This is the archives from the BC Growers Message Board
TOPIC - Y2K
DATE - 11:34:28 1/01/100
FROM - testing
is this script compatible?
TOPIC - duhhhhhh
DATE - 19:35:35 12/31/99
FROM - High-
who's stoned ... not me
sorry
High
TOPIC - Check It Out
DATE - 19:31:38 12/31/99
FROM - High-see
rx
see if this helps trust me its a much better description than you'd get
out of me right now heh but Iguana boy gives it a
pretty thourough going over here "Lots of pretty pictures to go along with
it .. gotta love a cat that'll give you a multi
media description heh
take care -n- be safe all
heh after twelve -n- I'm still alive heh go figure
High-see
Link: scrog
TOPIC - Best description of "training"-n- scrog in general
DATE - 16:34:13 12/31/99
FROM - High-see
rx
heres the best description of scrog and Training .. better thanI could
whip up in my present condition heh. Iggy did it
right with this one. lots of pic's to illustrate ....Dang those buds look
yuuuuummie
hap hap happy New Year all
take care -n- be safe
High-see
Link: Iguanas place
TOPIC - proximity of buds to bulb(nexus)
DATE - 02:44:27 12/31/99
FROM - rx
under hps I have seen buds grow right up against the bulb before they burn.
One or two inches of clearance is all you
neeed if your circulation is good enuff. Direct the fan so it blows directly
over the tops. That's all I know.
TOPIC - high see - "vegatative training"
DATE - 02:37:59 12/31/99
FROM - rx
Dear High See - can you describe "vegatative training"? Do you pinch the
stem, where, how many laterals you you
permit?
TOPIC - Light & Scrog problems
DATE - 19:27:06 12/30/99
FROM - nexus
I put my scrog screen up today ,screen is w=2ft,l=6ft and 1 foot hight
from plants , they are under a 1k hps with
aircooled + light rail. The plants are 6 mr.nices and 4 c99s , well anyways
How far can i get my light to the plants
without buring them , see i have 2 feet from the screen to the light ,
that poses a real problem and I am puting them
intoflower in a couple of weeks and i dunno what to do?ALso they are in
a drip/nft system soo what do u think i can
yeild?
Also i just ordered a 1k mh and will be putting them in another room of
w- 5 1/2,l=6ft, and h=7 1/2 , feet i dunno what
the best way to make max yeild out of them i was thinking about setting
up a modualr v screen and how far does the
vertical screen have to be from the side of the walls also how far does
the vertical screen have to be from the light
without burning the buds? When growing them vertical up the screen when
do i put them into flower -when they are half
ways up the screen? Will be making a drip/NFT system with 7 gfws, I was
thinking how much yeild do u think i can get
out of the 1k mh room?
thanks
TOPIC - powdery mildew ...the mildew that ate cleveland
DATE - 19:19:35 12/30/99
FROM - sb
My experience with powdery mildew is a follows...
appears as small whitish powdery spots here and there.Generally in areas
of the grow with reduced airflow.
Seems harmless enough at first and doesn't really spread very fast until
you turn your back for a few days and
WHAM!!!!!!
All of the sudden you realize that the overall health of the grow is in
a spin... Your' flowering beauties are starting to
look like flocked x-mas trees.Yield suffers horribly and the pot that you
do harvest is pretty much a loss unless you're
really hard up...
1 tsp baking soda and 1 tbl veg oil to 1 gal of water sprayed over the
plants every week keeps the beast at bay but will
not irradicate it.
Neem oil will knock back a bad case quickly, but you should immediately
follow up with the soda/oil spray to keep it in
control.
In the last few days(oops, turned my back) I began to notice that the PM
was gaining a foothold again.I applied a
sulphur spray and as this product makes no claims of erradication, I'll
be sure to keep spaying once a week as a
pentence for inattention.
I'd like to hear others experiences
peace
sb
TOPIC - oyaeh
DATE - 10:31:23 12/30/99
FROM - oimaenclaytontnoe
thank you i would luv to. ifya still wantta.
restovyall-if i dont see yall for a coupla days ill be roiting yha and
laying in the softwintersun
on the pcnk basket.prolly
unless i dont iquess
antiriotous2, *
TOPIC - wakes
DATE - 09:07:09 12/30/99
FROM - claytontno
highyall,
hc-yeah thats happndt me fro.
cemosavvy wen't to texas
`
`
`
.
ifigure.
anyway, now, lets hava g00d l00K@thoseteeth.com[alil'oke]
thankx.
also, ive got some seeds that were a gift that i would like to donate to
the next auction too, and was wondering what
the "heck" oer doen. kickitup?
don't have any fun,
*
*
_*
TOPIC - Lets try that link one more time
DATE - 06:45:25 12/30/99
FROM - High-see
sorry bout that I dont know why it didnt post the first time but here ya
go ... they have unbelievable deals on ballasts
84.24 prepaid like 100.00 if you dont prepay
Link: LIights, Lights -n- more LIghts
TOPIC - lighting
DATE - 01:27:29 12/30/99
FROM - rx
I only know what I read. My lighting experience is limited to a stationary
400w hps. My readings recomend at least
80w/sq.ft. Are you on the low end of that number? I am considering 400w
mps combo with 175mh. Something will have
to move. I may set the plants on a lazy susan.(INSPIRED BY HIGH SEE'S WHEELED
DOLLYS.) Good luck!
TOPIC - big apple
DATE - 19:45:28 12/29/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
try Vic`s main page, i`m sure he has a write-up on it. Pottasium Silcate,
and Sulfar comes to mind first. Yes it can
wipe out your crop fast! Look at Safers Soap products that treat powdery
mildew. Good luck.
TOPIC - powdery mildo
DATE - 15:16:34 12/29/99
FROM - manhatten
sorry about the spelling guys. can any one comment on powdery mildo problems..
can this take out your crop. is
benemyl the best product to use how do you apply it...I have been told
that locally thies is a seriou problem that many
gardeners encounter
TOPIC - Bad Ass deal on lights
DATE - 12:39:07 12/29/99
FROM - High-see
K guys y'all ignore my questions but I got something for you anyway
I lurks, I reads, I learns ,heh.
High-see
ohhhh gentleman farmer
I'm on the sound enhancement I read a thread bout it on another board of
the orriginal testing and they did sound
horrendously overblown but hey even a 50% increase wouldnt suck for 12.95
I think I like the little acoustice sound
generators that actually put that vibrations on the plant instead of in
the ambient sound ... wouldnt you like to get
pulses of 5000 hz multitracked -n- off layered ala motivational and sleep
learning hmmmmmm I wonder...
be safe all
High
Link:
TOPIC - Peaceness
DATE - 07:57:30 12/29/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
On your flood i`m told after the roots have poked out of the slab rw to
go to flooding 4 times during lights on for 1/2hr.
each time and only 1/4 the way up the rw slab or block. During lights out,
may-be once. Sounds like twice a day is
good enough now until the roots go searching and are poking out all over
the place.
I have used flock rw before and found it really throws your PH around alot.
I had to always ajust ph then have to flush
the girls from the top with lots of corrected ph`ed water. I ended up buying
a watering wand and hooked it up to the
pump to do the job quicker. Pain in the ass, but may-be they have changed
it by now, that was about 4.5 years ago.
On the sponge inserts for the mesh baskets, um it is very light weight,
about 5/8 thick, not as dense as carpet
underlay. It floats very easy. A good grow shop should be able to get it,
as for something else that might work like it, i
would be careful of what it is made from. You do not want anything leaching
out or reacting with the nutrs. and effecting
the girls.
TDS is showing what?? Holy fck man thats high, go by what your plants are
looking like, if they show burn on the
bloom end well flush her out and drop the ppm. I think may-be that the
bloom has been running longer than the veg and
thats why it`s showing signs of fert burn. Your nutrs. are a bit high with
the amounts that you showed us imho. Here is
a good way to use your TDS, ajust your first fresh batch of nutrs so that
when replenishing your res. with half strength
nutrs the ppm will not rise until the 6 day then replenish again on day
6 with straight water and on day 7 if ppm rises
again it`s time to flush everything out of the res. and start with a fresh
batch. ie: start with fresh batch at say 1400 ppm
and replenish res. each day with 700ppm The res should stay stable at 1400
until you get to the end of the week and
then when you replenish with straight water and the next day the ppm still
rises above 1400 then you know the girls are
drinking more water than nutrs, and should be flushed. The trick is to
find that first ppm strength and keep it there so it
will last a week. Some people go 2 wks before flushing, replenishing the
res every day with just straight water! Your
call dude!--- If ppm goes down the next day or within a couple of hrs.
then you know that the girls are hungry and
should try a bit stronger nutrs. if ppm rises then they are too full and
just drinking water and producing too much salts,
quite easy really.---
TOPIC - TDS
DATE - 21:22:51 12/28/99
FROM - Peaceness
Ok, just pulled out my TDS pen, which i have not used in a while. first
tested distilled water and it came out at 60. i
then did my nutrient water and it came out at over 2000. the veg and bloom
tables showed levels of over 2000, yet the
veg are not showing any burns from over fertilization. what's up?
-Peaceness
TOPIC - Your opinions please.
DATE - 21:09:17 12/28/99
FROM - Peaceness
hi guys,
have been doing a lot of regards to a few projects.
those that are using rockwool soely as a medium, in an ebb n flow:
how often do you flood the table, and for how long? (i am currently waterig
the plants in 2 cycles, 12 hours apart for a
duration of 30 minutes each cycle. Thus the table gets flooded for a total
of 1 hour each day.)
My concern is that i hear that one should flood the table 5-6 times per
day for about 20 mins each time. will i get better
growth watering more often, or just more waterlog? using my current watering
cycle, my plants do not get to dry and
droop.
also, i am at 3 weeks of flower and my gh nute ratio is: (ml per gallon)
micro:5
grow:5
bloom:12
I am starting to get yellowing with brown tips of some leaves(middle leaves).
also the leave tips are SLIGHTLY burned.
i am not sure that the nutrient is too strong though. my p.h. is at 5.8.
Other than that, they are doing fine.
Vic High:
Brother, can you tell me anything about your chemo x g13 cross. am looking
for something that would do well in sea of
green or supper cropped? what about yield and internode length?
Gentelemans Farmer.Are you talking about that spongy hydro medium that
looks lke the stuff they lay under carpets?
will be doing some side by side tests with rockwool flock i 5" baskets(aeroflo).
do you have any exp. using it this way
against rocwool or leca stone?
rx, what up guy? I still have a few days till i go and buy my system. am
thinking about lining up (4) 3 x 3 ebb n flows=
36 sq. ft. And having that lit by (2) 1000 watters on light movers. in
otherwords 1-1000 watt will be moving over (2) 3X3
table. i figured that this would be bettter than havig an 8x4 table covered
by the same lighting on lightmovers. whatch
y'all think?
Lighting: have heard of the great deals on lighting up in canada. does anyone know of a place that will ship to the u.s.?
-Peaceness
TOPIC - That 5K Vibe ...
DATE - 19:17:11 12/28/99
FROM - C.G.
Gentleman & rx :
You're both probably close to the mark ... I found time to go through most
of those links, and many of those claims
certainly sound grandiose at best, if not outright Looney Tune. One thing
I found disturbing was a reference to gibrillic
acid as one of the constituents of the foliar spray. Sounds like an invitation
to "stretch".
However, there might be a nub of truth hiding in there. I think a search
of the patent records might prove very interesting
... .
Then again, the cost of the smallest unit and concentrate for 32 Gal. of spray isn't all that outrageous.
A test using just the taped sounds could be instructive, and fairly simple
for someone with an established grow and
good records.
One of those links has a similar "grow tape" for only $12.95 plus shipping.
Anyone want to give it a shot?
Just curious.
TOPIC - rx
DATE - 18:03:10 12/28/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
700% bullshit i say!! If that was the case everyone and his dog would have
been doing it before now! If it`s to good to be
true, it is! Every farmer west of the pecos would be blasting tunes to
their crops, helicopters flying everywhere blasting
the tunes, Nam all over again LOL! Not that i don`t think that is has some
effect on the girls but 700%, give me a break!
That is the only down fall with the net, anyone can put a phd. beside their
name and write a paper and say it`s true.
Seeing, not reading, is believing!
TOPIC - combo hps + mh
DATE - 15:07:01 12/28/99
FROM - rx
Vic and Peaceness - have you considered combining hps and mh in series
- e.g. two hours of hps then two hours of
mh, and so on. I'm following your dialoge with great intrest.
TOPIC - 5kmz (mozart effect)
DATE - 15:00:13 12/28/99
FROM - rx
c.g. - that sounds too good to be true (700%).with a boost like that, who
needs co2? are you going to try it?
TOPIC - ground
DATE - 14:39:35 12/28/99
FROM - uh-clem
theres something in thea way i havent noticed as much until lately , ceemz
we keep ossing tween eart &sky and so it
makes it easier ta see, and any way then you get this "Firesign Theatre"
effect mixed wiht , and ya cannot see em
because its on a record , has any one evr listened to "I Think We're All
Bozos on this Bus?" (some janes luv-it)
now i dont mean to, but sometimes im one of those s and ask ya ..forget.
iwant to sometimes. tha devil must advocat,
and still,, isnt theare something in thea ground, reaching deeper, maybe?
certainly more mediate cause of phaze of the
saeled bix. 0yaea, anyway, cause i didnt come here_~ looking for friends,
i combed to learne.. &ya got something that
helqs,,? and we all doe, athen i dont care what ur charavtar r .
if ya can say it so I can hear it-clearestfunenuf.rockmon&off..
im wantto start the greatest company on earth, (clownosesjanes' visionary
spectacles $2.00)., doevr4 the sky *., ande
letting eve3ryone be evr they r. which as we noe now is hoestory.wichoestand.
you made me, i new
notheingprtemucho. and of coarse, you can destroy-me or , anudge d'janed
will maybe doit if ima wake. wanyway,for
tha happy franklyfree individuals this place encourages I alwwys go here_~
ta see thea other cranks and soak it up^.
*notice: all jane sights (imaen sites) r grraaeto ..
ra, claysparrow
TOPIC - aero filters
DATE - 07:44:16 12/28/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
dr evil the filters are clean-able and are before the pump not after. Look
for them at pipe dreams.com And as irish was
saying, sponge tops are the best imho. I have tried them with the 5in baskets
and 1in. rw cubes and i an amazed at
the growth of roots compared with the traditional rw/leca combo, i have
them side by side and seeing is believing! The
1in. cube is suspended in the 5 in. basket hanging from the sponge, i thought
that the weight on the now wet cubes
might pull them down but no problem so far and the stalk is just getting
thicker so i can`t see a problem with that this
time. But 1 or 2 in. baskets when using rw cubes would assure you that
this would not happen. I`m going to a aero way
of cloning and not using any rw or leca rock, just feed the roots to the
deer and make oil out of the leaves and stalk and
smoke the rest! Gotta love it!! And if you are into the stadium effect
the 1 in baskets would allow you to turn the
baskets 160 degrees and back with out tugging on your roots so much as
with a 5 in. Mind you, if done right the roots
will intertangle with each other and form a trampoline type of mat of roots
lifting off the bottom of the pipes or gutters
and forming a more true aero set-up with the water running underneath the
roots back to the res. Again seeing is
believing!
TOPIC - Trade???
DATE - 19:19:03 12/27/99
FROM - high-see
reading the archives I notice a couple of us are/were building new or upgrading
older systems.
would anyone be interested in trading a 400w hps or son-agro for 15" NEC
flatscreen multisync used three weeks
before I got a screaming deal on a 17" so its just been hanging round ever
since Email @ nuniabiz@operamail.com
Occam
pseudoscience heh ...luv it
Thanks all hope y'all had a great yule -n- merry ho ho ho
Laters
High-see
TOPIC - Sound influence on plant growth - more info.
DATE - 18:04:58 12/27/99
FROM - C.G.
There has been some discussion here in the past about the influence of
music on plant growth. Most of the information
we were able to find online, through search engines, focused on variations
of "The Mozart Effect".
There is a recent post on cannabinoid.com with a great deal more information
in this regard. It's in the Advanced
Growing section, post # 12787. There are several links included, and a
brief tour of those sites was Quite interesting.
Evidently, the 5000 Hz frequency does the trick, and in conjunction with
foliar feeding, results in some remarkable
yields.
Take a look, check it out, and report back.
Santa brought me a dose of the flu for Christmas. Joy to the World!
TOPIC - gentlemans farmer re: aero tables
DATE - 04:37:56 12/27/99
FROM - irish
my friend has some nft gutters that accept only the small 1" (he says two
inch) cups. the holes are 1 7/8" in diameter,
shaved out to about 1 15/16" so the cups SNAP in. they are able to hold
a three foot plant. the holes are on six inch
centers. maybe i will try to post some pics on overgrow or cannworld, when
i do i will post a link.
all that my friend uses are the 1" rockwool cubes or the oasis cubes, fits
'em in there. throws some rocks in the cup to
block the light, and watches em grow. so much less waste than the RW slabs
he was using. when the plant is done,
he trims away the roots, can recycle the cup, and the oddest looking trash
from this is 1" square piece of a root/cube
mix. not like the old 4" he used to try to toss out. the rest goes in compost.
rocks get boiled, resoaked and back in the
bucket for later.
since you had mentioned the foam, he was thinking of getting some of those
made, a bunch of 1" thick foam pads, slit
like a "C" shape to slide over and then slip in the cup. you could reuse
the ...um... "heck" out of them, less muss, cuts
out the rocks... all you have is compost.
couple that up to an aquaponic drip system, with some guano/organic meals
tea and you have great fish and chips
when you have the munchies...never need a grow shop again.
TOPIC - Hi All
DATE - 21:32:47 12/26/99
FROM - Anon
Loop: you have mail
Wadsworth: Unless you could point to something you "did" to the plant to
stress it into herming, I'd be inclined to dump
it, myself. Not a good idea to use it for breeding if it hermed on its
own, because it will pass its gender confusion on to
its offspring. On the other hand, if it is a result of stress, some would
call it useful for breeding all female seeds. I don't
argue that, but as Mr. Soul has pointed out before, those seeds should
not be used for breeding, for the reasons
mentioned above. HTH
Gentleman Farmer: Are the aero filters you mentioned cleanable? If not,
it would be my guess that the expense of
repeatedly changing them would offset any benefit gained by flooding the
areo tubes with organics, especially since it
is liable to wash particulates out of the tubes slowly and continuously
for a long time after application. I suppose you
could add a fluid bed type filter directly after the tubes, or put in a
couple of different stages of filters that could be
cleaned ahead of the small particle aero filter. I'm a fan of the aero
style, but I think it would be incompatable with
aquaponics, which is the type of setup I'm starting on. I think bacterial
slime would plug any misters used.
Vic: What do you suppose you'd get crossing an IBL with an unrelated F1.,
such as bubblegum and romberry
(rombubbleberry?). I'm not sure what the distribution of traits is supposed
to come out like in such a case. Any ideas. I
know how this is supposed to work in a f1 or f2 cross, but not this. Any
ideas?
Well, Happy New Yields everyone
TOPIC - Merry Christmas Stoners!
DATE - 20:36:17 12/25/99
FROM - Wadsworth
One of my romberrys is going hermie. Should I chop it now or is the pollen
worth keeping? Also at what point should
pollen be collected from a male?
d;^)-~
TOPIC - feliz navidad!
DATE - 10:44:58 12/25/99
FROM - m.g.
and a merry new year...
TOPIC - Vic High
DATE - 10:02:54 12/25/99
FROM - oldtimer1
Just want to say thanks for making this space for us, have a good holiday!
All the best Ot1.
TOPIC - Vic
DATE - 07:36:31 12/25/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
---if ya want, i`ll help pack a tune on my shoulders come new years. Also
may-be that sooped up version of ahhh, that
sports car will be there if you show up, she wants me to just be her mechanic
not her driver!! LMAO!---See ya there?
TOPIC - aero-tables
DATE - 07:29:10 12/25/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
---looks like i`m on my own again lol! i was alone on the aeroponics a
few years ago, ( Shabang and Soul were trying to
help back then) no one was doing it yet and it was a learning curve! Will
let everyone know how things set up and how
it does. PS aero rocks over anything that i have come across, people are
just catching on now and are switching to
aero or at least hydro LOL! ( people that were chastizing me for not going
with good old soul, i mean soil!! LOL!)
---I also have thought of a way to add organics to the aero table with
out plugging up the misters using the KISS
method. After the girls have devolped a good root structure, say after
the 3 wk. in bud add another smaller seperate
res. (15 gals) and flood the table and the roots lol and have it return
to your orgaincs res. just plug off what drain you do
not want it to go into. The little bit that will be left in the bottom
of the table should be filtered out using the new filters
that they have come up with for the aero users. You should have the best
of both worlds.----What am i missing in this
picture?
---Merry Christmas all and a smokin new year!!
TOPIC - HAPPY HOLIDAYS
DATE - 04:58:39 12/25/99
FROM - irish
.....to all the mad scientists and the not so mad scientists.
thank you for this past year, looking forward to the next millenium (well,
part of it anyway...LOL) with all of you.
and who knows... if santa brings me a brain, i may have something to share with all of you...
happy holidays, and many sweet harvests for all
TOPIC - Merry Christmas All
DATE - 01:33:56 12/25/99
FROM - Anon
Hi all,
Just wanted to wish everyone happy holidays.
Loop: still looking at the list, trying to determine exactly what I want
(too many choices!) I'll drop you a line sunday.
TOPIC -
DATE - 19:25:35 12/24/99
FROM - sb
Vic and the bcga crew
Happy holidays to you all!
Cheers
sb
TOPIC - stay safe
DATE - 19:17:35 12/24/99
FROM - loop
Merry xmas all,
Hope everyone has a safe and healthy grow in 2k
TOPIC - water
DATE - 19:00:29 12/24/99
FROM - puffer
I'm starting up a small grow cabinet, 2-3 plants tops. I
was wondering how many gallons of water I should use. I want to change
water as little as possible - 2 or 3 weeks.
