:31:38 12/31/99
FROM - High-see
rx
see if this helps trust me its a much better description than you'd get
out of me right now heh but Iguana boy gives it a
pretty thourough going over here "Lots of pretty pictures to go along with
it .. gotta love a cat that'll give you a multi
media description heh
take care -n- be safe all
heh after twelve -n- I'm still alive heh go figure
High-see
Link: scrog
TOPIC - Best description of "training"-n- scrog in general
DATE - 16:34:13 12/31/99
FROM - High-see
rx
heres the best description of scrog and Training .. better thanI could
whip up in my present condition heh. Iggy did it
right with this one. lots of pic's to illustrate ....Dang those buds look
yuuuuummie
hap hap happy New Year all
take care -n- be safe
High-see
Link: Iguanas place
TOPIC - proximity of buds to bulb(nexus)
DATE - 02:44:27 12/31/99
FROM - rx
under hps I have seen buds grow right up against the bulb before they burn.
One or two inches of clearance is all you
neeed if your circulation is good enuff. Direct the fan so it blows directly
over the tops. That's all I know.
TOPIC - high see - "vegatative training"
DATE - 02:37:59 12/31/99
FROM - rx
Dear High See - can you describe "vegatative training"? Do you pinch the
stem, where, how many laterals you you
permit?
TOPIC - Light & Scrog problems
DATE - 19:27:06 12/30/99
FROM - nexus
I put my scrog screen up today ,screen is w=2ft,l=6ft and 1 foot hight
from plants , they are under a 1k hps with
aircooled + light rail. The plants are 6 mr.nices and 4 c99s , well anyways
How far can i get my light to the plants
without buring them , see i have 2 feet from the screen to the light ,
that poses a real problem and I am puting them
intoflower in a couple of weeks and i dunno what to do?ALso they are in
a drip/nft system soo what do u think i can
yeild?
Also i just ordered a 1k mh and will be putting them in another room of
w- 5 1/2,l=6ft, and h=7 1/2 , feet i dunno what
the best way to make max yeild out of them i was thinking about setting
up a modualr v screen and how far does the
vertical screen have to be from the side of the walls also how far does
the vertical screen have to be from the light
without burning the buds? When growing them vertical up the screen when
do i put them into flower -when they are half
ways up the screen? Will be making a drip/NFT system with 7 gfws, I was
thinking how much yeild do u think i can get
out of the 1k mh room?
thanks
TOPIC - powdery mildew ...the mildew that ate cleveland
DATE - 19:19:35 12/30/99
FROM - sb
My experience with powdery mildew is a follows...
appears as small whitish powdery spots here and there.Generally in areas
of the grow with reduced airflow.
Seems harmless enough at first and doesn't really spread very fast until
you turn your back for a few days and
WHAM!!!!!!
All of the sudden you realize that the overall health of the grow is in
a spin... Your' flowering beauties are starting to
look like flocked x-mas trees.Yield suffers horribly and the pot that you
do harvest is pretty much a loss unless you're
really hard up...
1 tsp baking soda and 1 tbl veg oil to 1 gal of water sprayed over the
plants every week keeps the beast at bay but will
not irradicate it.
Neem oil will knock back a bad case quickly, but you should immediately
follow up with the soda/oil spray to keep it in
control.
In the last few days(oops, turned my back) I began to notice that the PM
was gaining a foothold again.I applied a
sulphur spray and as this product makes no claims of erradication, I'll
be sure to keep spaying once a week as a
pentence for inattention.
I'd like to hear others experiences
peace
sb
TOPIC - oyaeh
DATE - 10:31:23 12/30/99
FROM - oimaenclaytontnoe
thank you i would luv to. ifya still wantta.
restovyall-if i dont see yall for a coupla days ill be roiting yha and
laying in the softwintersun
on the pcnk basket.prolly
unless i dont iquess
antiriotous2, *
TOPIC - wakes
DATE - 09:07:09 12/30/99
FROM - claytontno
highyall,
hc-yeah thats happndt me fro.
cemosavvy wen't to texas
`
`
`
.
ifigure.
anyway, now, lets hava g00d l00K@thoseteeth.com[alil'oke]
thankx.
also, ive got some seeds that were a gift that i would like to donate to
the next auction too, and was wondering what
the "heck" oer doen. kickitup?
don't have any fun,
*
*
_*
TOPIC - Lets try that link one more time
DATE - 06:45:25 12/30/99
FROM - High-see
sorry bout that I dont know why it didnt post the first time but here ya
go ... they have unbelievable deals on ballasts
84.24 prepaid like 100.00 if you dont prepay
Link: LIights, Lights -n- more LIghts
TOPIC - lighting
DATE - 01:27:29 12/30/99
FROM - rx
I only know what I read. My lighting experience is limited to a stationary
400w hps. My readings recomend at least
80w/sq.ft. Are you on the low end of that number? I am considering 400w
mps combo with 175mh. Something will have
to move. I may set the plants on a lazy susan.(INSPIRED BY HIGH SEE'S WHEELED
DOLLYS.) Good luck!
TOPIC - big apple
DATE - 19:45:28 12/29/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
try Vic`s main page, i`m sure he has a write-up on it. Pottasium Silcate,
and Sulfar comes to mind first. Yes it can
wipe out your crop fast! Look at Safers Soap products that treat powdery
mildew. Good luck.
