BC Growers Association

BCG Chat Archives

August Archives


This is the archives from the BC Growers Message Board

TOPIC - Avid
                   DATE - 07:04:54 9/02/99
                   FROM - Lurkin
                   Vic, in my search for a source for avid I found a paper written by someone from the Seattle rose society who said the
                   avid was only deadly to the bees for the first 24 hrs.
                   I'm guessing it's while the plant is still wet from the application of it. The link below is in No. Carolina and they'll mail 2
                   oz. for about $17 plus postage. Seem like real nice folks. Geez, it's too bad all ye mites are gone and ya can't
                   'sperment more..hehe. I guess ya'll just have to keep that pix above on yer frig so ya don't get lonesome.

                                                          Link: Avid


                   TOPIC - Anyone know this guy!!!
                   DATE - 18:17:36 8/31/99
                   FROM - Kyle
                   A friend of mine bought seeds from a guy on the east coast of Canada about one year ago. My friend says the strain is
                   Durban. Although he paid over one hundred dollars for the seeds my friend has got the most beautiful uniform plants I
                   have ever seen. Can anyone tell me how to get in touch with this guy and if he has an online seedbank? Any posts will
                   be appreciated.


                   TOPIC - avid
                   DATE - 17:30:05 8/31/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Trelaway - For me the jury is still out on avid, it feels like a piece of the puzzle is still missing. Everything I find on it, I
                   add to bcga's avid page. It appears to be a natural extract and also appears to be quite safe. But it is very deadly to
                   honey bees. And fish I presume, but can't remeber off of the top of my head. Other than that I can't find any reason why
                   it remains a black market pesticide while more toxic kelthane remains over the counter. Personally, I would never use it
                   on a flowering plant. Although a systemic, it doesn't seem to move through the plant very well. I've done tests where I
                   sprayed part of an infested plant and left parts unsprayed. Only the areas sprayed were rid of mites. For this reason, I
                   don't think much translocates into the flower tissues as they develope. Unfortuanately, hehe, I've wiped my mite
                   population so I haven't been able to confirm these movement trials.


                   TOPIC - dehumidifier water (Retro 13 is you out there?)
                   DATE - 14:29:14 8/31/99
                   FROM - some guy
                   I know I have seen this issue discussed elsewhere in the past, however, I cannot remember the general consensus,

                   should I or should I not use water from my dehumidifier to replenish my reservoir.



                   TOPIC - trouncing
                   DATE - 13:08:17 8/31/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   Are people's concerns about an avid residue put to rest? I'd always avoided systemics because of the bad vibes I read
                   about regarding the residue.

                   Tho, recently, it seems more people are suggesting avid.


                   TOPIC - hey vic...
                   DATE - 09:40:23 8/31/99
                   FROM - anon
                   just wanted to let you know how much i appreciate what you're doing here with the bcga board. if everybody grew killer
                   pot :)-~'


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 06:53:28 8/31/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   youngun - take the link about to BCGA's main page. In addition to helping with cloning, there are links there to three
                   great learning sites for beginners. Cannabis Edge at Overgrow, Cannabis.com, and Emery's new site at cannabis
                   culture. Good luck with your learning, will probably see you at one of those sites.


                   TOPIC - help?
                   DATE - 02:05:56 8/31/99
                   FROM - youngun
                   I am a complete newcomer, and I would like some help on choosing seeds, I do have some friends that have some
                   expereance and are going to help me, so should i start out with the expensive seeds? I don't have a place to by bag
                   seeds. another Q, how do you clone plants?. thanks in advance. I have just run across this site today and it rocks. I
                   have learned quite a bit just sitting here reading all the postings. I hope all you wise masters will take me in as a pupil
                   and share some of your growing tips. More that likely I will be growing outside with a pretty short season and lots of


                   TOPIC - BORG!!!
                   DATE - 23:12:11 8/30/99
                   FROM - greenbear
                   Damn!!Vic I was waiting for a nice bud pic and up comes a bloody nightmare!
                   As i wait for my fight or flight response to calm down,I 'll post about the Romberry
                   f2sXGreatWhiteShark hybrids that are 2.5 weeks old .My hope for this cross is to bring in the
                   smell/taste of the Romberry,as the GWS lacks a killer smell/taste But GWS has the BIGGEST
                   trichomes I've ever seen and big tight heavy nugs.They are showing good vigor,dark green
                   and h


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 18:48:15 8/29/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Trelaway - borrowed the pic from Cannor Nurseries' local garden site, hehe. If we ever meet, I'll give you some avid, it
                   trounced trounce in controlling mites in my garden, hehe


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 18:05:12 8/29/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   nice pic, been trouncing today in fact.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 17:07:41 8/29/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Here's a pic of the dreaded Borg, hehe

                   RoadDog - this is the first I heard that HS is out of blueberry. I'm sure HS will make contact when they are interested
                   in more. I have a small handfull on hand, but won't be making any more for some time.

                   ahhsome - the falling over seedlings is a normal and temp condition, not to worry. I think deeper planting of the seeds
                   and placing them closer to the flos will solve the problem, but?? haven't tried it myself. Also a small breeze over the
                   seedlings from the start can prevent this. Me? I don't worry about it, I just plant the seedlings deeper when I move them
                   from the seedling flat to the 5" pots ;)

                   diane - good to hear, the fun stuff is just starting, hehe.


                   TOPIC - Vic when is your next delivery to Heavens Stairway
                   DATE - 15:01:45 8/29/99
                   FROM - RoadDoggyDogg
                   I plan on using your Blueberry in my MicroGarden Experement but HS ia out . When do you expect to deliver another
                   batch of seeds ?

                   Also props on Romberry my friend just grew ten Romberry plants . God must have been looking down he got 10
                   females from 10 seeds . He is in his 3 week of flowering under a 1000 watt HPS light .

                   He offered cuttings but I want Blueberry over Romberry .


                   TOPIC - Cabon dioxide
                   DATE - 14:45:21 8/28/99
                   FROM - ju-ce71
                   Greetings all, I hope you are enjoying good health and peace
                   of mind. Blazer the UK mag "GRO MAG" ran a comparison of
                   Shirley tomatoes one with fresh air the other with 1500ppm
                   Carbon Dioxide, conclusion "...don't waste money on..better
                   spent on cider and condoms." It may be that the main use of
                   Carbon Dioxide for the indoor grower is to prevent heat
                   damage from high grow room temps. However many grow gurus(ed
                   rosenthal, tom flowers) insist that CO2 increases


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 11:55:46 8/28/99
                   FROM - KQ
                   CG, you might do what the old timers did--plant peas near branch trimmings pushed into the ground. Peas will grow up
                   and entertwine with it. I would personally prefer a PVC or metal frame outfitted with open eye hooks and have twine,
                   string, or fishing line strung on them. This makes it easy for cleanup when the plants are done--just unhook all the
                   string and it all comes off in one piece.


                   TOPIC - This and That ...
                   DATE - 08:01:27 8/28/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   Here's a little item that might make things easier for a lot of gardeners: a big bottom funnel that just fits into the mouth
                   of a standard one-gallon milk or water jug. The Prestone company markets it for anti-freeze and it works just fine.
                   Sturdy yellow plastic with an offset opening at the top fills quickly and neatly. No more spilled fish emulsion going from
                   the tablespoon to the jug.

                   The suggestions about stem-end rot sound good, Oldtimer, but there's not much to be done in buckets since it's the
                   heat that nails the roots, not lack of moisture. Watering 2X a day is too much trouble, and can bring another whole set
                   of problems. Drip emmiting just isn't worth the hassle for backyard veggies. Next year I'll be trying to find some flexible
                   insullation to put around the buckets.

                   Mostly, this is for the tomatos. The peppers don't seem to have much of a problem. The major hassle this year is the
                   salad greens. They did great in the spring, but we couldn't stop a rapid decline when the lettuce wanted to go to seed.
                   The only two reliable salad greens for an entire season have been Sorel, which can go for years in the same bucket,
                   and Basil.

                   By the way, almost all my veggies are planted two or three to a bucket. There doesn't seem to be much difference in
                   yield or growth to the ones planted one to a bucket.

                   Just lazed-out and didn't mulch the buckets at all this year ... didn't seem to make much difference ... they still get
                   watered every morning, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the heat ... Tomatos of all sorts, sweet
                   peppers, jalepenos, basil, sorel, Anaheim's, and assorted greens ... but that's about all. Eggplant does well, but why
                   bother? It tastes the same as store-bought, and vine stuff like cuces and squash aren't well suited to buckets and take
                   up too much room.

                   Anyone have suggestions on vertical growing veggies? Would sugar-snap peas grow on a regular tomato cage?

                   Just curious.


                   TOPIC - keeping plants straight
                   DATE - 07:14:09 8/28/99
                   FROM - ahhsome
                   myt plants have a mind of there own last time I planted the seedling grow straight and the fallover how do I prevent this
                   I have two 40 watt floreseces and one metal halide


                   TOPIC - Danbo
                   DATE - 13:18:58 8/27/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Danbo ph 6 is on the button for toms, cues, sweet peppers, chilies and aubergine 6.8 is to high. Blossom end rot is
                   usually caused by feeder root damage from erratic watering its a physiological problem where the roots lose their ability
                   to take up calcium, its best to simply remove the damaged fruit. Put the plants on water only no fertiliser for two weeks!
                   This is not organic but will give the quickest recovery, make a solution dissolving soluble calcium nitrate at the rate of 2
                   ounces to the litre. Dose each plant with 1 litre of the mix rosed over the root area, having watered the whole area
                   thoroughly earlier in the day. If the plants are tending to wilt a bit, you can spray them with the same mix in the
                   evening. Repeat several times over the two weeks. Then you should be able to start using your high potash feed again
                   make sure it has Mg in it, if not a table spoon of Epson salts per 5 litres of water once a week, it can be mixed with
                   your feed.
                   The cues I'm not so sure about, we only get bitter here if they get pollinated.

                   They are very shallow rooted have you had them dry out any time? A dose or two of calcium nitrate with Mg would do
                   no harm both as a drench and a spray. Once the plants show good new growth some blood meal watered well in
                   should have sweet cues popping out all over.

                   Let us know how it goes, as an idle comment potatoes are best at ph 5.5 above 6 they get more scab.



                   TOPIC - Perp, funny story
                   DATE - 08:10:40 8/27/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   Perp, funny You should say that. When I very 1st went indoor , I started gobbling up every piece of indoor equipment
                   and the 1st. bargain I found was that Diamond emittor! Geez, I wonder why!?!LOL I jsut had to have it after reading in all
                   the books etc. about using co2...The books are merely very loose suggestions IMO. Now they collect dust like the
                   emittor along w/ a couple smaller bulb/ballast combo's like You mentioned below. Oh well, they do make nice side or
                   filler lights for the wild gals that won't stay inline;).
                   Live and learning still...Blazer


                   TOPIC - PH problems!
                   DATE - 07:55:26 8/27/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   I just found my well water ph has dropped to 6.0 . I've been having a nute lockup in the tomatoes, cucumbers ...
                   My soil as well now is reading 6.0 as well. Will watering with 7.5 help this? Any cures? All organic soil mix I
                   customize to 6.8 to start.

                   My tomatoes had end rot showing ca and mg defiencies and the cucumbers went bitter . Must be a lockup issue? OT1



                   TOPIC - Blaz'man...Garcias....
                   DATE - 21:43:14 8/26/99
                   FROM - Perp
                   The info is solid,..Thanx....BUT we gotta work on your "Closing" (sales 101) skills!!!!......you'll never close a sale with a
                   pitch like that, Haaaaaa!

                   ....hey, how 'bout auction style???

                   "DO I HEAR????.....$25 $25 ...NOW $30 $30 ...CAN I GET $40.....$40......"


                   TOPIC - Perp&co2
                   DATE - 09:48:46 8/26/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   Perp, no such thing as a stupid Q Amigo. We have trials in 4 different gardens w/ very similar results. All rooms are air
                   tight w/ proper enviro controls(a/c, timed exhaust w/ co2 emittors,the whole 9). We just can't see the benefit at all
                   compared to using fresh,outdoor air. Yes all bulbs are 1K's except the biggest test room, it has5 1K's and 5 600's. We
                   all were quite bummed out to see no noticable difference. Thankfully it didn't cost alot of $ to learn this 1, just lots of
                   time and juggling heavy tanks! I've read/heard tails of people increasing yield by as much as 300% w/ co2(commercial
                   greenhouses mainly), I say BS! I've yet to see it pay off. My 2 cents anyhoo;)


                   TOPIC - Excellent results on the first try!
                   DATE - 07:12:21 8/26/99
                   FROM - diane
                   Thanx to everyone here and a reliable seed bank (h.s.),I am about to harvest my first crop! I started w/four ak47 and
                   four cin99 in 6in pots; planted in a mixture of potting soil, verm, perl & peat moss in 10in pots with doses of fish
                   emulsion from 2-8 weeks (one or two doses of 20-20-20 in between)and shultz bloom from 8-12 weeks. I was able to
                   successfully clone every female after the males showed
                   themselves after 7-8 weeks b/4 turning the lights to 12/12.
                   I used flourescents from birth to 2 weeks, then a 400mh/400hps combo from then on. Co2 & humidity was controlled
                   by opening the door of the room for an hour or so once a day. Important lessons learned...grow bulbs in the
                   early stage make the stems too thin & lanky; use flourescents...AND Bushy Old Growers tip to top the plants is KEY
                   to make your garden uniform and easier to handle.
                   Also, with less than a $1000 investment I no longer have
                   to rely on ANYONE BUT MYSELF to get awesome smoke!
                   Thanx again to vic & everyone here!


                   TOPIC - LOL!
                   DATE - 00:33:19 8/26/99
                   FROM - Chemo
                   420, you need to do a lot of reading and studying to at least get a clue as to what your doing. Then buy some cheap
                   lights and try to grow some bag seeds. You sound like you expect someone to teach you A to Z in a few sentences. It
                   ain't gonna happen like that dude. It's hella hard work and studying. If it was easy everyone would be doing it. Good


                   TOPIC - Blazer..Only one stupid question???? or 2
                   DATE - 22:52:21 8/25/99
                   FROM - Perp
                   Was you friend runnin 1K's plus during any of the comparisons???? I DO feel lumen/intensity is paramount to getting
                   real results with C02 supplementation, and lil' bulbs wont let it do its thing...jus curious...were these chambers super
                   sealed and totally controlled VENT/humidity/temp wise...hate to pry, jus investigating for my self....L8R bro

                   Does anyone know to what extent C02 is used commercially...this could be a clue...corporations HATE
                   Flufff!!.....maybe even cops started the C02 myth in hopes of getting us to show up @ welding supplies shops???


                   TOPIC - need growing tips
                   DATE - 18:54:59 8/25/99
                   FROM - 420
                   how do you grow pot in the first place, i know you should put 18 hours of light for the first 8 weeks, then 12 hour till it
                   is finished. Do i need to do anything else, to make it bud better, i heard if you pick some of the buds it grows faster.
                   how do you make the plant turn female, i think i keep getting males. please e-mail me


                   TOPIC - Summer of Love
                   DATE - 14:17:58 8/25/99
                   FROM - Ganjahmel
                   Hello folks, I am just settling down from a whirlwind summer of beaches,babes,buds,and beer. Not to mention the
                   wonderful shows I experianced. But now its back to school. I
                   went to my outdoor retreat yesterday after not visiting it most of the summer. Most of the plants were dead, probly due
                   to dehydration. But there were a few survivors.
                   Romulan+ Afgani> Looking good. short stout and smelly
                   Mexican sativa(Sensi)> 7ft+ chistmas tree look. Wonderfull underated strain,cheap too
                   BG Mix> I have three of these, and all three are different, and all beatiful in their own right.
                   I will post a more detailed desciption of my girls later. Only 2 males survived and were culled.