THanks
TOPIC -
DATE - 16:02:45 12/24/99
FROM - la.bud
merry christmas vic and all!!!
TOPIC - merry christmas
DATE - 12:42:39 12/24/99
FROM - florida-cracker
hope one and all has a merry christmas and a even better new year.
god bless
george
TOPIC - ya1
DATE - 12:04:31 12/24/99
FROM - deplanojane
hey ms c. can 11 come out to play.
9r33n6aen, you nos egot xmus2
TOPIC - HO HO HO, Merry christmas to all!!
DATE - 08:31:18 12/24/99
FROM - Vic High
Gentlemans Farmer - only one main thought bud, but you already said it,
big roots = big buds, haha. When it was fresh
on my mind, I made a few notes here. I think I've since cut and paste them
to a [age dedicated to Steve's aquaponic
ideas.
http://www.coastnet.com/~bcga/Aquaponics/sweetwater.html
mg - great link dude, any followers of the dead cow have an opinion on
this new security option? Can you imagine
getting all those with security concerns all dedicated to one outfit? Man
what a score that would be for some LEO. Ya
know me, the ever present skeptic with these things. Still not even convinced
on the wisdom of PGP, hehe. I would to
see some of the proven hacker groups have a go at zero knowledge ;)
peaceness - are your lights going to be stationary or on a mover? If moving,
just 2 1000s should be quite efficient
(HPS), I have a buddy doing the same dimensions and once he fine tuned
the spacing and travel of the lights (key
points here), his light coverage wasn't lacking anywhere, could easily
be lighting a 4 by 10 table. I imagine adding a
400MH to each 1000HPS would really kick ass, haha, but would yield less
per watt. But more overall.
If stationary, it becomes a tougher call. Maybe 4 600s would give the best
bang for the buck. It's tough to combine
HPS and MH effectively in a stationary setup, you just get pockets of MH
and pockets of HPS, so I wouldn't bother
trying. However I have seen some setups where both bulbs are placed in
the same hood. Maybe 6 - 430 sunagros
would be a good compromise. However, the right choice will be dependant
on how big you want to grow your plants and
the style of hoods you plan to use, IMO. Shorter plants would make several
lower wattage lights more efficient if you
could take advantage of the lower heat and keep them closer to the plants
;)
OT1 - my comment above are off the top of my head without brushing up on
your setup when mentioning 600s. If I
conflict with you, it isn't intentional. Peaceness, if there is a discrepency
between the two, go with OT, he has the 600
experience, haha. I typed the above before reading OT's post, haha.
rx - interesting limestone comments. IMO, if the roots are gathering at
the bottom, it will be for the oxygen on the air,
not the CO2. Yes I know there are a couple outfits trying to mislead the
consumer with their CO2 growing
medium/solution ammendments. However, it is well known, that adding oxygen
to the root zone is far more beneficial
to a plant than CO2. CO2 is a waste product of root respiration. Overwatering
symptoms arise when too much of the
oxygen in the root zone is replaced with CO2. So if those products improve
plant performance, it is not because of
adding CO2 to the root zone.
Another bonus of the limestone gravel may be the pH difference between
it and your soil though. Not all nutrients are
available at the same pH and many growers believe that letting your pH
drift up and down on a daily basis is a good
thing. It helps maximize nutrient availability. You may be accomplishing
this by having a slightly acidic soil and a more
alkaline gravel base ;)
here is a cut and paste from an intersting article:
pH Monitoring and Control
Is pH control important?
Most people assume pH control is essential, but there is considerable misunderstanding
about the effect of pH on plant
growth. Plants grow equally well between pH 4
and 7, if nutrients do not become limiting. This is because the direct
effects of pH on root growth are small, the problem
is reduced nutrient availability at high and low
pH. The recommended pH for hydroponic culture is between 5.5 to 5.8 because
overall availability of nutrients is
optimized at a slightly acid pH. The availabilities of Mn,
Cu, Zn and especially Fe are reduced at higher pH, and there is a small
decrease in availability of P, K, Ca, Mg at
lower pH. Reduced availability means reduced
nutrient uptake, but not necessarily nutrient deficiency.
Unfortunately, hydroponic systems are so poorly buffered that it is difficult
to keep the pH between 4 and 7 without
automatic pH control. Phosphorous (H2PO4 to
HPO4) in solution buffers pH, but if phosphorous is maintained at levels
that are adequate to stabilize pH (1 to 10 mM),
it becomes toxic to plants. Plants actively absorb
phosphorous from solution so a circulating solution, with about 0.05 mM
P has much less buffering capacity than the
fresh refill solution that is added to replace
transpiration losses. Figure 2a is a titration curve of fresh refill solution
compared to the recirculating solution. Six
mmoles of base were required to raise the pH of fresh
solution from 5.8 to 8, but only 1 mmole of base raised the pH of the circulating
solution to 8. Figure 2b shows the
slopes (derivatives) of the lines in Figure 2a. Figure 2b
clearly shows poor buffering of the circulating solution between pH 5 to
9; small amounts of acid or base rapidly change
the solution pH. The fresh refill solution is
buffered by phosphorous, which has its maximum buffering capacity at pH
7.2. This point is called the pKa of the buffer
and it is the point at which half of the
phosphorous is in the H2PO4 form and half is in the HPO4 form. In other
words, the phosphate ion absorbs and
desorbs hydrogen ions to stabilize the pH.
Unfortunately, phosphorous is quickly removed from the solution.
We were surprised to find that the circulating solution was better buffered
below pH 5 than the fresh solution. The
reasons for this are unclear, we cannot identify
compounds in the refill solution that provide buffering capacity at pH
4. We are preparing to repeat these
measurements and are investigating this finding.
How important is maintaining pH 5.8?
We control the pH at 4 to study root respiration (to eliminate bicarbonate
in solution). We compared growth at pH 4 and
pH 5.8 with wheat and were not able to find a
significant difference in root growth rate or root metabolism. We now routinely
grow wheat crops at pH 4 during the
entire life cycle. However, although there is usually
a broad optimum pH, it is still best to maintain pH at about 5.8 to optimize
nutrient availability. pH levels below 4 may
start to reduce root growth, in one study our pH
control solenoid failed just after seed germination and the pH went to
2.5 for 48 hours. The roots turned brown and died,
but new roots quickly grew back and the plants
appeared to make a complete recovery.
by:
Bruce Bugbee
Crop Physiology Laboratory, Utah State University, Logan, UT 84322-4820
http://www.usu.edu/~cpl/hsapaper.html
Link: Nutrient Management in Recirculating Hydroponic Cu
TOPIC - added U.V with mercury vapor's
DATE - 07:58:24 12/24/99
FROM - High-see
Okay, one more thing
I'm going to bring up something that I'm sure will open a 'can O'worms'
but I'm afraid I must...
okay here we go ... Light's... I have been reading the archives and I'm
thinking of going this way .. one 400w hps with a
100 to 150w mercury vapor to get the added U. V laid down but wonder if
the U. V in the MV's is strong enough for the
MV's to need to be staged in slowly to prevent U. V burning
K heres where things get interesting... I was hoping to go with a V-scrog
type setup. How far from the light source
should I keep them??
also, any suggestions on the placement of both lights would be more than
gladly accepted I haven't worked that little
detail out yet as usually one light would be suspended in the center of
the vertical screen one more thing in the V-scrog
should the bottom horizontal screen remain or should the training be concentrated
on the vert's? I'm thinking it must
remain to get the scrog effect to begin then keep the outer edges for more
vigorous growth
thanks to all and hope you all have the greatest of holidays
Peace all -n- Merry met my friends
high-see
TOPIC - scrog -n- V-scrog
DATE - 06:35:28 12/24/99
FROM - High-see
I have been mulling the scrog and V-scrog techniques over as it is close
to timr to either put up or shut up so to speak.
The one one problem i have heard was that the little octagons are to small
for the growing tips to access. I was thinking
chain link fencing maybe but I'm not sure if the galvanisation would damage
my babies? there is a wire fencing that is
used on ranches here the openingws are square usually three to four inches
and ungalv. the wire itself is about the
same as bailing ire...any thoughts?
rx
awwwwww shucks, T'werent nuttin. heh Thanks though, glad to do it
TOPIC - root balls and gravel
DATE - 03:57:23 12/24/99
FROM - rx
Congratulations to both sog and scrog you gotta love it links. Outstanding
both. Is there some award to recognize such
effort and success? Chicken wire, huh, never heard of that one, gotta try
it. Very informative. I can't argue with those
pictures. Thanks to you both for going to the trouble of posting it.
On some board, I read it recently: don't use limestone gravel and suggesting
lava rock instead. I made a note to get
some lava rock to try in my next grow. The gravel I use is limestone, I
think, and I recycle it and have used the same
gravel for several years. I have used peter's potting soil ( again for
years) but it seems to no longer be available. I am
dissatisied with walmart brand and schultz - scotts is not too bad but
its not as good as peters - if I could only get
it.(IMHO)
Examining a typical root ball when cleaning up after a grow, I note the
heaviest rooting is around the bottom of the pot
and heavily intertwined with the gravel at the bottom of the pot. That
is, the heathiest roots are found in direct contact
with the limestone gravel. Thinking about it - acidic soil percolating
over limestone could produce co2. (IMHO)The
ground water in this area is slightly alkaline. The limestone might buffer
the water's alkalinity. What do you think-
limestone or lava rock?
TOPIC - Sir OT1's great grow
DATE - 01:33:47 12/24/99
FROM - rx
That's a wothwhile grow. Congratulations!
TOPIC - btw, check out this place
DATE - 18:29:13 12/23/99
FROM - m.g.
it's a canadian company offering complete anonymous surfing.
www.Zero-Knowledge.com
they can explain it all better than i can...
TOPIC -
DATE - 18:18:02 12/23/99
FROM - m.g.
sure thing, most everyone here knows i have been a major "rule #1
breaker" since i first got online...for good or for
worse. drop me a line and we can work out the particulars. i'm in the valley
high school area but am fairly mobile and i
usually set up the 1st meet at a bar or casino, wherever you want. most
of my local friends are a result of these rooms.
and thanks...things are looking up! still no police report filed and they
have yet to bring formal charges on me. not even
a prosecutor assigned yet and the prelim. hearing has yet to be scheduled.
today the insurance company called
(allstate) and said they WILL cover the damages!!! they total near $7k
so far and most of the damage has been fixed
but this news means at least the ins. co. understands what really happened
and they will also be interested in getting
back their money. maybe we can be co-plaintiffs...hehehe. still can't start
our civil suit though...not until we know what
the law is planning on doing but it looks like they just want this to quietly
go away. too late for that.
talk to ya soon...
TOPIC - Merry Xmas
DATE - 17:50:07 12/23/99
FROM - charas
Merry Xmas to ya'll up north-Have the greatest-stoned to the bones Holiday
Season
All the Best,
Charas
TOPIC -
DATE - 11:19:43 12/23/99
FROM - oldtimer1
peacness take a look at my setup link and description bit lower down, I
use an 8 x 4 bed and my set up works pretty
well! Ot1
TOPIC - lighting arrangement
DATE - 10:55:21 12/23/99
FROM - Peaceness
hello friends.
i am trying to decide on the best way to illuminate an 8x4 ebb n flow.
i was thinking of covering this space with 2400
watts. now, the question is whether i should use two 1000 watters and a
400 watter OR just hook up six 400 watters?
what do y'all think would be more effecient?
-Peaceness
TOPIC - begging ?
DATE - 08:25:06 12/23/99
FROM - high-see
Vic
did asking to trade cross some mystical ethical line or something I'm relatively
new to this type of forum so if I did I
didnt know but I need to get something going I've got babies to take care
of. I did find a kit here in my hometown for
119.00 thanks
high-see
TOPIC - aero-tables
DATE - 06:16:20 12/23/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
--no one has any thoughts or has built one yet? I can`t be the first to think this up.
--and why does everyone in aero or dutch pot or drip for that matter, transfer
the clones from say 1in. cubes to 5in. or
3in mesh baskets then put grow rock around the girls to fill the space
in the basket?
--this should piss the grow shop owners--how about doing your clones in
1in. mesh baskets with a sponge insert/slit in
it to go around the stem of the clone, and growing roots in the bubbler
or 10k`s way or any other aero method of
cloning. Then transfering the rooted and veg`ed clones to a aero-table
and put them into holes on your table top that
accept 1in. mesh baskets. No need what so ever to use bigger baskets and
grow rock and RW and 1/4 the amount of
spitters or misters than a reg aero pipes and or gutters! One mister will
do 4 plants instead of 1 mister per site.This
does not mean that you would cram more plants into the table, just smaller
holes making your table top that much
stronger! hmmm what ya all think?
--the root structure will hold the plants in place as long as the girls
are kept to 2ft.max at finish height. Mine are
finished from 12 to 18 in. so should be no problem what so ever.
TOPIC -
DATE - 01:09:19 12/23/99
FROM - oldtimer1
C.G. Iíll do my best not to offend you with my non creative writing style hehe.
Interesting shot...
==> It was hard to take as I had my arm through an access panel against
the ceiling and couldn't see what I was
taking.
The base is made of a sheet of waterproof mdf with 5îx1î edging so its
like a tray. There are levelling feet underneath. It
is lined with heavy duty pond liner. This in turn is lined with capillary
matting, the one I use holds 5 litres per sq meter.
The plants are always watered through the top of all the pots untill the
matting is saturated. Having a capillary bed
evens out watering inequalities when using a soil based system. A plant
that has its compost wet to its maximum
capacity wont draw any water from the matting. One that has a dry core
to the rootball after watering will have drawn
water from the matting untill the compost is wet to its capacity within
half an hour of watering. From then on each plant
takes water at its own rate untill the matting is dry! Because the tallest
plants are round the edges of our grows they
are also the biggest users of water and they dry first! I tend to let them
dry to a point just before they would wilt. Then
the whole cycle starts again! This means I only have to water every 3 to
4 days at the maximum growth period and less
at the beginning and end of the grow! The reason for watering through the
top of the pots is that if a rootball has dried to
the extent that it has come away from the pot it wont rehydrate properly
unless wet from the top, this seems to set the
capillary action going again. Of course the compost needs a slight addition
to its air capacity and be sure to use a
good quality wetting agent when making it up.
I hope this helps satisfy your curiosity George all the best. Ot1.
TOPIC -
DATE - 23:26:13 12/22/99
FROM - Anon
Hi All,
Been a little busy with last minute Christmas stuff. For me, shopping is
slow torture under the best of circumstances,
which tends to make me procrastinate it, adding to the problem. At least
I got everything done before the 24th (nearly a
personal best :) ).
Loop: Got your mail. Now I see what you mean with the "bean hoe" thing!
I'll mail you sunday with my thoughts on that.
I have some thinking to do on the subject. The actinic flo's are a great
idea. As both you and C.G. pointed out about
the spectral changes, blue shouldn't be a problem with the fixtures. I
should have realized that for myself (yes, C.G., I
used to dive quite a bit :) ).
C.G. : Ok, I'll let the "puzzle" go. Part of my nature is that when I get
something that arouses my curiousity, I hold on
to it like a pitbull holds on to a t-bone steak. Most of what I do for
a living involves troubleshooting, so it comes in handy
then.
Vic: I'm not in a major hurry on the blueberry. It will be a while before
I'm ready to try that bubbleberry project. I just
wanted to make sure that you were still going to produce some. I eventually
want to "archive" some seeds for a rainy
day, and the blueberry will go into that project as well. It seems to be
a strain that has a lot going for it for
crossbreeding.
OT1: I understand completely on the ES. If, on the otherhand, you should
ever do a backcross, I hope you'll keep me in
mind. ~RC has some ESB left, so I'll probably give that a try. Interesting
about the spider plants. Might help with the
semi-sealed system. As to the RO flow output, a measurement would be helpful
if it is not too much trouble. It will be
about a month before it even becomes an issue for me, so there is no rush.
I'm just trying to formulate a plan of action
before I start rebuilding. One of the few positive aspects of my recent
tribulations is the opportunity to start with a clean
sheet of paper, and a lot more knowledge than I had last time.
M.G. : Hope things are going better for you. I am even more sympathetic
to your recent problems than most, having
recently been through similar problems. Thanks for the input on cooling.
I think evaporative cooling is liable to send
humidity too high without frequent or constant air exchanges, which under
current circumstances is impossible. Are
there any builder's square still open? The one near me folded a few months
ago.
Hand: A small bit of constructive criticism... If you could put your posts
into some sort of paragraph form. Not to nitpick
at all... It just gets hard on the eyes to read. I realize it is easy to
let it all run together when you get on a roll. I've been
guilty of it myself.
Happy Holidays
Be Safe
TOPIC - That S.O.G. jpeg posting ...
DATE - 17:51:51 12/22/99
FROM - C.G.
oldtimer1 -
Interesting shot ... would you please explain the design and functioning of the capillary bed?
( If possible, without the use of multiple exclamation points.)
TOPIC - help???
DATE - 17:03:49 12/22/99
FROM - high-see
hey all,
I am in desperate need of a decent light 400 or 430w would probably be
good for my space but anything for the grow
Vic
sorry for the blatent pandering but desperatoin is the mother of all insensativities
....apologies to all and all offended
thanks for the great 411
high-see
TOPIC - ot1 and sog
DATE - 15:15:14 12/22/99
FROM - irish
did anyone else get a little misty looking at his garden?...
i started to weep like a grandmother at a wedding. beautiful.
irish, not ashamed to express my love, hehe.
happy holidays.
TOPIC - this and that
DATE - 10:41:55 12/22/99
FROM - oldtimer1
Hi! Dam Christmas shopping!! And seasons greetings to you all!!!
Dr E Iím not a seed breeder as such I just have a tinker every few years!
Iíve kept es going as a clone mother for 17
years and Iíve only had to replace her once. Believe me I have 9 mother
vars that I keep going + several dads that is
enough work! To make it worth while and do a proper job of it I would have
to go into the seed business and thats not a
road Iím going to take, this is my hobby! You had vanished when I offered
esb to regulars here [privately], now its to
late as I sent the bulk for A_1ís fund sorry about that. Iíll keep you
in mind next time I do something but it wont be for a
bit ok! On another tack entirely spider plants are supposed to be able
to absorb a number of bad gasses such as
formaldehyde in large quantities! And are now considered invaluable in
cases of sick building syndrome and space
research ie they will be included in further space stations. This is not
as an answer to your problem but worth looking
into!
Ro units, some of the small ones have built in back pressure regulators
and the water to waste keeps running even
when you aren't drawing water through the Ro. For the membrane to last
a long time it is much better to have a water
softener on your incoming main! Iíll get one of our lads to measure the
waste water rate if you like as they have this
type!
rx and those that are interested I have put a picture at OG looking down
on my own grow! What you can see is just
over half the area, it is an 8 x 4 ft capillary bed with 78 4 litre pots
with organic soil. It has white backed mylar roller
blinds on the sides. The plants are on 14 days of 11/13 light to dark!
the tallest vars are round the edges es esb and et.
The es went into flowering at around 10 inches they are now are now 52
to 59 inches 3.5 inches a day Its a totally
different ball game to growing indicas IMHO! Oh yes the lights are 2 x
600w son-t plus and 2 x 400w HQI-T only the
halides are on for the photo. Sorry about the photo quality I had to cut
it from 590k to under 250 k but its the best I
could do. Any how its my version of sea of green!
All the best Ot1
IMHO = in my humble opinion
Link: SOG
TOPIC - loop de loop
DATE - 02:55:33 12/22/99
FROM - rx
I have never used the monikers you mentioned. Can someone please tell me
what IMO and IMOA mean?
TOPIC - Cowboy - bunch of years/death
DATE - 02:38:22 12/22/99
FROM - rx
Hi Dude yourself: This same article in NY Times I refered to said 100 or
more plant in possession was a capital offense
( lethal injection) in the US under federal law.Sorry I bothered you with
what you already know. I guess I didnot
understand the question.
TOPIC - cooling apts.
DATE - 23:58:47 12/21/99
FROM - m.g.
...seen some swamp coolers on wheels for portable roomsize cooling with
a 6-8 hour reservoir at our local
builder's square. if i recall corectly they run around 400 bucks and can
cool a standard 10 x 12 room with no probs.
fairly quiet but the mobile part sounded best to me. was gonna go that
route until i found a 17,000 btu a/c and cut it
into the wall.
TOPIC - an early contender
DATE - 21:29:21 12/21/99
FROM - high-see
Loop
was that a shot??? yeah thats the plan for now. I have some of the tastiest
light green thriller in the blaster as we
speak/typehopefully I can clone a decent fem. and we shall see
again Vic and company thanks for the 411
cowboy and tx
here is an scrog grow addy for ya'll I'm setting up to try it slightly
modified ...updates to follow
Peace -N- MERRY MET
High-see
Link: scrog ya gotta love it
TOPIC - importence of corroborating
DATE - 15:26:28 12/21/99
FROM - hand
mine owne obsevations are not enough to come to conclusions.example,observing
males turn to females,i concluded
stress was responsible but evidence from others leads me to conclude backcrossing
is more likely the cause.both
factors were present one just overlooked,corroboration from other disscusions
not even related helped me come to a
different conclusion.now if i see a male turn to a female i'll know the
real reason.if i through out an occasional stange
thought or idea its for corroboration or to incite disscusion,or to give
something to someone else to try that they didnt
think of and i dont have the means or time or patience to try.but without
some corroboration even at a later date,my
owne conclusions are just that unsubstantiated.everyone has limits to there
patience with whatever.mine is newbie or
wanabee questions,closedmindedness, so i avoid.some people will never have
a green thumb,i feel sorry for them,but i
cant help them.blatently wrong or harmful answers to questions i come across
may get attention,just so there is an
option.names yes i chose a bad name at the start,i dropped part of it because
it implied to much,was misleading i'm
still not happy with whats left too much fate.style would identify me even
if i changed names,good thing is ive only been
posed once,at LM,nobody wants to be me ha ha.advice to future posters chose
name and style carefully.the only other
style i can muster is poetic,and that dont go over good either.i have a
really good poem ive never posted,too
controversial if anyone wants to read it tell me where to post it,fate
will rear its head.meglomaniac no,obsesive yes.both
are good if you seek answers.as i fear the net will become nothing more
than a trap for bigger b,i'm going to try and
break my obsesion with you good folks on the 31st.for the tips and secrets
i have got from you all,aero clonings the
best,i'll give you my last secret.hands rule of thumb,2hits inside=1hit
outside,rule dosnt always work,rule wont work
everywhere,its just my guide.be very afraid of this word,conspiracy, it
is all they need.yes merry meet
TOPIC - more blue
DATE - 13:54:24 12/21/99
FROM - loop
High-see: Forget the fancy genetics, Iíd say whatever your smoking is working just fine.