TOPIC - powdery mildo
DATE - 15:16:34 12/29/99
FROM - manhatten
sorry about the spelling guys. can any one comment on powdery mildo problems..
can this take out your crop. is
benemyl the best product to use how do you apply it...I have been told
that locally thies is a seriou problem that many
gardeners encounter
TOPIC - Bad Ass deal on lights
DATE - 12:39:07 12/29/99
FROM - High-see
K guys y'all ignore my questions but I got something for you anyway
I lurks, I reads, I learns ,heh.
High-see
ohhhh gentleman farmer
I'm on the sound enhancement I read a thread bout it on another board of
the orriginal testing and they did sound
horrendously overblown but hey even a 50% increase wouldnt suck for 12.95
I think I like the little acoustice sound
generators that actually put that vibrations on the plant instead of in
the ambient sound ... wouldnt you like to get
pulses of 5000 hz multitracked -n- off layered ala motivational and sleep
learning hmmmmmm I wonder...
be safe all
High
Link:
TOPIC - Peaceness
DATE - 07:57:30 12/29/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
On your flood i`m told after the roots have poked out of the slab rw to
go to flooding 4 times during lights on for 1/2hr.
each time and only 1/4 the way up the rw slab or block. During lights out,
may-be once. Sounds like twice a day is
good enough now until the roots go searching and are poking out all over
the place.
I have used flock rw before and found it really throws your PH around alot.
I had to always ajust ph then have to flush
the girls from the top with lots of corrected ph`ed water. I ended up buying
a watering wand and hooked it up to the
pump to do the job quicker. Pain in the ass, but may-be they have changed
it by now, that was about 4.5 years ago.
On the sponge inserts for the mesh baskets, um it is very light weight,
about 5/8 thick, not as dense as carpet
underlay. It floats very easy. A good grow shop should be able to get it,
as for something else that might work like it, i
would be careful of what it is made from. You do not want anything leaching
out or reacting with the nutrs. and effecting
the girls.
TDS is showing what?? Holy fck man thats high, go by what your plants are
looking like, if they show burn on the
bloom end well flush her out and drop the ppm. I think may-be that the
bloom has been running longer than the veg and
thats why it`s showing signs of fert burn. Your nutrs. are a bit high with
the amounts that you showed us imho. Here is
a good way to use your TDS, ajust your first fresh batch of nutrs so that
when replenishing your res. with half strength
nutrs the ppm will not rise until the 6 day then replenish again on day
6 with straight water and on day 7 if ppm rises
again it`s time to flush everything out of the res. and start with a fresh
batch. ie: start with fresh batch at say 1400 ppm
and replenish res. each day with 700ppm The res should stay stable at 1400
until you get to the end of the week and
then when you replenish with straight water and the next day the ppm still
rises above 1400 then you know the girls are
drinking more water than nutrs, and should be flushed. The trick is to
find that first ppm strength and keep it there so it
will last a week. Some people go 2 wks before flushing, replenishing the
res every day with just straight water! Your
call dude!--- If ppm goes down the next day or within a couple of hrs.
then you know that the girls are hungry and
should try a bit stronger nutrs. if ppm rises then they are too full and
just drinking water and producing too much salts,
quite easy really.---
TOPIC - TDS
DATE - 21:22:51 12/28/99
FROM - Peaceness
Ok, just pulled out my TDS pen, which i have not used in a while. first
tested distilled water and it came out at 60. i
then did my nutrient water and it came out at over 2000. the veg and bloom
tables showed levels of over 2000, yet the
veg are not showing any burns from over fertilization. what's up?
-Peaceness
TOPIC - Your opinions please.
DATE - 21:09:17 12/28/99
FROM - Peaceness
hi guys,
have been doing a lot of regards to a few projects.
those that are using rockwool soely as a medium, in an ebb n flow:
how often do you flood the table, and for how long? (i am currently waterig
the plants in 2 cycles, 12 hours apart for a
duration of 30 minutes each cycle. Thus the table gets flooded for a total
of 1 hour each day.)
My concern is that i hear that one should flood the table 5-6 times per
day for about 20 mins each time. will i get better
growth watering more often, or just more waterlog? using my current watering
cycle, my plants do not get to dry and
droop.
also, i am at 3 weeks of flower and my gh nute ratio is: (ml per gallon)
micro:5
grow:5
bloom:12
I am starting to get yellowing with brown tips of some leaves(middle leaves).
also the leave tips are SLIGHTLY burned.
i am not sure that the nutrient is too strong though. my p.h. is at 5.8.
Other than that, they are doing fine.
Vic High:
Brother, can you tell me anything about your chemo x g13 cross. am looking
for something that would do well in sea of
green or supper cropped? what about yield and internode length?
Gentelemans Farmer.Are you talking about that spongy hydro medium that
looks lke the stuff they lay under carpets?
will be doing some side by side tests with rockwool flock i 5" baskets(aeroflo).
do you have any exp. using it this way
against rocwool or leca stone?
rx, what up guy? I still have a few days till i go and buy my system. am
thinking about lining up (4) 3 x 3 ebb n flows=
36 sq. ft. And having that lit by (2) 1000 watters on light movers. in
otherwords 1-1000 watt will be moving over (2) 3X3
table. i figured that this would be bettter than havig an 8x4 table covered
by the same lighting on lightmovers. whatch
y'all think?