                   TOPIC - respectoplate
                   DATE - 11:25:04 8/25/99
                   FROM - stonesparrow
                   hey yall .
                   haave learned a lot here.
                   did not mean to offeend - by posting -?s elsewhere 'bout points developed here. (greenbean thot MJWorld like
                   PANGAEA, lol) -getit now bout boundries/differences and will respect them. (catli'lslowcatchon)
                   Vic____verythanks for krebs posts iterated. 'Restyall-_____holysh_t!

                   ...stillÖ f's three Xs w/ this sweetmix and still fermenting. f thinks he got it right now and maybe system is
                   contaminaated.- suggestions? humbledimtellin'ya, ss



                   TOPIC - CO2 and Neem oil
                   DATE - 11:12:17 8/25/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   Hey Gang, after a few years now of playing w/ co2 We have decided it IS NOT worth it. Adequate fresh air into the
                   room will more than be sufficient IMO and a few others. I wanted like hell to believe it was worth it, no dice IMO so
                   anyone want to buy My Diamond CO2 emmitor? Goin cheap;)
                   Neem Oil can be a good miticide but don't follow that label if it recomends every 2 weeks to apply. I used it and
                   followed the mites reproduction schedule(every 7-10 days)w/ pretty good luck. Its totally friendly and really can't be over
                   done IMO, BUT I HIGHLY recomend AVID anyday. It has SOLVED My mite problems 100%. It's 270$ per qt. but that
                   QT will last You and everyone You know a lifetime and then some. You can purchase AVID from a nationwide company
                   named Lesco. Do a search and they will give You the closest location to You. I planned on buying it under a friends
                   acct. until they offered Me My own acct. for nothing w/ no pesticide liscence or anything. Check them out.
                   Peace Gang, Blazer


                   TOPIC - Grasshoppa et. all
                   DATE - 10:54:14 8/25/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   Grasshoppa, been a long time Lady! I've been on vaca so havent caught up on posts yet. Email Me if Ya wannna, I'll
                   get w/ Ya Bety;)
                   Vic, Thanks for the msg. of missed posts. I like this spot and will frequent it more often;)

                   Anyone else? I'll get w/ Ya all asap.
                   Keep on keeping on Friends and remember...Be good, or atleast be good at it;)


                   TOPIC - archives
                   DATE - 20:52:39 8/24/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Pi - you must be on drugs, LOL. Say where are you looking for the archives? Check out the link above. I hadn't added
                   the links for june and july, but the rest of the year was there. Many of the links within the archives are farged so it is
                   best to use the back button to go back to the main archive menu before going to the next archive. Everything is
                   updated and accessible from there or here now. Sorry for the confusion. I guess this goes to you too Chronic Man.

                   Natalia - no books for sale here, you musta got lost when linking from site to site.

                   Oh yeah, I found a few cut and pastes laying around on the krebs deal, here's a link


                                                     Link: some clearing tricks


                   TOPIC - Books
                   DATE - 20:07:43 8/24/99
                   FROM - Natalia
                   Any opinions on the books for sale on this site? I'm a novice.


                   TOPIC - old bud and vic / grasshoppa
                   DATE - 19:46:46 8/24/99
                   FROM - pi
                   already checked vics archives. he has not arichived since 1-15-99 so he has the tweener pages stored for a rainy day
                   and i beleive that is where it is.

                   i searched for krebs and cane.

                   is the cheese cake really work vic or would jay know? hehehe


                   TOPIC - CO2 and Archives
                   DATE - 17:23:44 8/24/99
                   FROM - Old Bud
                   ahhsome: You can buy a 'Greeen air' digital co2 monitor (@$1000) or pick up a 'cartridge' style co2 measuring device
                   from your local grow shop (@$25 with syringe).

                   Grasshoppa: check with the archives (link above) or try the WB search at overgrow.com.


                   TOPIC - NCGA chat & strain question
                   DATE - 17:20:42 8/24/99
                   FROM - Sticky Fingers
                   Has anybody grown Skunk T by NCGA? A friend has passed some beans to me, and would like to know its bacground
                   and characteristics. Sorry to post about NCGA here, but I cant access NCGAs chat room.

                   NCGA, if you are around, please give me some info.


                   TOPIC - C02
                   DATE - 13:47:01 8/24/99
                   FROM - ahhsome
                   How do I measure the amount of c02 in my garden????



                   TOPIC - Krebs Method for Hydroponics
                   DATE - 10:49:27 8/24/99
                   FROM - Grasshoppa
                   Hey Vic!

                   I am a mere grasshoppa to my mentors: Sub, Pi, Danbo, Blaze, DC, LaBud, and Skoosh. (Thanks guys! You are great
                   and extremely patient :) )

                   I was wondering if you could put Blaze's post back up regarding his way of using the Krebs Method in his hydroponic
                   set up.


                   La Grasshoppa


                   TOPIC - irish
                   DATE - 10:14:52 8/24/99
                   FROM - sb
                   I'll send that pic along shortly...keep forgetting to pick up batteries for the cam


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 20:27:41 8/23/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Hey frank, any suprises that were sativa dominant are most likely fathered by the peruvian sativa. It was a dead end
                   grow because it wasn't mine to breed. It's contribution to the suprises was a screwup on my part. Indoors, at my low
                   lights, I gave up somewhere between 90 and 120 days, haha.

                   Auggie Iventry - are you talking whiteflies? I know they are common pests in the greenhouses, but have never heard of
                   them being a problem in the indoor growroom. If you are an organic fan, predators are common control measures for
                   them in the greenhouse. If not, there are many degrees of chemicals that should take care of them. I'm suprised the
                   neem didn't work, you spraying the undersides of the leaves?

                   dUK - planting lamps? would those lamps that miners strap to their helmets work? You could strap them to your head
                   for those midnight outdoor planting trips, haha.

                   greensleaves - yes that is inappropriate here. Cannabis com's seedbanks page would be a better choice. There is a
                   link to them and a couple other forums on BCGA's main page, link is above under the photo.

                   Psycho - hey what's wrong with Gallo? LOL Your definately right, taste is definately individual. I still remeber in early
                   highschool genetics when the teacher passed little pieces of paper around the class (no not acid) and asked us to
                   taste them. It was bitter to some and others could taste nothing. Genetics......



                   TOPIC - Vic... about chemical tastes...
                   DATE - 18:14:33 8/23/99
                   FROM - Psycho
                   About the chemical taste in hydro herb...

                   So Vic, what you are basically saying is that some people like me think they are drinking Don Perignon, when they
                   purchase Gallo by the gallon?

                   Just kidding... like I said, personal preferences reign supreme. Maybe I do not notice because I smoked tex mex for
                   the first ten years I smoked. Yeah, there was the Hawaiian, red thai, some great Californian, etc... back in the late
                   80's, and some other niceties, but nothing compares to fresh bud you grow your self. Nothing. I can clip young leaves
                   from my growing shoots that put any commercial herb to shame.


                   TOPIC - KQ
                   DATE - 10:28:30 8/23/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Got it will get back to you later this week!


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 09:11:39 8/23/99
                   FROM - KQ
                   Hey OT1, I'm wundering if you ever got my email that described the fruits on my property?? I can resend if you never
                   got it.


                   TOPIC - seeds
                   DATE - 07:54:07 8/23/99
                   FROM - greensleaves
                   I just found this board lately. I've grown off and on for a few years but the quality isn't what I've experienced with other
                   folks. I'd like to acquire some good seeds. I've found banks and even some ratings on banks but how do I get them.
                   How closely are seeds monitored. Will I end up in deep shit by ordering them. If yes then how. Please help. Desperate
                   for good seeds. If you can't tell me here, then tell me where I can find out. I saw one person asked a question and was
                   told it was inapropriate. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


                   TOPIC - ?
                   DATE - 09:52:38 8/22/99
                   FROM - dUk
                   please , would anybody tell me , where can i order some planting lamps , thanx


                   TOPIC - RS, PS, RSB
                   DATE - 07:26:40 8/22/99
                   FROM - frank
                   hey Vic.
                   I have a small sampling of surprises at about 65 days. The plants all look awesome. I'm wondering what you ended up
                   doing with the peruvian. I have four monsters 1 RS, 1 RSB and two peruvians under a 400w hps and the buds just keep
                   coming and coming. The RSB is ready but I figured I 'll let her bulk up as I don't need the space just yet. The RS (is it
                   romberry?) is about 10% and looks like it needs another week or more. The peruvian is looking great but nothing has
                   turned, like you said she keeps going going going. I just harvested a few other sativas and found I could get the rest of
                   the pistels to turn by putting them outside for a couple of days. I don't see much out there on the PS any thoughts on
                   speeding her up. Shes got two weeks left which will put her at 90 days, did you let yours go that long? My RSB is
                   definitely sativa dominant, is it possible the peruvian was the pollen donor? I've got somepics I hope I can get up
                   somewhere. Thanks again Vic


                   TOPIC - neem oil....whitefly pests?
                   DATE - 06:59:21 8/22/99
                   FROM - Auggie Iventry
                   howdy all,im just wondering if anyone has any experience with small little whitefly type pests in their grow.my friends
                   been having problems with them in his ebb and flow hydro grow.he has been using neem oil in a mix with water and
                   foliar spray according to the directions,i think like 3 times a week for the last 2 weeks.it seems to knock out most but
                   then they come back.neem isnt a systemic is it?anyone got a better cure that works?my friend would appreciate if you
                   shared it with us all.by the way whether anyone answers my questions or not this place is excellent.



                   TOPIC - Just hangin around
                   DATE - 23:52:46 8/21/99
                   FROM - Vic High

                   Chronic Man, feeling better today? LMAO. Info is there if you want to look for it. I've posted on that topic more than
                   once. Or do you want someone to hold your hand, haha. Seriously, chill dude and don't take things so personally,
                   haha. Plants will grow in many mediums, you just need to adapt to each. #4 will drain faster than #1 or 2, so
                   compensate for it. It's just that easy.

                   PS - I remeber you ignoring my questions at laughing moon, so what's up with the double standard?

                   Psycho - you brought a chuckle on a few points, hehe. You pH comment caught my attention. I've noticed that hydro
                   growers need to be more concerned about pH than soil growers so didn't understand your point there. Just add
                   dolomite lime to the soil mix, and no need to be concerned about water pH. On the organic vs chem flavour debate. I've
                   noticed that those that smoke both can't always tell the two apart if the chem was cleared nicely. However, those such
                   as myself that rarely smoke chem weed can spot the difference a mile away. It leaves a chem sensation on the lips
                   and tongue :) It's like a non smoker being able to smell if a car was owned by a smoker or not, while the smoker
                   wouldn't be able to tell. Just my non-statistically significant observations, :)



                   TOPIC - Sorry Hitman, link sux!
                   DATE - 21:55:03 8/21/99
                   FROM - perp
                   http://www.overgrow.com...try that.......forgot about these old "scripts" Ha!!!

                                                        Link: Try this....


                   TOPIC - ckronic/hitman...Budm
                   DATE - 21:47:34 8/21/99
                   FROM - perp
                   Ckronic...sunshine 1 or 2, who knows??? Go
                   to an info site like overgrow.com, how did
                   you find this small board of tranquility?
                   .....and alot of good info comes from Cali, Haaaa! Why don't ya ask US guys? Please
                   don't dis our neighbours who spell funny.

                   Hitman...Security 101..never put your
                   E-mail address UP on the internet for
                   153,000,000 people to view...make
                   sense?...and thats prolly the same amount
                   of Generations a mom can go before
                   noticable drift..give or take a few, if you notice drift, jus raise up a clone for a
                   new mom.

                   Budm....are we s'pose to be sendin' these
                   "donations" to HS???...could ya bring us up to speed on this? Thanks for your efforts!

                                                      Link: Link for Hitman....


                   TOPIC - Hey Budm
                   DATE - 20:06:36 8/21/99
                   FROM - Naughty
                   I was just wondering if you ever started those AK x NL#9`s..and once again thanks for the gift`s


                   TOPIC - O.K.
                   DATE - 19:02:01 8/21/99
                   FROM - Psycho
                   Yes, I grew in soil. I got tired of the gnats, the lugging around of hundreds of pounds of dirt, the Ph adjustment issues...
                   going hydro even discouraged my cat from wanting to hang in my garden. A good thing.

                   I am not condemning soil. Hey, you can grow excellent dope with good yields. But, you are going to work a whole lot
                   harder. Problems are more plentiful, and harder to solve.

                   I am small time, I hand water. I like to use lava rock or a perlite/vermiculite mix, depnding on the season. Lava rock in
                   the winter, the other in the summer. Because of my neutral medium, I need to keep my nutrient solution on the low
                   side, around 6.1-6.2. That is the only prob I EVER have.
                   That's what's so nice about hydro. Since I adjust by bromothemyl blue, I sometimes tend to let my adjustment go a tad
                   too high. I have gotten good at judging the hues, but sometimes it is just a matter of a drifting habit to start
                   going a little too green, and moving away from the very limey-green that is what I need.

                   When I see that iron deficiency look start in the growing tips, I simply foliar feed and double check myself, lowering the

                   Now, OT1 will tell you organics gives a better tasting herb.
                   This is a matter of personal taste, and what ferts you use.
                   I have never noticed the difference, personally.

                   I suppose there are advantages to dirt. Less ferts, less watering, ... [can't think of any others]

                   I would never go back now. The Mediums are cheap and light too, when bought in bulk.

                   If I were you, growing outside, I would go for an automated flood system on a timer. Y'know, a central collecting tub
                   that has a pump on a timer. Out in the sun, you are going to have to be attentive you don't let the pots get too dry,
                   and slow growth. I have zero experience outdoors. But, I would suspect a mix heavy on the vermiculite would be
                   desireable. Others can chime in. I just know indoors,
                   I have no problem maintaining proper moisture.

                   Perhaps, hydro is inappropriate outdoors...


                   TOPIC - psycho
                   DATE - 17:56:50 8/21/99
                   FROM - cedartop
                   not trying to get into a bash with you, wondering did you grow in soil before hydro? regular ferts or organic? i had real
                   good luck with organics this year for my veggies. gonna do both next year. just wondering what type of hydro system
                   you are using. gonna do my hydro in a greenhouse. i'm poor as a snake, but found a greenhouse being tore down and
                   did some excellent scrounging. doing some webpage work for a chemical supply and am trading some work for ferts.
                   "this company will make up anything" legal that is. i just havent pegged what kind of hydro unit i want to go with. any
                   ideas would be appreciated.
                   got a kick out of chronic, dont post much, sometimes vic deletes my post sometimes no answer but it sure isnt
                   something to get upset about. do know that vic has always answered my email even if the questions weren't about
                   breeding. i know i'm about the only professed non grower on the board, but sure do learn alot, wanna learn gardening
                   learn from reefer growers for sure. believe me if i could i'd be growing some smoke. sure do miss the taste of some
                   good bud.
                   later, would appreciate any advice you or others can throw my way.