Evil_ the shift does seem to effect mostly the red. Also, the thing to
remember about the classic series is that you are
limited to the bulbs you can use and need special gaskets for each bulb
(I believe). Still there made far better and
should last a lifetime.
You can easily add more blue to your HPS lit rooms by simply adding an
Actinic flo bulb.
40 watts of pure 420 nm blue for about $15.
TOPIC - lurking 2 of 2
DATE - 10:41:00 12/21/99
FROM - high-see
btw
I'm still trying to get the candle to not burst the condom on insertion
any thoughts?
dont humans breathe c0 as exaust bit not in substantial enough concentrations
butI still converse regularly it is a
wiccan practise to sing or hum a light melody or special phrasing to 'mellow'
them esecially when taking cuttings I feel
it calms the more nervous mums.
well all attack at will folks I've cast off the ohhhhh so very comforting
cloak of anonimity now the intro is out of the way
Flame on.
Merry met,
High-see
TOPIC - lurking in the shadows of greatness 1of 2
DATE - 10:38:52 12/21/99
FROM - high-see
hello all,
I have been lurking in the shadws for a few days/weeks just kind evasdropping
I prteffer osmossisising you know just
absorbing the greatness genious sheer genious obviously an accomplished
grower of the mystical fruit but the genious
lies in not only somehow sidestepping all of the typically boisterous americans...sorry.
are not all loudmouthed
bumbling idiots with no respect for any idea or opinion other than thier
own. I swear.But also keeping everyone from
verbally assasinating one another a feat worthy of praise IMHO everyone
here seems to know there subject fairly well
and healthy debate is always productive in a forum of this type challengng
of ones ideas leads to more in depth
discussion with more detailed information for all and a sort of proof is
in the sharing environment ... yes??
a word on clones
Grrrrrrrr I just want to go on record saying I/we are soooooooo very very
jealous wwhen I/we read about all of these
outstanding hybrids that you all seem to have access to.It would be so
nice to be able to cruise over to a bud's grow
andpick out a fe grapefruit or white widow cuttings go home and Voilla
canopy of sweet tasting high resin yummies it
brings a tear to ones eye but it is hard to begrudge you guys and gals
the sweet life/leaf but hey every once in awhile
when you load up some tasty astro puff think of us poor yanks huh?
TOPIC - Spectrum changes in water ...
DATE - 08:05:57 12/21/99
FROM - C.G.
Dr. E ...
If memory serves, sunlight passing through water loses portions of the
red spectrum first ... the effect becomes more
pronounced the deeper you go ... ever do any scuba or snorkeling? I've
seen notes in fishing publications that refer to
this effect as well. With the water coolant in those light fixtures only
a few inches deep, I doubt there is very much loss,
but if you're really picky, the difference would be measurable with a spectrometer.
As for the puzzle, lets just let it drop ... I'm sorry I even brought it
up ... give credit, or blame, to that Romberry ... .
TOPIC -
DATE - 07:55:54 12/21/99
FROM - Vic High
Dr Evil - when I sold the last of my blueberry to Bong to help raise money
for A1, I totally underestimated the rate which
those seeds were still selling. The next batch is still in the veg room
and it won't be till march or april before they are
ready for release. So if your in a rush, Bong is the man, if you want the
one stop shop, I guess blueberry will just have
to wait for a future date. Making a new version of bubbleberry does sound
like fun though ;)
GWS - there are two basic reasons. First, the HPS simply gives off more
light. Second, the red in the HPS spectrum
triggers the plant's flowering hormone, thus further amplifying the plant's
desire to make flowers. For the serious
gardener, the HPS provides the plants with their "meat and potatoes" so
to speak, the MH supplies the vitamins to
keep the plants healthy. For this reason, some of us try for a 2:1 ratio
of HPS to MH. With a 1 light garden, HPS is the
wiser choice. A couple of Vancouver outfits are in a price war now, HPS
bulbs and their kits are dirt cheap. Some links
are on the main page, link above.
TOPIC - M.H/HPS
DATE - 06:19:20 12/21/99
FROM - GWS
Question.i am flowering with a 1000 wttMH.because i could not afford a
HPS..i have growen with a HPS in the past.i
have noticed that buds are not as big or fat than when i use a HPS..why
is that.also i have co2..i do not have a
controller so i turn off fans and then i turn on co2 and let it blow over
top of all plants for a min or two.i do this once a
day in the morning is that ok.plants are all looking great tons of buds
but not as big and fat as i hoped i am at my 5th
wk of flowering now,,my strains are.blueberry.GWS..jack herer mix.and a
blueberryxwhite widowxjack herer
mix..hopefully things will pick up in the last couple wks.
thanks for your time and hopefully someone can give me some advice..i grow
in soil only using pro-mix and a powered
10-52-10 food from the hydro store.
TOPIC - water-cooled lights, etc.
DATE - 23:17:52 12/20/99
FROM - Dr. Evil
Hi All,
Loop: Thanks for the info. I was wondering if you thought the classic model
was worth the extra money. I'd rather spend
a little extra now than replace them later. I guess the heat exchanger
would only be worthwhile if you had a usable
body of water to dump heat into (like a swimming pool or something). I
expected a total loss of UV spectrum from the
fixtures, but I wonder if it has a major effect on the blue spectrum. UV
is easy enough to supplement with flourescents.
I'm planning on setting up an RO unit for water here, and I wonder if the
waste water flow from it would be sufficent for
cooling the lights. The water here comes out of the tap at about 700 ppm
TDS (you don't drink it, more like cut off a
chunk and chew it :) ). I know that RO units have a waste water stream
that carries off the excess minerals that are
trapped by the membrane, but I'm not sure if the flow rate is high enough.
I'll have to do some checking on that. I also
don't know if the highly mineralized tapwater here might have an effect
on the fixtures. Probably not, as long as they
are cleaned between cycles. The washing machine soleniod is a great idea,
I hadn't thought of that one. I'm looking
forward to seeing those pics.
Irish: Looking forward to hearing about your friend's sealed setup.
C.G. : I'm stumped, sounds like maybe you were at a Phish concert or something.
While I enjoy their music on
occasion, I have no idea where they are touring.
Mr. Soul: The main reason I'm so concerned over the heat/ ventilation issue
is that I now live in the same town m.g.
does (never heard if you live here also or not). In any event, you know
how weather gets here. I'm trying to avoid running
so much ventilation that it sounds like a helicopter is hovering in my
apartment, and having a window A/C unit
dedicated to one room, in a complex with 1000 apartments, none of which
have separate window units, is liable to raise
some eyebrows. Just trying to come up with practical solutions to address
both the growing environment and security.
Being at least somewhat familiar with the local environment, any comments
you have would be very welcome.
Sb: glad you found my warning useful. I'd hate to see anybody wind up with
mite problems from something so easy to
overlook.
Vic: I notice ~RC's site is showing out of stock on your blueberry. Is
there going to be more? I'm planning on placing an
order there after the holidays, and while I don't have immediate use for
them, I thought I might get some to stockpile
until I have some room to work with them. I'm thinking of using them to
cross with bubblegum for an updated
bubbleberry. I grew one F2 bubbleberry in my old setup, and while the couchlock
high really wasn't my thing, a lot of
my friends liked it, and it yielded very well. I plan on trying out some
romberry, and probably some of Soul's C-99
(although there are several other things that also sound very appealing).
All: hope i didn't miss anyone.
Be Safe
Dr. Evil
TOPIC - Soul mon
DATE - 22:26:10 12/20/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
i did read it over at CW and i quess i didn`t catch the Hydro Farm Quantum
The way it is written is sounds like the
trays are sitting in a 4x8 flood table perfectly! lol must be my simple
mind.----To rehash my questions what did you use
for a table top for the 2 wks that it is in veg. ----and how is a H.F.
Quantum`s (which is rw slabs with 4in.slabs on top{or
in?} with 1in. cubes in the 4in cubes-- am i right so far?) getting their
water and nutrs.? TIA! I take it is a drip system?
TOPIC - loop
DATE - 17:18:34 12/20/99
FROM - Vic High
hell no to the private talk loop, lets share what we can with all ;) thanks
for the agricool description, looking forward to
seeing the pics. As for UV, I really don't have any definate thoughts yet.
Except that the plants that are the most
vigorous under them are the stinkiest. As for potency, jury is still out,
I have yet to notice any real trends. Mind you, I
have not grown a sinse crop since adding the UVb. Right now they are mounted
on the wall at each end of the 4 by 5
room, but I would rather mount them directly on each end of the aircooled
hood that is on a mover moving 18".
However, room is 4 feet wide exactly and is too tight for flo fixture to
move back and forth without getting hung up. Next
time I build a room, it will be 50" wide, haha.
TOPIC - tomatoes for the defense
DATE - 17:12:58 12/20/99
FROM - stemmage
here's an addy I bookmarked but I thought it was a joke since I saw no discussion on it
http://users2.50megs.com/tomahigk
oh yeah, there is even an offer for free seeds if you request before 1/1/2000
bon apetit
TOPIC -
DATE - 16:35:42 12/20/99
FROM - Vic High
Hey Cowboy, where's that thick skin you cow pokes are known for ;) Ya ain't getting deleted that easy, haha.
Say, got an interesting email, does anyone here have any input or advice?
"This may seem rather strange, but I ran across your web page when doing
a search for "THC tomatos." I work for a
defense attorney who has a client that is on probation (has to abstain
from marijuana use) and has had a revocation of
his probation come down because of testing postive for THC. His "defense"
is he ate THC tomatos, and that he got the
recipe from the internet. I have been unable to use the web site address
he gave me for this "recipe," and thought I
would ask you if you know of such a thing.
Thanks for your time,
XXXXX
TOPIC - water-cooled babble (long post...sorry)
DATE - 16:19:25 12/20/99
FROM - loop_hole
evil and others
My water-cooled set up is based on the agri-cool pro (the unit made of
polycabonate sp?). I constructed my own
reflectors to enable me to mount 1 ñ1000w HPS (hortilux) and 1-uncooled
400w mh horizontally nose to nose. My
reflectors are shaped in a slight V (as opposed to the usual ^) because
I run a stadium lighting set up. In my room I
only have 5-½' headspace total so all my water quick release fittings
had to be changed to 90-degree elbows to save
space and to run my lights in series. This is a problem to make sure theyíre
tight but still face the correct direction.
The other problem was that the material I used for my reflectors was slightly
thinner than the one agri-cool made and
had to make small shims between the intake/outlet fittings and lens so
they wouldnít leak. A real pain to set up but
have had no problems since. On the pro unit, the fittings screw directly
into the tapped polycarbonate body so you
want to be real careful not to strip these. Iíve been thinking of re-tapping
and
installing stainless heli-coils to save any
problems but the replacement lens is only about $100. Really, if I were
to do it again I would probably spring for the
classic model (glass and machined aluminum. More money but built to last.
Other problems in set up was to secure the hoses to enable them to work
on movers. Got it working well but again, if I
was to do it a gain I would just add more lights. I only move my light
about 14-16î and it was a real pain to set up but
works well now.
The system is hooked up as follows. Water in goes through a 0.1 micron
carbon filter, then through a 25 psi dropping
regulator, then through and flow adjustment valve then through a washing
machine solenoid (connected to the light
cycle timer) then through the lights and then down the drain. For 2-1000
watt light my flow is just over ½ litre per
minute and here in eastern Canada that comes out to $5 a month for water.
In the shop where I purchase them, they
run water to water heat exchanger and a circulating system. They used more
water to waste through the exchanger
than I do and were constantly fighting algae problems. I have a very slight
algae problem (barely visible and I wash the
lens (in place, on the reflectors) with a little dish soap and H2o2 after
ever crop. Takes no time and they wash up
perfect.
I suspect light losses of about 20% and with a slight shift in spectrum.
If every being equal, I suspect your yield to
decrease by 20% but because of my mixed spectrum and moving them my yield
has been just fine.
In a 300 cubic foot room/box, my temps when running continuous ventilation
is slightly on the low side (75 degrees) but
when running c02 and venting 6 minutes every hour my temps and plant tops
is a perfect 85. I use lots of small floor
fans to keep thing constantly moving. The plastic lens are cool to the
touch. The overheating cut off switch works
perfectly.
UV and water-cooled. Iím sure almost no UV will pass through the water
jacket. Iím not sure how much UV a standard
mount hps has but I suspect not much either. I get my UV through the 400
mhís. I did buy 2 true UVb medical type
bulbs that I intended to use on the reflectors but my bulbs are 4í long
and my reflector only 3í. Because of my limited
space and the hassle I had hooking up my lights in the first place I decided
not to install them. Kind of waiting to her
feedback from Vic on his UV experiments before I create a lot of work for
my self. So Vic, what happening?
It might be hard to visualize my set up but I have some great pictures
(in a plant free room) that will make it all clear. Iíll
try to get them scanned this week and will post them at CW. I have some
pictures of my room full of plants but Iíll only
send them to anyone that Iíve had communication with via private e-mail.
Just ask, you know who you are.
Sorry for the long post.
Vic, should we take this private?
Loop_hole
TOPIC - please delete post below
DATE - 16:15:12 12/20/99
FROM - poster boy
please delete the post below as it was posted before cowboy realized his
info wasnt valid.
thanks
TOPIC - rx and sea of green
DATE - 15:32:45 12/20/99
FROM - cowboy
Dude,the sea of green method was and is a widely distributed technique.I
believe their is even a video for sale that
outlines and details all the facts....only problem that i have heard about
the system is the massive number of plants
that in the USA will get you a massive number of years in prison if you
get nabbed.I believe in the USA the federal
sentenceing guidelines go by how many "plants" in a grow wether its a 3
inch cut with no roots or a bush.I was
referring to ot1 growers assoc.friends
who somehow achive those massive yields.I believe that was explained earlier
in that the assoc. uses 12 to 14 week
strains.
later
TOPIC - Hydro
DATE - 13:07:38 12/20/99
FROM - Soul
Gentleman Farmer_~
I don't flower on the ebb/flood table.
I described the set-up @ BG Help Desk (cannabisworld.com) if you want to
read it.
TOPIC - Soul
DATE - 08:36:06 12/20/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
wellll suck me dry and call me dusty!! you have changed to hydro? let me
pick myself off the floor LOL! ----i`m doing a
aero- floodtable comparsion right now. first time in a floodtable, what
did you use for a top for your flowering girls and for
your clones. I used mylar but found too much light getting into the root
area for what i like. i`m using 4in rw cubes
sitting on the bottom off the table. Some like to use grow rocks also but
i skipped on that one. Trying to make things
easier not harder lol! But out of this fooling around with the flood tables
i can see a better way lol ----aero/tables
heheheee next time!
so a question that i put fourth----has anyone played with aero/tables yet?---
i can see a much larger root space for the
roots to do their thing than pipes or gutters or square tubing. bigger
roots=bigger plants
TOPIC - exhaust
DATE - 08:00:19 12/20/99
FROM - Gentlemans Farmer
One of the best grows i had was when i added a extra light and things got
hot. The exhaust was on all the time and it
was very inclosed. Had to bounce the intake off the wall then dirrect it
right back to the lights as to try and cool them
down. The stadium effect( V ) grow was bathed in fresh air constantly.
When i messed with it and opened the V into
one long bleacher effect ( / ) the fresh air only reached the first half
of the plants. I thought that a good fan and the
exhaust at the other end would "flow" the fresh air through the other half
of the girls. End product was the first half had
a noticable differance in size. Ot1`s data and every ones thoughts on this
subject of co2 just confirms what i have seen
with me own eyes, thanks dudes+dudettes great thread!
My answer was to put in 2 fresh air inlets and BEEF up the exhaust! Also
making my room as small as possible,
easier to contol heat and humid in a smaller confined area than one huge
open area. think hanging mylar/roller binds or
the step better, nice light office dividers if ya have the room of course(dreaming)
. So my thought is, always intruducing
fresh air has been getting my co2 level up when the heat and lights come
on and using that extra heat and light that
Vic is talking about to it`s fullest by keeping the co2 as heavy as it
is outside at that given day. To keep from blowing
cold air on the girls, i bounce off a wall first then throw it all over
the place with fans. My girls don`t have tiny stocks, lol
rx can i take a stab, i think Vic was on the right track but just sniffin
down the wrong trail! lmao!----your plants are
looking great before you are adding the co2 and then they mess up? the
addition of the co2 is making your plants want
to get up and boogie but then you are not supplying them with enough food
and/or water. But thats how this simple
farmer thinks, then again that post was to far back to remember what the
main question was lol "side effects"
TOPIC - cowboy's query re massive yields
DATE - 03:01:30 12/20/99
FROM - rx
About two years ago, a special supplement to the NY times concerning our
subject, described a technique developed
by insiders in NYC called "sea of green", using 1kw and a rockwool hydro
set up with cuttings set very close togeather
( 3 or 4 inch centers) and which forced flowering while the plants were
still very short, reputedly delivered the massive
yields you mentioned, in a very brief period. There was a pic showing the
set up. I never tried it and did not keep the
paper. I'd like to know if you develop further info on this. Happy holidays
to all!
TOPIC - O'Crustys'
DATE - 01:39:58 12/20/99
FROM - -~
'ears to all ...
TOPIC - procrastination..hehe
DATE - 22:49:04 12/19/99
FROM - irish
of course, all procrastination. well, we are gonna have to race on those
pics. if you keep putting it off like me, then i
may send YOU a pic... LOL
happy holidays all.
will be talking to a friend tomorrow that runs a fully closed system. uses
the ac as dehumidifier, i think co2 injection.
the room sounds like vic and his clones, "i just don't touch em"... well,
more details tomorrow.
cg~ i just couldn't name any event my way that would "pinpoint you"...
hehe
TOPIC - MrSoul/Ot1/rx
DATE - 21:45:34 12/19/99
FROM - Strider
MrSoul.......seems like I remember you toying with the idea of going to
an air
conditioned set up a few months back..?
I run a little conditioned
system...basicly out of necessity. My grow is a converted feed/tack room.
Temps here are too high, too long. To use fans only. limiting..when and
how
many grows are available a year..
Based on OT1's advice that, a small room would suffer serious CO2 depletion
as plants matured without near contant venting. I did some foot/finger
work
and he's right... I Inject CO2 to maintain a level of 400 to 500 ppm in
my
grow and vent every 30 min. CO2 use is kept minimal and the plants get
what they need. when outside temps drop consistantly to below 50. I will
switch to a 125v. thermostat to bring on the fans to cool the room and
shut down the CO2 till warmer weather. :-)
rx.... I'm telling you
man...shell out for a hydrofarm .2 to 2 cu.ft hr injector, a couple of
20lb
CO2 bottles and a timer. its hassel free... Even if you dont live near
a metro
area bottles and refills can be obtained thru your local welder, convience
store, ect. Without attracting attention. you home brew...and have an
aquairium....refills are 11.00 to 15.00 U.S. Set up runs about 500.00 I
brew
and have carboys and all the trappings but, its such a hassel dealing with
all
that water weight and sugar every week... esp if you can't drink the end
product....grow temps are to high for brewing....just MHO........
Ot1...Let
me take the oportunity to thank you and the rest for the advice I have
recieved on this board. It has proved to be sound. my grow is basicly
healthy...and I'm happy :-)....plenty to work on...I still cant clone worth
a
F**K....:-). or run this damn word processor
TOPIC - Just for the record ...
DATE - 19:38:02 12/19/99
FROM - C.G.
I have never grown indoors. However, I do find it a very interesting subject.
Every container garden has some issues in
common, no matter what the crop.
As much as I enjoy growing the herb, my family & home have a much higher
priority. Due to the forfiture laws, an
indoor grow, even a very small one, is just too great a risk.
As for outdoors, well ... that's another story. Rest assured I've been out there and back.
I'll be sending Vic a sort of curriculum vitae, just to clear things up
a bit. My paranoia level is quite high, and there's no
need to pull rank in public.
irish is on the right track, but it will take more than a grasp of the obvious ... .
How many folks abstain for several days to cleanse the palate before sampling a new strain?
Just curious.
TOPIC - Irish
DATE - 17:10:44 12/19/99
FROM - sb
Hey Bud
I haven't been able to load my camera software because of a faulty $15
floppy drive.What took so long you ask? Dunno
really, guess that floppy isn't very important anymore.hehe
Problem is fixed and I've got new CO clones in the box along with some
other yummies currently in flower(p50 x p50,
a13, genius, UW,JH x Williams wonder a skunk specimen and more on the way).I'll
have some various pics soon,
including some 200x gland shots. If I can only find the disc I'll have
the intelplay digi Microscope running .
CG
I don't mean to sound rude...genuinely(sp?) curious.
TOPIC - hey sb...
DATE - 15:25:55 12/19/99
FROM - irish
CG does not grow pot, that's illegal, ask about romberry pumpkins, or skunk squash... hehe.
did you ever find that cali o picture?
my guess on location, sounds like it is an event with lots of "free pot",
so a concert, is the dead still on tour?..
TOPIC - Einstien Oil
DATE - 14:57:45 12/19/99
FROM - The_Reaper
I am trying this new stuff called einstien oil.it is suspost to sterilze
the mite so they cannot not reproduce and end up
dying.i have been using it for about 7-10 days and i do believe it is doing
something i cannot find a live mite when i
checked today and some eggs look dries or something.has any one else used
this stuff and if so what results did you
get,,any info on how to destroy these devil bastards will be greatful
thanks
The reaper
TOPIC - Dr.Evil
DATE - 12:34:04 12/19/99
FROM - sb
Dude, thanks for the heads up on the mite thing.It hadn't crossed my mind
and I'm scheduled to volunteer at a tree
sales lot this afternoon. I've been mite free for only about 4-5 months
and all I can think now is "WHEW".