Lighting: have heard of the great deals on lighting up in canada. does anyone know of a place that will ship to the u.s.?
-Peaceness
TOPIC - That 5K Vibe ...
DATE - 19:17:11 12/28/99
FROM - C.G.
Gentleman & rx :
You're both probably close to the mark ... I found time to go through most
of those links, and many of those claims
certainly sound grandiose at best, if not outright Looney Tune. One thing
I found disturbing was a reference to gibrillic
acid as one of the constituents of the foliar spray. Sounds like an invitation
to "stretch".
However, there might be a nub of truth hiding in there. I think a search
of the patent records might prove very interesting
... .
Then again, the cost of the smallest unit and concentrate for 32 Gal. of spray isn't all that outrageous.
A test using just the taped sounds could be instructive, and fairly simple
for someone with an established grow and
good records.
One of those links has a similar "grow tape" for only $12.95 plus shipping.
Anyone want to give it a shot?
Just curious.
TOPIC - rx
DATE - 18:03:10 12/28/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
700% bullshit i say!! If that was the case everyone and his dog would have
been doing it before now! If it`s to good to be
true, it is! Every farmer west of the pecos would be blasting tunes to
their crops, helicopters flying everywhere blasting
the tunes, Nam all over again LOL! Not that i don`t think that is has some
effect on the girls but 700%, give me a break!
That is the only down fall with the net, anyone can put a phd. beside their
name and write a paper and say it`s true.
Seeing, not reading, is believing!
TOPIC - combo hps + mh
DATE - 15:07:01 12/28/99
FROM - rx
Vic and Peaceness - have you considered combining hps and mh in series
- e.g. two hours of hps then two hours of
mh, and so on. I'm following your dialoge with great intrest.
TOPIC - 5kmz (mozart effect)
DATE - 15:00:13 12/28/99
FROM - rx
c.g. - that sounds too good to be true (700%).with a boost like that, who
needs co2? are you going to try it?
TOPIC - ground
DATE - 14:39:35 12/28/99
FROM - uh-clem
theres something in thea way i havent noticed as much until lately , ceemz
we keep ossing tween eart &sky and so it
makes it easier ta see, and any way then you get this "Firesign Theatre"
effect mixed wiht , and ya cannot see em
because its on a record , has any one evr listened to "I Think We're All
Bozos on this Bus?" (some janes luv-it)
now i dont mean to, but sometimes im one of those s and ask ya ..forget.
iwant to sometimes. tha devil must advocat,
and still,, isnt theare something in thea ground, reaching deeper, maybe?
certainly more mediate cause of phaze of the
saeled bix. 0yaea, anyway, cause i didnt come here_~ looking for friends,
i combed to learne.. &ya got something that
helqs,,? and we all doe, athen i dont care what ur charavtar r .
if ya can say it so I can hear it-clearestfunenuf.rockmon&off..
im wantto start the greatest company on earth, (clownosesjanes' visionary
spectacles $2.00)., doevr4 the sky *., ande
letting eve3ryone be evr they r. which as we noe now is hoestory.wichoestand.
you made me, i new
notheingprtemucho. and of coarse, you can destroy-me or , anudge d'janed
will maybe doit if ima wake. wanyway,for
tha happy franklyfree individuals this place encourages I alwwys go here_~
ta see thea other cranks and soak it up^.
*notice: all jane sights (imaen sites) r grraaeto ..
ra, claysparrow
TOPIC - aero filters
DATE - 07:44:16 12/28/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
dr evil the filters are clean-able and are before the pump not after. Look
for them at pipe dreams.com And as irish was
saying, sponge tops are the best imho. I have tried them with the 5in baskets
and 1in. rw cubes and i an amazed at
the growth of roots compared with the traditional rw/leca combo, i have
them side by side and seeing is believing! The
1in. cube is suspended in the 5 in. basket hanging from the sponge, i thought
that the weight on the now wet cubes
might pull them down but no problem so far and the stalk is just getting
thicker so i can`t see a problem with that this
time. But 1 or 2 in. baskets when using rw cubes would assure you that
this would not happen. I`m going to a aero way
of cloning and not using any rw or leca rock, just feed the roots to the
deer and make oil out of the leaves and stalk and
smoke the rest! Gotta love it!! And if you are into the stadium effect
the 1 in baskets would allow you to turn the
baskets 160 degrees and back with out tugging on your roots so much as
with a 5 in. Mind you, if done right the roots
will intertangle with each other and form a trampoline type of mat of roots
lifting off the bottom of the pipes or gutters
and forming a more true aero set-up with the water running underneath the
roots back to the res. Again seeing is
believing!
TOPIC - Trade???
DATE - 19:19:03 12/27/99
FROM - high-see
reading the archives I notice a couple of us are/were building new or upgrading
older systems.
would anyone be interested in trading a 400w hps or son-agro for 15" NEC
flatscreen multisync used three weeks
before I got a screaming deal on a 17" so its just been hanging round ever
since Email @ nuniabiz@operamail.com
Occam
pseudoscience heh ...luv it
Thanks all hope y'all had a great yule -n- merry ho ho ho
Laters
High-see
TOPIC - Sound influence on plant growth - more info.
DATE - 18:04:58 12/27/99
FROM - C.G.
There has been some discussion here in the past about the influence of
music on plant growth. Most of the information
we were able to find online, through search engines, focused on variations
of "The Mozart Effect".