                   TOPIC - Lighten Up CM
                   DATE - 16:54:46 8/21/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   Hey guy ... lighten up a bit ... I've posted some questions that got response, and others that didn't, and I'm in no way
                   associated with any "B.C. clique", and certainly hope that the operators of this site have no freaking idea whatsoever
                   where I'm at.

                   However, please keep in mind that there are probably
                   only a few folks accessing this site, and even fewer who respond.

                   Take care.


                   TOPIC - CM...
                   DATE - 15:21:40 8/21/99
                   FROM - Psycho
                   You really must learn to cope with perceived rejection more diplomatically.

                   I am sure people just missed your questions, or left them for someone else. Perhaps they had no answer for you, and
                   hoped others would answer.

                   I like to read this board, because it usually is quite pleasent.

                   Here, I'll give you some advice right now: forget soil, go hydroponic. No more gnats, no more smells, no more
                   overwatering, better aeriation of the roots, faster growth in smaller containers, easier to avoid nurient lockup like in that
                   poor plant up above, simpler solutions to nutrient
                   problems (adjust Ph of nutrient solution is all that is needed, usually), etc... Soil is o.k. for average growers,
                   but the pros go hydro. :) (Yes, I know, but I am entitled to my opinion too, dirt lovers!)

                   How's that? I will never cease to be amazed at how some make growing marijuana sound so much more difficult than it
                   really is. In fact, it is a shame that some do this, because for those of us who grow good dope casually, discussing
                   growing gets to be as boring as can be. Breeding and strains is where it's at.

                   And, I have been quite pleasently surprised by my Sweettooth Surprises. They are quite potent, and will make for very
                   interesting breeding. Bashing B.C. is no better than the canucks bashing the Dutch. Of course, take note how much
                   dutch work is in B.C. genetics... and how much U.S. work is the basis for the dutch standbys...

                   If, by some bizarre twist of fate, the U.S. succeeds in coercing Ottawa to fund and create a crackdown in B.C., it will
                   be a great loss to the cannabis community. I am betting
                   the Candian people will not tolerate such a waste of limited public resources.



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 14:31:50 8/21/99
                   FROM - chronic man
                   I asked a simple question, a little while back, about whether it would be ok to use Sunshine mix #4 instead of #2, to
                   make Vic's Super soil. A really simple question actually, and of course no one bothered to answer this question. That's
                   ok, I guess if your not in the little "B.C." crowd, then your questions aren't worthy. This isn't the only time this has
                   happened. I've been snubbed by Vic. I asked him some questions, and he answered one of them, but the other 3 or 4
                   got ignored. Believe it or not, your shit still stinks up there in BC. (And it doesn't even get you high hahaha) And I'm
                   hoping that the BC genetics that I have isn't the same low quality crap that you try to pass off on us Americans. It's
                   amazing some of the shit I've seen coming down from there. Looks good, smells good, but doesn't do a DAMN thing.
                   What do you do to this crap, screen it first?? I'm just getting a little tired of the silly little clicks going on up there.
                   Wasn't that something we all did in high school???? O well, I'm sure I'll get some responses now....but look at what it
                   takes. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. Don't worry, I won't ever post here again, and it's really too bad, because I'm sure
                   we could learn so much from each other.
                   cHrOnIc man


                   TOPIC - neems oil
                   DATE - 14:10:33 8/21/99
                   FROM - pizza
                   i sprayed neems about 9 days ago girls are 3 weeks into bud mites are back is it safe spray again or should i wait 14
                   days like it says on bottle


                   TOPIC - blueberries turning blue
                   DATE - 12:25:30 8/21/99
                   FROM - trelaway

                   just finishing a blueberry clone and, typically, toward the end of week seven, the leaves are turning blue. Now, I
                   attributed this to the strain--blueberry yada yada.

                   anyway, someone told me the leaves are only turning blue because of a lack of K.



                   TOPIC - Vic-- - OT1
                   DATE - 06:33:56 8/21/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Vic & OT1 my modem is fried by lightening, please pass this along to NL420, should be back up by Tues. at the
                   latest. Have a nice weekend. Posted via friend


                   TOPIC - Blue Moonshine
                   DATE - 21:18:00 8/19/99
                   FROM - John
                   Hey guy's. Does anybody have any experience growing Blue Moonshine? I purchased seeds from Marc Emery,but the
                   results i've had so far have been very disapointing. It grows vegetavely very well,but the buds are just so small.
                   Out of 5 clones i put in a sea of green to assess the strain,we were lucky to get 1/3 of an ounce. The other strains i
                   grow yield between 3/4 to 1 ounce per clone.
                   Admittedly i haven't grown out all the seeds,but are they so variable?
                   Any info would be appreciated. THANKS


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 20:39:41 8/19/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   SlaveZero - you didn't get a responce because your question was inapropriate here. Bets to ask HS or enquire at
                   Cannabis.com's seedbanks board.


                   TOPIC - Seeds, Heavens Stairway
                   DATE - 16:32:53 8/19/99
                   FROM - SlaveZero
                   Never saw an answer to the delivery question on the 15th.
                   Anyone know the delivery times to US for products shipped by Heaven's Stairway? Their email address seems to be

                   Thanks in advance.


                   TOPIC - Damion
                   DATE - 13:43:48 8/19/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi D, no email from you, try again.


                   TOPIC - Josh
                   DATE - 07:35:03 8/19/99
                   FROM - Old Bud
                   Hold back to let the other's catch up, simple take a piece of string (6"long?) tie a loop in it, tape a dime to the string for
                   weight, now place the loop over the node (branch) carefully. This will hold back that node to allow more even growth of
                   the canopy.
                   Try it, experiment, you'll be amazed its like bonsai.


                   TOPIC - Budm, did you get my email?
                   DATE - 07:02:15 8/19/99
                   FROM - Damion
                   been having problems w/ that freemail lately. Have a good day everybody!


                   TOPIC - Reply to Oldbud
                   DATE - 00:47:05 8/19/99
                   FROM - Josh
                   Hey Oldbud, thanks for the reply. Just one question though. What do you mean by "hold" back the 6th node for a day
                   or two? Thanks in advance.


                   TOPIC - pruning
                   DATE - 20:03:30 8/18/99
                   FROM - sb
                   I agree with old bud, but I'd like to add that this is a hard area to really f*ck up too badly.Just cut the thing and nature
                   will generally take you just where you wanted to be with very little or no further effort on your part.VIOLA you have a
                   multi-headed thing of beauty.
                   Just for kicks, try removing just the top 2/3 of terminal growth.I've noticed that when trimmed in such a manner the
                   terminal growth stalls, but doesn't die.The lower branches begin to fill out and the clipped terminal growth resumes.Just
                   something fun to play with that alters the branching structure slightly.
                   peace and enjoy


                   TOPIC - Eric: drug blacklist
                   DATE - 12:41:35 8/18/99
                   FROM - Thunderheart
                   I think that Canada may just want to get on the black list that we have in the US. This would allow them to have access
                   similar to China and others on the list. Imagine all the nuclear secrets, arms deals, classified info, ect. This could take
                   Canada from being our friendly neighbor to the north, and make them into a power hungry Nuclear superpower. Sounds
                   cool, huh.


                   TOPIC - Josh
                   DATE - 09:12:45 8/18/99
                   FROM - Old Bud
                   Better to wait until you have the 8th or 9th node, then top between the 6&7. This will give you a nice top clone and will
                   allow the the 5th and 6th nodes to be more established. Next hold back the top node (6th node) for a day or 2 to allow
                   the 5th node time to catch the top node, now you have 4 equal branches ready for flower. When these branches get
                   between 8-14 inches long switch over to flower, wait for the stretching to slow (@2wks) then trim off the bottom 2
                   branches (which should be weak looking and shaded by now) this will leave you with 4 healthy even spaced, uniform
                   height main colas. This would apply mainly to SOG style of growth, for bush style I grow to 10 nodes and top at the
                   8-9th node, grow for another 4 wks then flower, should be @ 5' tall when finished.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 20:44:49 8/17/99
                   FROM - Josh
                   Howdy folks. Just a quick question. If I wanted to top a plant to make it branch out, say between the 6th and 7th node,
                   have you found it better to top when the leaves at the 7th node are very small and recently sprouted and the 6th node
                   leaves also very immature, or is it better to top when the 7th node leaves are more mature (say ~3-4 cm long) to allow
                   for the best branching out success?
                   Thanx folks.


                   TOPIC - VIC re: postmaster
                   DATE - 00:07:55 8/17/99
                   FROM - irish
                   if you get the pics, reply to the irish addy.
                   the posthamster addy now is using cookies.
                   thanks for the reply. i know it isn't exactly a laid back time now.


                   TOPIC - OldBud
                   DATE - 21:17:35 8/16/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   OB, thanks for the susgestions, im going to work on getting as much info about each donation as possiable,on a
                   personel level from donator, as well as from the parents original breeder, when possiable. Im with ya the more info, and
                   the nicer its packaged, the more bidding, the more good that gets done;-))



                   TOPIC - Budm
                   DATE - 20:52:19 8/16/99
                   FROM - Old Bud
                   I was thinking that it would be great if there were a few notes from the breeder or the donator. Any special nutrients or
                   care? What to look for in a mother? Maybe a photo? I think any 'info' would help sell the beans and increace the bids.
                   Cant wait to get seeds, I'm thinking of a special project for A1's seeds.(thats what I'm calling them). Maybe a scrog
                   cabinet like scw's, or perhaps vic's super soil and a 1000w closet. Either way I hope to post photo's and grow reports
                   as they progress.
                   Keep up the great work. Thanks


                   TOPIC - eric
                   DATE - 20:39:31 8/16/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   Locally (southern B.C.) pounds are about three thousand canuck bucks.


                   TOPIC - mold
                   DATE - 20:06:27 8/16/99
                   FROM - waitin
                   ive been curing latest cuttings in glass jars for last 2 1/2 weeks opening jars once a day. missed opening yesterday
                   and today found a grey mold on just one big cola in one jar. took buds out and hung them back up. mold seems to
                   have disappeared. what can i do to stop spread of mold. may have not let it hang long enough in the first place before
                   putting in jars but no problems until today and just on one bud. should i put back in jar after a day or so or what. other
                   jars fine. thanks


                   TOPIC - Early outdoor harvests
                   DATE - 18:06:32 8/16/99
                   FROM - peaceness
                   hello gentlemen, well, this years outdoor season is not quite over yet, but i am in the process of preparing for next
                   years grow site(hauling,digging) as well as figuring out which strains i will be growing next year.
                   I am specifically interested in strains that finish around the end of august/first week of september. Having done some
                   research, i have found descriptions of strains that finish end of august/first of september. (even though i am at the 34th
                   parralel, i am also at 5000 elevation, so i must harvest before the frost). What do you guys think about the following
                   strains, and if they will indeed finish early(anyone have experience with):

                   Ben Johnson (finishes aug 25)
                   Af Pak Hash X Ben Johnson (finshes aug 25)
                   Bumper 5000 (finishes sept 5-15)
                   Burnaby Bumper (finishes sept 5-15)
                   Dutch Treat (finishes sept 5-15)
                   Super Sweet (finishes sept 10-25)
                   Early Riser (finishes mid september, one pound per plant)
                   I also read something to the effect of strains that automatically flower regardless of photoperiod. In fact these plants
                   can be harvested in july also.They are:
                   White Lightning
                   Ruderalis Indica
                   Mighty mite x afghani automatic
                   If i am correct, automatic flowering is a result of ruderalis genes. unfortunately i have heard bad things of ruderalis. even
                   though, i find it fascinating to be able to harvest in july, and in some cases, these plants will finish in 100 days from
                   start to finish regardless of the light cycle. If this is the case, it would revolutionize the outdoor scene, and if possible,
                   one can veg and flower different strains INDOORS under one light cycle!!!! Has anyone had any experience with early
                   maturin strains as well as the strains that flower automatically? my goal is to be able to get many multiple harvests a
                   year with different strains all the while eliminating LEO and the frost-Peaceness



                   TOPIC - HAHAHAAHAHAHAH
                   DATE - 11:09:01 8/16/99
                   FROM - Eric
                   U.S. Denies It Will Add Canada To Drugs Hit List

                   Updated 11:56 AM ET August 16, 1999

                   OTTAWA (Reuters) - U.S. officials Monday dismissed a newspaper report that
                   Washington might add Canada to a list of drug-trafficking and producing countries it felt
                   were not doing enough in the war against drugs.

                   Saturday's edition of the Globe and Mail had said the State Department's Narcotics and
                   Law Enforcement Division was poised to include Canada on a list of 28 nations that
                   includes China, Burma, Mexico, India and Hong Kong.

                   "It won't ever happen. It's nonsense. That is a list of bad guys. Of course Canada will
                   never be on such a list," said one senior U.S. official in Ottawa who asked not to be

                   U.S. drug enforcement agencies are concerned by the rising amount of Canadian
                   marijuana being smuggled across the border, particularly from the western province of
                   British Columbia.

                   U.S. Ambassador Gordon Giffin called Canadian Foreign Minister Lloyd Axworthy to
                   deny the newspaper report, a U.S. Embassy spokesman said.

                   "If this was under serious consideration the ambassador would certainly know about it,
                   and he knows nothing about this matter," said Buck Shinkman.

                   "Canada and the United States are both fighting the drug problem hard and the
                   cooperation between our two countries is unprecedented worldwide."

                   A Canadian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said middle-ranking State Department
                   officials had proposed adding Canada to the list earlier this year but the idea was quickly

                   The U.S. blacklist tracks nations that Washington believes are involved in growing and
                   shipping narcotics to the United States. The White House must impose sanctions on those
                   countries whose efforts are deemed inadequate.

                   The State Department's annual report on the fight against drugs, released in February,
                   praised Canada's efforts but expressed concern about the situation in British Columbia.

                   It quoted Canadian intelligence officials as saying the marijuana industry in the province
                   was worth $1 billion a year, with 60 percent of the crop being smuggled to the United

                   Eric: In the end i think most of you guys pot is being traded for coke and herion from us.....I would MUCH rather smoke
                   canadian pot than mexican anyway...just out of curiousity how much does the canadian homegrown sell for a pound
                   just across the border??????


                   TOPIC - novice
                   DATE - 08:12:49 8/16/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All

                   Novice-- Im with "sb" on the genetic issue, spending big dollars does not alaways equal better smoke. Af has bought
                   seeds from Holland and Canada, in all price ranges, to-date he has a favorites in the 40-60$us range that are far better
                   then some that are 80-120$us. In respect to a metaphor, buying beans, of any decent quality, can be likened to a
                   lottery ticket(IMO), but the odds are not as bad, you have a chance of finding a really nice female, the possiable
                   outcomes in genetics, coupled with the ignorance of not knowing one seeds predisposition from anothers, make it a
                   "numbers game" that anyone with good-basic gardening skills, can play. One word of advice, "take clones" of every
                   female you put to flower, dont let a "winning ticket"
                   be a one shot wonder. HTH

                   Old Bud- Thanks for the input, I wanted to really have as many folks in the community involved as possiable, and I think
                   the date co-insides nicely with the fall indoor garden start-ups. I hope others are also going to participate with there
                   "donations" in mind with the bids, as you are;-)
                   I can say that when the Auction List is updated with the reciently pledged donations, it will look mighty fine, there are
                   some real nice beans being donated, real "once in a liftime oppunities" I hope you get somthing you really want;-))
                   Hopefully Ill be in contact with Vic & RC, and the genetic list will get up-dated by this weekend.