CG
Just curious...do you grow pot?
rx
funny how we all grow the best isn't it? No really I mean it.hahaha
I'll put my buds up against ANYBODY in the quality department as would
many on these boards.The act of growing a
completely healthy/productive plant is not very difficult.It's the tweaking
for that extra 20% or so that lead to many of
the difficulties that people experience.IMO.
Some may have better genetics, but thats a horse of a diff feather isn't
it.
TOPIC - CO2
DATE - 09:51:37 12/19/99
FROM - MrSoul
I too have never read any credible accounts by a respected grower claiming CO2 improved anything DRAMATICALLY.
In my own experience, I've found that any room in which one places sufficient
HID lighting to grow a lb or more needs
essentially CONSTANT ventilation to control the heat...sucking OUT the
CO2!
So what do you guys do...use recirculating air conditioners along with
the CO2 enrichment systems? Or do you grow
in a basement in Fairbanks, AK?
{"8^)_~
TOPIC - CO2 - UV-B - etc.
DATE - 09:48:33 12/19/99
FROM - C.G.
Vic: You're probably quite right about circulating fans being the most
efficient way to make best use of whatever volume
of CO2 is in the air, whether fresh or not. The added benefit would be
the slight stress that this breeze puts on the
plants, forcing them to act more like "real" outdoor plants and expend
a little more energy on the stems and stalk. It's
always looked a little weird to see indoor grows full of stakes and strings
holding up the plants. There's always going to
be a tradeoff whenever we diverge from the "natural order". But then again,
maybe it's just an outdoor gardeners
peculiar predjudices ... I've never given a second thought to using cages
around my tomatos.
Which brings us to the use of water-cooled lights. I suspect that there
is a trade-off here that hasn't been addressed.
While the build-up of heat is always going to be a problem when using HID
lights, these water cooled units probably
lower the amount of available UV to about zero. If the Dutch growers have
skewed their breeding with the use of lights
with glass coverings, as has been suggested in previous posts, sending
the light through water would seem to be
making matters worse.
We're lookling forward to the results of those UV-B studies.
Dr. Evil : Nice try on the puzzle, but you're off by hundreds and hundreds
of miles, as the crows flies, and even farther
via Interstate highways since there's no direct path. Follow your ears.
Actually, there was no prior intent to put obscure
clues in that message, but after having written it, we realized that they
were in there and figured "what the hey". It went
completely against the grain of our usual paranoia, but maybe we were still
loaded. It wouldn't be the first time we woke
up stoned, ( or the first time commiting a collosal blunder in such a state
either. )
Just what does Santa have packed in that pipe anyway? What's his favorite strain?
Just curious.
TOPIC - Hear hear Vic!
DATE - 09:26:41 12/19/99
FROM - MrSoul
I can dig the attitude Vic...a man's home is his castle IMO.
TOPIC -
DATE - 08:42:38 12/19/99
FROM - Vic High
rx - your are wrong to assume this page is about free speach. An emotional
subject for some, but I will not be shy
about saying that I practice censorship. You see, this is my home and I
have a right to choose what I listen to in my
home, and how my guests are treated. I can fully appreciate how this will
not suite everyone, that's not a problem,
there are other venues available such as Cannabis World's Jungle room.
Some of us growers are old and crusty bud and would like to debate and
challange each other without taking things to
a personal insult level, that's all.
Dr Evil - thanks for the warning!!
TOPIC - reply to peacness
DATE - 02:36:33 12/19/99
FROM - rx
Thanks for your concern. I am fine - in fact I enjoyed myself, maybe too
much. I never get mad. Everybody knows thc
reduces testesterone in older males to a point they can't sustain anger.
Hang loose, rock on!
P.s. to every one - my ventilation is great. I have a cyclone in a closet.
Two fans exaust the air from 6'x6' closet.The
door remains open when the lights are on Absolutly neccessary to prevent
heat build up. I water and feed on the lower
margin to avoid over feeding and watering problems. Build up of salts is
not a problem.Souring soil is not a problem. I
have never experienced pot that would'nt burn such as I have read on this
board. I'm going to type this real slow and
maybe you will get it - these are healthy, vigorus, robust plants that
deliver the highest quality product.You would envy
them if you saw them. Heartfelt, I am sorry you don't believe that.
TOPIC - vic and managment
DATE - 01:12:38 12/19/99
FROM - rx
Dear Vic: You sound like you are the manager of this board. Congratulations
on the picture in the header. It is what
brought me here for a visit. Reminds me of my own stuff I enjoyed the argument
with popeye and ot1. After reading their
recent posts, they seem none the worse for the wear. Apparently, you are
the sensitive one. I suggest the threshold of
free discussion starts with kiss my a**. In the context whereused it was
intended to convey the meaning "take it or
leave it", and was not an actual solicitation. If anyone took it literally,i
apologize. While you claim to encourage open
and free discussion you shy away from controversy - argument - disagreement
- verbal brick bats. What I know of
growers is they are a pretty crusty lot. Boys will be boys but they can
take it - let free speech reign. Look at the intrest
this little controversy stired up and favorable comments, too. I'll bet
your hit counter soared. Come on, do'nt be such a
prude! Frankly I can't say whats ok and whats not. Its hard to follow the
rules when they are not clear. Please do delete
my posts. I think some editng would improve the site. Thank you for the
service
TOPIC - Just heard on news a minute ago...
DATE - 23:21:51 12/18/99
FROM - Dr. Evil
Hi again all,
I was half listening to the news as I was sending my previous message,
when a story came on about people bringing
pests into their houses on Christmas trees. A tree saleman interviewed
discounted the whole thing, except he said
most of the trees are carrying SPIDER MITES. You all may want to check
out your trees, if they are anywhere near
your grow. That could really mess up your Christmas.
HTH
Dr. Evil
TOPIC -
DATE - 23:10:52 12/18/99
FROM - Dr. Evil
Hi all,
Loop: What I'm mainly interested in with the water-cooling is, how effective
are they, what model are you using, what
kind of heat exchange (exchanger, run to waste, etc.), any changes you'd
make to the system if you had to do it all
over, that sort of thing. I know that is a pretty involved list of questions,
but I'm trying to avoid re-inventing the wheel as
much as possible. Now there are a few different models of these things
out there, and I'd rather get the input of
someone who has actually used them before laying out the cash. I haven't
heard anyone say anything bad about them,
and all the data in the advertising seems sound, but it usually does. Just
trying to do my homework.
OT1: I suppose a change of air every couple of hours wouldn't hurt me.
Still, I think a semi-sealed system, built as I
described, but with the occasional change of air might be best for my current
situation. I suppose part of my paranoia
comes from the noise level of my old system, which was admittedly substandard.
I used to cringe every time the thing
came on. This time, I'm not going to get any plants going until I've got
my setup as close to the way I want it as I can
make it. It may add some time to getting things going, but a little peace
of mind is worth a lot.
PS, I'm wondering if you are considering cubing your ES clone, especially
since you already have an F1 to backcross
with. The ES sounds like something really special, particularly to those
of us that like sativas.
All: On the great CO2 controversy, one thing to be pointed out is that
manufacturing CO2 by fermentation is even less
efficient than the chemistry suggests, because most strains of yeast stop
fermenting at about 10-12% alcohol level, so
most of the sugar goes unfermented. Even though some strains of yeast will
go longer (champange yeasts), none
exceed about 18% alcohol. If someone found one that would reach 90%, you
could make a fortune, as it would do
away with the need for distilleries to make concentrated alcohol. That
being said, I'm inclined to think rx's results are
largely due to the fact that his setup, and possibly contributed to by
altitude, is suffering from insufficient ventilation. If
the fermentation setup works for him, great, although I think there are
better ways to get there. Just my opinion.
C.G. : on your riddle you posted earlier as to location, I'd like to venture
a wild guess-- Knoxville, based on the phrase
"volunteer bowls". The semi-rural college town sounds like my old home.
Hint: War Eagle (if my guess is anywhere
close you might get that one).
Happy Holidays all,
Be Safe
Dr. Evil
TOPIC -
DATE - 22:40:42 12/18/99
FROM - hand
supercharger,more air goes in than comes out,pressure should increase.high
pressure feels better than low pressure.
do different gasses separate at high speed maybe?if so you could use exhast
air speed to increase co2 levels force
feed. do plants grow faster under high pressure outside?
TOPIC - Wow, this page was busy today!!
DATE - 21:39:04 12/18/99
FROM - Vic High
rx - I hear ya and I fully realized you were not the first to cast a stone.
But the stones kept getting bigger and I had to
draw a line someplace. You and Popeye are new aliases so I just wanted
to communicate with you before I started
deleting posts. The others have been around long enough to why they were
deleted if I decide to start, hehe. Haven't
deleted in months and I really like it that way, was just hoping for some
help from you in keeping it that way. Don't
worry about anybody believing you, who cares about that. Just relay your
observations the best you can, that's all
anyone can ask of ya. Some time ago I was involved in a dolomite lime debate
where basically everyone here would
say I was wrong. No biggie, many of us learned something in that exchange
regardless of who was right. And that's
what we're here for right?
Anyway, back to your CO2 observations. The more I read from you, the more
it all makes sense, but not for the
reasons you suspect. Everything you say clearly suggests increased plant
respiration and photosynthesis by adding
CO2. Not sure what level your understanding of plant physiology is, so
please forgive me if I'm saying anything you
already know. But as plants absorb CO2, they also absorb H20. And as they
absorb additional water, they absorb
more of the nutes in the medium so the drying you are seeing may be from
a previously undetected overfeeding
problem? Or salt buildup problem? Speeding up the plants has a way of amplifying
problems. And the description of
your plants prior to the CO2 addition suggests what others have suspected,
that your ventilation was inadaquate.
Anyway, all in all, I too have seen the benefit of adding CO2, just trying
to explain the reason for it. Peace dude.
Chronic Man - that soil additive you mentioned for increasing CO2 reminds
me of a CO2 tablets discussion at
Cannabis.com a while back. They may help the plants in various ways, but
I very seriously doubt that the benefits
could be coming from added CO2. However, this is about learning new ideas,
so please, any info you or anyone can
dig up, I'm all ears. BTW glad those romberries are starting to work for
ya, hope the aroma isn't noiding you out too
much, haha.
popeye - appreciate your info, but please back off as well dude. Comments
such as yours will kill a discussion rather
than enhance it. It would be cool for you, rx and the rest of us to feel
comfy continuing putting our ideas out. Right or
wrong, the discussions will help us all learn.
pizza - huh? me no understand dude.
OT - was that an ESB post?? LOL. Keep it coming bud, I haven't used the
delete button in months, don't plan to start
with you ;)
CO2 revisited - CG and others, best way I have found to improve the efficiency
of the CO2 in the grow room is to add
lots of air movement to the room. This can easily compensate for lower
CO2 levels as long as the air is frequently
exchanged. ;)
TOPIC - Can CO2 be improved?
DATE - 17:08:46 12/18/99
FROM - C.G.
My eyes glaze over when presented with a combination of chemical formulas
and mathematics. But, athough most of
the information is lost on me when presented in that form, it's great that
we have posters who can rattle it off. ( even
while under the spell of the weed from hell )
So ... it looks like the effective
use of outside ventilation is less hassle, and has lower costs, than any
form of CO2 supplementation. The next
question that comes to mind is: Can we alter that air to make it better,
or make the existing levels of CO2 more
available or usable to the plant?
Is there any way to change a volume of air in such a way that all of the
CO2 is in a dextro-rotary form? I suspect it can't
be done in an efficient way, but this would effectively double the amount
of CO2.
Would air filtration, or the elimination of certain gasses, make a difference?
Since RO water is so good for plants,
wouldn't the equivalent form of air be likewise usefull?
What about negative ions? How do they affect the plant?
Is there some gaseous equivilent of a wetting agent that could make the
gas more missible and easier for plants to
absorb?
I remember seeing a display of a pattented, "coherent", form of water at
Disney World. The water ( H2O ) was
processed in such a way that it held its shape when squirted into the air.
As I recall, it was something along the lines
of a "polorized water". I wonder, is there an equivilent form of CO2, and
what effect would it have on the plant? How
would this type of water effect a plant?
Has anyone tried some of the other techniques that have been discussed
here in the recent months? There have been
no grow reports on the use of citric acid & raw sugar as a water supplement.
Has anyone tried playing soothing music
for their plants?
Just curious.
TOPIC -
DATE - 13:42:07 12/18/99
FROM - oldtimer1
Shit I just read through my post sorry about it I tend to ramble on when
stoned! All sorry about that! Vic hit the delete
button if its to boring. Ot1
TOPIC -
DATE - 13:22:09 12/18/99
FROM - oldtimer1
rx man are you hard to please! Part of my life I was a professional gardener
and part a qualified electrician, I am a work
with my hands man, Iím not an intellectual or science based person but
I reckon Iím a dam good gardener! As I said
before this site is like a virtual think tank, ideas get thrown in here
if they are interesting they get taken to bits, chewed
over, more info gets put in and we all learn out of it and so it goes on
untill its done! So for you and others who want to
use fermentation===>
In the simplest terms, alcoholic fermentation consists of the conversion
of sugar to ethyl alcohol and carbon
dioxide.Chemically this can be written as follows:
Sugar = C6 HI2 O6 fermentation ==> 2 CO2[carbon dioxide] + 2 C2 H5 OH [ethyl alcohol]
If each molecule is represented as a gram, The atomic weight of hydrogen is 1 and oxygen 16 then H x 2 + O = H2O =
[2 x 1] + [1 x 16] = 18. ie 2 grams hydrogen + 16 grams of oxygen produces
18 grams of water. To apply the same
principle to the fermentation equation all that needs to be known is the
atomic weight of carbon; this is 12.
So C6 H12 O6 = (6 x 12) + (12 x 1) + (6 x 16) = 180 grams >through fermentation
gives you 2 CO2 + 2C2 H5 OH This
gives you
2 x [12 +(2 x 16]{= 88 grams of carbon dioxide} + 2 x[(2 x 12)+(5 x 1)+16+1]{=
92 grams of ethyl alcohol} So a 180
grams of sugar will, if fermentation is complete, produce 88 grams. of
carbon dioxide and 92 grams. of ethyl alcohol,
This represents just under 49% of the original sugar weight as CO2. Now
complete fermentation is near impossible no
matter how good the nutrient/ph balance of the fermenting must is! Generally
speaking 90% is done in the first 3 weeks
the remainder takes months! So you would be pretty safe to use 44% of the
sugar weight as a basis to work to ie 10
lbs of sugar will give 4.4 lbs of CO2. Well rx thats about it for fermentation
and CO2 I know its only junior school stuff
but there are phdís and a nuclear physicist that come here, Iím sure they
will kick me in the "Kiss my ass" bits if Iíve
got it wrong!
Plants can only grow by using light as an energy source to make sugar from
CO2! Its called photosynthesis and is part
of the carbon cycle! From this stems all life on earth! Plants absorb CO2
from the atmosphere use light to split the
components into carbon and oxygen molecules. The oxygen is expelled and
the carbon made into the building blocks
of the plant. The bud you smoke was made from the the CO2 the plants absorbed
from the atmosphere not the soil,
water or come to that nutrients in the soil!
rx having read your final comments on CO2 the above and what I have written
before should help improve your grow
weights and the health of your plants if you really look at it with an
open mind! The thing that beggars a question! Have
you got a ventilation system with an input and extract fans??
Peaceness
1) do you grow the esb in soil or hydro?
==> The whole system is with organic soil based compost!
2) I grow in rockwoool on an ebb'n flow table, what compensations should
i make?
==> I donít think you need to make any
3) Do all of the various esb phenotypes (from seed) each yield impressively?
(55 oz per 1k (lick))?
===> In the seed generation plants produced from 37 to 52 grams of dried
bud they were grown at 2 plants to the sq ft
the overall average was 47 grams!
4)do you grow out the esb as (a) a single cola(see of green) or as (b)
multitopped?
I bred it for a close single cola form, it has a strong stem! May be try
some multy headers in the clone generation if you
find a keeper!
5) what is the purpose of switching the light cycle to 11/13, as opposed
to 12/12?
==> It has a lot of sat in its make up 11/13 helps them to settle into
flowering mode quicker!
6) why do you then revert to 12/12 after the 11/13 cycle?
==> It suits the other vars in the grow with more indica in them. I usually
have 6 to 10 vars in a grow each having its
own profile, they are set out by height to make a stadium effect!
Take a look at webbies there are a couple of picks and info there as well!
loop_hole Yes I trim out side branches at 2 nodes but leave enough sidies to fill the canopy.
Additional info from feedback Iíve had that sort of goes with my own experiences.
It produces slightly more males than
fems. There seem to be two finish times between 7 and 8 weeks and 10 weeks!
The form is the same with both! The
earlier ones are lighter yielders the later ones have a similar stone but
are much stronger with more up! I have had 2
hermies reported out of about 200 femís. They like a lot of light and in
my opinion the high is better if there is some
halide in the lighting mix when flowering.
Dr. Evil I did read somewhere about using CO2 and a sealed room environment!
I canít remember exactly but I think
there were serious probs with a build up of toxic gas byproducts! If the
area isnít to large the odd few minís every
couple of hours to change the air canít be that bad! Portable Air con units
have 4 to 6 inch wall terminals can be used
for cooling and heating. Some of the silent fans are so quiet now apart
from the air noise! A meter of acoustic ducting
silences that as well, one of these to an air con terminal shouldn't look
suspicious! When I say quiet I mean quiet a
desk fan on low speed is way louder.
Vic Iím still half way through writing I just keep getting diverted LOL!
As to yields summertime I tend to do mid 50ís and
winter time low 60ís per k.
All the best Ot1
TOPIC - correction
DATE - 12:35:20 12/18/99
FROM - loop
Chronic man- should read "not the best one i have..."
TOPIC - my last post to rx
DATE - 12:30:25 12/18/99
FROM - loop da loop
Rx-The fact that your plants are stunted, drooping or dying without co2
indicates that you have a serious problem in
your system (and that doesnít matter what elevation your at). What ot1
has been saying to you is that you probably
have a ventilation problem and the co2 is a band aid solution. It like
if you said that you could gain 15 lbs. of body
weight by drinking 10 glasses of water a day. We would all call bullshit
but what you failed to tell us is that you were
dying of dehydration. You in fact would (are)be telling the truth. What
weíve all been trying to say to you is that youíve
probably have larger issues to deal with. Deal with them or donít, we are
just truly trying to help.
Also, the yellowing and mottling of your leaves is probably due to the
excessive humidity from your fermentation
system and lack of ventilation/extraction (I am however only speculating).
If your leaves die, they can not use the co2
for photosynthesis.
Although I find you somewhat annoying (sorry), I do have to thank you for
kick starting this board. Did you ever post
under the names green avenger, smiley or jay smith?
One last comment on co2. As Vic said earlier, he is always surprised but
the poor use of light in grow rooms. I believe
that for some, the increased yield (beyond 20%) with co2, may be do to
the rapid growth filling out the canopy more
completely. Similar results could be obtained by putting more plants in,
changing pruning styles or vegging longer
without co2. This is why I stated that if your not getting a gram per watt
you have bigger things to worry about. A gram
per watt is just a standard I use for myself to let me know when Iíve got
things worked out. This will vary from grower to
grower.
About those huge yields: 80 ozís = 5lbs not 6. Donít forget that the co-op
members use mostly sats that are 12-14
weeks varieties. Outstanding yields by any standard. It is the same (yield
wise) as getting 2 ½ lbs. out of a 7-week
strain, entirely do-able but still excellent. Do whatever works for ya.
Evil- what info do you want regarding the water-cooled. Effectiveness,
maintenance, set up? Just ask
Iíve got some niffty photos of the set up Iíll post at cw next week.
I send that list I promised to you today.
Chronic man- I found shisk to be a medium to high yielder but best one
I have. The leaves were unbelievably big
(12-14î) that didnít work all that in my preferred planting density. I
also found the plant very ugly. That my sound like a
stupid reason to drop a plant but I like to have a cup of coffee and just
watch the plants in the morning (good for you
people with SAD) and I couldnít stand those ugly beast.
The high was nice and in my set up I got about 50 grams per foot2. I still
keep a clone alive but havenít grown it for a
while.
Hope that helps
Loop_hole
TOPIC - Pleasant Surprise
DATE - 10:54:05 12/18/99
FROM - C.G.
Yawn ... was out until the wee wee hours last night. At the conclusion
of a wonderful evenings entertainment, a few
folks were hanging in back, sharing some herb. When asked what variety
it was, their surprising reply was "Romberry".
This is one of the few times in recent memory when I've had the opportunity
to sample a bud where a "brand name"
was given ( correctly or not ). The unburned bud smelled sweet and subtle,
but in the dark there was no way to judge
the color or other visual elements. When hit with the fire, it went down
smooth. Not a hint of harshness. Whether this
was a characteristic of the genes, the growers technique, or the cure,
there was no denying the fine taste.
The folks with the bud didn't know if it had been grown indoors or out,
and given the season, it could have been either.
The point of origin was evidently a semi-rural college town in another
state.
Coming as it did on the heels of several other volunteer hits and a couple
of beers, it was difficult to judge the quality of
the buzz, but it definitely wasn't the usual schwag that's often passed
around at these events. We were able to function
quite well, or as well as could be expected, on the drive home.
So ... if nothing else, it seems that Vic's beans are getting around south of the border. My compliments to the chef!
PS: Just for the hell of it, the above message contains two hints by which
the location of the evenings bachanal might
be deduced. Can you find them? Just curious.
TOPIC - Sorry...
DATE - 09:24:43 12/18/99
FROM - Popeye
Apologies to rx for that one...Indeed, I read it as 20km, instead of 20k.