There is a recent post on cannabinoid.com with a great deal more information
in this regard. It's in the Advanced
Growing section, post # 12787. There are several links included, and a
brief tour of those sites was Quite interesting.
Evidently, the 5000 Hz frequency does the trick, and in conjunction with
foliar feeding, results in some remarkable
yields.
Take a look, check it out, and report back.
Santa brought me a dose of the flu for Christmas. Joy to the World!
TOPIC - gentlemans farmer re: aero tables
DATE - 04:37:56 12/27/99
FROM - irish
my friend has some nft gutters that accept only the small 1" (he says two
inch) cups. the holes are 1 7/8" in diameter,
shaved out to about 1 15/16" so the cups SNAP in. they are able to hold
a three foot plant. the holes are on six inch
centers. maybe i will try to post some pics on overgrow or cannworld, when
i do i will post a link.
all that my friend uses are the 1" rockwool cubes or the oasis cubes, fits
'em in there. throws some rocks in the cup to
block the light, and watches em grow. so much less waste than the RW slabs
he was using. when the plant is done,
he trims away the roots, can recycle the cup, and the oddest looking trash
from this is 1" square piece of a root/cube
mix. not like the old 4" he used to try to toss out. the rest goes in compost.
rocks get boiled, resoaked and back in the
bucket for later.
since you had mentioned the foam, he was thinking of getting some of those
made, a bunch of 1" thick foam pads, slit
like a "C" shape to slide over and then slip in the cup. you could reuse
the ...um... "heck" out of them, less muss, cuts
out the rocks... all you have is compost.
couple that up to an aquaponic drip system, with some guano/organic meals
tea and you have great fish and chips
when you have the munchies...never need a grow shop again.
TOPIC - Hi All
DATE - 21:32:47 12/26/99
FROM - Anon
Loop: you have mail
Wadsworth: Unless you could point to something you "did" to the plant to
stress it into herming, I'd be inclined to dump
it, myself. Not a good idea to use it for breeding if it hermed on its
own, because it will pass its gender confusion on to
its offspring. On the other hand, if it is a result of stress, some would
call it useful for breeding all female seeds. I don't
argue that, but as Mr. Soul has pointed out before, those seeds should
not be used for breeding, for the reasons
mentioned above. HTH
Gentleman Farmer: Are the aero filters you mentioned cleanable? If not,
it would be my guess that the expense of
repeatedly changing them would offset any benefit gained by flooding the
areo tubes with organics, especially since it
is liable to wash particulates out of the tubes slowly and continuously
for a long time after application. I suppose you
could add a fluid bed type filter directly after the tubes, or put in a
couple of different stages of filters that could be
cleaned ahead of the small particle aero filter. I'm a fan of the aero
style, but I think it would be incompatable with
aquaponics, which is the type of setup I'm starting on. I think bacterial
slime would plug any misters used.
Vic: What do you suppose you'd get crossing an IBL with an unrelated F1.,
such as bubblegum and romberry
(rombubbleberry?). I'm not sure what the distribution of traits is supposed
to come out like in such a case. Any ideas. I
know how this is supposed to work in a f1 or f2 cross, but not this. Any
ideas?
Well, Happy New Yields everyone
TOPIC - Merry Christmas Stoners!
DATE - 20:36:17 12/25/99
FROM - Wadsworth
One of my romberrys is going hermie. Should I chop it now or is the pollen
worth keeping? Also at what point should
pollen be collected from a male?
d;^)-~
TOPIC - feliz navidad!
DATE - 10:44:58 12/25/99
FROM - m.g.
and a merry new year...
TOPIC - Vic High
DATE - 10:02:54 12/25/99
FROM - oldtimer1
Just want to say thanks for making this space for us, have a good holiday!
All the best Ot1.
TOPIC - Vic
DATE - 07:36:31 12/25/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
---if ya want, i`ll help pack a tune on my shoulders come new years. Also
may-be that sooped up version of ahhh, that
sports car will be there if you show up, she wants me to just be her mechanic
not her driver!! LMAO!---See ya there?
TOPIC - aero-tables
DATE - 07:29:10 12/25/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
---looks like i`m on my own again lol! i was alone on the aeroponics a
few years ago, ( Shabang and Soul were trying to
help back then) no one was doing it yet and it was a learning curve! Will
let everyone know how things set up and how
it does. PS aero rocks over anything that i have come across, people are
just catching on now and are switching to
aero or at least hydro LOL! ( people that were chastizing me for not going
with good old soul, i mean soil!! LOL!)
---I also have thought of a way to add organics to the aero table with
out plugging up the misters using the KISS
method. After the girls have devolped a good root structure, say after
the 3 wk. in bud add another smaller seperate
res. (15 gals) and flood the table and the roots lol and have it return
to your orgaincs res. just plug off what drain you do
not want it to go into. The little bit that will be left in the bottom
of the table should be filtered out using the new filters
that they have come up with for the aero users. You should have the best
of both worlds.----What am i missing in this
picture?
---Merry Christmas all and a smokin new year!!
TOPIC - HAPPY HOLIDAYS
DATE - 04:58:39 12/25/99
FROM - irish
.....to all the mad scientists and the not so mad scientists.
thank you for this past year, looking forward to the next millenium (well,
part of it anyway...LOL) with all of you.
and who knows... if santa brings me a brain, i may have something to share with all of you...
happy holidays, and many sweet harvests for all
TOPIC - Merry Christmas All
DATE - 01:33:56 12/25/99
FROM - Anon
Hi all,
Just wanted to wish everyone happy holidays.