                   TOPIC - A1 bean auction
                   DATE - 17:32:33 8/15/99
                   FROM - Old Bud
                   Sounds like a great time for the auction Budm (Sept 11-12). I for 1 have held back in sending my donation so I could
                   include it in the bid price, you will get some great bids on Ingmars seeds, as well as the others.


                   TOPIC - indoor unit
                   DATE - 17:29:21 8/15/99
                   FROM - novice
                   Can anyone recommend a relatively
                   inexpensive self-contained
                   growing system for indoors?
                   I am new and just want to grow
                   a few plants at at time.
                   Thanks--I just found this
                   site today and I'm damn
                   happy about it.


                   TOPIC - Novice/Optimist
                   DATE - 15:57:43 8/15/99
                   FROM - sb
                   While I agree with some of what you say I do not agree that higher prices invariably mean higher quality/better buds.
                   Huge breeding outfits have huge overhead(this means higher prices as well) and while the average seed passing thru
                   their mailroom may indeed be better, the big name dutch breeders do not have a corner on the market.
                   Our canadian friends offer some very nice genetics at very reasonable prices.I've bought sweet tooth(SOL), nl x
                   bubbleberry(the Joker) and JH x Williams wonder (wilyjack) for a combined total of less than $1oo US.
                   the ST was very nice with an above average yield and my best showed a great deal of grape fruit influence.way better
                   than "av commersh"
                   the NL x Bubbleberry WOW!! I still kick myself in the ass for letting this one die out.My wife and a couple of my friends
                   still think it's the best they've ever had...

                   The JH X WWonder- still have it growing right next to apollo13, G13 and Cali-O if that tells you anything.
                   Lucky? Maybe. Master gardener? Not!
                   I would bet that there are plenty others with similar results.




                   TOPIC - Seeds
                   DATE - 15:41:22 8/15/99
                   FROM - Moose
                   Anyone know how long heavens stairwat takes to deliver to southeast u.s



                   TOPIC - Novice
                   DATE - 14:41:54 8/15/99
                   FROM - optimist
                   Well Novice, you're on the right track. Everyone does have to start somewhere, and it takes awhile to get good at it.
                   The best thing to do for a first time grow is visit the various weed-oriented sites on the web that offer growing guides.
                   There are MANY of these guides available on the web, you just have to search through Yahoo for starters (and there
                   are many more). Some of the online guides are also available in print (check Amazon.com listing of Marijuana books,
                   it's huge).

                   Find the guides, look through and find the info on "Getting Started", "Basic Growing", etc. If you look at a few different
                   guides and FAQs, you'll see the Do's and Dont's pretty soon.
                   Then you're ready to grow some weed! BUT, start with bag-seeds. Just for the first crop, to learn some basics and keep
                   the mistakes CHEAP. If you can't get bag-seeds, okay, go ahead and spend some money on seeds, but it's always
                   better to have a first go at it without risking the $$.

                   When you have the confidence (The Skills to Pay the Bills), then you can try the expensive stuff. Because it is true,
                   the more you pay the better you get, unless you get screwed...cheap seeds will probably give you better than
                   "Commercial" quality, but if you want really kind buds, you need to get a "name brand" seed. If you have a hard time
                   choosing among them, pick the most expensive one (What the hell, why be cheap if you want the best?).

                   And one more very important piece of free advice: DON'T TELL ANYONE. Otherwise you will be another statistic!


                   TOPIC - More specifically
                   DATE - 14:34:37 8/15/99
                   FROM - sb


                   TOPIC - Novice
                   DATE - 14:30:39 8/15/99
                   FROM - sb
                   Welcome Dude, you're like MOST of us.You'll find a pretty even split between us simple/soil
                   growers(worm-huggers.hehehe) and the hydro guys(tech-heads) .There's definitly more than one way to skin a cat!

                   Try here
                   also w.overgrow.com
                   also w.cannabis.com
                   also check out the links from this page

                   Work out a general game plan as far as space and lighting.This will help you in your seed selection process.
                   Anything crossed with northern lights would be a good bet as would a myriad of others.Best of luck


                   TOPIC - How to start
                   DATE - 13:56:31 8/15/99
                   FROM - Novice
                   I am looking to try growing
                   for the first time and I'm interested
                   in any advice I can get. I
                   am going to be very low tech
                   at first and most of you might
                   shake your heads at me but you
                   have to start somewhere, right?
                   Any hints on simple beginners growing,
                   a good seed to start with, etc.
                   would be appreciated. Thank you all.
                   I'm in a new state and I know nobody
                   so I guess I'll have to help myself.


                   TOPIC - Auction to benefit A1s legal fund....
                   DATE - 11:53:55 8/15/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All, well this Auction is shaping up nice, thanks to some real kind folks, digging into there genetics that they have in

                   There are going to be some unique beans up for bid, that for most of us, this will be the only chance to obtain, some by
                   virtue of, they are not marketed anymore, and some due to the rarenes of the crossing.

                   At this time its difficult to point out any new, and solid information about the offerings, as most are still in transit.
                   Heavens Stairway will have all inventory in place, prior to the genetics beeing offered for Auction, all winning bidders will
                   be notified via email, and HS will provide fullfilment, more details will follow.

                   One pack thats in place, and a certain offering allready is

                   White Widow Web's -11 count pack "Widow Warrior" original F1s
                   direct from Ingemar the "Widow Master" the original White Widow creator/breeder. The F1 cross is Ingemars Master
                   White Widow x Durban Poison, The Breeders discription is the following....

                   Height 75 - 150 cm.

                   We have improved this tough Durban Sativa for years before crossing it with the Master Widow.

                   A strong bushy plant with tight buds. A real rush.

                   EARLY HARVEST

                   May/June - October

                   Outdoors harvest

                   Ingemars beans are difficult to obtain, these genetics may lend them-selves well to a scrog gardner, as Durban does
                   well in that type of garden. A friend has grown two strains of Ingemars beans, and they were very uniform, very potent
                   and easy to grow. Theres only one pack of 11, that was shipped directly to HS, from White Widow Web.

                   If your in the market for genetics, remeber try and help out, we have a few details to Iron out still, and donations that
                   have to arrive at HS befor the next up-date can be posted. If you have donations its still not to late to lend a hand, and
                   help out, email "kindauction@bigfoot.com" for details.

                   It looks like to be fair to the people who might be taking holiday, being that mid-Aug--LaborDay weekend(Sept4-6),is a
                   peak anauall travel time, it may be in the best intrest of those wanting to particapate, that it would be best held the
                   weekend following labor day, plus many of you will be starting your fall Indoor gardens and in need of beans!

                   Any feedback is welcome;-)) Thanks;-))))



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 10:35:59 8/15/99
                   FROM - KQ
                   CG, chelated iron is available to the roots due to being held as individual iron atoms in the clasp of an organic chelator.
                   The chelator can be as simple as oxalic acid or as complex as EDTA which stands for ethylenediaminetetracetic acid
                   last time I checked! EDTA is what is used in the purple top tubes in the hospital when they wanna run a CBC on you
                   and do not want your blood to coagulate. The linchpin for coagulation is calcium, so the edta immediatley binds the
                   calcium away from the coag pathway, rendering the blood permenatly liquid. The chelator holds the iron available kinuv
                   loosely so it is easy for the root hair to tear it away from the chelator. A rusty nail in water would only supply iron oxide
                   which is just not available to a root as the oxygen binds it too tightly. I imiagine that if you threw iron filings into an
                   active compost pile, some of it could be chelated by action of microbes, fungi, and organic divalent acids. Other than
                   that it is just far easier to apply it in a store bought solution. Good topic!


                   TOPIC - A-1 Problems etc.
                   DATE - 10:09:45 8/15/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   While it sounds like a conspiracy, and sucks on the face of it, the situation might not be so simple. Proper
                   investigation of child abuse allegations is important, but the use of a state agency to dump on unpopular citizens is

                   Though there may be strong circumstantial evidence of a direct conspiracy between LEO and the child welfare
                   apparatus, it's much more likely that agents of LEO made an anonymous call to begin the process. That way, there is
                   no paper trail back to them, and nobody to sue. They know that the child welfare agents are Required to investigate
                   any telephone abuse allegations, and they know that their buddies in LEO will be more than happy to supply
                   information about A-1 and his family as soon as the child welfare folks make an inquiry about the situation.

                   I've been remiss in not having mailed in a donation to A-1's attorney yet. Will try to get to it later this week.

                   By the way, the acronym LEO has a different meaning in Kentucky. The alternative newspaper in Louisville is called
                   "The Louisville Eccentric Observer", and their masthead & logo is the letters "LEO" in large letters.

                   Here's a question: what exactly does "chelated" mean? Evidently it's some chemical property that makes minerals
                   more available to plants, but how is it done? Would a commercial "chelated" iron supplement be better than a handful
                   of nails thrown into a bucket of water to rust for a week or two? If so, why?

                   Just curious.


                   TOPIC - seattle hempfest.
                   DATE - 23:27:52 8/14/99
                   FROM - irish
                   will be passing through there. but probably not stopping in. it's the 22nd, right? sunday. i just was reminded of the last
                   photo spread...and got a little misty... reminiscing

                   have fun up there. man maybe i should leave earlier...
                   where the hell is pier 70... probably right near pier 69 right?..



                   TOPIC - seeds
                   DATE - 16:29:15 8/14/99
                   FROM - bb
                   yes these are the fundraising seeds i bought from Vic...and actually if you work it out its a 12.50$ off the regular price.
                   40 seeds for 50 bucks.......not a bad deal.....GREAT genetics..


                   TOPIC - Seattle hempfest
                   DATE - 12:46:52 8/14/99
                   FROM - chronic man
                   I'll be there..too bad I won't know who any of you are...last year one of the undercover pigs took my friends glass pipe.
                   Oh well...serves him right...what do you expect for the local LEO to just say "go ahead...have fun..don't you mind us,
                   we're just here to party to..." hehe ya right. Too bad it really couldn't be that way huh??
                   cHrOnIc man


                   TOPIC - seattle hempfest/irish
                   DATE - 12:20:15 8/14/99
                   FROM - sb
                   I may well be there.You?


                   TOPIC - salepricing? and light distancing.
                   DATE - 01:11:58 8/14/99
                   FROM - irish
                   are these sale seeds the "fundraiser seeds"?
                   and if you are trying to "fundraise" wouldn't you want the extra five bucks? (US$/CA$ five bucks is five bucks)

                   hey there buddy-
                   you should hold your hand where the plants tops are/will be. keep it there. lower the light until the heat is too much for
                   your hand, and raise it until you can keep your hand there indefinately. (for a long time if necessary..LOL)
                   was that very clear?.. it doesn't sound like it.

                   VIVA EL A1.

                   also any northwesterners comments on the Seattle hempfest?... next weekend? i see some CC members will be in
                   attendance. going to brave it again, huh? there were some great pics from last years... hope to see some more great
                   pics this time. mmm, lots of blue moonshine..


                   TOPIC - how close
                   DATE - 21:35:33 8/13/99
                   FROM - buddy
                   can someone tell me what is the closest i can have my hps (not air or water cooled) to my ladies??


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 15:03:32 8/13/99
                   FROM - bb
                   Ok been pondering a sale for BCGA stuff...heres the deal I will make

                   10 Blueberry -- which is usually $25
                   30 Of any of the SUPRISE's except the Romulan which i would do 15 of (its usual price is $30 for 10) --usual price of
                   others is $30 for 20

                   ALL this .....for $$$ 50

                   Please Quote "BCGA sale" on email.


                   TOPIC - Sunshine #4 instead of #2??
                   DATE - 12:47:47 8/13/99
                   FROM - chronic man
                   I've been getting some Vic's Super soil ready for planting, and I have some Sunshine #4 mix that I was thinking about
                   trying. The recipe says to use Sunshine #2. I wouldn't think it would be too much of a difference, but this will be my first
                   time using organics, so I don't want to screw up. Do you think it'll be ok to use it?? I'm looking forward to using this
                   mix. Organics seem to make the bud so much more tastier. Also, I'm getting a little tired of the "hay" smell that seems
                   to come from using chem ferts. I have been clearing and curing properly, but that hay smell always seems to be there.
                   I've been using GH, epsom salts, with Sunshine #4 with worm castings.

                   My Shisk and Romberry are looking great!! Seems like I have alot of males ..damn....kinda hard to tell though...so far
                   they look like much better yielders than the Blueberry that I've grown to like so much...
                   cHrOnIc man


                   TOPIC - oldbud
                   DATE - 03:05:45 8/13/99
                   FROM - pizza
                   the superboost is 10-62-10 for is for rooting or for final stages of ripening the budblaster is for extraw boost the problem
                   is they dont tell you when to, stop useing the bloom terra and start the superboost


                   TOPIC - pizza
                   DATE - 01:21:58 8/13/99
                   FROM - Old Bud
                   pizza: I've used it on a few grows and works well at increacing resin. Add when the ladies begin their ripening stage
                   (depends on the strain) untill one week before harvest. Note it does not make the grass anymore potent and can add a
                   little harshness too (again depends on the strain). But it does make the buds stickier and more presentable for some.
                   Never tried the super boost, what do the directions say?



                   TOPIC - fertilizers
                   DATE - 23:14:49 8/12/99
                   FROM - pizza
                   my girls are 2weeks into bud right now Im feeding supernatural bloom terra how long should I feed them this before I
                   switch to superboost& budblaster strain is amsterdam big bud any suggestions would be appreceated


                   TOPIC - A-1,outdoors,predator insects.
                   DATE - 21:25:53 8/12/99
                   FROM - Peaceness
                   hello all, long time no speak but im always lurking. first let me just say that it is FUCKED UP what the government is
                   doing to A-1. i had the pleasure of meeting A-1 in person and he is a really cool guy and knows his stuff. In fact i grew
                   out his white widow 14 and it was the BOMB!!! i wish i would have cloned it!! regardless, i feel for this fellow brother and
                   have donated to the cause, if i was rich i would relocate him to alcapulco, amsterdam, etc. perhaps someday!!Our
                   government is SOOO FUCKED!!! I know there are POTENTIAL marijuana philanthropists in the game that have made
                   money and can make a difference! help him out, besides when you die, you dont take your money with ya!!! GEEZ!!

                   As far as my situation goes, I am small time but i enjoy the herb immensley and am still learnng. I have started my first
                   outdoor venture this year and all are looking well at about 6 feet tall. i have had problems with rain as it has been
                   raining for the last 10 days, but started clearing up today. i was wondering what are the best loom ferts to use. i am
                   using schultz 10-60-10 at 1 teaspoon per gallon of water at every feedin. is this to low of a concentration? are there
                   other better bloom ferts out there, chemical or organic? another question i have is in regards to indoor predator insects.
                   currently i have 4 plants in flowering indoors and CANT get rid of the white flies. are there any predator insects that are
                   effective against white flies even under 12 hours of light? any links would be appreciated. -Peaceness


                   TOPIC - Vic, Mota, Groovie
                   DATE - 20:00:55 8/12/99
                   FROM - Blazer
                   Vic man...Get this. I found a trash/compost bag I forgot in the basement for almost 6 weeks. I looked in too see
                   MILLIONS of mite eggs everywhere and not 1 mite in sight! It was a hot, black plastic bag and the plant matter was all
                   kinds of moist w/ condensation on the bag. So much for the humidity keeping the mites down IMO. Wildest thing I've
                   seen yet. Rather than waiting to see if they would hatch, I took great pleasure tossing them on the grill for a little fire;) If
                   they only screamed or let Me know it hurt, it woulda been much more gratifying! LOL
                   Mota That seed choice is tough. BW kix ass IF You get a keeper mom. I had 1 that smelled like that "BooBerry"
                   cereal My kid loves so much, so sweet smelling it's almost too much. She is 1 stout gal, probably produced the widest
                   fans I've ever seen and is a bushy 1. A good choice. The other 2 I personally haven't grown, but I know several who have
                   and they all seemed quite happy. I did try the Romulan though. Didn't hold a candle to the BW flavor wise, but packed
                   a pleasant punch. Tuff call Man, I'm in the same boat except I have about 10 varieties I'm DYING to try w/ room for 2.
                   What's a Guy to do?LOL
                   Groovy I'd be in heaven growing around there! You have a long enough season for even the longest sativa to finish
                   outdoors. Man I see X-mas trees trying to invision that! A good Thai plant would probably be killer there. Man sounds
                   like a dream IMO, Goodluck!