Talk about reading skills, heh heh. The rest still
stands, though. I'll leave this thread alone now, except for:
rx said: "...the exchange of sugar to co2 should be 1:1..."
Actually, 1 lb. of sugar produces .488 lbs (7.8 oz) CO2 and .513 lbs (8.2
oz) alcohol. :)
TOPIC - Miles
DATE - 09:04:40 12/18/99
FROM - Lurkin
Popeye, are you using Marlboro miles? Where I grew up (US) a mile is 5280
feet. Come to think of it a mile is 5280
feet in Canada too, they just like to measure in kilometers instesd. 12.5
miles would be 66,000 feet!!! 20,000 feet is
3.78 miles!! There is noticably less O2 in the air in Denver, Mexico City,
and other high altitude cities. No special
instruments are needed to notice this. Just go for a vigorous walk and
you'll be panting. Common sense tells me if
there is less O2, there's less CO2 and may account for rx,s results using
CO2 suppliments. Just my .02 worth.
TOPIC - Errrr....Popeye
DATE - 08:49:31 12/18/99
FROM - KQ.
the "20k'(just over three miles)" that rx refers to is 20,000 feet, if
you look very carefully. There is a foot abbreviation just
after the "k" which in this case means thousand. I believe kilometers would
be abbreviated km.
TOPIC - Tying to be civil...
DATE - 07:47:27 12/18/99
FROM - Popeye
rx...I have to wonder about your reading comprehension. If you reread the
data that I posted you may notice that I cited
my source; perhaps you should check it out instead of simply displaying
your ignorance.
You may have noticed that those posters who actually use CO2 have reported
essentially what I originally posted: CO2
supplementation may decrease total growth time, and will marginally increase
yield.
Initially, you claimed (twice) that fermented CO2 more than doubles your
yield. Then it was 30-50%, with better
potency and decreased odor and fungal disease. At best these were exaggerated
claims, or incorrect conclusions, if
not out-right bullshit.
BTW, 20k is not "just over 3 miles". It is, in fact, almost 12.5 miles.
Another mistake to go with all your others. So the
question is, where do YOU get YOUR information?
TOPIC - lighting
DATE - 05:39:22 12/18/99
FROM - pizza
my clones were transplanted into 2.5 gallon pots 18 days ago they are in
#2 sunshine mix i have had them under 24hr
light since being transplanted.they are now 13" high under 2k lights on
a tracker. i have to move soon so my question
is should i leave them under 24hr light till they hit 24" or go to 20on
and 4 off or leave them on 24hr
TOPIC - Co2 some good info...
DATE - 05:32:30 12/18/99
FROM - chronic man
Wow..good to see some good input concerning CO2 usage. You know, I never
used to use it, until a friend told me he
wouldn't go without using it. So I went out and spent around $450 for 2
20 pound CO2 bottles, a timer module from
Green Air, and a regulator. The first crop yielded about 15-20% more! And
another great thing, it finished a week to ten
days earlier! So ever since then, I've gone with it.
A close friend saw how much earlier I was harvesting, and that alone sold
him on CO2, but actually hes been trying
something called liquid CO2 that is added to the soil. It's being sold
at a small grow shop/dive near the Aurora bridge in
Seattle called Hydro Tech. (Where the dog there always sniffs your crotch...hehe)
The guy who owns the place tried to
sell me on it, and I think it was like carbon, and molasses, or some kind
of similar mixture. He was trying to tell me
that the carbon/molasses mixture fooled the plant into believing that CO2
was being produced. I was kinda hesitant, so
I turned it down. However my friend swears by it. I was thinking of trying
it on one or two plants, but I already use CO2,
so it might be kinda hard to tell. Has anyone else heard of this stuff?
I'm sure if anyone was REALLY interested they
could call info and get the number and call the guy. I think his name is
Richard. I'm not so sure about the stuff, it
sounds too good to be true to me, and it really doesn't make sense. But
we are on the topic of CO2, so I thought I'd
bring it up.
The only thing I really don't like is having to fill those damn bottles.
It costs around $45 for about ten days. That can get
expensive. I'm thinking about buying a propane powered setup. Theres only
one thing about it, the flame in it makes me
nervous. Fire is the one thing that really scares me about all of that
electricity being used, and having propane being
burnt sounds even worse. Do any of you have any experience with the larger
CO2 generators? I'm thinking about a unit
that will cover up to about 250 sq ft. (a pretty big one) I know Green
Air sells different sizes, and I was kinda thinking
about getting one that had some kind of way to measure the amount in the
room.
Vic, I'm really happy with the Romberry, it has a real nice lemony smell,
good quality with a good yield. A good
product. I'm also really impressed with Shishkaberry. It has a nice yield,
and an awesome fruity smell. Both are top
quality. I tried to get some more Shishk, this time from Breeder Steve,
but I'm not sure what his trip is, he never
returned my email, and I emailed him a few times. I got the Shisk last
time from Cash Crops Sens, via Marc Emery,
and was kinda dissapointed with the male/female ratio. (1 damn female out
of 11!!) So, I sent away for 30 more, figuring
I'm bound to find a better yielder than the one small female I got. Besides,
considering that Steve is charging a
whopping $150, I figured I could buy 30 seeds from ME, and have a better
chance at finding a keeper. I've already found
a keeper from the Rom, one that I've noticed is alot more pungent than
the others.
Loop- What did you think of Shisk? Do you think it's a big yielder? From
everyone I've heard from it is, and from the
rock hard nugs I can see why. I'm just hoping that I got a small female
last time. The one thing I really like about it is
the short flower time. It was done at around 40 days! Pretty damn fast.
One more thing, what is this about 6 pounds with one 1k light? That sounds
a little too good to be true. Let me know
how, and I'll save myself mucho dinero on the power bill.
Sorry to ramble,
Peace
cHrOnIc man
TOPIC - ot1's co2 experiment
DATE - 03:58:33 12/18/99
FROM - rx
This is my last word on co2.Ot1's co2 experiment is so at odds with my
own experience, using the micky mouse
generator, over a period of ten or fifteen crops, i want to point out dissimuarlities
not previously mentioned. Within a few
hours after introducing the generator to the grow closet, a marked improvement
in the coindition of the plants can be
noted, drooping leaves pick up, the plants green up& if growingt has
stalled. (usually a stall is what propels me into
action to set) the growing will recommence. With in a day all the fan leaves
will begin to show damage. The damage is
best described as burning - motteling, spots, yellowing. Eventually, two
or three weeks, the leaves are dead - brown
shrivled, hanging down - kaput. The buds and stems are doing fine. I attribute
this leaf damage to co2 which seems to
have a burning and drying effect. I also note that co2 seems to create
a condition that make the plants tolerate the very
high temperatures within an inch of the bulb.Ot1 has a walking around assumption
that the plants absorb the co2 and
his ppm readings showing a reduction of co2 levels when the lights come
on would seem to bear this out. I postulate
the effect of co2 is not to be absorbed but to create a drying condition
which permits the plants to transpire more
efficiently. The co2 seems to suck moisture out of the buds and leaves
and indeed water consumption soars from one
gallon to 1.5 gallon daily. This increased water consumption is the most
marked and measuarble effect of using co2. I
do not immagine a ferment produces a great volume of co2. However the exchange
of sugar to co2 should be 1:1 - ten
pounds of sugar, ten pounds of co2. During the peak of flowering (floresence),
I try to have two generators in place and
bubbeling at full tilt. My generator vents directly into the rear of a
six inch fan blowing over the tops. In a way the co2 is
supercharged. My crops are better than you seem to think.Any way thats
what I wanted to tell you. You may not need
700 ppm or 1000 ppm to do the trick. To write this far has taken me 50
minutes. I don't have this kind of time to spend
on you. "Hasta lombego", as we say.
TOPIC - esb
DATE - 03:16:08 12/18/99
FROM - Peaceness
hey guys. this is some real good topic/conversation.
rx: you are OK man. this forum is conductive to learning and its all good
to vent once in a while. we're all human, but
beleive me, everyone here is real friendly, nothing personal though. Glad
you are around to post and such. stand tall
brother. :)
Hi OT1: i have decided that i will start the esb's. have just a few more questions before i get started:
1) do you grow the esb in soil or hydro?
2) I grow in rockwoool on an ebb'n flow table, what compensations should i make?
3) Do all of the various esb phenotypes (from seed) each yield impressively? (55 oz per 1k (lick)) ?
4)do you grow out the esb as (a) a single cola(see of green) or as (b) multitopped?
5) what is the purpose of switching the light cycle to 11/13, as opposed to 12/12?
6) why do you then revert to 12/12 after the 11/13 cycle?
Sorry for all the questions, i just want to follow it to the "t". dont
want to miss any variables.will start tomorrow. thanks
mate!
-Peaceness
p.s. do you have any knowledge of columbian skunk? just obtained a w.w
hybrid of it through recent auction. just
curious.
TOPIC - vic high and vulgarity
DATE - 02:06:32 12/18/99
FROM - rx
I am a little tired of popeye in particular and ot1 calling me a liar.
Honestly, i don't think their info is all that terrific.
Every assumption they have made about me is wrong and they rush to the
damdest illogical conclusions I have ever
seen. Then they make up data from thin air to support their outrageous
contentions rather than admit they are wrong
or, more often, just don't know. Rude for rude is my motto. It's the only
way to get the attention of the self centered
know it all.
TOPIC - vic high and vulgarity
DATE - 02:05:39 12/18/99
FROM - rx
I am a little tired of popeye in particular and ot1 calling me a liar.
Honestly, i don't think their info is all that terrific.
Every assumption they have made about me is wrong and they rush to the
damdest illogical conclusions I have ever
seen. Then they make up data from thin air to support their outrageous
contentions rather than admit they are wrong
or, more often, just don't know. Rude for rude is my motto. It's the only
way to get the attention of the self centered
know it all.
TOPIC - popeye and 60 miles of homogenous atmosphere
DATE - 01:49:29 12/18/99
FROM - rx
Dear popeye- Your data filled post concerning atmospheric homogenity up
to 60 miles is incredible. My guests here
from sea level find themselves gasping for breath and turning blue with
the slightest exertion untill they acclimate
believe their condition is due to the thin air. At 20k'(just over three
miles) human beans pass out and die if they don't
have o2 supplement. where do you find such information? I think you should
check your sources and stop embarassing
yourself.
TOPIC - CO2, etc.
DATE - 21:02:33 12/17/99
FROM - Dr. Evil
Hi All,
I'd like to comment on Popeye's data concerning Co2 concentrations at altitude.
Both Popeye and Rx are right in a
way, depending on how you look at things. The ppm (concentration as a proportion
of the total of all the gases
composing the air) is essentially unchanged at altitude. However, with
increased altitude, the partial pressure (amount
of CO2 as a proportion of volume) drops to the same degree as do all the
other gases in the atmosphere. IOW, the
parts per million are unchanged, just less millions of atoms. So this,
along with ventilation issues, probably explains
the differences in results. HTH
OT-1: I find your results interesting concerning the drastic drop in CO2
levels with lights on. While I realized that plants
uses a lot of CO2, I didn't expect that much of a drop. The reason it piqued
my interest was that I'm considering
attempting a sealed system (no ventilation). The system would use water-cooled
lighting (eliminating the excess heat),
CO2 monitering and enrichment as necessary, and a dehumidifier to remove
transpired water from the air. While a little
more expensive to start out, the system would eliminatea lot of security
concerns (no infrared signature, no ventilation
noise, and easier to control odors). To an observer outside, the room would
appear completely normal. Of the security
concerns I mentioned, vent noise would be the biggest, and your Co2 results
indicate to me that I would need more
noisy ventilation than I'd be comfortable with under my new circumstances.
Aside from security issues, I think this type
of setup could be done with less impact to the building it is used in (less
necessity to cut through walls for duct work,
etc.). Comments?
Loop: Any comments you care to make on the water-cooled lights would be
welcome, for the reasons listed above. The
idea of getting control of the growing environment without the need for
noisy ventilation systems intrigues me.
As for the genetics you offered, I'm interested. If you could send me a
list, I'd appreciate it greatly.
P.S. The e-mail screwup was a result of my not noticing that when my e-mail
service was overhauled by the provider a
few months ago (when I was not using it much), they reconfigured the addressing
script to put in the registered users
name into the return address. I should have caught that before. My bad.
That explains why a few e-mails I've sent to
various people have gone astray (including one to you a couple months back).
Whoops.
Anyway, be safe all
Dr. Evil
TOPIC - CO2
DATE - 19:18:02 12/17/99
FROM - Vic High
rx - welcome to my humble abode dude. Your input is much welcome, especially
if your ideas conflict with the norm.
Hard to learn if we all think the same ;) However, we try to keep the discussions
on a slightly more civil level bud, and
avoid personal attacks such as "Kiss my ass". I appreciate your understanding
dude. Popeye, ditto dude ;)
Ot - making up for lost time? LOL, It's really good to see you back in the saddle my friend. Missed ya :)
On rx's observations, I can see how he would observe what he did. I get
to see alot of gardens here and there and it
always amazes me how most growers work with inadaquate ventilation and
how many waste light. I think a modest use
of CO2 would very much help compensate for these two shortcomings and a
grower could observe yield increases as
rx observed. The most obvious advantage would be as OT suggested, inadaquate
ventilation. As for wasting light, I see
this on many levels. First, many gardens are way brighter than most plants
can effectively use. CO2 can help a plant
utilize the extra lumens. A second light waste I often see is inadaquate
canopies where much light gets though to light
up the floor, what a waste. If you take two clones and put them into flower
at 8 inches, the one under CO2 should
outgrow the one without and finish bigger. I have found that CO2 at the
start of flowering builds bigger thicker plants and
stalks, translating to bigger yields.
A plant can only grow as fast as it's weakest link will allow. A plant
can only maximize it's CO2 use if lighting, temps,
nutrient, and moisture needs are met. Same could be said for any of these
needs of the plant. I know these comments
are on a much simpler level than some of you are discussing, just thought
it needed mentioning for others ;)
I've played with CO2 burners and bottled CO2 in smaller setups, and despite
my inability to use it efficiently, I have
seen improvement by using it. My downside was that I could never turn off
my ventilation (exhausting ozone and odour)
so I have no idea how high my CO2 levels got. I really need one of those
expensive monitors before I waste more CO2,
haha. My CO2 levels weren't in excess I suspect, because I didn't notice
a decrease in bud quality, in fact, if anything,
I would say I ended up with a greater proportion of the higher quality
nugs. I attributed this to the plants looking
healthier and not a direct result of the CO2. Like most things in life,
I think moderation is the key. Bump the CO2 to
levels of about 500 - 700 ppm, most gardens are incapable of using more
efficiently. And according to the manual "How
to Supercharge your garden", excess CO2 is harmfull to the plants. It didn't
mention why though. Just suggests to
gradually increase your CO2 and monitor your crop's responce to it.
OT - 80 oz with 1K of lighting? is that a typo? I have yet to learn how
to get half of that with a 1K on a mover moving
18", haha.
Hello and Seasons Greetings to those I missed as well :)
TOPIC - theoretical vs. actual
DATE - 14:46:20 12/17/99
FROM - loop
Ot1- thanks again for your excellent post regarding your experience with
co2.
Similarly, I use the green air monitor but without the controller and relays.
I use it like one would use a pH pen. I take
my measurements, adjust my flow rate valve and timers and play till I get
it right. In my set up I use co2 at 1000ppm
from week 2-5 or 3-6 depending what variety I using. I found that if I
use it past then, the plants want to continue to
grow and not completely finish. When I was growing shisk, I was able to
get it to finish in 42 day (as opposed to 48
without). Again with shisk, the leaves got huge but I never noticed the
buds being leafier. Potency seemed the same
and yield was increased slightly (less the 10%) but saving 6 days on 48
was worth the price of admission. Since then
Iíve been playing with so many different strains I honestly couldnít say
what the differences are. Time to do another
crop without to set up a base line. Will report back.
One more quick question for you. Do you prune the side branches when growing
esb? Do they need support?
Popeye- good info, thanks.
Mickey- you read as well as rx. Ot1 uses a sophisticated inferred monitoring
device to know what the actual (as
opposed to theoretical) levels are in the room. Around here theyíre close
to $1k. He also uses the controller, that keeps
the level within a specified + or - range (about $400) relays to control
fans ($200-$900 and possibly (he didnít say) a
generator that uses natural gas or propane to create co2.
The first time I set up co2 I used a regulator, flow gauge and timer and
calculated my usage. My results were
reasonably lackluster. I rented a monitor from a local grow shop and like
ot1, was surprised what the actual readings
were. Never calculated in how much the plants actually used and/or how
much my seemingly airtight space leaked.
Even with back-draft dampers on both intake and exhaust fans, I go through
3 x the co2 than I predicted. Rent a
monitor for the day (probably cost you $25) you might be in for a surprise.
TOPIC - oldtimer1, did i read right?
DATE - 14:03:06 12/17/99
FROM - cowboy
ot1,i saw below a statement that certainly got my attention.I think i saw
you say that some folks can pull off about 6
elbows of buds under a 1k?Is this correct or did i misread ,and if it is
correct i would be so very very interested in
reading and learning a whole lot more about the SYSTEM that produces these
type yields.if this is true it makes my
friend feel like he has been literally wasting his electricity and lights.We...
and i am sure i can speak for everyone
would definately like to know more.
later
TOPIC -
DATE - 12:59:47 12/17/99
FROM - oldtimer1
Popeye I know naff all about physics but its not hard to use tools! I had
assumed that as the air thinned with altitude
that the ppm would reduce! Thereís no fool like an old one LOL! When I
first got the reader I use to play with it a lot it
can be unplugged from the system and be used as a hand held portable devise.
Any how outside the level has never
gone below 330 ppm and the highest I recorded was just under 400 ppm. This
is in a large city centre. Just for interest
sakes in the grow room if you shut the ventilation off and the plants are
at their maximum growth rate the co2 levels
drop rapidly to the low tens in 15 to 20 mins. I donít think they would
ever zero out completely. Iím not sure what the
real bottom level would be as I was either in there breathing or letting
air in when I went in to look! The room is not
airtight either, whatever the plants use the co2 up very rapidly. Thanks
for the info on altitude and co2, Iíll have to stop
making uneducated guesses, I was just looking for a way rx could be speaking
the truth but for the wrong reason, so
the only skittle still standing could be low air exchange! That is unless
you can tell me something different, Iím all
ears!!!
All the best Ot1
TOPIC - Oldtimer1 and other co2 skeptics
DATE - 12:51:07 12/17/99
FROM - micky mouse
Please leave me out of this controversy. I paid $400 for my bottled co2
dispenser: a cylinder along with a regulator and
a valve operatd with a timer. It works fine. If you paid $4000 for the
same thing your vendor probably put something else
in the cylinders. Maybe it was laughing gas.
TOPIC - CO2 at varying altitudes
DATE - 11:42:04 12/17/99
FROM - Popeye
OT1...your diplomacy is unmatched, but hey, I'm just a loud-mouthed colonial...heh
heh.
Your comments regarding the % of atmospheric CO2 at altitude piqued my
curiosity.
>The first 60 miles (100 km) of Earth's atmosphere consists of a uniform,
or homogeneous mixture...Carbon dioxide
(CO2) 325 parts per million...Atmospheric CO2 concentrations at Niwot Ridge,
Colorado, U.S.A., 3749 m above MSL:
356.8 ppm
Atmospheric CO2 concentrations at Barrow, Alaska, U.S.A., 11 m above MSL:
367.73 ppm
Atmospheric CO2 concentrations at Key Biscayne, Florida, U.S.A., 3 m above
MSL: 357.4 ppm<
Conway, T.J., P.P. Tans, and L.S. Waterman. 1994. Atmospheric CO2 records
from sites in the NOAA/CMDL air
sampling network.
The data suggests that CO2 levels are not significantly different at MSL
to well over 12000 feet above MSL.
I would think it's a reasonable assumption, (yikes!) that good ventilation
should keep CO2 at adequate levels regardless
of altitude.
TOPIC -
DATE - 10:24:50 12/17/99
FROM - oldtimer1
Hi Peaceness you can see the old ticker is working a bit better again haha.
I have just put 16 esb in my own grow from
my fav mum. This is my first grow of this clone selection I should have
a good idea what clones of this var can do from
a selected mum late feb, is there any particular info you want. They went
into their finish pots [4 litre] at 6 inches on
20/4 for 7 days untill rooted through. Going to 11/13 they were 11 to 13
inches now 12 days later they are between 37
and 42 inches so growth if fairly rapid they are all looking pretty good,
once stretching slows and flowering is fully
initiated I will bring them back to 12/12. They are spaced 2.4 to the sq
ft, there are 8 clone vars in an 8 x 4 space 78
plants total under 2 k of mixed light. At present no liquid feed has been
given they are living on Ro water and the
compost! Its funny but some of the co-op members do way better than me,
the record was just over 80 oz per k, canít
do it myself must getting to old lol!
rx I probably mentioned that I thought the Dutch breeders were going down
the pan. Of what Iíve tried recently JH, nl5 x
Hz, WW, ak47 and KM I have not found one keeper. Iím not qualified to talk
about Indicas as they aren't my fav tipple
and Iím not set up to grow them! I have been told by friends that sensi
star is good but I haven't smoked it. Of all the
indicas Iíve tried I liked Blueberry the best, its problem is that its
a very low yielder, apart from the odd something
special, to be kept a plant has to yield a minimum average of 40 grams
in the clone generation before it gets to be
mummed up permanently! I have kept one C99 although it only averaged 27
g in the clone generation. I have to say that
all the C99 fems I grew from seed were better than anything Iíve tried
from Holland. It has a bit of sativa in its stone and
may well make a reasonable cross for you. One of its best attributes is
how fast it is, it really is finished in 6.5 to 7
weeks.
As far as your strains ability to use co2 I made some points and questions
below. I have to say I couldn't believe my
eyes when I saw the numbers going down on the reader the first time we
put the lights on. At some time in the future I
may try co2 again but at say 700 ppm and see what the effect is our prob
is that sats grow fast enough as it is!