Loop: still looking at the list, trying to determine exactly what I want
(too many choices!) I'll drop you a line sunday.
TOPIC -
DATE - 19:25:35 12/24/99
FROM - sb
Vic and the bcga crew
Happy holidays to you all!
Cheers
sb
TOPIC - stay safe
DATE - 19:17:35 12/24/99
FROM - loop
Merry xmas all,
Hope everyone has a safe and healthy grow in 2k
TOPIC - water
DATE - 19:00:29 12/24/99
FROM - puffer
I'm starting up a small grow cabinet, 2-3 plants tops. I
was wondering how many gallons of water I should use. I want to change
water as little as possible - 2 or 3 weeks.
THanks
TOPIC -
DATE - 16:02:45 12/24/99
FROM - la.bud
merry christmas vic and all!!!
TOPIC - merry christmas
DATE - 12:42:39 12/24/99
FROM - florida-cracker
hope one and all has a merry christmas and a even better new year.
god bless
george
TOPIC - ya1
DATE - 12:04:31 12/24/99
FROM - deplanojane
hey ms c. can 11 come out to play.
9r33n6aen, you nos egot xmus2
TOPIC - HO HO HO, Merry christmas to all!!
DATE - 08:31:18 12/24/99
FROM - Vic High
Gentlemans Farmer - only one main thought bud, but you already said it,
big roots = big buds, haha. When it was fresh
on my mind, I made a few notes here. I think I've since cut and paste them
to a [age dedicated to Steve's aquaponic
ideas.
http://www.coastnet.com/~bcga/Aquaponics/sweetwater.html
mg - great link dude, any followers of the dead cow have an opinion on
this new security option? Can you imagine
getting all those with security concerns all dedicated to one outfit? Man
what a score that would be for some LEO. Ya
know me, the ever present skeptic with these things. Still not even convinced
on the wisdom of PGP, hehe. I would to
see some of the proven hacker groups have a go at zero knowledge ;)
peaceness - are your lights going to be stationary or on a mover? If moving,
just 2 1000s should be quite efficient
(HPS), I have a buddy doing the same dimensions and once he fine tuned
the spacing and travel of the lights (key
points here), his light coverage wasn't lacking anywhere, could easily
be lighting a 4 by 10 table. I imagine adding a
400MH to each 1000HPS would really kick ass, haha, but would yield less
per watt. But more overall.
If stationary, it becomes a tougher call. Maybe 4 600s would give the best
bang for the buck. It's tough to combine
HPS and MH effectively in a stationary setup, you just get pockets of MH
and pockets of HPS, so I wouldn't bother
trying. However I have seen some setups where both bulbs are placed in
the same hood. Maybe 6 - 430 sunagros
would be a good compromise. However, the right choice will be dependant
on how big you want to grow your plants and
the style of hoods you plan to use, IMO. Shorter plants would make several
lower wattage lights more efficient if you
could take advantage of the lower heat and keep them closer to the plants
;)
OT1 - my comment above are off the top of my head without brushing up on
your setup when mentioning 600s. If I
conflict with you, it isn't intentional. Peaceness, if there is a discrepency
between the two, go with OT, he has the 600
experience, haha. I typed the above before reading OT's post, haha.
rx - interesting limestone comments. IMO, if the roots are gathering at
the bottom, it will be for the oxygen on the air,
not the CO2. Yes I know there are a couple outfits trying to mislead the
consumer with their CO2 growing
medium/solution ammendments. However, it is well known, that adding oxygen
to the root zone is far more beneficial
to a plant than CO2. CO2 is a waste product of root respiration. Overwatering
symptoms arise when too much of the
oxygen in the root zone is replaced with CO2. So if those products improve
plant performance, it is not because of
adding CO2 to the root zone.
Another bonus of the limestone gravel may be the pH difference between
it and your soil though. Not all nutrients are
available at the same pH and many growers believe that letting your pH
drift up and down on a daily basis is a good
thing. It helps maximize nutrient availability. You may be accomplishing
this by having a slightly acidic soil and a more
alkaline gravel base ;)
here is a cut and paste from an intersting article:
pH Monitoring and Control
Is pH control important?
Most people assume pH control is essential, but there is considerable misunderstanding
about the effect of pH on plant
growth. Plants grow equally well between pH 4
and 7, if nutrients do not become limiting. This is because the direct
effects of pH on root growth are small, the problem
is reduced nutrient availability at high and low
pH. The recommended pH for hydroponic culture is between 5.5 to 5.8 because
overall availability of nutrients is
optimized at a slightly acid pH. The availabilities of Mn,
Cu, Zn and especially Fe are reduced at higher pH, and there is a small
decrease in availability of P, K, Ca, Mg at
lower pH. Reduced availability means reduced
nutrient uptake, but not necessarily nutrient deficiency.