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 18:54:24 8/12/99
                   FROM - Groovie
                   Does anyone knows of any nice strain to grow outdoors in Brazil?


                   TOPIC - A1 and his kids, sorry off topic
                   DATE - 08:37:27 8/12/99
                   FROM - cedartop
                   i don't have any kids, but i'd be damn if i would let someone take mine. didn't think i would ever be serious about
                   relocating, but if this happened to me and my wife. i think i would and just say the hell with the u.s. of a.
                   seems to me the government is trying to make him spend all of his money just trying to keep his kids and by the time
                   he gets to court with the reefer thing he'll be broke and wont be able to defend either his wife or himself. i dont know the
                   facts or anything really concerning his case. he claims that he is a medical user and that he was caretaker for others.
                   "the reason for so many plants" then what is he being hounded for in the first place? seems to me if the state can't end
                   up getting a conviction on the reefer, they will take his kids and use that as an example. with the state saying fine grow
                   your smoke, but we are going to take your kids. i dont have any money to help A1 and his wife, but i hope that
                   everyone who does will send some his way.
                   this is a prime case of facism in the land of the free. sure is a sad thing to see happening.


                   TOPIC - A-1 Update
                   DATE - 18:23:36 8/11/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   Child Protective Services came and took A-1's
                   kids. They had a false charge of negelect and
                   wanted to put the pressure on. The charges are unfounded and can easily be disproved
                   but CPS want to makes a test case of this.
                   They said his wife left a child home unattended and had to hand cuff her to take the children. A-1 said they kicked her
                   physically and verbally abused her in front of the children as well. She suffered multiple bruises. CPS is dead wrong but
                   what do have they to lose. Nothing. It will take a
                   court hearing to decide the childrens fate .
                   CPS is recommending the children be made
                   wards of the state. This would most likely mean foster care. I'll update on this thread
                   as I hear more.


                   TOPIC - curing
                   DATE - 09:35:50 8/11/99
                   FROM - pi
                   1.) hang/screen them till stems snaps
                   2.) bag them till stems snap
                   3.) bottle buds in canning cars(mason jars)and final cure and storage. the jar should be opened at least once a week...
                   agitated and burped.

                   a single fan leaf from a growing plant will replenish moisture when needed.



                   TOPIC - harvesting
                   DATE - 18:28:06 8/10/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi iggi, at cannabis culture's site in the "online issues" I think Dec98, there a article "Curing Your Medicine" by "DJ
                   Short" the breeder, its serve's as a good model, and really is foolproof, if you pay attention to his instructions, and
                   watch/smell the whole process. It turns out a real nice end product, through the use of hanging/screen, paper bags,
                   and glass jars. HTH

                   Ps if you cant find the article post back, and ill lay it all out for ya.


                   TOPIC - harvest
                   DATE - 17:47:53 8/10/99
                   FROM - iggi

                   I would like some help on harvesting?


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 13:33:13 8/10/99
                   FROM - t2
                   budm i've never used cotton boll compost but i've used cottonseed meal as a nitrogen source for acidic loving shrubs
                   like hydrangeas and bluberries. cottonseed meal has an average n-p-k of 6-2-1. the composting process should have
                   neutralized some of the acidity.

                   mota i'd have to find a way to keep em all


                   TOPIC - Marley B
                   DATE - 11:21:57 8/10/99
                   FROM - 67ed
                   Spud: The address was www.lycaeum.org/~sky/alumni/marleyb/ but that page is no longer available. Maybe if you did
                   a search for Marley B.
                   Budm: that's too bad about the PR pollen..maybe you can get some more Pr seeds. I'll email you later this week.



                   TOPIC - If you had a choice
                   DATE - 10:12:55 8/10/99
                   FROM - Mota
                   Hello everyone, been gone for a while.

                   Need a little help, if you had a choice of growing Blue Widow, Romulan or Cinderella 99, which one would you choose
                   and why? I want to grow a new strain to bid farewell to 1999.

                   Been sampling my latest Northern Light #5 x Blueberry from BCSC. It's a very good cross, takes a while to finish, 9
                   weeks, but worth the wait.



                   TOPIC - Nevs Haze
                   DATE - 05:39:57 8/10/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All
                   67Ed- Im a bit upset with the PR pollen which I went to great lengths to collect, I tried to do a cross with it just for the
                   heck of it, and I think its 100% sterile!!
                   Well fall harvest is not that far off, hopefully my friend will be getting more PR beans. The two haze gals are going a
                   little slow, they are about 5 weeks old and only about 9", they just started getting back into gear after a transplant. af is
                   not worrying about the streach to much, his set up can handle upto about a 9' gal with bending. Will keep ya informed
                   as to the progress. Thinking of a Nevs Haze x NL.....

                   Id still like to know if anyones used "Cotton Boll" compost bought from a garden shop/nursery? How did it work out??


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 23:14:16 8/09/99
                   FROM - Spud
                   does anyone know where that web page is of that guy living in Jamaica which has pics of his plants and who is offering
                   to swap seeds for others from around the globe? There used to be a link to it at www.discover.nl.The address would be
                   really handy for me.


                   TOPIC - women
                   DATE - 22:00:10 8/09/99
                   FROM - 67ed
                   Budm: How's the haze doing? Remember, it stretchessssss!

                   Vic: I checked today on two, bonzai blueberries growing along a stream bank in partial shade. They haven't indicated,
                   but I believe they've triggered from the funky look of the top. Great! It must have been the partial shading. Now they'll
                   finish while it's still warm at night. If this is true, planting in partial shade might be a way to get later varieties to trigger


                   TOPIC - Gnats
                   DATE - 09:53:09 8/09/99
                   FROM - KQ
                   Just learned this from a bonified mushroom farmer: fungus gnats are a threat to him so he uses pint jars half filled with
                   applecider vinegar and water (50/50) with a drop of dish detergent in it. He hangs these all around his operation and
                   they are literally filled with dead gnats. He says it helps! Dude has an autoclave that you could drive a VW through,
                   about 30 feet long or so.


                   TOPIC - thx....
                   DATE - 22:45:37 8/08/99
                   FROM - aksmoker
                   ill go check there.....


                   TOPIC - fungus gnats
                   DATE - 22:29:49 8/08/99
                   FROM - greenbear
                   I use about 1.5-2 in. of sand on top of the soil to break the life cycle when I have the little
                   buggers.Plus get some whitefly traps(yellow colered paper with nondry glue on it) The sand
                   keeps the adult female from reaching the soil to lay eggs,and in combo with the traps will keep
                   them from being a probl


                   TOPIC - aksmoker
                   DATE - 21:58:39 8/08/99
                   FROM - trelaway

                   goto the message boards.


                   TOPIC - help im in remote area
                   DATE - 20:40:04 8/08/99
                   FROM - aksmoker
                   hi everyone...i just wanted to say there is alot of great information here. what i wanted to know is, i live in a very remote
                   place in alaska and wanted to start growing indoors due to the weather but i dont get to town due to the fact it is too
                   far. is there any sources on the net to get the neccesary lighting and whatever else i need to start growing? any


                   TOPIC - Watering
                   DATE - 15:13:07 8/08/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All,
                   Vic- In veg closet its every 3 days for the 1-5 galon pots, and each 2 for the plastic cups, only enough to IME
                   (estamation) hit the lower rootzone. In the flower closet, the new arrivals, get the same treatment they got veging, up
                   until about 3 week, or untill they are looking bone-dry w the soil starting to receed from the container, on the 3rd day.
                   Then they go to every two days or daily, if they have been veged long for the size container they are in its daily. I
                   supposed you could say after two weeks they go to being evaluated each day, and being cared for accordainly. Its
                   twoards the middle weeks of flower, when the gals are really cranking, and they can dry out in less then a day, that
                   they get watered heavy, once right as lamps turn on in the morning, and then 2-3 hours later, they get watered again till
                   run off, all pots have trays undreneath in the flower closet, Also at this time a liguid fert (EJ Bloom & EJ Cat) is added
                   once a week for 2 weeks, and a top dress of hi-P gauno is applied. Once a gal is harvested, the pot may sit around for
                   1-4 weeks before being recycled into a new batch of SSoil, so leaching is accomplished at the Peak of flowering, for
                   about 8-12 days (?),And so far so good, just keeping a eye open for defecientcies, once in a while cant help but wonder
                   "would this one be a runt in fresh SS ?" But having one mom that has a clone rep in each batch of new soil, is a good
                   "barometer" to keep from wondering about those "runts".

                   Auctually been starting to think smaller and more of a standard approach to the 2 closet system, would like to find a
                   couple good moms as keepers, and do just a few in large pots each cycle.



                   TOPIC - supersoil mix!
                   DATE - 11:39:10 8/08/99
                   FROM - edhassle
                   Hello all I just want to thank vic for sharing this no brainer soilmix receipt with us.I usually had problems with fan leafs
                   yellowing and nitrogen deficiency durning the last few weeks of flowering.I've noticed since I started using the supersoil
                   mix the lower leaves on the flowering plants don't yellow and die prematurely.I added some hi phosphorus gat guano a
                   few weeks into flowering,But the plants didn't need the extra nutrients and showed me by the fertilizer burns on some of
                   the fan leaves and tips.The only problem was the fungus gnats they didn,t respond to the gnatrol I used almost a gallon
                   of the stuff each watering and the little buggers keep commin back!

                   Vic I ordered the hypoaspis sp predator and released them a few days ago,Do they only kill the larva in the soil or will
                   they go after the adult gnats also?

                   I finally got my water problem high ph level corrected.I got a spectrapure reverse osmisis water filter that brought the ph
                   down from 8.5 to 6.4 and the plants seem to responding quite well. Have a Great weekend!


                   TOPIC - thanx OT for the straight scoop!
                   DATE - 09:28:23 8/08/99
                   FROM - ph


                   TOPIC - recycled soil
                   DATE - 09:27:59 8/08/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   Hey Budm, it was a about a year later that I noticed my recycled soil started to collapse. We follow alot of the same
                   patterns when it comes to rebuilding it like mixing new soil with old soil. One thing I did was also recycle the plant
                   material by composting the stems and leaves. Keep everything as self contained as possible, haha. How do you water,
                   or I mean what is your watering style? Do you water till run off? Leach periodically? or leach the soil between batches?
                   Just trying to get a handle on this. I want to return to recycling the soil again now that mites are also wiped out.

                   Oh yeah, those mite eggs can last quite a while in the soil, hehe Noticed yesterday that some of the monkey flowers
                   (Mimulus) on the balcony have mites. I think I will try soap here first, something about spraying pesticides on native
                   plants seems wrong ;) Honey suckles took a beating this year fromn the aphids. Couldn't get enough lady beetle and
                   syrphid fly larvae on them to make a difference.

                   Ahh what a nice lazy Sunday.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 07:23:36 8/08/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   ph take a look at this

                                                         Link: downer


                   TOPIC - lol soul :)-~
                   DATE - 07:20:30 8/08/99
                   FROM - anon


                   TOPIC - Pros & Cons
                   DATE - 04:45:10 8/08/99
                   FROM - Soul
                   "If 'con' is the opposite of 'pro', it's only logical that Congress is the opposite of Progress."


                   TOPIC - censorship
                   DATE - 01:55:02 8/08/99
                   FROM - anon
                   even if that bill becomes law the courts will rule it unconstitutional based on the first amendment right to free speech....
                   also, it would be easy enough to arrange to have your server in a foreign country ie. .to (tonga) or canada or someplace
                   in europe. makes me wonder about the congress if they are so stupid that they don't know it's unconstitutional, and
                   with the global nature of the internet completely unenforceable.


                   TOPIC - censorship ...
                   DATE - 18:47:58 8/07/99
                   FROM - trelaway
                   I dunno if I'd worry too much about the information censorship bill--the CRTC (canada's info cops) took a serious look at
                   monitoring/filtering the net and found the job ridiculously big.

                   On the bright side, if it went thru, according to Ron Bennett, DARE would have to take down its web site too. That'd be

                   Seriously tho, kiddie porn remains an issue and LEO has been actively chasing it for a while.


                   TOPIC - pffffsssssttttt.....manganese???
                   DATE - 14:54:26 8/07/99
                   FROM - ph
                   duudz...I have a Black and White screen and I totally thought that was a killer new Verigated strain! Haaaaaaa!.....

                   On a more serious note, Tough Battles ahead with that stupid legislation!
                   ...and, I don't have details, but a Cali person, (I think a Female) with a Medi script got the shaft from Feds. on Friday
                   (they don't give a fuck about the state laws), I believe she was a grower/self medicator. Argghhh!!!!!


                   TOPIC - Excellent.
                   DATE - 13:48:50 8/07/99
                   FROM - Psycho
                   OT1, your analysis is excellent. Since I use a flushable reusable hydroponic medium, I often do not consider lockout.

                   It's foliar feeding time now.



                   TOPIC - Correct Link To The Post Below
                   DATE - 13:18:02 8/07/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Sorry for the Error, heres the link..

                                           Link: Marijuana News-- Pendin Bill a/b www MJ Info.


                   TOPIC - Check this news out
                   DATE - 13:10:25 8/07/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   theres a bill pending that would make it a Federal felony, to have a net sight helping provide info to grow MJ,or even a
                   site that has links to grow info, they are trying to pass it under the joint guise, of outlawing information to make
                   Methamphemitne, heres the link where I read it.


                   Man thats some real BS, the little bit of freedom we have is being made punishable with a fed offence, lets hope they
                   amend this bill, I can see curtailing the info to set up meth labs, but to grow a inocent harmlees medicinal plant,
                   come-on, this is censorship, there are other countries in the world giving there people more freedom, while ours
                   continues to reduce peoples freedoms. at this rate the US will be more like Russia and Russia will be more like the old
                   US was. Somthings really wrong govt. Next they will make it illegal to publish mags and books about MJ, Look out Ed
                   R you might be getting fed time soon!!!



                   TOPIC - A Compost Q
                   DATE - 12:33:35 8/07/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All, went to the garden shop today, theres a great one walking distance, they have incresed there orgainc's recently,
                   they have bags of "Cotton Boll Compost" Im sure nothing compares with home made compost, but thats not feseable,
                   anyone know if this is a good product? Also any one ever use "Feather Meal" as a amendment? Moving 4 beautifull
                   Sensi Stars into the flower closet tommrow, for once the biggest and best looking is a female;-)) This makes room for
                   new 2gal pots in the veg closet, and mixing up recycled with fresh Super Soil, with considerations being made for
                   depletions, by adding extra Bonemeal,Bloodmeal, Composted Manure(cow), and finally found "Fritted trace Minerals",
                   its such a un-exact process, some of the soil is 8 monthas old, but the Gals still are doing as well as they did from the

                   Pulled down another Peak19F2 this one went 56 days, these are wonderfull, the taste as soon as they dry is the
                   sweetest Ive tasted of a un-cured strain so far, they are going to be real nice after curing. Also took down a RSBsup
                   grown in a 2liter soda bottle, yielded about 90grams wet! Strange looking tops reminds me of "Coral Polyps" from my
                   salt water tank, the kind of bright orange coral that opens at night, real strange looking rounded tops.