Age yes well iím a war baby too a little younger than you, no figures for the data gatherers though, paranoid yes sir!
All the best Ot1.
TOPIC -
DATE - 10:24:49 12/17/99
FROM - oldtimer1
Hi Peaceness you can see the old ticker is working a bit better again haha.
I have just put 16 esb in my own grow from
my fav mum. This is my first grow of this clone selection I should have
a good idea what clones of this var can do from
a selected mum late feb, is there any particular info you want. They went
into their finish pots [4 litre] at 6 inches on
20/4 for 7 days untill rooted through. Going to 11/13 they were 11 to 13
inches now 12 days later they are between 37
and 42 inches so growth if fairly rapid they are all looking pretty good,
once stretching slows and flowering is fully
initiated I will bring them back to 12/12. They are spaced 2.4 to the sq
ft, there are 8 clone vars in an 8 x 4 space 78
plants total under 2 k of mixed light. At present no liquid feed has been
given they are living on Ro water and the
compost! Its funny but some of the co-op members do way better than me,
the record was just over 80 oz per k, canít
do it myself must getting to old lol!
rx I probably mentioned that I thought the Dutch breeders were going down
the pan. Of what Iíve tried recently JH, nl5 x
Hz, WW, ak47 and KM I have not found one keeper. Iím not qualified to talk
about Indicas as they aren't my fav tipple
and Iím not set up to grow them! I have been told by friends that sensi
star is good but I haven't smoked it. Of all the
indicas Iíve tried I liked Blueberry the best, its problem is that its
a very low yielder, apart from the odd something
special, to be kept a plant has to yield a minimum average of 40 grams
in the clone generation before it gets to be
mummed up permanently! I have kept one C99 although it only averaged 27
g in the clone generation. I have to say that
all the C99 fems I grew from seed were better than anything Iíve tried
from Holland. It has a bit of sativa in its stone and
may well make a reasonable cross for you. One of its best attributes is
how fast it is, it really is finished in 6.5 to 7
weeks.
As far as your strains ability to use co2 I made some points and questions
below. I have to say I couldn't believe my
eyes when I saw the numbers going down on the reader the first time we
put the lights on. At some time in the future I
may try co2 again but at say 700 ppm and see what the effect is our prob
is that sats grow fast enough as it is!
Age yes well iím a war baby too a little younger than you, no figures for the data gatherers though, paranoid yes sir!
All the best Ot1.
TOPIC - I like to say one thing
DATE - 06:23:08 12/17/99
FROM - Ahhsome
This is the most informative message board I have ever seen.
My compliments to all you Bcanadians Smile Canada:)
TOPIC -
DATE - 06:07:54 12/17/99
FROM - oldtimer1
rx You sure are funny! You seem to take offence and become defensive when
no one is attacking you! This place is
about improving growing knowledge and spreading the word, we all like the
plant and the diversity of what it produces!
Iím assuming you weren't being rude with the am/bc English remarks! There
are Aussie and Kiwi English folks that
post here as well, come to that Iím English English, we try and read through
the differences in meanings, I hope you do
as well! I posted some of our experiences with co2 because I thought it
may have some value for you. It is gardening
after all and there are many ways of growing, none of them are the only
way. You are free to take and use or ignore any
thing that may help your particular methods its your choice! We do try
and help one another here! So! ==>
-----------------------
I harvest only bud. It is very crisp and full of resin.
===>
This says to me you have had only moderate amounts of co2 in your grow
room. I can only speculate, but I think you
said that you are growing at 6000 ft I suspect that the background levels
of co2 are much lower due to the altitude! So
any input of co2 would improve the grow! We donít even know if the input
you are making is getting you close to the
background level at sea level! I find this fascinating any one here know
what the normal level is at 6k+ ft?
------------------------------------------
If I can find an easy and efficient way to make good co2, I am going to
keep using it. No doubt your suggestions
otherwise are helpful. Thus far you have not openly opined that co2 supplement
is harmful? Do you really care if I use
co2? Is it illegal? By all means deprive your self of co2's benefits for
the sake of science. Thanks again! Kiss my ass.
=======>
Well tounge in cheek but not in yours!!! All the research has been done
for the commercial glasshouse growers! They
use propane/natural gas burners, they are very clean complete burning no
co! Yes they cost a bit initially but so does a
light, they are very very cheap to run! The reason they are not used much
by indoor growers is heat buildup in multiple
light rooms. I have seen these burners used in Europe, 40kw of lighting
in a warehouse, they were using air con with
about 90 to 95% air recirculation. They were working on 400 ppm, at this
level they said it made little difference to the
air con loading. Now this is not growing in a co2 rich environment just
simple climate control. This is what we do with
our fast air exchange. I donít deprive my plants of co2! Even with the
co2 you are putting in you may be! Your plants
could be getting half what mine are you haven't a clue, without measuring
the levels you are just guessing, you may be
growing at a big co2 disadvantage!
Popeye sorry you could be wrong, as one assumption it could be rxís ventilation
is inadequate! Then the co2 level
could get down to near zero levels within a short time of the lights coming
on and the plants may only get the
equivalent of an hour or soís growth in a day, who knows. This problem
gets worse the larger the plants get. Under
these circumstances any additional co2 would make big differences. I think
the claims for big increases in yields using
co2 come from people who have an inadequate environment for the plants
to photosynthesise properly in the first place!
What you said was correct assuming rxís growing conditions were perfect!
rx I hope this helps a bit. Ot1.
TOPIC - oldtimer1's comments
DATE - 03:35:36 12/17/99
FROM - rx
I am aware x25 might weaken the strain. The plants have dwarfed, but are
very vigouous and produce big, very compact
buds, full of resin and very potent (less than headache quality after cured
two weeks) I have tried cross breeding from
field varities (mexican sativa, which resembles the best columbian) without
success so far.I have lots of seeeds so I
compensate the dwarfing by planting many plants. (two females per 12" pot.Six
pots under 400w hps) So I'm looking
for new stock. A report on this board that dutch was in decline startled
me, because that is what I had in mind. Nor
was I aware that my strain seems unique in it's ability to respond to c02.
Thanks for your suggestions. I was born in
1938. Just how old are you?
TOPIC - OT1
DATE - 03:16:57 12/17/99
FROM - Peaceness
Good Day!!
OT1: Your growing experience is priceless!! Have experimented with Co2
myself, it is not that effective.
Can you do a write up on esb,( how to grow it, and how to get those HUGE
yields 55 oz per 1k??!) am thinking about
planting them indoor and out, as i also preffer the sativa high! Recently
obtained some seeds in some very skunky
sativa (PARANOIA) weed, am thinking about these also, maybe in an esb cross?
Thanks.
P.S. Ever thought about writing a book? :)
-Peaceness
TOPIC - popeye's terrible tea
DATE - 03:11:46 12/17/99
FROM - rx
Dear popeye: If the sugar solvent in my tea won't do it for you, substitute
1/4 cup of olive oil. Have you tried my recipe?
What I am hearing on this message board is just this kind of flatulence
- a lot of loud opnions which are yet to be tried.
Does my rx need refilled? - sorry, I was unaware. I wish my doc was so
easy to fool.Relax guys,I don't want your
turf.Don't be anxious I've come to help you out if I can. At least I can
teach you what you will get from me with
sweetness and light and what rudeness will return. Two cups a day will
help to dispel your anxieties. Rock on!
TOPIC - reply to funkdified
DATE - 01:50:00 12/17/99
FROM - rx
Rock on! Outdoors growing is no longer an option hereabouts. The air is
thick with heliocopters. Pollution of the buds
with dust and insect feces etc make for beter stuff inside. Out of doors
I never got the kind of budding these hps
promote - co2 supplementation is like pissing in the ocean when you are
out of doors so the co2 advantage is lost. I
use six 12" pots and host two plants per pot trying to get twelve plants
growing to fill up the headroom. Average ht is
24" - 30". I pinch tops at the third internode for dual tops and tie them
down. I feed peters african violet feed. during the
last 6 weeks all the shade leaves turn yellow& fall off and I harvest
only bud. It is very crisp and full of resin. Best in the
west.
TOPIC - co2 & tea reply to loop oldtimer trelaway
DATE - 01:22:54 12/17/99
FROM - rx
Thank you all for your posts. All the science in the world won't shake
me from what mine own eyes have witnessed.
Each of you has made some reading error in deciphering my posts. I am sure
you can read you are just a little fogged
up and in a hurry. I wonder if the translitteration between american and
bc english is 1:1. You know how funny they
talk! (haha) Anyhow,since high altitude pot is of better quality than that
produced by lowlanders - less is needed. If I
can find an easy and efficient way to make good co2, I am going to keep
using it. No doubt your suggestions otherwise
are helpful. Thus far you have not openly opined that co2 supplement is
harmful? Do you really care if I use co2? Is it
illegal? By all means deprive your self of co2's benefits for the sake
of science. Thanks again! Kiss my ass.
TOPIC - terrible tea
DATE - 19:39:24 12/16/99
FROM - trelaway
In support of popeye's comment on the solubility of thc: i had some really
harsh bud last year and a friend suggested
boiling the pot, redrying to see if that would help the harshness.
I tried it, low boiling the bud for twenty minutes. the stone was a little
differnt but the strength remained the same.
Whether it helped the harshness was debateable but the point is the potency
of the bud wasn't affected.
Now, if I'd added some cream or butter to the water...a different story
would have been told.
TOPIC - co2
DATE - 17:22:44 12/16/99
FROM - oldtimer1
rx after 25 generations of inbreeding Iím surprised you are getting the
yield you say. The population you must have to
select from is minimal and inbreeding suppressive traits are probably
coming to the fore. So you tend to get declining
yields it would do you good to introduce some new blood to the line preferably
an IBL like C99. This would crossed with
your own IBL give the effect of an F1 hybrid ie increased yield from the
heterosis effect. Or you could start again with
something like sensi star, as a var that is a full monty indica.
As far as co2 is concerned from my own observations it is better to get
all other things right first, once your growing
system is as good as you can get it, ie consistent results grow after grow,ok
then introduce co2 and experiment. I
donít think you can say what co2 does to your grow unless you have data
from several grows! I have never seen a puff
grower come up with any real data yet. The data in the old books was filched
from glasshouse research stations and
correlated to growing under lights indoors and from my experience probably
never tested before written about.
Now we have experimented with co2 and some of what we found may not be
relevant to your circumstances as we
grow Sats and Sat dom hybrids but some of it must hold true. The equipment
we used is a greenair co2
reader/controller reading accuracy + - 5 ppm, a smart microprocessor switching
devise and a relay bank to control the
fans/co2 dispenser etc. The input/extract fans completely change the room
air every 3 mins up to 70 f and every 1.5
mins above that. This keeps the the co2 level around 350 ppm steady ie
the same as the normal outside level. We did
4 grows over a couple of years where we used co2 during the light on period
we ran 45 mins with input/extract fans off
co2 at a constant 1500 ppm. 15 mins co2 off and the last 3 min with the
input/fans on maximum to completely purge
the room. Internal circulation fans are kept running continuously.
We found it produced much faster growth. Softer stems, larger leaves which
were darker green and had probs with leaf
spot for the first time ever. You want leaf mass well you get it and how.
If used during flowering there were so many
leaves on the colas it was hard to see a calyx. We used 10 vars from known
mums! None of them produced buds that
were typical to the var, they lacked their distinctive smell and tastes
that made them special. The bud structure was
looser and worst of all no matter how they were cured you couldn't get
rid of the green chlorophyll taste! Potency was
down yes they had a lot of resin but that up edge to the high was gone!
Oh yes the buds took over twice as long to
manicure! What did we get at the end of the day apart from inferior puff,
a measly 17% increase in weight!
What I want to see when I have a bud, is lots of close calyxes coated with
tricomes, not the edges of hundreds of cut
off leaves! Now this may not be the effect when growing pure indicas I
haven't tried them with co2. Anyhow the $4000 in
your money, that we spent on equipment, gas and tanks certainly produced
big results, just not the buds we thought
we would get! As far as producing co2 by fermentation 1.5 kiloís of sugar
in 5 litres of water will produce about 1.45 lbs
of co2 over about 5/6 weeks its like pissing in the ocean to raise the
water level. The good thing that came out of the
experiment was the co2 reader, before having that the word here was the
air in the grow room needed changing every
20 minís or so! Well at that rate the reader just tumbled down when the
lights went on and after about 1/2 an hour
stabilised to about 50 ppm steady then as the room warmed up very slowly
dropped further. It taught us about
ventilation, it costs a lot of $ but is just as valuable as a ph or cf
pen. You can have your ph and nutrients spot on but
the plants just wont metabolise properly in a co2 deficient environment!
This was several years ago for us, the
immediate result of changing the ventilation was over doubling our yields.
I suspect a lot of folks dabbling with co2 are
just compensating for inadequate ventilation rather than growing in co2
rich environment. Just a few thoughts to mull
over from an olden.
TOPIC -
DATE - 11:24:24 12/16/99
FROM - loop_hole
Rx-Popeye is, of course, 100% correct and his comments on co2 correlates
with my experience exactly. I tend to take
a more non-confrontational approach but that did need to be said. Thank
you Popeye.
Although I may not have been clear, if you re-read my post you will find
that
a) I do use co2 and find it worthwhile in my set up.
b) My ìsarcasmî about toy for the big boys was a comment about my earlier
post and how I had hoped people didnít
interrupt that as such.
This board has some of the most advanced and experienced growers on the
net and it would be well advised if you
talked less and listened more.
TOPIC - That's all I can stands, I can't stands
DATE - 08:05:56 12/16/99
FROM - Popeye
no more...
There have been some entirely inaccurate claims made here lately, so at
the risk of offending anyone, especially those
who need their prescriptions refilled:
1)Carbon dioxide supplementation, (even when accurately supplied and monitored,
not to mention the extremely
inconsistent output from a Mickey Mouse fermentation system) will NOT more
than double your yield, or increase
yields 30-50%, and does NOT improve potency, or decrease odors and fungal
problems. It may decrease the time to
harvest by a week or two, and may increase yield marginally, but that's
about it.
2)Terrible Tea: THC, being non-soluble in water, does not transfer to the
"tea"; almost all you get are proteins,
chlorophyll, and other non-stoning agents in solution; most of the THC
gets thrown out with the remains of the bud you
wasted.
Learn from your mistakes, and you may find that experience IS everything.
TOPIC - rx
DATE - 05:19:09 12/16/99
FROM - funkdified
Well, I'm on my 5th indoor crop right now. Unfortunately, because I rent,
I run into security issues that don't always
allow me to grow constantly. I spent a couple years before doing things
outdoors to bring me a total of 5 years.
Outdoors I have not really had very good luck. Mind you I always harvest
some of good quality, but I have seemed to
always pick locations that have development the following year. So, I find
myself trying to deal with new soil and
environment every year. Just looking forward to finishing college and getting
a house/land of my own. Indoors my yeilds
have slowly been going up. This crop looks to be my best as far a yeild
goes (5-6 oz.) I didn't efficiently fill my space
up, so it could have been better. In the past I had never had enough plants.
I have to keep them small, 2-3 ft at
maturity, because I'm doing the closet thing. I'm sure that you can see
how yeild would be low on 6 2-3 ft plants. In all
honesty though, yeild isn't of utmost concern. I'd rather have fewer tasty
potent nugs than a lot of so-so nugs. Thanks
for you response.
Happy Holidays to all
funkdified.
P.S. - I just ran into this link today. Wasn't attempting to spam, just
wanted to pass it along.
Link: marijuanaclones
TOPIC - supplement to rx's answer to fundified's query
DATE - 01:16:37 12/16/99
FROM - rx
One year of the out of doors experience was in paradise - the big island.
('79 - '80). Them were the days!
TOPIC - funkdified's query how long growing?
DATE - 00:51:14 12/16/99
FROM - rx
Total:Eleven years indoors with seeds from sssc. Most recently - under
lights, 5 yrs; Before that, 6 years under a sky
light. Some out of door guerilla growing before that.There have been times
I carried it from window to window as the sun
moved round. There is nothing like a sky light, but I had to move. The
longer I grow, the smaller my crops get, proving
experience isn't everything. Thanks for your inquiry. How long for you?
TOPIC -
DATE - 19:53:36 12/15/99
FROM - Vic High
Nat E Dred - gotcha dude, haha. I grew all the moms in the organic soil
mix, and don't really vary things, so I don't
really get much of a feel for what needs more of what. They all just get
more than they need, and what doesn't like the
soil just doesn't make the cut, haha. But I suspect life won't be so simple
in hydro, I have a aero buddy who bitches
about mixed crops because of their different nutrient requirements. Sorry
I can't be of more help. Would love to hear
your feedback on Marc's romulan, it would be very welcome here.
TOPIC - Tks
DATE - 19:30:19 12/15/99
FROM - Nat E Dred
You kinda misunderstood, the Romulan came from M.E. yes, the surprises
from RC, I didnt want you to confuse my
Romulan with the Romulan surprise so I pointed to M. E. as that source.
Naw dude, I know the surprise nature, have
had a few of those myself, but have never done Rom, ST or RSB, so I figured
there might be some tendencies from the
mothers info that could pertain. Twas worth a shot.
Later
Nat E Dred
TOPIC - suprises
DATE - 19:01:10 12/15/99
FROM - Vic High
Nat E. Dred - you should have fun with those mixes dude, suprised Marc
would still have some of those kicking around.
Anyway, your question tells me that you (unfortunately) didn't fully understand
the nature of the suprises. They are
going to be quite variable (all the way from indica dominants to sativa
dominants) so in a hydro setup, some will do
better than others. But this could be a good thing, with the variation,
some should be suitable for your setup ;)
Of the suprises, keep an eye on the RSB, they turned out to be the dark
horse of the lot. I've recieved more
compliments from them than any of the others. Which was a suprise, I expected
the romulan or the ST suprises to be
the best. Anyway, good luck and make sure you have some quality odour control
in place for those romulans ;)
TOPIC - Vic, a moment please
DATE - 12:30:45 12/15/99
FROM - Nat E. Dred
Hi Vic, I'm looking at running you RSB surprise, ST surprise, and some
Romulan I got from M.E. on the next run, and
since you have experience with them I'd like to ask how compatable the
nutrient requirements are between these 3
strains. I figure at least 2 should be close enough to each other, and
I have plenty plenty to play with. This run I really
just want to watch their growth habits for a full run of selected moms.
In Hydro, GH nutes.
Thanks Vic
Happy Holidays all!
Nat E. Dred
TOPIC - rx
DATE - 05:17:41 12/15/99
FROM - funkdified
Just curios rx, how long have you been growing? 8oz from 400W isn't too
bad. Not trying to be nosey, I was just
looking for someone to compare how I am doing so far.
Peace,
funkdified.
TOPIC - lawyer jokes?
DATE - 02:50:43 12/15/99
FROM - yepod
Just woke up. What time is it. Where am I. Heard any good lawyer jokes.(not
intending an oxymoron)
TOPIC - loop_hole's post (supplementing rx's reply)
DATE - 03:19:04 12/14/99
FROM - rx
One diffrence which may explain our divergance over co2 is my operation
is in the mountains - 6500 feet above sea
level. You may be sea level grower.
TOPIC - loop-hole's post (bean hoe)
DATE - 02:33:47 12/14/99
FROM - rx
I just made a harvest which is about 8 oz under 400 w hps. No co2 was used
in this grow. 105 days. I grow insoil. My
seeds orginaly were from sssc. They have been inbred for at least x25.
The plant is a hearty dwarf indica some what
skunky.The colas are well formed, 4 - 5 inches long, about as big as a
jumbo frank. If I smoke two joints per day, I go
nowhere and acomplish nothing but a terrific feeling of well bean. (haha)
It's well adapted to hps. I'm proud as hell that
I've been able to grow anything. This pitiful crop will last me 5 or six
months and i will stay within the almost legal limit.
Despite your sarcasm about big toys and etc, my plants are heathy, vigorous
and vitually pest free. Using co2 derivied
from fermenting has consistently boosted my crop 30 - 50 % in volume and
potency, keeps give away oders to a
minimum, keeps fungus and mold at bay and makes me content with my plight.
Maybe these growers you know who
don't like co2 are using the wrong kind of co2 or have too much ventilation.
Quin sabe? Did you ever hear of mel frank?
TOPIC - being a bean hoe
DATE - 14:08:43 12/13/99
FROM - loop
Ot1- thank you for the info on esb and the soil mix. Think Iíll give esb
a try. Not that I should because contrary to advise
I given others, I got far too many strains going right now as it is. Since
returning from Aídam, more ready to go. I think
Vic calls himself a seed slut and I must admit Iím a bit of a bean hoe
myself. So many strains, so little space. Would
love to try the es, i have a few astronaut friends.
I no longer have the Thai x Malawi cross although I do have the same Malawi
and a different Thai in seed form but Iíve
yet to duplicate the cross due to space limitations. One day.
Doc evil- I did receive your mail but I only ìfoundî it today after reading
your message here. Your e-mail did not have
your normal doc e name attached and I thought your message was just spamÖsorry.
Glad to hear everything worked out far better than it could have. Good
luck and if you need some help with genetics let
me know, lord knows I have enough.
All- after re-reading my last post I realized I might have come across
a bit snobbish. (i.e. the best Iíve ever smoked is
my own, Aídam weed is shit, if you canít get a gram a watt then you shouldnít
play with the big boy toys). No
disrespect was meant to anyone.
I was disappointed in the aídam stuff though. Almost none of the stuff
would burn being over fertilized, wet and poorly
cured. I did look nice but had no balls. I donít think it was the genetics
because I have several Dutch strains that I think
are very good. Maybe all the good stuff was being saved for the cup?
I do think co2 is a fun thing to play with but many commercial growers
have found it wasnít worth their effort.
Concentrating on lighting (intensity, spectrum, and movement) temps, humidity
and plant density pays off far more in
effort vs. results than co2 does (again IMHO). But we all know there is
far more to growing than just yield so we should
all just do whatever rocks our boats.