Unfortunately, hydroponic systems are so poorly buffered that it is difficult
to keep the pH between 4 and 7 without
automatic pH control. Phosphorous (H2PO4 to
HPO4) in solution buffers pH, but if phosphorous is maintained at levels
that are adequate to stabilize pH (1 to 10 mM),
it becomes toxic to plants. Plants actively absorb
phosphorous from solution so a circulating solution, with about 0.05 mM
P has much less buffering capacity than the
fresh refill solution that is added to replace
transpiration losses. Figure 2a is a titration curve of fresh refill solution
compared to the recirculating solution. Six
mmoles of base were required to raise the pH of fresh
solution from 5.8 to 8, but only 1 mmole of base raised the pH of the circulating
solution to 8. Figure 2b shows the
slopes (derivatives) of the lines in Figure 2a. Figure 2b
clearly shows poor buffering of the circulating solution between pH 5 to
9; small amounts of acid or base rapidly change
the solution pH. The fresh refill solution is
buffered by phosphorous, which has its maximum buffering capacity at pH
7.2. This point is called the pKa of the buffer
and it is the point at which half of the
phosphorous is in the H2PO4 form and half is in the HPO4 form. In other
words, the phosphate ion absorbs and
desorbs hydrogen ions to stabilize the pH.
Unfortunately, phosphorous is quickly removed from the solution.
We were surprised to find that the circulating solution was better buffered
below pH 5 than the fresh solution. The
reasons for this are unclear, we cannot identify
compounds in the refill solution that provide buffering capacity at pH
4. We are preparing to repeat these
measurements and are investigating this finding.
How important is maintaining pH 5.8?
We control the pH at 4 to study root respiration (to eliminate bicarbonate
in solution). We compared growth at pH 4 and
pH 5.8 with wheat and were not able to find a
significant difference in root growth rate or root metabolism. We now routinely
grow wheat crops at pH 4 during the
entire life cycle. However, although there is usually
a broad optimum pH, it is still best to maintain pH at about 5.8 to optimize
nutrient availability. pH levels below 4 may
start to reduce root growth, in one study our pH
control solenoid failed just after seed germination and the pH went to
2.5 for 48 hours. The roots turned brown and died,
but new roots quickly grew back and the plants
appeared to make a complete recovery.
by:
Bruce Bugbee
Crop Physiology Laboratory, Utah State University, Logan, UT 84322-4820
http://www.usu.edu/~cpl/hsapaper.html
Link: Nutrient Management in Recirculating Hydroponic Cu
TOPIC - added U.V with mercury vapor's
DATE - 07:58:24 12/24/99
FROM - High-see
Okay, one more thing
I'm going to bring up something that I'm sure will open a 'can O'worms'
but I'm afraid I must...
okay here we go ... Light's... I have been reading the archives and I'm
thinking of going this way .. one 400w hps with a
100 to 150w mercury vapor to get the added U. V laid down but wonder if
the U. V in the MV's is strong enough for the
MV's to need to be staged in slowly to prevent U. V burning
K heres where things get interesting... I was hoping to go with a V-scrog
type setup. How far from the light source
should I keep them??
also, any suggestions on the placement of both lights would be more than
gladly accepted I haven't worked that little
detail out yet as usually one light would be suspended in the center of
the vertical screen one more thing in the V-scrog
should the bottom horizontal screen remain or should the training be concentrated
on the vert's? I'm thinking it must
remain to get the scrog effect to begin then keep the outer edges for more
vigorous growth
thanks to all and hope you all have the greatest of holidays
Peace all -n- Merry met my friends
high-see
TOPIC - scrog -n- V-scrog
DATE - 06:35:28 12/24/99
FROM - High-see
I have been mulling the scrog and V-scrog techniques over as it is close
to timr to either put up or shut up so to speak.
The one one problem i have heard was that the little octagons are to small
for the growing tips to access. I was thinking
chain link fencing maybe but I'm not sure if the galvanisation would damage
my babies? there is a wire fencing that is
used on ranches here the openingws are square usually three to four inches
and ungalv. the wire itself is about the
same as bailing ire...any thoughts?
rx
awwwwww shucks, T'werent nuttin. heh Thanks though, glad to do it
TOPIC - root balls and gravel
DATE - 03:57:23 12/24/99
FROM - rx
Congratulations to both sog and scrog you gotta love it links. Outstanding
both. Is there some award to recognize such
effort and success? Chicken wire, huh, never heard of that one, gotta try
it. Very informative. I can't argue with those
pictures. Thanks to you both for going to the trouble of posting it.
On some board, I read it recently: don't use limestone gravel and suggesting
lava rock instead. I made a note to get
some lava rock to try in my next grow. The gravel I use is limestone, I
think, and I recycle it and have used the same
gravel for several years. I have used peter's potting soil ( again for
years) but it seems to no longer be available. I am
dissatisied with walmart brand and schultz - scotts is not too bad but
its not as good as peters - if I could only get
it.(IMHO)
Examining a typical root ball when cleaning up after a grow, I note the
heaviest rooting is around the bottom of the pot
and heavily intertwined with the gravel at the bottom of the pot. That
is, the heathiest roots are found in direct contact
with the limestone gravel. Thinking about it - acidic soil percolating
over limestone could produce co2. (IMHO)The
ground water in this area is slightly alkaline. The limestone might buffer
the water's alkalinity. What do you think-
limestone or lava rock?
TOPIC - Sir OT1's great grow
DATE - 01:33:47 12/24/99
FROM - rx
That's a wothwhile grow. Congratulations!
TOPIC - btw, check out this place
DATE - 18:29:13 12/23/99
FROM - m.g.
it's a canadian company offering complete anonymous surfing.
www.Zero-Knowledge.com
they can explain it all better than i can...