                   Yall have a nice weekend;-)



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 09:52:35 8/07/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   If it had been Fe def the veins would have remained green rather like Mg but only on the new leaves. To much Fe can
                   also lock up Mn but my bet is still on an excess of Mg.

                   It has turned into a sunny evening here, Iím going to sit in my garden with a glass of Glenmorangie and my pipe, a
                   good weekend to you all. Ot1


                   TOPIC - reused soil
                   DATE - 06:44:09 8/07/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   thanks guys for coming back to this. I'll have to study up on manganese. I hope to finally get this answered once and
                   for all so it can be added as an example of a specific nutrient deficiency on a nutrient deficiency page. Our community
                   needs one of those, haha. Sorry about the fuzzy pic, it's actually not that bad but I forced the size and shape of the
                   picture block a while back on this page so by forcing it to fit it distorted it. Back to dirt, OT, I did a side by side a while
                   back in the 10 gals. The recylced soil had only been used once and the only prep done to it was that I bulled the stump
                   and replaced it with a fresh clone. I watered the new dirt with straight water from start to finish but watered the recycled
                   soil with 5-1-1 fish ferts now and then up to about 1-2 weeks of flower. Plant was romulan. There was no significant
                   difference in yield or visual health. So reusing once had no ill effects.

                   However, OT is right, with the dirt batch shown above, the soil had been through a few cycles and new stuff had been
                   added each cycle. Dolomite was added at 1/3 strength each time to offset the calcium consumed by the plant and the
                   tendancy of the pH to drift downwards as the organic medium decomposes. What is strange is that my pH never
                   moves from 6.5. Tap water was even 6.5, haha, a hydro growers paradise, hehe. Epsom salts were used rarely in soil
                   rebuilds because I always considered it a quick fix ammendment, it being a salt. Also, the last batch of water used in
                   the flush contained H2O2, epsom salts, and a weak fertilizer to hedge my bets, I think I also added a pinch of iron
                   sulfate in this case. But I can see the dolomite lime having an accumulated effect.

                   However, I think OT touched on the real cause of the nutrient lockout, not flushing the soil. Because I had to minimize
                   runoff, the plants were rarely watered to runnoff so a salt buildup may have occurred (even though I don't fertilize as I
                   go). Only problem with this idea is that even after sitting out in the winter rains, plants grown in this dirt still showed
                   nutrient deficiencies??? BD recently got a g13 cut in this dirt via a friend. It was a real pale yellowish green colour even
                   though I fed it with 5-1-1 fish ferts. I should have taken the time to flush between crops at least.

                   Anyway, I'll research the manganese, my main goal by posting the pic was to get feedback on what nutient disorder it
                   was indicative of. Learning what cause the nute disorder would just be a bonus :)


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 03:08:29 8/07/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Haha Psycho I have to admit I had some doubts about zinc and had enlarged the jpeg to look at the growing tip my
                   eyesight is not what it was and the screenís small. Yes there is some leaf distortion but the tips are perfect with the
                   start of green coming this still says manganese to me. If it was a combination problem with the zinc just coming in I
                   would have expected the tips to have dieback and hooks even at that small size, as zinc chlorosis start at the leaf tips
                   then the edges and works the way in. I have to admit that I have never seen this problem on an indica as I mainly grow
                   satís or sat hybrids so they may not respond in the same way, they seem much more sensitive and respond faster to
                   deficiencies than indicaís. [see 7/26/99 post] ==> Vic said he was using recycled soil and the plant was blueberry well
                   every plant has a threshold need for specific nutrients. His soil mix is rich and cant be deficient in any nutrients but he
                   could have one in excess that would lock up manganese and this would be magnesium. So as a guess, I suspect he
                   added additional Epson salts and maybe dol lime when he reused the compost. That the problem was resolved by
                   flushing sort of clinches it for me.

                   If I saw that symptom and where I growing hydro well yes I would add additional Zn Mn Fe.
                   But with soil or soil peat mixes I think it is a mistake to add more of something to compensate for an imbalance in the
                   potting mix rather than trying redress the problem! Vic flushing the soil was a good first move IMHO. We talked about
                   reusing compost a while back, personally I feel it should stacked out doors for the winter so the rain can flush the salt
                   build up slowly and allow the micro flora to break down the old root residues and regain a balanced population and start
                   working on the humus again. This helps to overcome single crop soil sickness to some extent. It is much better to
                   grow another crop in it before reusing it for puff. Crop rotation does good things for yield and the health of plants come
                   to that building the fertility of soil or compost. I think that compost reusers that try adding new things to replace the
                   things used up by the previous crop, should think about this! It would be interesting to test a half half grow of identical
                   clones using new and reused compost as test

                   It is interesting that hemp grows best in natural soil with a ph range 6.5 to 7.5 with no deficiencies problems what so
                   ever! This ph band also gives the best weights per hectare of seed or bast fibre, this seems to go contrary to the
                   general attitude of cannabis growers any ideas why??

                   Psycho thanks for giving me something to muse on this wet Saturday morning, time for another puff!!!

                   All the best Ot1


                   TOPIC - friends inquiring
                   DATE - 03:07:55 8/07/99
                   FROM - G-note
                   hey there i'm new to this stuff.
                   Looking for a good system (chart) , of food/ratio/growth- stages for water born girls.
                   as well as some new girls in and around the bc area
                   that are producing good amounts.
                   thanks i hope you understand what i mean.



                   TOPIC - fun to stab at
                   DATE - 22:57:33 8/06/99
                   FROM - hand
                   how it works.
                   one hermy=no genetic diversity
                   two hermys=genetic diversity
                   plants can't make new jeens like us.
                   a roomful and your pantsed.plants normally can't spontaniously create new genetic material to work with


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 18:14:40 8/06/99
                   FROM - MontanaBoy
                   Can the experts here take a look at these pictures and tell me if this is weed? TIA



                   TOPIC - OT1, now, now...
                   DATE - 15:55:56 8/06/99
                   FROM - Psycho
                   Now, now, look at those tips in the apical meristem cutting at right angles halfway up their lengths? That's zinc
                   deficiency in my book.

                   It can be tough to distinguish iron from manganese, so I erred with caution. I too suspected, since the whole leaf is not
                   yellow, and it has that halo effect. But, since all three often occur together due to a too base water supply,
                   I just went with the whole enchalada.

                   Nice to speak to you again, we have crossed, albeit I have changed monikers. May life be kind to you. Grow hard.


                   TOPIC - GreenyellowRed
                   DATE - 14:15:47 8/06/99
                   FROM - Ras Tal
                   Wait until most of the little white hairs have turned red.


                   TOPIC - KGB
                   DATE - 13:25:40 8/06/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi Bro, Sorry I did not reply sooner, I got it, and will handle it tommrow, Ill email ya as well, have a great weekend



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 11:08:37 8/06/99
                   FROM - GreenyellowRed
                   What is the ideal time to harvest the bud off your Plant????


                   TOPIC - Budm - what gives?
                   DATE - 11:05:02 8/06/99
                   FROM - KGB
                   Hey bro -
                   Sent that addy again...dunno if it got through cause I
                   didn't hear back from you. Is you UK address functioning?
                   Lemme know and if necessary I'll send it again..and again.



                   TOPIC - Auto Flowering
                   DATE - 10:24:19 8/06/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   Your buddy gave you a strain with Ruderallis in it or a pure strain. It finishes in about 12 weeks reguardless of
                   the photo period. It's great for colder hemispheres where the growing season is short. Most have found it had to work
                   as you can't clone it. Also the potency leaves some to be desired.


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 10:21:45 8/06/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Psycho its the best photo of manganese deficancy I've ever seen!!!!!! There are no signs of iron or zinc probs though.


                   TOPIC - Seeds to hydro, what starting medium?
                   DATE - 09:49:21 8/06/99
                   FROM - Baudelaire
                   The peat pot thread got me thinking again about techniques for growing seedlings intended for vegging in a hydro setup.
                   The reason I have experimented with peat pots and pellets to begin with is that I needed a medium to germ and grow
                   out seedlings that could later be transplanted into net cups or large aggregate mediums like lava rock or hydrocorn.
                   Peat pots and pellets seem to come close to the solution of providing a fine medium for seedling germ and early growth
                   that can contain the fine medium when placed in hydro, so that the fine particles are not washed into the hydro solution
                   where they can cause problems. Not the perfect solution, but close.

                   What does everyone else do? Rockwool/oasis I know, but hate the non-recyclability and specialty growshop nature of
                   those products. So, barring those, any other ideas? Clones aren't a problem, I can clone straight into large aggregate
                   mediums as fast as any aero-cloner west of the Pecos......But seedlings challenge me.



                   TOPIC - what is it?????
                   DATE - 09:05:02 8/06/99
                   FROM - Dee
                   i started seeds i got from our reg bag guy. He said they were from good stuff but doesnt have a name. These plants
                   started flowering while still under 24hr flo lights. Before they were even a month old. Isnt this a unusual thing to have
                   happen?? It was very easy to catch the males before any fertilization took place. The girls have very long while hairs.
                   Very compact already at the tops and i see hairs coming out all the way down the main stem. We are trying the SOG
                   method for the first time. Can anyone give me an idea of what strain i may have here??????


                   TOPIC - female tokers
                   DATE - 08:23:01 8/06/99
                   FROM - Heidi
                   Any chicks who smoke weed and want to share some good high times?


                   TOPIC - A rose, by any other name...?
                   DATE - 08:22:40 8/06/99
                   FROM - Soul
                   Your posts are always clearly you, you're right...it works. Nice strategy old friend - KUDOS!



                   TOPIC - oh,..you got us thinkin'...
                   DATE - 08:17:58 8/06/99
                   FROM - perp
                   ....but it depends on what the meaning of is, is.
                   .......sorry, couldn't resist! Ha!
                   Happy Friday!


                   TOPIC - Soul
                   DATE - 07:24:48 8/06/99
                   FROM - F2
                   only those that know, notice. so the shapeshifting serves its intended purpose :-)


                   TOPIC - I Need a Remedial Speed Reading Course!
                   DATE - 05:33:40 8/06/99
                   FROM - Soul
                   Sorry "F2"...I DID read it too fast, you're quite right! The selfed plant's offspring would exhibit more "resessive traits"
                   exactly because there is less genetic diversity and consequently increasing the probability of resessive genes

                   Hopefully we got folks thinking at least.

                   You're into "shapeshifting" lately I notice - why the continual name changes?


                   TOPIC - Help that seedling!
                   DATE - 21:42:31 8/05/99
                   FROM - Psycho
                   Would someone please give that poor plant in the picture some iron, zinc, and manganese? Eeeekkk! Down ph, down!


                   TOPIC - Soul;not to put too fine a joint on it
                   DATE - 16:23:43 8/05/99
                   FROM - F2
                   Soul, i think you might have missed the context of my remarks, buddy:
                   in the phrase, "This is ESPECIALLY true", the pronoun "this" refers to the statement in the preceding sentence, "some
                   of them will show alot of genetically recessive...traits", thus yielding the following content:

                   "selfed" F2s are especially likely to show recessive traits (and mutations), due to the especially limited gene pool and
                   mutagenic stresses of the selfing process.

                   your point is well-taken about the greater genetic diversity in a heterozygous pairing, but my point was a bit different,
                   focussing more on the actual process of selfing.

                   vive la difference.


                   TOPIC - Nice explanation F2...
                   DATE - 12:53:41 8/05/99
                   FROM - Soul
                   Please let me edit one thing though:

                   A selfed plant's F2 generation would tend toward LESS, not more variation. That's because there are fewer distinct
                   genes to recombine than in the case of a sister/brother cross which combines the genes from TWO of the original
                   combinations of parental genetics.


                   TOPIC - ATTN BUDM
                   DATE - 12:35:02 8/05/99
                   FROM - KGB
                   You've got mail.



                   TOPIC - Vic-Big John - KGB - SB & OT1
                   DATE - 09:29:07 8/05/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All,
                   Vic- Check email.

                   Big John- Im not sure what a "retarded" stone is, but a strong non cerebal Indica like a Afagani might be waht your
                   looking for, Ive heard one of the best Afganis on the market
                   is Home Grown Fantasys, its been refined for the past decade and yields great results. HTH

                   KGB- That email with your addy never made it, resend when you can.

                   SB- Thanks;-)) I have a feeling those eggs will recieve lots of action, especially the one with the DTHF in it, as the old
                   SSSC and SB genetics, command a lot of intrest.

                   OT1- Reply has been sent, Thanks;-)



                   TOPIC - seeds
                   DATE - 08:19:13 8/05/99
                   FROM - Big John
                   Thanks F2
                   I have grown NL with good results and also this year bubble berry that is fine so-far.Im looking for that super high or
                   as I stated before THE RETARDED STONE.I thought some one out there could tell me what they would
                   recommend?Also still looking to get a reply about OIL as asked in my previous post. Thanks again


                   TOPIC - spud, Big John, mycorrhizal stuff
                   DATE - 07:39:57 8/05/99
                   FROM - F2
                   spud, the "how to" (gibb. acid, light deprivation, severe pruning, etc) i will leave to others. but the results, well i can give
                   you a few parameters...

                   you may have heard about the high degree of variation that you get in F2 generations (the first "inbred" generation).
                   unless you happen to have a "stabilized" or true-breeding strain, this is definitely TRUE: one tends to see alot of
                   different forms, levels of vigor, growth and maturing rates, and potency, among the F2s. some of them will show alot of
                   genetically recessive (as opposed to "dominant") traits, and it's possible that no 2 plants will be alike in phenotype.

                   this is ESPECIALLY true of "selfed" F2's, since the gene pool is that of a single plant, and additionally the plant has
                   been significantly stressed to produce the seeds in the first place (stress is mutagenic). the process is not equivalent
                   to cloning your mother plant. if you have alot of seeds, you will probably get plenty of variety, but whether you will see a
                   repeat of the "hell chronic" mother plant is up in the air. with more seeds you'll stand a better chance.
                   plus, you will get an inkling of what the parentage of your mother plant was: the parental phenotypes usually manifest
                   themselves in the forms of the F2 generation.
                   unfortunately (for cubing purposes), your offspring are likely to be 100% female. at some point you need to bring in a
                   male with the right genetics to produce a breeding pool...

                   definitely save your original plant in clone; it's VERY VERY unlikely to cube back to an exact "duplicate" of the original

                   Big John, check out the various products on offer on-line. be aware that you get what you pay for; cheap seeds will
                   yield acceptable quality most of the time, but if you want really primo buds you have to buy the expensive seeds. btw,
                   dr. greenthumbs (or whoever sells "niagara") is producing seeds that are bred for your region...

                   myco-stuff: read a fascinating article about tropical leaf-cutter ants and their underground "food-fungus farms", where
                   they use symbiotic streptomyces (antiboitic-producing) bacteria to combat parasitic mold infestation of their
                   "monoculture" fungus crops. pretty amazing stuff!
                   nytimes, tues aug 3rd, "science times" section: i'd post a link, but they want you to pay to purchase this article, when
                   it could be found in millions of recycling bins across america! yeah, right!