Grow well
Loop_hole
TOPIC - tillerman tea
DATE - 01:01:28 12/13/99
FROM - rx
Place the contents of a family size tea bag in a paper coffe filter in
your coffee pot. stir in one - sixteenth cup crushed
bud. Sprinkle with 1/4 teaspoon sugar. Percolate 24 oz heated water over
the mixture. I like a little lemon added. Hot or
cold it is the best drink in the universe. I think the effect of thc ingested
as tea is more profound than smoke. It seems
to get right into the muscles and cause deep relaxation. It clears the
lungs and aids in digestion. It stimulates appetite.
Disapointingly, the rush from smoking is lost. Two cups a day keeps me
mild as a child.
TOPIC -
DATE - 16:17:43 12/12/99
FROM - oldtimer1
loop_hole it wonít have the up you would have with a Thai x Malawi cross,
the indica in my cross smooths it some. Its
mum is just like the Thai cross its a bit like being on a roller coaster,
the waves just keep coming lol well there are
touches of that in the esb. Its worth keeping crosses like your T x M they
make good breeding partners to indicas for
those that donít like to much cerebral activity, plus by keeping a mum
you can do a few pure for the astronauts.
The organic compost formula is still under development but we use wormest
and premix from the Bio Bizz Co at
Groningen in Holland, its our base fertiliser and nutrient supply. The
main bulk ingredients are sedge and moss peats,
Kettering sterilised loam and perlite! For ph balance and trace elements
Dolomite lime and Calcified seaweed are used.
Some liquid feed is given, once again they come from Bio Bizz, using their
bloom grow and fish fertilisers! Water is Ro
and carbon filter treated. We tend to under feed rather than force feed
and make small adjustments to keep the plants
in good health. As an example I found that when growing C99 it needed a
lot more N than our plants at certain stages
of its growth. So a small pinch of dried blood sprinkled over the soil
in the C99 pots and lightly watered in kept its
balance and health up to the the other plants in the grow!
I will try and update the esb with a new pick soon [the same plant]. I
have just put 16 esb on 12/12 in my own grow of
78 plants, its a bigger sample of one clone from this cross! The yield
data etc should be ready in march! Hope this
helps. Ot1.
TOPIC -
DATE - 15:34:36 12/12/99
FROM - Dr. Evil
Hi all,
Loop_hole: I sent you mail about 2 weeks ago, received no reply so far.
If you just haven't had a chance to reply, what
with the holidays and all, I understand. If the mail is not getting through,
then maybe there is something wrong with one
of our accounts, and needs to be investigated further. I just didn't want
you to think I blew you off when you asked me
to drop you a line.
Budm: If you're lurking out there, I can be reached at the address above.
Just wanted to say hello, and tell you I made
it through my tribulations unscathed (relatively speaking).
happy holidays all,
Be Safe
Dr. Evil
TOPIC - organic tea recipies
DATE - 11:41:27 12/12/99
FROM - Pegasys
anyone have any orgamic tea recipies that the have personally used/made
??? and can u tell me what i
end up with ie : a 5-1-1,5-10-5,5-5-10 .... etc ??
TOPIC - Plant Problems
DATE - 23:50:57 12/11/99
FROM - nexus
Help 30% of leaves on the plant are yellow and brown at the tip, I had
mites a while ago but it seems to be preaty
much under control i used neem-oil. I have not been ferting because of
salt build up problems in the past. My medium
is uncle malcomes soil. The temp is light on-80,85 and off-70. Also on
the bigger leaves the stems are purple, I am
growing mr.nice, c99 (which is hit the hardest) and some GFW. I water every
other day. There under 1k hps with 1 gal
pots and c99's and mr.nice's are around 1 1/2 feet tall expect for gfw
which is about 6 inchs.
I just dont know what the problem is.
thanx for the help
TOPIC - wadsworth - co2 set up
DATE - 01:33:29 12/11/99
FROM - rx
I'm gonna try it. Thanks
TOPIC - columbian widow
DATE - 00:05:44 12/11/99
FROM - peaceness
hello, thanks for everybodys suggestions concerning my slow growing plants.i
will persist tell i can get a cut from each.
vic/all: i was wondering if you had any background info on the columbian
widow fom a-1's auction, just received them
today.
-peaceness
TOPIC - peaceness
DATE - 17:15:44 12/10/99
FROM - irish
i agree with the posts about the high ph causing plant to be so slow. my
friend had that problem, he flushed a couple
of times with pH adjusted clear water, let it dry out in between, plant
bounced back no problem. (plant otherwise looks
healthy, but just kinda "stuck" right?)
TOPIC - vin.bake soda co2
DATE - 14:21:45 12/10/99
FROM - Wadsworth
For making your own co2 w/vinegar & baking soda mix in a large container
baking soda & water to about 1/2 full. This
mix should be mostly baking soda, basiclly a slurry. Place this container
down lower. Have the vinegar container above
this. In the vinegar you can place any kind of wick or string. I have something
called Grow-Wick, just string in a vinyl
tube. When this starts to drip have it drip into the container of b/s slurry.
Co2 is released when the two come together.
By adjusting the rate of dripping you adjust the rate of co2 production.
You can get creative and use aquarium tubing
and valves. By having the b/s cont. sealed and ventilated you can direct
where the co2 goes to. Every now and then
drain off the liquid from the b/s, maybe add a little more. Experiment
abit because this can foam up and really make a
mess. ;(
Using candles didn't work well for me either. I don't like flames.
TOPIC - Peter's potting soil availabilty
DATE - 02:53:53 12/10/99
FROM - yepod
I can't find peters potting soil anywhere around here. I have tried schultz
and scotts and walmart and none of them
compares to peters. can you help me locate this brand?
TOPIC - wadsworth
DATE - 02:47:47 12/10/99
FROM - rx
It sounds like you are running about the same system Iv'e got. Candle burning
did not dothe co2 trick for me. Can you
describe the dripping system for baking soda and vinegar? How to get the
vinegar to drip? ( No condom jokes! haha)
Thanks for the info on the lights
TOPIC - loop_hole
DATE - 02:36:08 12/10/99
FROM - arrooo
observations on your post. Sorry to hear about the poor quality of amsterdam
pot. It's all Iv'e got to smoke. One gram of
product per watt is a very good return uder lights and especially without
co2 supplement. That would be 12 or 13 oz for
400 watt. I have matched that using co2, but never exceeded it under lights.
I used to have a 2x4 sky light that would
produce three or four pounds. That was living! Keep us posted on africian.
TOPIC - CO2
DATE - 02:32:35 12/10/99
FROM - Wadsworth
rx - try a candle to make co2 or have vinegar drip onto a baking soda solution.
TOPIC - Lights & A'dam
DATE - 02:27:32 12/10/99
FROM - Wadsworth
Arrooo - I've heard that you should get at least 6 mos.@ 24/0 before the
quality of the light degrades. Twelve mos. is
more likely. I've used the same MH bulb for 3 veg. seasons - bought in
96 - w/o any problem. The hps has 2 seasons
on it. These are a 400 & 430 watt. The spectrum quality degrades over
time but they're usable as long as they work.
Loop-hole - I was in A'dam in '97 and thought the weed was great. The freshness
and potentcie of it was top notch. If
you've always grown your own kind maybe you've had fresher but I can't
wait to go again. It was the cheapest, most
legal kind weed I ever had.
TOPIC - peaceness quandry
DATE - 02:27:28 12/10/99
FROM - arrooo
sounds like sour soil: i.e. your soil is too acidic, i.e. the ph is 7 or
above. a ph meter will help you figure it out. they
cost about $10-15 at any garden shop. This condition may be caused by poor
drainage. do you have gravel in the
bottom of your pot? I have never been able to salvage a plant in this condition
and I reccomend you start over. Don't be
discouraged. Every grower loses some plants but if you masterthe skill
of growing the stuff you will be amply rewarded.
TOPIC - usable life 400w hps?
DATE - 19:04:00 12/09/99
FROM - arrooo
I have been changing my 400w hps after 4 mos of 12:12.( fourty bucks a
copy) Is this too often - too slow? How long
does the ballast last? Has anyone had excperience with 15w curly que floresents?
My initial experience has been good
for plants during the first three weeks of sprouting with sprouting spectrum
(very cool) model - one light per plant.
Anyone - please help me out.
TOPIC - Fertilizer Clearing in a Multivariatal HydroSystem
DATE - 17:43:53 12/09/99
FROM - Sierra Daze
In a hypothetical Hydroponic system, with
varieties with greatly varying fruition
completion times, a unique clearing
technique is proposed for removing the
chemical taste of fertilizer buildup in
the 'fruit'.
Specifically, if a system had 2 or more
varieties with greatly differing finishing
times, using a conventional clearing solution
approach for the first variety would deprive
the later variety of much needed nutrients
to develop ripe, outstanding 'fruit' with
full-bodied flavor.
The first step to solving this dilemma might
be to use a clearing solution each time the
tank is changed to as prevention of buildup.
Has anyone ever tried this? Did it reduce the
need for clearing time just prior to harvest?
This could be determined by tasting fruit early
to detect chemical tastes.
An additional solution is proposed:
When a variety (or individual plant) is finished,
transport the plant into another room.
This "finishing room" is on a 24 dark period to
prevent 'over ripening' the fruits.
For a period of around 7 days in the finishing
room, the variety or individuals are cleared
with the clearing solution.
It is assumed there is sufficient glucose sugars
stored in the plant to accomplish some "curing",
or conversion of fertilizers stored in the plant
to sugars in the fruits.
Literally, a slight 'cure' on the vine.
Has anyone tried this technique?
Thanks for all comments.
TOPIC - esb, africa, co2, a-dam and h202
DATE - 16:57:58 12/09/99
FROM - loop_hole
Ot1-Thanks for the info on ESB. Found your post at CW and they answered
most of my questions. I had a Thai/Malawi
cross a few years back from seeds I obtained in their respective countries.
Friends named it 911 after many of my
dinner guest got a little overwhelmed. Got rid of it because it was just
too strong and you almost couldnít smoke a
small enough amount. After you rode out the zippy start ( heart racing
and your body temp dropped 10 degrees) it was
one of my favorites that I still havenít even come close to matching its
HIGH with the dozens of strains I tried since.
Hoping your cross will have a hint of familiarity. Gotta love that African
stuff. I have a friend in Cameroon and I hope she
can send me some Nigerian beans.
Re: the co-ops soil mix. Could you elaborate a bit? Do you feed just water, organics, salts?
All ñRegarding co2. I have done several crops with and without co2. I found
as long as my temps were 80 + and light
levels were over 3500 lumens at the plant tops (measured) it makes a worthwhile
improvement. If not, your wasting your
time (IMHO). Also, putting some small fans on the floor blowing up seems
to help. I figure that if youíre not getting a
gram per watt (maybe a little less for a single 400) youíve got bigger
fish to fry than playing with co2. Thatís just one
mans opinion ;-)
Returned from Amsterdam about two months ago and was totally unimpressed
with the quality of weed there. Anyone
else found this?
Peaceness. My guess is that your soil was too wet for too long (what was
your RH?) and youíve developed a root
rot/fungus problem. Flush your plants with pH adjusted water mixed to 0.2%
h2o2, and 30+ drops of powerthrive/gallon
and transplant into a much looser mix (add 30% perlite) and they should
bounce back.
Good luck
TOPIC -
DATE - 12:47:51 12/09/99
FROM - KQ
Hi there Peacenss, is your soil cold?? cold roots can really hamper growth.
I imagine your nutes and soil aireation are
just fine.
TOPIC - Stagnant grrowth in soil
DATE - 10:00:42 12/09/99
FROM - Peaceness
I have 2 plants that are currently in one gallon pots. the plants are about
6 inches with multiple tops. the problem i have
is that the plants are growing extremely slow, in fact there are periods
when they do not grow, but are still alive. lighting
is not a problem as they are under a 400 watt. they also do not drink much
as they need to be watered once every 2
months or so. also, prior to transferring them in the 1 gallon pots, i
had them in 16 oz cups and the growth was bad
then also. i figured transplanting to one gallon containers with new soil
wold work, but no luck. Vic, perhaps you can
help me out in getting the plants to grow as i need to mak cuttings from
them soon.
-Peaceness
TOPIC -
DATE - 04:20:07 12/09/99
FROM - Ahhsome
rx I think 2 much of anythying can be a bad thing. However,
when one deals with cannabis or money 2 much is hard 2 define. Regarding
women one is plenty, 2 is 2 2 much
trouble.
TOPIC - candle inflated condom (rube Goldberg)
DATE - 02:47:21 12/09/99
FROM - rx
Dear rube - What's a condom?
TOPIC - kersosene lamp burning alcohol ( msgoldberg)
DATE - 02:43:55 12/09/99
FROM - rx
Dear Ms Goldberg - Have you actually tried this? I tried burning alcohol
(everclear in a bunson burner - not a kerosene
lamp) and the results I observed were negative. But iv'e been wondering
what to do with all this alcohol i'm making. i f
the alcohol were distilled fromthe ferment I've described it would yeild
2 quarts - theoreticly. I had to give up drinking it
many years ago and now I pour the poisenous stuff down the toilet. Thank
you for your suggestion and I may just
revisit the idea.
TOPIC - kersosene lamp burning alcohol (goldberg)
DATE - 02:41:08 12/09/99
FROM - rx
Dear Ms Goldberg - Have you actually tried this? I tried burning alcohol
(everclear in a bunson burner - not a kerosene
lamp) and the results I observed were negative. But iv'e been wondering
what to do with all this alcohol i'm making. i f
the alcohol were distilled fromthe ferment I've described it would yeild
2 quarts - theoreticly. I had to give up drinking it
many years ago and now I pour the poisenous stuff down the toilet. Thank
you for your suggestion and I may just
revisit the idea.
TOPIC - 2 much co2 (aasom)
DATE - 02:30:07 12/09/99
FROM - rx
Is too much thc like too much money - too many women? haha
TOPIC - bucket with simple syrup and yeast
DATE - 02:26:38 12/09/99
FROM - rx
Hello aahsom - the foregoing was an answer for you. Thanks again.
TOPIC - bucket with simple syrup and yeast
DATE - 02:13:13 12/09/99
FROM - rx
Thanks for your comment. I tried what you suggest and i met the ubiquitous
vinegar fly - summer or winter. It is
profound universal question, where does the vinegar fly come from? If you
figure this one out, please let me know.
TOPIC -
DATE - 02:08:36 12/09/99
FROM - rx
to occam: what details would you like to know honorable aged grower?(I
have field notes on 40 harvests or there
abouts) I would like to say my profound experience synergizes the co2,
but forsooth, my best harvests were
someyears back. haha. An airlock tops the activated simple syrup. A 1/4"
plastic hose runs a short distance - not over
2' to the lee side of a 6" fan - presumably blowing the c02 over the tops
of the plants (venturi effect). After about 4
week, I add a second set up. Set up #1 is on its way to kaput mortem at
that time. Its a pain in the ass - literally.
Doubles the yield, at least, maybe more. Is there anything else you would
like to know...? Thank you for the inquiry.
TOPIC -
DATE - 12:54:56 12/08/99
FROM - ahhsome
woops! sorry guys 2 much THC
TOPIC - C02
DATE - 12:53:11 12/08/99
FROM - Ahhsome
You could place yeast with sugar water in a 5 gal bucket
and if you don't mind the smell a good cheap source
TOPIC -
DATE - 10:12:38 12/08/99
FROM - Mrs Goldberg
Rube, how many times have I told you to KISS? (keep it simple stoner)
I read in Indoor Marijuana Horticulture by: Cervantes
that "Small, one lamp grow rooms can burn ethyl or methyl
alcohol in a kerosene lamp." In a 10 X 10' grow room, 3oz
of fuel will produce about 2,000 ppm of Co2 in 24 hours."
--
One of those old style kerosene lamps (scrollable wick
style, with glass chimney), using the non-toxic, odorless lamp fuel it
comes with will generate plenty of usable CO2.
Okay boys and girls, time for milk and cookies and then a nap!
TOPIC -
DATE - 09:15:34 12/08/99
FROM - Rube Goldberg
rx even though some may disagree, I think you are experimental enough to
find a way to blow up a condom as big as it
will go and arrange for a lit candle inside. Then you will seal it up until
the flame goes out. You would have up to 23
percent co2 intthere with a small amount of carbon monoxide which isn't
enough to make anyone sick. Then you can
prick a tiny pinhole in a piece of scotch tape on the condom for very slow
release of your gas. You could even use one
of them tiney air compressors to store this gas in an old inner tube from
a tire place. Good luck and let us know.
TOPIC - carbon dioxide...
DATE - 07:38:10 12/08/99
FROM - occam
rx... Carbon dioxide more than doubles your yield? Outstanding. Goes against
observations made by some rather
experienced growers; I'd be interested in some details.
occam
TOPIC - co2 from peat and lime
DATE - 00:01:54 12/08/99
FROM - rx
dear ko - I jusst dreamed it up using a little high school chemistry. I
am searching for a better way than fermenting to
make the co2. Spill a granule of sugar and I've got ants.Also its heavy
for me to haul around. Too heavy always makes
me think. Some times a ferment burns up in two or three weeks.(usual is
4 - 6 weeks) I use ten pounds of sugar in 5
gals of water activated with Pastuer yeast. Some times it more than doubles
my yield. Great stuff. Iv'e also though
about a spark igniter from a gas stove. Over heating is a problem so I'm
putting off propane lantern and electric heater
untill these other ideas dont pan out. Any suggestions are appreciated.
TOPIC - general
DATE - 21:59:26 12/07/99
FROM - hand
ants farm afhids for sticky substance?only thing i know about leaves is
if you take them off too soon, the shoot they
feed doesnt grow well.water leaves seem to be for a fast start,once plant
gets large removing doesnt seem to affect
much.anyone want to speculate on how renewed solar flare activity will
affect outdoor plants.i never thought to try and
correlate solar flare activity to potency or growth habits till now,seeins
how we are entering a period of increased
activity after a long period of inactivity.maybe plants are affected?more
chance of sports?mayhap somthing unusual or
wonderfull will appear?should i stay inside during the worst ones?or would
that even help?may get to see northern
lights again so cool.did most potent breeds appear during high solar activity?hmm
i
TOPIC - question--non MJ
DATE - 19:49:06 12/07/99
FROM - trelaway
A friend has been losing houseplants to something that drips sticky stuff.
He claims to see no bug but this problem
has affected three different plants grouped together.
Any ideas?
TOPIC - Vic High: Durban Thai HH
DATE - 18:23:43 12/07/99
FROM - sensi
Hello Vic! The auction DurbanThai HH seeds were germed and doing very well.
Most seem to be of same phenotype
but a few have these twisted leaves with the edge curling up. My experience
tells me they'll grow out of it, no big deal.
However,are you aware of more than one phenotype for this particular strain??
TOPIC -
DATE - 08:23:35 12/07/99
FROM - KQ
Hey RX, where did you hear about limestone and peat moss for C02?? It kinda
makes sense cuz the moss is acid, but
is it acid enough? Never heard of it but it does sound interesting. Maybe
try making your generator in a 5 gallon water
bottle using moist moss and lime powder or dolomite.
TOPIC - Limestone gravel and peat moss for co2?
DATE - 03:04:47 12/07/99
FROM - rx
Has any one tried generating co2 using limestone and peat moss? If so,
how did you set it up? How did it work- etc.
TOPIC - revegging
DATE - 17:20:54 12/06/99
FROM - sb
C.G.
My $.02 is that revegging is of limited usefulness.Most strains that I
have revegged take SOOOOOO long to turn
around and put on sufficent growth for round number two that I only resort
to revegging when I NEED TO.(ie: didn't keep
a clone or lost a backup etc.)
3 weeks to turn around and another 2-3 weeks vegging, major pruning and
a rootbound plant that needs to be
transplanted or be shown special attention seem to be the rule rather than
the exception.This is my experience.
One more thing...round number two has always been a smaller yield as well
peas
TOPIC - Re-use or Re-veg ? Either?
DATE - 07:28:27 12/06/99
FROM - C.G.
Its been said that the Super Soil mix is capable of supporting more than
one grow. Is there any reason why a carefully
harvested plant of medium size can't be re-vegged at least once? Is it
a viable option for a SOG, or for plants in
containers smaller than 5 gal.?
What special tricks, if any, are helpful in making the change back to veg.
growth, and how long a veg. period before the
resumption of 12/12?
Would it work best with "leafy" strains rather than those with extremely
high calex to leaf ratios, or with SCROG style
grows? It would seem that the more leaf available to absorb energy, the
quicker the plant can bounce back, and the
larger the root system, the quicker the plant can pump out a new set of
buds.
If re-vegging can shave a week or more off the down time between harvests, why not do it?
Just curious.
TOPIC - lothat check you hotmail
DATE - 21:50:59 12/05/99
FROM - jay
nfm
TOPIC - cuttings
DATE - 19:59:39 12/05/99
FROM - cowboy
Well,i know for a fact that cuttings in oasis cubes in a baggie and a few
extra paper towels for the resovoir do fine in
the mail in a box.Figures there would be a catch,oh well.Thanks anyway.
later
TOPIC -
DATE - 18:42:01 12/05/99
FROM - Lothar
First off don't get me wrong GF and X are totally just for the asking.....I
would hand it off to anyone for sure only catch
is its just that I would hand it off to you... I just don't wanna deal
with mailing its not seeds their clones, rooted in oasis
3 or 4 inches high ... if you know someone around my parts or close Ill
hook them up for you and they can figure how
to send them off...
Oh ya one more thing need a feww weeks to prepare them
Vic
I know what you mean about it wanting to flower all the Time , I keep the
moms under 24 hrs light and that kindove
stops her from going over, occasionally she does start (makes fast rooting
clones then) and after a week or so falls
back out of it again.