TOPIC -
DATE - 18:18:02 12/23/99
FROM - m.g.
sure thing, most everyone here knows i have been a major "rule #1
breaker" since i first got online...for good or for
worse. drop me a line and we can work out the particulars. i'm in the valley
high school area but am fairly mobile and i
usually set up the 1st meet at a bar or casino, wherever you want. most
of my local friends are a result of these rooms.
and thanks...things are looking up! still no police report filed and they
have yet to bring formal charges on me. not even
a prosecutor assigned yet and the prelim. hearing has yet to be scheduled.
today the insurance company called
(allstate) and said they WILL cover the damages!!! they total near $7k
so far and most of the damage has been fixed
but this news means at least the ins. co. understands what really happened
and they will also be interested in getting
back their money. maybe we can be co-plaintiffs...hehehe. still can't start
our civil suit though...not until we know what
the law is planning on doing but it looks like they just want this to quietly
go away. too late for that.
talk to ya soon...
TOPIC - Merry Xmas
DATE - 17:50:07 12/23/99
FROM - charas
Merry Xmas to ya'll up north-Have the greatest-stoned to the bones Holiday
Season
All the Best,
Charas
TOPIC -
DATE - 11:19:43 12/23/99
FROM - oldtimer1
peacness take a look at my setup link and description bit lower down, I
use an 8 x 4 bed and my set up works pretty
well! Ot1
TOPIC - lighting arrangement
DATE - 10:55:21 12/23/99
FROM - Peaceness
hello friends.
i am trying to decide on the best way to illuminate an 8x4 ebb n flow.
i was thinking of covering this space with 2400
watts. now, the question is whether i should use two 1000 watters and a
400 watter OR just hook up six 400 watters?
what do y'all think would be more effecient?
-Peaceness
TOPIC - begging ?
DATE - 08:25:06 12/23/99
FROM - high-see
Vic
did asking to trade cross some mystical ethical line or something I'm relatively
new to this type of forum so if I did I
didnt know but I need to get something going I've got babies to take care
of. I did find a kit here in my hometown for
119.00 thanks
high-see
TOPIC - aero-tables
DATE - 06:16:20 12/23/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
--no one has any thoughts or has built one yet? I can`t be the first to think this up.
--and why does everyone in aero or dutch pot or drip for that matter, transfer
the clones from say 1in. cubes to 5in. or
3in mesh baskets then put grow rock around the girls to fill the space
in the basket?
--this should piss the grow shop owners--how about doing your clones in
1in. mesh baskets with a sponge insert/slit in
it to go around the stem of the clone, and growing roots in the bubbler
or 10k`s way or any other aero method of
cloning. Then transfering the rooted and veg`ed clones to a aero-table
and put them into holes on your table top that
accept 1in. mesh baskets. No need what so ever to use bigger baskets and
grow rock and RW and 1/4 the amount of
spitters or misters than a reg aero pipes and or gutters! One mister will
do 4 plants instead of 1 mister per site.This
does not mean that you would cram more plants into the table, just smaller
holes making your table top that much
stronger! hmmm what ya all think?
--the root structure will hold the plants in place as long as the girls
are kept to 2ft.max at finish height. Mine are
finished from 12 to 18 in. so should be no problem what so ever.
TOPIC -
DATE - 01:09:19 12/23/99
FROM - oldtimer1
C.G. Iíll do my best not to offend you with my non creative writing style hehe.
Interesting shot...
==> It was hard to take as I had my arm through an access panel against
the ceiling and couldn't see what I was
taking.
The base is made of a sheet of waterproof mdf with 5îx1î edging so its
like a tray. There are levelling feet underneath. It
is lined with heavy duty pond liner. This in turn is lined with capillary
matting, the one I use holds 5 litres per sq meter.
The plants are always watered through the top of all the pots untill the
matting is saturated. Having a capillary bed
evens out watering inequalities when using a soil based system. A plant
that has its compost wet to its maximum
capacity wont draw any water from the matting. One that has a dry core
to the rootball after watering will have drawn
water from the matting untill the compost is wet to its capacity within
half an hour of watering. From then on each plant
takes water at its own rate untill the matting is dry! Because the tallest
plants are round the edges of our grows they
are also the biggest users of water and they dry first! I tend to let them
dry to a point just before they would wilt. Then
the whole cycle starts again! This means I only have to water every 3 to
4 days at the maximum growth period and less
at the beginning and end of the grow! The reason for watering through the
top of the pots is that if a rootball has dried to
the extent that it has come away from the pot it wont rehydrate properly
unless wet from the top, this seems to set the
capillary action going again. Of course the compost needs a slight addition
to its air capacity and be sure to use a
good quality wetting agent when making it up.
I hope this helps satisfy your curiosity George all the best. Ot1.
TOPIC -
DATE - 23:26:13 12/22/99
FROM - Anon
Hi All,
Been a little busy with last minute Christmas stuff. For me, shopping is
slow torture under the best of circumstances,
which tends to make me procrastinate it, adding to the problem. At least
I got everything done before the 24th (nearly a
personal best :) ).
Loop: Got your mail. Now I see what you mean with the "bean hoe" thing!
I'll mail you sunday with my thoughts on that.
I have some thinking to do on the subject. The actinic flo's are a great
idea. As both you and C.G. pointed out about
the spectral changes, blue shouldn't be a problem with the fixtures. I
should have realized that for myself (yes, C.G., I
used to dive quite a bit :) ).