                   "OverGrow the Govt!"


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 21:47:12 8/04/99
                   FROM - Spud
                   Had only 1 seed of a hell chronic strain, successfully germinated. But with respect to breeding, I will not be able to
                   cube to get back to original parent genotype. What are the scientific principles governing selfing? I was thinking of
                   cloning her (I think it will be female because it was an isolated seed in a crop of females which probably derived from a
                   stray male flower) a few times and applying Gibb. acid to one of the heads to promote male flower growth and then use
                   the pollen to cross with a female of the same strain. But is this still inbreeding? Because I thought inbreeding was
                   crossing two plants that were slightly genetically different, but of the same strain, but these are clones of the exact
                   same plant.

                   Basically, I want input from as many experts out there as to what sort of genetic working can be accomplished when
                   you only have the one genotype to work with. Is it still possible to cube or does crossing two plants of the same
                   genotype yield plants of exactly the same genotype or does any genetic recombination occur? Will the best I can
                   come up with in trying to replicate the original parent be to clone?
                   Thanks in advance.


                   TOPIC - Vic, food for thought...
                   DATE - 21:24:04 8/04/99
                   FROM - Da Man
                   Well, I thought you might like to glance at the thread New World Order, in the Shark tank. You see, I share your
                   sentiment that it would be sad to condemn Jay if he is legit. Something is not right about him.

                   Take a lookee at that last entry he made, right above webfish, where he claims to have heard chatter about
                   fullmetaljacket having run a scam called Sunny's Seedbank,
                   and everyone who ordered got ripped off. Well, I do not believe FMJ has ever used that moniker before the past week or
                   two. We know who Sunny is, for christ's sake!

                   I do not know... when he posted at Seedbanks that Danbo was ditzing NCGA, when he had clearly complimented
                   something just is not right about this guy. I suppose it is possible that a Spookbuster author created this story about
                   FMJ for whatever reason...

                   Something isn't right. I do not have the ability to communicate with the people you do. What decision have you all
                   reached, if any, about this guy Jay?

                   Sorry all for cluttering with this off-topic stuff, I guess it will be deleted if it is unacceptable.


                   TOPIC - Hi all
                   DATE - 21:01:20 8/04/99
                   FROM - Big John
                   Hey folks Im a virgin to this sight.I found it one month ago and have be checking it out every night,Im on my PC.I have
                   visited many sight and this is the only one I have bookmarked now.It has it all........Im from SOUTHWESTERN Ontario
                   Canada.And have been growing for 12 years out/in doors.Cant say enough about the help this sight has given
                   me.Thanks again
                   Here now is a few Questions ...
                   (1)What would a few of you recommend for a good,easy to grow
                   seed for Indoors.There are lots of them on here but Im looking for a good yield and a wicked almost retarded high(hehe)
                   and most of all a stain that is hardy and easy to grow???I would take any or all feedback ..Thanks
                   (2)Can I get a recipe how to make Oil But not the butane one Im talking for a pound or so...Also how do you make
                   honey,cherry and or hash oil???whats the difference??
                   Thanks folks and I hope to get as much feedback as possible..Big John


                   TOPIC - Budm - please confirm
                   DATE - 19:50:56 8/04/99
                   FROM - KGB
                   Did you receive my addy? Lemme know if all's well at my usual email location.

                   Thanks bro,


                   TOPIC - Budm
                   DATE - 18:30:51 8/04/99
                   FROM - sb
                   Message rec'd and I'll make sure that that happens tomorro.


                   TOPIC - no kidding in my tv
                   DATE - 18:29:46 8/04/99
                   FROM - cedartop
                   bro, gotta thing you might be wrong i threw my out the window and didnt see anyone come out of it. lol, thanks i
                   needed a laugh tonight


                   TOPIC - jack
                   DATE - 17:36:14 8/04/99
                   FROM - 180
                   yes, jack, it's all true. in fact, they are inside your tv set and watching you every day when you watch the simpsons
                   re-runs! you best watch yourself!

                   be safe little buddy!


                   TOPIC - is it true?
                   DATE - 14:49:47 8/04/99
                   FROM - jack
                   I hear that heavens stairways is a big F.B.I. thing and that they will get you if you order seeds is it true?


                   TOPIC - Pots, Pucks, & Schmucks
                   DATE - 13:13:15 8/04/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   Peat Pots might be useful for some folks, depending on the soil mix they contain. They certainly don't break down
                   when transplanted into outdoor gardens. Only a tap root can break through the bottom, and removing the bottom prior
                   to transplant risks damage to the root. They may have an advantage over thin plastic cups as far as insulation from
                   temp. extremes, but any foam cup can do that, and do even bettter if they are doubled-up.

                   As for Jiffy-7 "hockey-pucks", they can work very well, depending on the PH tolerence of the plant or sprout.
                   Sometimes they can work fine, and other times sprouted seeds just sit there and die. I suspect that PH and
                   temperature are the culprits, but am not sure. At any rate, here's the way we used to do it: Take a piece of aluminum
                   foil and cut into rough squares of about 4 inches on a side. Then place them on a soft cloth or towel and put7 or 8
                   holes in the middle of each with a toothpick. Then place a Jiffy-7 that has been soaked in warm water ( maybe with a
                   little extra nutrient and some limestone ) and put it in the center of a prepared piece of foil and fold up the edges to form
                   a tin cup around the ball of peat. Plants can grow up to a foot and more in this kind of container, and can be watered
                   from the top or the bottom. A root ball forms around the inside of the "cup", and they transplant very well, especially if
                   given a little jolt of
                   commercial transplant stuff.

                   Sending Any kind of threat to a judge or officer of the court ( prosecuters ), or posting messages of incitement to do
                   such things, is pure stupidity! For one thing, they will come after you with both barrels. A-1's troubles will be small
                   change compared to what will happen to anyone caught threatening judges, prosecuters or other public officials. The
                   Other Big Reason to avoid even the Appearance of condoning such tactics is that there are Still government agents
                   who are charged with stirring up trouble and provoking people so they can place them in the trick-bag. It happens all
                   the time with "hate" groups and websites, and I'm Sure they are doing the very same thing in the Enviormental and
                   Hemp movements.

                   "Agent Provocateurs" are a very old tactic, and were used very effectively against the anti-war movement and the civil
                   rights movement. Beware.



                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 12:09:49 8/04/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Baudelaire and sb are you talking about jiffy 7's I have a friend who produces rare tomato plants useing them, over a
                   million a year useing seed and cuttings and recons losses are less than 1%. I was going to give them a try I'm not so
                   sure now are these the same things? Specificaly made for capillary matting and must never be top watered?

                   Budm Mail call!!!!!

                   All the best Ot1


                   TOPIC - 2 cents on peats and pucks
                   DATE - 10:22:10 8/04/99
                   FROM - sb
                   I agree that peat cups work quite well, however I find them wholly unnecessary unless one is overly apprehensive
                   reguarding transplanting.
                   The "hockey pucks" SUCK! (IMHO) I had a bad experience with them drying out once with some expensive beans and
                   never again......ok ok so it was probably my fault, but still

                   I'm an advocate of starting beans directly in the soil/media that will contain them throughout their growth......paper
                   towels and all that crap..BAHHH HUMBUG


                   TOPIC - Peat pots
                   DATE - 09:39:03 8/04/99
                   FROM - Baudelaire
                   Peat pots work great for seedlings and clones as long as you don't let them dry out. The peat tends to wick the
                   moisture out of the soil pretty fast. After drowning more than my share of beans in plastic cups and soggy soil, I've
                   come to appreciate the fast drying of peat pots. I use a vermiculite/perlite/soil mix in equal portions for seedlings and
                   clones, water daily, and just pop the pots into a hydro station when ready for serious vegging. The pots can restrict root
                   growth if you don't score the bottoms before planting. I usually rip the whole bottom right off.

                   It's another story with the hockey pucks. The peat is too acidic for seeds, and compresses to soggy muck when
                   watered. I've had a couple of 0% germs with seeds in the puck-pots. However, I've had good luck with clones. In a
                   side-by-side test with clones from the same plant the cuts in peat pots rooted faster by about 5 days, but the
                   puck-pots did work, didn't lose a single clone. Either one sure beats the hell out of rockwool.



                   TOPIC - SHAGGY and peat pots
                   DATE - 08:09:14 8/04/99
                   FROM - KGB
                   Thanks Perpetual for the tip...Conemarra - yeah, those Jiffy
                   things are prolly what people were complaining about, not
                   the other peat pots. Thanks.

                   SHAGGY - are you still out there? Saw your posts re: SE
                   Asia weed...I've got a lot of time and experience there.
                   Let's email...come on back good buddy.



                   TOPIC - arctostaphylos
                   DATE - 07:18:53 8/04/99
                   FROM - Vic High
                   damn occam, we walk in small circles. I got a chuckle that it was oregon that put two and two together when it was
                   BC's UBC that has exploited it with "Vancouver Jade" (their cultivar of uva ursi).I've been studying something very
                   similar with a larger artostaphylos species. I think it would make a great ornamental, however, it's a bitch to propagate.
                   Good luck finding a seedling. And Fraser Farms and other similar outfits are lucky to get 5% success with cloning.
                   With soil from the natural plant's location, I've been able to substantially improve the cloning rate but am still far off
                   anything commercially viable.


                   TOPIC - peat pots
                   DATE - 05:19:04 8/04/99
                   FROM - Connemarra
                   just don't use those jiffy "hockey puck" pots with the mesh around them, they are not friendly to seedlings and clones.


                   TOPIC - KGB...peat pots...
                   DATE - 23:06:15 8/03/99
                   FROM - Perpetual Harvest
                   I use'm, I swear by them!!!....Their FINE for seedlings, PH neutral and break down fine,..... I also expose them to 2
                   weeks plus of 100% Humidity in my cloning rig, an' they are stable for more than 2 weeks plus! These are handy for
                   space saving (during Veg. state) also, depending on your Whole set-up and needs.
                   Clone forth and Multiply, ph


                   TOPIC - Flushing, and peat pots
                   DATE - 22:20:16 8/03/99
                   FROM - KGB
                   Howdy ho -

                   Ok, since no one's answering my question on adpc, thought I'd ask the good folks here. Thus: is one week of flushing
                   adequate for clearing the girls of all/most nutes? I usually do two and find that's enough, but I have to speed things up

                   Also: peat pots...they looked so cute and convenient right there on the shelves at Home De Pot, so I picked up a pack.
                   But wait: are they safe for seedlings? I've heard rumors of pH and break down-ability problems. Please speak, old wise



                   TOPIC - mycorrhizal fungi/inoculation
                   DATE - 22:07:07 8/03/99
                   FROM - occam
                   A nurseryman in Oregon improved the rooting percentage of Arctostaphylos uva-ursi `Massachusetts` (Kinnickinnik v.)
                   from 75% to 95% by inoculating the rooting medium with a solution made from water and mycorrhizal roots.

                   Roots & water were liquified in a kitchen blender; this mixture was applied to the rooting medium. Cuttings examined in
                   6-8 weeks showed definite improvement in root system development and overall health. Losses in establishment after
                   potting up were also significantly reduced.

                   >>There are many facts yet to be known, such as which particular mycorrhizal fungus is best for a specific plant, and
                   the most economic and effective way for the propagator to culture and apply the treatment. There seems little benefit in
                   providing inocula for plants that are easy to root...<<

                   from "Plant Propagation for Nursery Growers"
                   by Bruce Macdonald.

                   This deals with propagating, specifically, but I hope it helps.



                   TOPIC - Fungi
                   DATE - 21:43:59 8/03/99
                   FROM - Strider

                   Hey...All...! George...... I've heard of phototrons but dont really know the workings of them. But you can be sure
                   someone does! maybe they will reply and let us know!
                   Budm......Oldy who's mouldy.......hibe. thanks for the input. I have a tendency to jump into things that intrest me
                   enthusiasticly. kind of like a dog on scent! I don't expect any miracles out of the mycorrhizae but.. if they can give my
                   plants a little edge in the stress department. Perhaps provide a little more efficent nutrient uptake and enhance root
                   health thats a lot. It would more than earn them a spot in my soil provided they can be cultivated from previous grows
                   without a lot of hassel.

                   I wish I knew a little more botany than I do. I still havent got it clear in my mind, or been able to find any specific
                   reference as to whether the mycellium around the root of a living plant can be broken up and put into contact with the
                   root of another plant and infect that root system. or does the infection/innoculation only occur thru spores? how long
                   will mycellium live after the host is dead? the diff species in the order glomales get thier carbohydrates from the host.
                   They cant produce thier own food. Oh well I need to go to the library anyway... I'm curious too George!


                   TOPIC - A-1 Update
                   DATE - 18:25:18 8/03/99
                   FROM - Danbo
                   Wiliam Panzer is now offically A-1 defence attorney. It seems $3000.00 was the down payment on the retainer. It is
                   $10,000 total. The balance will be made in payments. If and when it goes to trail , it will cost about $20,000.00.
                   Mr. Panzer is excepting the donations and placing them in a trust fund for A-1's defence. Please keep all receipts of
                   the money orders so proof and tracking is possible. Mr. Panzer has already been receiving funds,

                   There's been talk on the net of sending the judges and prosecuters threatening letters. Please don't. This is terrorism
                   and LEO will be breathing down A-1's neck and will
                   be looking for who's responsible. If you have concerns or wish to show your support or outrage over this situation ,
                   please do so in cordial manner. We most certainly don't need them more in his shit than already evident.


                   TOPIC - ounce a week
                   DATE - 15:37:06 8/03/99
                   FROM - to blunt


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 14:10:04 8/03/99
                   FROM - BLUNT
                   How much do yall smoke a day?



                   TOPIC - sb
                   DATE - 12:36:21 8/03/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   yes sb thats good.


                   TOPIC - mycorrhizae
                   DATE - 12:06:45 8/03/99
                   FROM - hibe
                   I bought mycorrhizae from Bio-Organics(www.bio-organics.com) and have been dabbling with it for alittle while
                   now.Results seem to be inconclusive as to its benefits,but things like stress tolerance and healthier happier plants are
                   kinda hard to accurately measure.Yes, its true about the fact that its not supposed to be disturbed by tilling,and that it
                   may not benefit short-term crops.Its like a spider web,run your trowel through it and see how effective it is;)The action
                   of the mycorrhizae is that it grows its threads throughout the soil(explores hundreds of times more soil area),but tilling
                   breaks up the network that it builds,and disables it.So, in the case of table growers or outdoor people,it is possible to
                   do.Its a different way to manage your grow op, but could be very beneficial,environmentally friendly too.
                   Micorrhizae is abundant in the forest floor-it is the network that ties all the forest plants together ,to allocate nutrients to
                   each plant,as required. Nitrogen to grow a new fern will be provided through the myco-network,not just the immediate
                   It is recommended that you use way less fertilizer,and that it be provided through top-dress-not cultivation of the
                   soil.(like a forest huhh?-now you can imagine why clearcutting the woods is a bad idea-dead forest floor)
                   AF reports much more active phototropism and "unbelievable" drought tolerance(greenhouse/pots).I`ve only been able
                   to notice extreme health on the experiments Ive used it on.