I know only one other person to grow her large (about 5 ft) he has good
results he said that she grows in bursts, he
said she likes to be the winner in the room LOVES the light but didn't
much like the Idea of being shaded or in
compitition but yet anouther but he does grow it in hydro as well (organic
teas and good ole fashioned chemicals)
Steve olso said he grew it large and said that it liked it ???The most
constent way Ive seen is in 3 gallon pots grown up
to 2 feet or so then flipped
Oh yes Vic ya A chem hydro system is way better than organic soil bye far
, and thats not Chemicals you taste thats
the flavour of the New Mellenium- Yummy General Hydroponics :)
OOPS gotta go cut short new plants yes Vic
TOPIC - :)
DATE - 13:30:44 12/05/99
FROM - Moonshine
Well,if those beans are being thrown about then you can count me in ;)
Also...can anybody straighten out the Sag blueberry thing...Some say it's
the same Dj Short version of old and some
say it's been crossed with Bubbleberry....i have 1 thick chunky girl and
1 that seems to be sick all the time...both
started to stink about 2 weeks into veg too...anyways any help is much
appreciated :)
TOPIC -
DATE - 09:08:13 12/05/99
FROM - Ahhhsome
AHH Well I just got back from Jamaica two weeks ago.
Quite Exciting I must say lots of Ganja mostly seven foot sativas.
I would say the best part about the entire trip was the price of the herb
$75 US for a Quater Pound Mostly of lower
Quality sorry to say. Lothar while your given out free sample of your GF
wanna send some of that to our friends in the
islands there in great need of some good herb down there. I brought down
some Hawaiian Indica with me for my cousin
he was most thankful. Going back in Jan to visit my cousin plot he has
3 arces outside Port antonio.E-mail with details
P.s. Can anyone point me in the directions of a good indica
suited well to the tropics. Thanks
TOPIC - GF
DATE - 08:14:12 12/05/99
FROM - Vic High
Hey Lothar, I have a complaint about my GF, she's a real bitch in the veg
room. I have a hell of a time keeping her mind
on vegging, she just has her heart set on flowering. And trying to veg
her in anything other than a 2 gal container is a
waste of time, she just slows right down after 14" and lets all the other
blow right on by, so no GF bushes for me,
hehe. I've been thinking that maybe she is better suited to hydro, for
veg at least, what's your take on this? I think it's
the limited root space in the flower pots that triggers her flowering responce?
Otherwise, I may have done something
wrong and f-cked up this little gem.
Her heavy preflowering also messes up her performance in the flower room,
her stems seemed weakened by the
growth pattern . Nowhere as nice as what I saw coming from you and Jay
;) Oh yeah, that's another thing, In the couple
years I had her, she never gave me the kinda nugs you burned (hehe) so
I was saying "what-the-f-ck!" why is his
chemical hydro better than my organic soil? haha. But recently, I finally
saw her do her magic in a flower room with
double the light intensity. Ahhh the memories she brought back. Buddy,
I've never seen anyone grow that GF as nicely
as you do (even if it has that chem taste) you are Da Man there, haha.
Oh yeah, like I said before, I gotta a couple new treasure than may be
more up your alley than what I shared in the
past, shorter flowering times and such ;)
Oh yeah, you ever run into my buddy Squatch? Figured you two would have
something in common. He just finished a
busy session for a childrens series on family network.
TOPIC - grapefruit and brand x
DATE - 07:37:34 12/05/99
FROM - cowboy
Lothar,dude,are you serious about sharing GF and brand x.Im not sure how
to go about asking ,but i guess ill just
come out and ask,HOW can i get ahold of some of these genetics.if i ned
to beg im begging,im even on my
knee's,lol.You can let me know here if you are seious or not.i sure hope
you are serious.safe email is above.
later
Im waiting anxiously to find out if your just tesing or not.
TOPIC -
DATE - 03:12:11 12/05/99
FROM - Lothar
Jay
Trading is a good Idea, I have a production bud you may like, big buds,
great count and it aint crap
Where have I been well You know I don't like swearing but Ive been at work...If
you remember what I do then you know
what a good year its been
KQ
I got my GF about 3 years ago now so Its not the one with the defects,
the only drawback that Ive found with my gf is a
little after the 2nd week of flower it likes to grow a plenty in a week
it shoots up 10 - 14 inches then slows to a normal
rate, but pretty freaken scary when it takes off.I wouldn't call it a draw
back I just have little head room in my room so
tweeking the rite height to flower it took a bit.
As for improvements in the GF....hmm mabey less streatching but thats a
minor point the buds are big dank and stinky
a good count per plant.... the smoke is uniquely flavoured sweet pungent
aeromatic (a double bagger)The high is for the
experienced smoker...when you puff it it doesn't have the indication of
the high you get bye the taste...ask Vic about
that one he he...lets say it catches you off guard
Just a little side note for the past 2 1/2 years I was looking for a better
weed to grow tried over 100 kinds, mabey its not
fair to say bye just growing 1 or 2 plants of each but I havent found a
better plant than my GF. My search has slowed
down (still keeping my eyes open)Getting some "Real MaCoy" soon be trying
that one.
A note to all My Gf and Brand X are open to anyone who wants it the more
thats out there the better I say... A few
restrictions on breeding (gentlemans agreement of coarse).
TOPIC -
DATE - 21:07:31 12/04/99
FROM - jay
hey gang hows everyone doing..?
Lothar where ya been man..?might be time to hook up and do a little trading
huh...?got some sweet treats you might
like to try out...drop me a line.
TOPIC - Avid
DATE - 17:08:26 12/04/99
FROM - Vic High
Hi, I've been having an email exchange with a concerned citizen who seems
to know something about avid, here's a
repost of that email exchange so far.
From: "Concerned Citizen"
Subject: Re: AVID
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 16:10:08 PST
To: bcga@MauiMail.com
>Hey, thanks for the concern, sorry for not responding
>sooner. I followed that link you gave me, thanks for the
>thought. However, I had already cut and paste it's contents
>to my webpage previously.
>
> >
> > Avid is not systemic, and is not readily absorbed by
> > plants, from soil....
>
>I guess I must be a little rusty on the terminology. I too
>am under the belief that avid won't work if applied to the
>soil. However, I'm under the impression that it is absorbed
>by the above ground plant tissues and remains effective in
>the plant tissues killing mites for 6-8 weeks. Is systemic
>the wrong word for this? If so, what would be a better term
>to use? I was going to suggest residual, but my
>understanding is that only those insects consuming the plant
>are affected. Those that only crawl on the plant are safe so
>long as they don't munch. Therefore, only the chimical
>absorbed into the plant tissue remains active for very long.
I am not under the impression that avid is absorbed into the plant tissues
at all. I have done some tests on plants treated with avid, and have not
found that mites are killed even 3 days later, but can spread, and infest
plants 3 days later, in some cases.(Heavy light, good mite breeding
conditions like heat etc.) I think the 6-8 week thing is just a factor
of
the life-cycle of the two-spotted mite, which can take weeks to get a firm
'hold' on a garden, after initial infestation. Avid seems to be a good
way
for people that cannot control mites after infestation to get a good head
start on a crop, especially if the crop is only around for 8-10 weeks,
after
the mites are killed. I have most definitally seen crops 5-6 weeks after
application that were seriously mited out. It seems unlikely that a plant
that was dipped with only 4-6 leaves or so sould possibly contain any
measurable amount of abamectins when it is 2-3 feet tall with over 1000
times the mass of the original plant, given the fast half-life of the
product. Don't know, but I do have some info coming from Merck.
They were granted crop protection coverage in 1994 for some things...
------------------------
Crop Protection
Worldwide sales of abamectin-based products to protect various fruit,
vegetable and ornamental crops from damage by mite and insect pests continue
to grow. In the United States, full registration was granted for
strawberries, tomatoes and lettuce. Claims for citrus were expanded to
include
leafminers.
-------------------------
The avermectins, which have been refined by Merck, which are the group
which
avid comes from, are used to treat many things, and are anti-parasitic,
and
pesticidal, and even used on HUMANS!, (I think there are 8 avermectins)
Here is another excerpt from Merck's site.
--------------------------
Few examples better illustrate our approach to research and development
than
the process that began with a soil culture
provided by the Kitasato Institute in Japan.
From that single sample - and the combined efforts of hundreds of
Merck scientists - flowed what one Merck researcher
called an "incredible discovery - a microorganism that produced a
fabulous family of substances with unprecedented potency
and activity against both internal and external parasites of
animals, as well as pests that destroy crops."
Analysis of the culture found eight distinct, but chemically
related, active compounds that Merck chemists dubbed the
avermectins.
One pair of these avermectins, which was chemically modified,
demonstrated extraordinary activity against a broad spectrum
of animal parasites. Named dihydroavermectin B, it has emerged as
a true breakthrough in animal health - with
formulations available today for use in cattle, sheep, horses,
swine, and dogs.
Perhaps the most satisfying use for dihydroavermectin B, however,
has been in human health, where it is used to prevent
onchocerciasis, or river blindness - a leading cause of blindness
in developing Third World countries.
Untreated, it can cause permanent eye damage, even blindness.
However, a single dose of dihydroavermectin B every 12
months is sufficient to block development of the parasite to the
mature form, which releases the disease-causing microfilariae.
********************************************
My last reply
This is getting interesting, thanks for the info at the
bottom ;) My experience has been very different than yours.
When I first started using Avid, I was gardening perpetual
harvest style, where I would harvest a portion of the garden
every 2 weeks. And I was loosing the mite war. I sprayed my
veg room and all plants newly being placed into the flower
room. But I didn't spray any plants already in the flower
room out of health concerns for the consumers. The untreated
crop was growing right next to the treated crop, but the
treated crop remained mite free for about 6 weeks before
mites started migrating. The second application completely
erradicated the mite population in the veg room, but it took
about 3-4 months before I was able to completely clean them
out of the flower room, since I wouldn't spray a flowering
plant. Everytime I introduced new plants to the flowering
room, I would spray them.
However, one important note is that I have no certainty that
what I was using was in fact Avid. I purchased it black
market and it came in a small unmarked bottle. So maybe it
is something else and all us in this industry are just being
misinformed that it is indeed Avid. Who knows, I should see
if I can get my hands on some legit avid and compare ;)
Oh hey, in your references of crop plants, have you seen any
mention of the tobacco industry? I figure they would have
the real info that would be most relevent to our needs,
hehe.
Anyway, thanks again, Vic
TOPIC -
DATE - 09:11:41 12/04/99
FROM - KQ
Howdy Lothar,
Say, your GF isn't the one with the supposed faults is it? Can you name
any drawbacks that you've seen with your GF
or any improvements you'd like to see in it??
TOPIC - 10k piss test
DATE - 20:04:55 12/03/99
FROM - Strider
powdered urine.. 1-800-333-2152 or www.nodrugwar.com it works and will
pass a GCMS test.
TOPIC -
DATE - 12:37:29 12/03/99
FROM - Lothar
Curious George
Roots dangle straight out of the bottom of the pot (not comeing out of
the sides added bonus so as not to damage
roots when placeing them on the flower table)Table is gavety fed to res
approx 6 in. fom bottom of mesh to table.
The Mesh 1s about 1/2 hole so the roots don't "grab it" extraction is easy
and no damage to roots.
Q: So, after 2 or 3 weeks in the blaster before being transplanted, how
long do they take to finish in the flower room ?
A: My strains are approx 7 weeks it does nothing to the length of FLOWER
time
Q: and how does the Total time to finish, and the yield compare with your
previous results with the same strains?
A: Total time has increased and decreased you may say- Before I would Veg
them in the flower room for 5-9 days
before turning to flower-NOW I veg them 2-3 weeks out of the flower room
and then place them in the flower room. So in
essence I have a 7 week turn over instead of an eight week turn over.And
they get more Veg time.
Vic and All
Sweetooth is a sweet pink grapefruit X
Grapefruit was crossed with ?? to make Sweet Pink Grapefruit
A grapefruit is going around but it has some genetic faults I forget what
he said was wrong with it
TOPIC -
DATE - 11:44:13 12/03/99
FROM - Da Man
Just to make your life easier, here is the conclusion you will reach:
If you are concerned you might test positive after considering your situation,
drink 6-8 glasses of water 2 hours before
the test. The night before, take some creatine supplement to cover your
dilution. Four hours before the test, take a
b-complex vitamin to add yellow color to cover the dilution. And, lastly,
take 4 aspirin 2 hours before the test, it will
cause a false negative on the EMIT.
You may confirm this with the FAQ. Hope you get an EMIT, you probably will.
Do not give them the first urination of the morning. If you can, stream
a bit in the toilet and give them the midstream of
your wee pee.
You can learn more from the FAQ, also about Klear and Urinaid. Only prob with those is, some labs test for additives.
You are a naughty boy, you felon. :)
TOPIC -
DATE - 11:26:54 12/03/99
FROM - Da Man
Damn 10k, I did not know you knew about this place.
Go here, and study:
http://www.csun.edu/~hbcsc096/dt/
TOPIC - drug tests
DATE - 07:09:35 12/03/99
FROM - cowboy
10kDUDE,YOU ALREADY WENT A WEEK,YOU HAVE 30 MORE DAYS?dont take any illegal
drugs,no toking no
nothing and you will clear out for the piss test dude.It is said thc leaves
the system in 38 days.im a very chronic
smoker and i passed the test were im now working i stopped for about 6
weeks wich was overkill.also i have a step
daughter who was toking it up all weekend and then dropping clean UAs for
the probation office on monday by taking
lots of niacin and soaking in a hot bath.also on occasion she used a product
called the stuff a bottle of liquid you
consume.In my opinion she wasnt to smart to keep partying while on probation.
a year or two without partying is much
easier than any time with no freedom dude.Hope you get by it dude.
later
TOPIC - Drug testing... What can I do?
DATE - 22:24:07 12/02/99
FROM - 10k
I have to take a drug test in less then thirty days...what to do?
Haven't smoked in a week, haven't snorted any ritalin lately either but...Help!
Should I try to clear out my system somehow?
Or does anyone know of substances which would cause false positives, which
may be listed on a questionare to be
answered before the test, which I could comsume to throw off the test.
Are there any drugs I could get a "candy man" doctor to prescribe which
would screw up the test as for the thc in my
system?
I just don't know what to F'k to do.
I'm not even sure what kind of drug test they will make me take?
I think it will be a piss test but, I'm not sure?
Its a condition of court imposed probation, I have to pay these motherf'ers
a fee to administer my probation and I must
take a drug test. (which I also have to pay for)
What are my rights?
Can I refuse? I doubt it or the probation officer will violate me, or do
I have a right to refuse this test.
(say if they want blood or hair)?
Anyy doctors or lawyers out there?
Thanks, 10k
TOPIC -
DATE - 19:51:49 12/02/99
FROM - Vic High
gfruit - I think your best place to start your search is with some of Breeder
Steve's grapefruit backcross, Sweet Tooth.
Sweet tooth is somewhat inconsistent in the flower room, but you will get
many fine buds to choose from. Then make
an F2 cross of the sweet tooths most like grapefruit. Sifting throught
the F2s should yield you a good duplicate of
grapefruit. Another alternative is that Marc Emery has a grapefruit duplicate
called Mikado that is made by Federation
seeds.
dirt farmer, thanks for the recipe
Green Machine - thanks for the suprise feedback, I appreciate it, wish
more came in. I guess some were dogs and
growers wanted to spare my feelings. If that was the case guys, don't worry
about it, send them in!! LOL. There is a
good chance the SR was a romberry F2, they have a good chance of doubling
up on romulan's stink gene.
Lothar, your alive? WOW!! email is above if your interested, got some new
clones that may tickle your fancy. May
challange your X anyway, hehe. Hey, thanks for the grow setup info, that
sounds like a good one, but what does this
dirt boy know about hydro, hehe. Hey, has that buddy of yours gotten you
to put some fish in your res? ;)
Marilyn Kuss - damn are schools getting more and more liberal, it just
touches my heart. Sure, will be happy to help,
got a few stress relieving brownie recipes you may be interested in, and
from what I saw at the last Olympics, they
should assist the snowboarders in your class ;)
well, that is as far back as I got, see ya
TOPIC - Romeberry results
DATE - 15:58:57 12/02/99
FROM - dirt farmer
thought i would drop in and thank BCGA for producing this fine seed. if
you check out canabis.com biniers from dirt
farmer you can see the plants(#3485 11/30/99)I will let you know what the
yields are later.
I grow 100% organic and would like to throw my mix into the soil mix page
40 lbs(app. 6 gal) top soil from store
2 gal. peat moss
2 gal. an organic peat moss(more earthy)
1 gal greensand
2 gal perlite
1 gal vermiculite
1-2cups each of blood meal and bone meal
2-3 cups fresh woodash from fireplace
sprinkle of lime
i will break this down into a ratio later or someone else can. it can be
alot of thinking. a ratio is the best way to let
someone know a good mix because they then can tailor it to the amount they
need to make
TOPIC - Romberry Surprise Results
DATE - 08:50:42 12/02/99
FROM - Green Machine
Hey Vic,
Just wanted to check in and let you know how the romberry surprises turned
out. I ended up with two distinct varieties.
One was fruity and one was more hashy/fruity/skunky.
You told me that one was probably chemo x romberry since it was so bushy.
She was very fruity during flowering, and i
would say could be considered a low odor variety, since the smell was nothing
like pot. This one ended up being so
fruity that it tickled your gums when you smoked it. The buds ended up
being a light bluish gray color, with dense
trichomes all over the calyxes and bud leaves, very sparkly bud. Once you
put some dry buds in a bag, watch out, you
can smell the stuff in your pocket. This was a potent plant. I cannot give
yield numbers because I had a root rot
problem which lowered the overall yield substantially. This one did yield
about 1/2 of the other variety. Most who tried it
agreed that it was excellent tasting bud. I only dried it for 5 days and
it was ready to go.
The other variety had a mocha-like smell during flowering, but you could
only smell it close up. It also could be
considered a low/no odor variety. This one took a few more days to finish
(53). During drying the smell changed almost
daily. Final smell was more hashy than fruity, but more fruity than skunky,
but all smells were there. This one took
alittle longer to dry, about 8 days. The color of the bud was beatiful.
It was light (almost neon) green with orange hairs
and purple hues on the under sides of the leaves. It was the most colorful
bud i've ever seen. Most people's reactions
were that it was the best looking bud they've ever seen, and it tasted
like great hash when smoked. It definitely had a
more fruity flavor than any hash ive smoked. This also provided a great
stone that you could feel in your shins. The
stink of this bud in a bag is definitely obnoxious...which amazed me since
it didn't smell much during flowering or
drying. It only smells when its disturbed. I call this bud "SR bud" because
I dont know who the father is and its
definitely a "Security Risk" to carry this stuff around with you! Do you
have any idea what strain might be the father?
From descriptions you gave on the net, i'd say the father is definitely
NOT durban poision or peruvian sativa, maybe its
a romberry x romberry or romberry x sweet tooth? I'd appreciate your opinion.
I have the next batch going under a perpetual scrog set up...i'll be back
in 6 weeks with a better report on the yields of
these two varietys from your Romberry Surprise.
I would definitely say that these genetics are amazing. Considering I got
GREAT tasting bud from plants that all had a
root rot problem for most of the flowering period. I also have learned
that they both HATE water and fertilizer. I have two
plants per 3 gal container in a scrog grow, and they only want me to give
them 1 cup of water w/ half strength dynagro
3-12-6 per container per WEEK! They are growing like wildfire with this
regimen. Have you ever heard such a thing?
GM
TOPIC - mite erdication
DATE - 02:23:50 12/02/99
FROM - buddy
Cedar closet freshners keep my grow closet free of mites and other pests.
I also keep a 6" fan blowing across the tops
of the plants at all times.
TOPIC - buddy's mite & pest control method
DATE - 02:03:19 12/02/99
FROM - buddy
My informant's grow closet is adjacent to a room with glass blocks in the
south wall. This room is used to recescitate
common house plants. The natural light in this room is not sufficient to
flower mj, but recently some flowering mj was
put there to "hold". Indians (Indica) developed mites but the sativa didnot
- presumably infected by mites harbouring in
the common house plants. The mj plants were moved back to the grow closet
in an infected condition but soon were
free of mites. Pest control in the grow closet is accomplished with cedar
buds in a loose weave bag which are
purchased from a local vendor as closet freshners (Cedar closet freshner)A
six inch fan blows across the tops of the
plants 24 hrs a day so that the leaves bob and sway. Whether its the fan
or the cedar, it's hard to say, but my mites
are gonzo.
TOPIC - Check it out
DATE - 13:44:44 12/01/99
FROM - Barry
For goodies check it out!!!
Link:
TOPIC - grapefruit
DATE - 10:01:03 12/01/99
FROM - Gfruit
I just have to ask this and Im sure Ill get no answer .But never hurts
to try..first off We are kind of upset that we found
that some one has already developed a grapefruit strain.because up until
a few days ago when we found your site and
read that grapefruit was one of grower3's favorite strains..we WERE trying
to developing grapefruit in fact we kind of
accidentaly stumbled on it from seeds that were accidentaly made by a hermie
excaping our eyes the only prob is that
we
lost the records of what strain the hermie was and didnt think to make
a mother cause we didnt know it was going to
turn so wonderfully grapefruit..(we expirement loosly alot-I know its our
own stupid fault))all we know is its VERY
predominatly sativa with a moderate yield .and if this isnt the kicker
it was polinated with another unknown Indica
hermie so we have these mystery grapefruit X ? seeds that we are making
a mother with..we will of course post the
results now that we'v found you all.the point of all this is, Is there
any way in hell that we can at least have a little tiny
weenie hint of what the recepie is. we are hooked on the g-fruite..and
would love to stabilize t
TOPIC - nexus
DATE - 16:38:46 11/30/99
FROM - trelaway
not familiar with the stuff but I just smoked some bud neem was used on.
The guy'd discontinued use ~ month b4
harvest. Smoked fine, we're all still alive. Weekly should be okay. A
Wow...just heard Seattle had been declared a state of emergency (or one
of those 'cops clamping down' phrases)and a
curfew may be imposed. I think they've even loaded thier guns with rubber
bullets. It's too bad that something useful,
like WTO bashing, just turns into a mob scene.
I have an anon email: trelaway@mailcity.com
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