C.G. : Ok, I'll let the "puzzle" go. Part of my nature is that when I get
something that arouses my curiousity, I hold on
to it like a pitbull holds on to a t-bone steak. Most of what I do for
a living involves troubleshooting, so it comes in handy
then.
Vic: I'm not in a major hurry on the blueberry. It will be a while before
I'm ready to try that bubbleberry project. I just
wanted to make sure that you were still going to produce some. I eventually
want to "archive" some seeds for a rainy
day, and the blueberry will go into that project as well. It seems to be
a strain that has a lot going for it for
crossbreeding.
OT1: I understand completely on the ES. If, on the otherhand, you should
ever do a backcross, I hope you'll keep me in
mind. ~RC has some ESB left, so I'll probably give that a try. Interesting
about the spider plants. Might help with the
semi-sealed system. As to the RO flow output, a measurement would be helpful
if it is not too much trouble. It will be
about a month before it even becomes an issue for me, so there is no rush.
I'm just trying to formulate a plan of action
before I start rebuilding. One of the few positive aspects of my recent
tribulations is the opportunity to start with a clean
sheet of paper, and a lot more knowledge than I had last time.
M.G. : Hope things are going better for you. I am even more sympathetic
to your recent problems than most, having
recently been through similar problems. Thanks for the input on cooling.
I think evaporative cooling is liable to send
humidity too high without frequent or constant air exchanges, which under
current circumstances is impossible. Are
there any builder's square still open? The one near me folded a few months
ago.
Hand: A small bit of constructive criticism... If you could put your posts
into some sort of paragraph form. Not to nitpick
at all... It just gets hard on the eyes to read. I realize it is easy to
let it all run together when you get on a roll. I've been
guilty of it myself.
Happy Holidays
Be Safe
TOPIC - That S.O.G. jpeg posting ...
DATE - 17:51:51 12/22/99
FROM - C.G.
oldtimer1 -
Interesting shot ... would you please explain the design and functioning of the capillary bed?
( If possible, without the use of multiple exclamation points.)
TOPIC - help???
DATE - 17:03:49 12/22/99
FROM - high-see
hey all,
I am in desperate need of a decent light 400 or 430w would probably be
good for my space but anything for the grow
Vic
sorry for the blatent pandering but desperatoin is the mother of all insensativities
....apologies to all and all offended
thanks for the great 411
high-see
TOPIC - ot1 and sog
DATE - 15:15:14 12/22/99
FROM - irish
did anyone else get a little misty looking at his garden?...
i started to weep like a grandmother at a wedding. beautiful.
irish, not ashamed to express my love, hehe.
happy holidays.
TOPIC - this and that
DATE - 10:41:55 12/22/99
FROM - oldtimer1
Hi! Dam Christmas shopping!! And seasons greetings to you all!!!
Dr E Iím not a seed breeder as such I just have a tinker every few years!
Iíve kept es going as a clone mother for 17
years and Iíve only had to replace her once. Believe me I have 9 mother
vars that I keep going + several dads that is
enough work! To make it worth while and do a proper job of it I would have
to go into the seed business and thats not a
road Iím going to take, this is my hobby! You had vanished when I offered
esb to regulars here [privately], now its to
late as I sent the bulk for A_1ís fund sorry about that. Iíll keep you
in mind next time I do something but it wont be for a
bit ok! On another tack entirely spider plants are supposed to be able
to absorb a number of bad gasses such as
formaldehyde in large quantities! And are now considered invaluable in
cases of sick building syndrome and space
research ie they will be included in further space stations. This is not
as an answer to your problem but worth looking
into!
Ro units, some of the small ones have built in back pressure regulators
and the water to waste keeps running even
when you aren't drawing water through the Ro. For the membrane to last
a long time it is much better to have a water
softener on your incoming main! Iíll get one of our lads to measure the
waste water rate if you like as they have this
type!
rx and those that are interested I have put a picture at OG looking down
on my own grow! What you can see is just
over half the area, it is an 8 x 4 ft capillary bed with 78 4 litre pots
with organic soil. It has white backed mylar roller
blinds on the sides. The plants are on 14 days of 11/13 light to dark!
the tallest vars are round the edges es esb and et.
The es went into flowering at around 10 inches they are now are now 52
to 59 inches 3.5 inches a day Its a totally
different ball game to growing indicas IMHO! Oh yes the lights are 2 x
600w son-t plus and 2 x 400w HQI-T only the
halides are on for the photo. Sorry about the photo quality I had to cut
it from 590k to under 250 k but its the best I
could do. Any how its my version of sea of green!
All the best Ot1
IMHO = in my humble opinion
Link: SOG
TOPIC - loop de loop
DATE - 02:55:33 12/22/99
FROM - rx
I have never used the monikers you mentioned. Can someone please tell me
what IMO and IMOA mean?
TOPIC - Cowboy - bunch of years/death
DATE - 02:38:22 12/22/99
FROM - rx
Hi Dude yourself: This same article in NY Times I refered to said 100 or
more plant in possession was a capital offense
( lethal injection) in the US under federal law.Sorry I bothered you with
what you already know. I guess I didnot
understand the question.
TOPIC - cooling apts.
DATE - 23:58:47 12/21/99
FROM - m.g.
...seen some swamp coolers on wheels for portable roomsize cooling with a 6-8 hour reservoi