                   It wasn`t expensive that i remember(bio-organics.com).The myco i got was a powder that you did a root dip of small
                   plants(rooted cuts),and planted.It must be applied to the roots.I`ve used it on Cabbage and lettuce also,and they got
                   HUGE.(i realize that is inconclusive,but info nonetheless)

                   GoodLuck hibe



                   TOPIC - Budm
                   DATE - 10:55:20 8/03/99
                   FROM - sb
                   Hey Bro, is this e-addy valid?

                   if not just drop me a line from your preferred addy



                   TOPIC - Budm
                   DATE - 10:54:19 8/03/99
                   FROM - sb
                   Hey Bro, is this e-addy valid?

                   if not just drop me a line from your preferred addy



                   TOPIC - strider
                   DATE - 08:28:30 8/03/99
                   FROM - old moldy
                   yes to all questions. been following the mycorhizae thread here and at other boards for a couple years now, and have
                   investigated these products somewhat.

                   caveat: these fungi may not thrive in a high-nutrient (i.e. "hot") soil or medium, such as herb-growers tend to use.
                   however, this is untested on my part. *a call to a manufacturer suggests this is not true, that reasonable fert levels will
                   not harm the organism in question (streptomycetes).

                   Pro-Mix (peat-based hort. mix containing peat, perl, verm, lime, wetting agent) is available pre-inoculated with a
                   proprietary mycorhizal culture (i think they call it "Myco-rise").
                   search for this info on the web; i know the manufacturer of pro-mix has a website...

                   *there are also "bacterial" (streptomycete) inoculants available; these are weird, sort of in between bacteria and fungi;
                   they form the symbiotic "mycellium" around the roots, though. product called "actinovate", haven't seen it in awhile but
                   it used to be available. (mfg by Natural Industries, p.o.box 692075-219, houston, tx 77269)

                   this would need to be incorporated into the cloning mix; used in a transplanting mix it wouldn't have enough time to get
                   well-enough established around the roots to do any good...

                   i believe it might have been vic who mentioned a product here called "myco-stop", for the prevention of pythium. this
                   product had many of the characteristics of these other inoculants.

                   whether or not you would see big results from using any of these products is anybody's guess. they probably would
                   improve plant health and hardiness, but they are fairly expensive and hard to obtain if you aren't in the horticulture
                   business. i imagine that a mix of compost and humus could give you similar results, but there you are dealing with
                   possible pathogens and parasites as well as the good bugs, so you 'd have to protect your clones with antifungals,
                   which would defeat the purpose. tough call!

                   if you do use an inoculant, post the info and results!

                   good harvests to ya


                   TOPIC - Strider
                   DATE - 23:02:57 8/02/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi All,
                   Strider- I found that post very intresting, I have wondered about the symbotic relationships between, fungi, bacteria, and
                   the roots, in the uptake of nutes/minerials processed by them. Please be sure to follow up with your results. TIA



                   TOPIC - Of Feds and Fungi
                   DATE - 22:47:06 8/02/99
                   FROM - Curious George
                   Sorry to hear about the bust.
                   We'll try to help out sometime soon. Posting the contact info. for the attorney was probably a good move. Once the
                   first lump sum is banked, most attorneys, and many witnesses, get paid on the installment plan.
                   As for that shuckster who wanted to collect his own donations, remember the old line that goes "To live outside the
                   law, you must be honest."

                   The seed donation thing is a nice touch. I'll make a contribution regardless of whether any beans are happening.

                   The link to the search warrant wouldn't open. Drat.

                   The Feds have their own political agenda, and they work with the State functionaries towards the same end. Dig it:
                   Serious Crime is at a Very low level. These guys need work! They are more than willing to make work for themselves to
                   justify their budget.

                   A-1 and his attorney should plan early for a press campaign by making contacts Now. Make lists of press release fax
                   numbers, news directors at TV stations, producers of morning drive time radio shows, and newspaper reporters. Do the
                   same for the Prop. people and other sympathetic groups so that Pickets can be assured to show up on-cue for the
                   cameras. Then, send a constant stream of information to the press on a weekly basis, no more than one page,
                   updating them on the progress of the case and the state of A-1 & his Family and constantly reminding them of the
                   Dates and Times of the various hearings, motions, and such. That way, they can schedule your story on their list of
                   regular events to be covered.

                   Oh yeah, ... that fungus post. Isn't that the same sort of stuff that is used in those "Phototron" gadgets?

                   just curious.



                   TOPIC - Mycorrhizae fungi
                   DATE - 21:49:18 8/02/99
                   FROM - Strider
                   Hey All..! While doing a little research on soils and plant nutrient uptake ect. I came across the Fungi world. Though
                   aware of the role bacteria ect, play in plant health/nutrition. I wasn't aware of the large roll fungi play in the processes of
                   plant uptake and health. Specificly Mycorrhizae fungi....... (means fungi-root).

                   Those classed as endomycorrhizae of the order Glomales are the ones that would benefit veg/herb growers.These little
                   critters form a symbiotic relationship at the root zone of thier host plant that aids in nutrient/mineral uptake. I'm sure
                   that many of you are aware of this although they are not discussed much on the various boards/grow sites. For those
                   who are not, a simple search on mycorrhizae will bring up more results than you can shake 2 sticks at.
                   Some of the benifits these fungi provide: 1. efectivly increases root nutrient/moisture zone.
                   2. Have the ability to process and make availible to the host, minerals/elements and nutrients that are locked up to the
                   host root system. especially phosorus uptake.
                   3. produce antibiotics

                   4. reduces stress, mycorrhizal association decreases drought stress, yet increases salt tolerance and root

                   The list goes on. but you get the idea. reasearch indicates these fungi do not like being disturbed and normal tillage
                   methods dramaticly deplete thier numbers. they also do not fair well durring composting. The heat generated destroys
                   the living mycorrhizae and damages thier spore. resulting in very low populations and increasing the time needed to
                   restore thier numbers to a benifical level. It takes 90 to 120 days of grow time to insure that spores have been
                   produced. This presents a problem when growing out 45 and 50 day strains but could be overcome by using live root
                   tissue/soil (mycellium).. from a donor pot and mixing this with the soil being used for the next round of clones. One
                   could also Use a mother plant over 120 days old as a spore donor. the method best suited to home growers is to dry
                   the selected pot throughly and store whole or in as large of pieces as possible in a sealed tub or plastic bag at 10 to 20
                   degrees C.
                   You can also reinoculate using commercial inoculants. These contain several strains of glomales. I think it would be
                   better after the first inoculation to reintroduce the resident strain or strains that have become dominant. As these are
                   the ones that have prospered and formed a symbiosis with our host herb and will be in a higher concentration. The
                   mycorrhizae may not contribute significantly to our plants durring the veg stage as thier numbers will be low. However
                   they could contribute significantly durring flowering. I have a desire to evolve a quality and ballenced soil mix that uses
                   organic slow release nutients and minerals and is as ideal to the needs of the herb as possible. I have been
                   composting and recharging my soil media. Just add plants, lights and water. these mycorrhizae seem a good tool to
                   that end.

                   Have any of you had any experience with these fungi ? Anyone currently using them now ? I'm going to give them a
                   shot. Use a control pot or 2 and check root mass/health,
                   yeild ect. to see if it is worth the effort to cultivate them. They also grow in hydro and areoponic conditions as these
                   methods are used commercially to produce the innoculant spores. I didn't study that end of things as those are not my
                   methods of choice.

                   Peace Strider.


                   TOPIC - Vic
                   DATE - 17:54:21 8/02/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Vic Thanks, been adding pearlite as I pot new gals, but im going to follow your advice and buy a PH test, and try to,
                   run through water, cause as you do, I dont have trys under every pot, so I also minamize "run through".


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 14:01:01 8/02/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   Vic got your mail and have replied. Could do with a reply soon, got to sleep now hope to hear from you tomorrow.

                   All the best Ot1


                   TOPIC - ncga/A1...and all
                   DATE - 13:44:57 8/02/99
                   FROM - del...
                   ncga, any thoughts you have on what we (ron and/or me) can do are more than welcome. i have been away for the
                   weekend and am still going through the horde of posts trying to catch up, so maybe you have something a little more
                   concrete regarding your "I personally think del and Ron Should use the full force to protect THE COMMUNITY"
                   comment and i have yet to get that to it. if not, please email your suggestions to me at cancom@yahoo.com or email

                   i have given mr. panzer the links to cann.com, weedbase and overgrow where his name and other personal info has
                   come up along with an invite to talk to us about whatever he can divulge concerning this case. at that time, he had only
                   talked with A1 and had yet to be retained but this was last week. hopefully things have changed by now...but like i said
                   above; i just got back and doing a lot of catch up right now.

                   if you have a list of posts that need immediate attention, send them. others contact me about offending posts and i
                   look at those more closely and resolve it as quickly as possible, when i can.

                   to all...my main puter is down again so i have limited capabilities until my tech gets here. please have patience until i
                   can get it fixed.
                   the "delete button" for cann.com still works tho...in case the posers are thinking of having a field day there...



                   TOPIC - Budm
                   DATE - 13:36:29 8/02/99
                   FROM - Vic High

                   FROM - Budm
                   DATE - 11:23:59 7/27/99

                   Vic- I know in the past you mentioned that there was a "build-up" of something or another after a couple of times
                   recycling the supersoil, af has been recycling since he started 9 mos ago, he originally started out with about, 20gals
                   of supersoil, and over the past 9months has built it up to about 80gals of mix, most times a recycled pot is mixed with
                   a equal amount of new ssoil mix, with 25+/- additional amendments, also over the past 9 months about 10 gals of
                   castings,have found there way into the overall amount of soil, along with a few pounds of gaunos,at times Bioblend 2
                   part organic ferts have been applied, and reciently EJ Catylast has been used every other watering, also used one pack
                   of Blossom Blood, anyhow, although its a very abstract picture of the auctual precise make up of the medium, it
                   sounds like a nice mix of diffrent amendments at diffrent ages,and degrees of decomposition, as of late hes been giving
                   some thought as to where to go from here, and what to be "on the lookout for" with a few diffrent genetics, that each
                   vary in vigor, and nute needs, hes decided to ask "Where would you go from here?"

                   From: Vic

                   Budm - complex question, hehe. My reasoning for for recycling the soil was from the concept that a farmer doesn't
                   throw out his fields each winter. He recycles them, hehe. One thing a farmer has that I didn't use is good flushing. One
                   poor part of my setup is inadaquat flushing between waterings and between crops. I wasn't setup to catch lots of water
                   coming out the pot bottoms, so I tried to minimize this. Therefore, even though I'm organic, I think I was suffering a salt
                   buildup. I think if you address this, this will serve you best in keeping your soil healthy. Other than that, keeping mental
                   tabs on your NPK ratios as you add ammendmants should keep you on track. I would also keep tabs on the pH
                   because as the lime is used up and organics break down, there will be a tendancy for the pH to drift downwards. There
                   will also be a tendancy for the soil to compact as more amendments are added, so adding sand and perlite from time
                   to time will help maintain a healthy consistancy. Hope this is in the right direction :)

                                                  Link: A1's legal defence updates


                   TOPIC - A-1 Donations...
                   DATE - 12:28:39 8/02/99
                   FROM - Perp

                   Vic, Dan, NC, nl420, et al,
                   You Guys ROCK!
                   Can't seem to Post @ C/E (Overgrow) where it counts, didn't think I could do shit for A-1, (bucks'r'tight) but the
                   AUCTION'S perfect, anyway I got basics for Auction;

                   #10 "Sensi" Skunk classic from Sly.
                   #10 M/K from sly.

                   ... an' how 'bout cuttings? If the breeder doesn't mind? I can offer to two bidders, (2) Cuts each of "Genius" and

                   "do I hear 50,50,50......55,55....Now 60...can I get 65, 65...........Ha!

                   Vic Bro, keep me posted on how to go forth and handle the details, I can't make sense of all the "Garble" and
                   static......glad to send some cuttings or seeds to HIGH bidders, Ha!
                   E-me @ perpetual_harvest@mindless.com

                   Pray for A-1 and family and all the P.O.W.s in this stupid war!


                   TOPIC - vic
                   DATE - 01:47:42 8/02/99
                   FROM - irish
                   you have mail.


                   TOPIC - Skunky Buds
                   DATE - 17:26:55 8/01/99
                   FROM - Budm
                   Hi all,
                   Skunky- af has a couple of Nevils Haze (F2s) going now they seem to ony as demanding as anthing else hes grown so
                   far. Ill update ya as they get into flower HTH.

                   Vic- When you get a spare moment, can you scroll down and read my post regaurding the super soil, the post was on
                   the 27th, just below you introduction post about A1s legal prolbem. Thanks;-))



                   TOPIC - Nevils Haze
                   DATE - 14:05:20 8/01/99
                   FROM - Skunkybuds
                   Nevils Haze is it hard to grow?


                   TOPIC - for any who are wondering
                   DATE - 06:21:04 8/01/99
                   FROM - 180
                   NCGA's post below refers to our friend and brother in the herb, A-1. he's being prosecuted in Cali for growing, despite
                   his med mj scrip, legally obtained under california law.

                   so some opportunists are soliciting donations in his name, but without any clear connection to A-1 or his defense
                   attorney, one must assume that they are rip-offs. now, despite NCGA's protestations, we ALL KNOW there are plenty
                   of scumbags out there in marijuana-land. i'm confident that some of you reading this are real d*ckheads, who would be
                   glad to take a piece out of my hide (and you can kiss my *ss, hehe). lets' not be so naive and idealistic, the world's not

                   protect yourselves and check things out before you give anyone your name or your money.


                   William G. Panzer, Atty.
                   370 Grand Ave, Suite 3
                   Oakland, CA 94610
                   attn: R.W.Defense fund

                   anyone giving another address for you to send to is a leech, tick, mosquito, vampire....


                   TOPIC -
                   DATE - 02:47:48 8/01/99
                   FROM - oldtimer1
                   nc have reposted you to the shark tank at overgrow as the guy posted there as well!!!!!

                   Budm you have mail!!


                   TOPIC - A1
                   DATE - 20:16:43 7/31/99
                   FROM - ncga

                   Our community is really FUCKED UP. This poster is a sick opportunist. Not only to take , No steal, money from the
                   community but to take it from someone in need, fighting to keep their family and personal freedom. Yes some of the
                   facts are right but a lot of extras to make it seam real and a tear jerker.. Maybe you feel pot is illegal fine it's a moral
                   judgment. But in NOBODIES BOOK IS STEALING OK


                   1 Directly to the Oakland office Addressed to William G Panzer

                   The above person has deliberately invaded our community and has decided that it is ok to take money that people
                   send in to truly help another person they might not have ever meet. Truly showing a side of the community other don't
                   think we have. Compassion and a since of justice.

                   I am truly sicken and Disgusted. Mike even you can look good compared to this SCUM. At least you were fairly up
                   front on what you Weren't going to do. This community did all it could to kept that type of character problem out. WELL
                   WHAT ARE WE DOING NOW ?


                   Vic High



                   Or me if It needs to be corrected.

                   ALL OTHER POST SHOULD BE IGNORED . I personally think del and Ron Should use the full force to protect THE
                   COMMUNITY. This is the worst attack on it ever.

                   Sorry to have to take them to do this but after donating to help and seeing this I had to take the time to post

                   The Above is in response to a message at can.com. So please all, if you see other information posted please correct
                   it. Can't let this happen to us. We may be Stoned but not Stupid

                   I hope dig into my collection Also to make some nice items avalible.



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