BC Growers Association


BCG Chat Archives


More October Archives


Time 14:35, 31 Oct 1998
From cookii

      eric - no, i really don't think so. what they did do, was to enable the plants to live
      in an extremely hostile environment that would normally not support cannabis
      plants. well, not without daily water anyway.

      i think the drainage had more to do with it all. and, being a headland, very little
      cloud cover ever stays there, so more sunshine too.

      the thickened husk i attribute to the hostile conditions, though perhaps you are
      onto something there - maybe the polymer added to that quality.

      i've used them in plenty of smaller tests too, and didn't notice any enhanced
      resin production ever.

      chicken manure seems to be the best food for boosting stickiness that i know of

Time 08:01, 31 Oct 1998

      I was thinkin last night about what you said cookii..

      about the plants that you grew in sand how they seemed to produce more resin
      and a better covering for the seeds...
      and you also said that you used those polymjers in the sand..

      Do you think the polymers increased the resin production.

Time 18:01, 30 Oct 1998
From cookii

      kenkeman - thanks man, that's nice to read...

      i have a particular interest in this variety, as it was one of the most important
      building blocks in my own
      strain [Red Stripe], which is my most favourite smoke ever. my larger type grows
      typically from 9 to 12 feet tall,
      with leaves that are somewhere between all it's ancestors. it has distinctive red
      stripes along the stems,
      these are very pronounced on most plants. flowering is usually 8 to 10 weeks,
      some plants go for 14, a few a bit less than 8 weeks. it depends on the site and
      exact time of planting..
      when smoked, the high is very quick, and long lasting [5 or 6 hours strongly
      stoned.] it has a very clear, intense high, that is good for music and doing
      things. the best plants give you a hot-flush effect when inhaled, and make your
      nose tingle as exhaled.. it's all good, hehe.
      oh, guano is mostly phosphorus.

Time 15:05, 30 Oct 1998
From Kenkeman

      I can tell you what little I know.The plants are grown in the archipelago of
      Las Perlas in the Pacific Ocean about 25 miles off the coast of
      Panama.There are approximately 15 to 20 islands of which 3 or 4 are

      The seeds are normal size with a dark hue to them.Most have stripes that
      run vertically and are cream colored.

      Two years ago I purchased about a pound of dried bud.It had lots of
      seeds but the high was still intense.I would throw the seeds out my window
      over a small garden outside my window.Several weeks afterward I noticed
      several plants growing.With only morning sun they grew at a rapid rate
      with a strong main truck and decent branching.It grew to about 5 feet in 3
      months with no attention whatsoever.My neighbors began to notice so I
      had to pull the plant.

      Personally I have never seen them on the islands but I have been told by my
      provider that they grow upwards of 12 feet and produce long slender buds.
            After they are dried they are bright golden with red hairs covering all the

      Terrain on the islands is quite luscious with many trees.My guy, an old
      timer, says that the best he has ever smoked came from a plot located near
      several huge rock formations which are inhabited by an abundance of shore
      birds. (gulls, pelicans, frigate birds)He claims to have used their
      excriments as fertilizers.These are almost pure potasium!

      That is pretty much what I can offer for now.I will do some research and
      keep you posted.

      It is important to note that we get weed here all the time but normally it is not top
      quality and lacks the true red traits.One must know who the provider and
      the quality of the product.Last years december harvest was supreme.
            No seeds and a smooth taste with a long cerebral high that turned
      lethargic after a while.Nice..

      Hope that fills you in.



Time 13:37, 30 Oct 1998
From cookii

      kenkeman - is it possible you could give us a very detailed description of the
      red, from seed to harvest? i personally would enjoy reading as many pages on
      this as could be written:DDo you know what the average npk++ of
      the areas used is? are there any particular notable quantities of
      anyparticular nutrient? [eg some regions have very high phosphorus
      levels naturally, some are very low, some might be rich in certain minerals, etc
      etc].hoping you can spare the time to manage something:))

Time 13:25, 30 Oct 1998
From cookii

      anon-if your going to have this plant outside, go for a five to ten gallon
      size planting bag, the bigger the better.
      be sure to add a little clay to the mixture. tying the plants down is drastically
      superior to cutting it back, aside from the hormonal pressure caused by altering
      the plants orientation seriously, cutting them adds a great deal of time to the
      overall cycle, and perhaps worst of all, should severe weather conditions come
      about [storms, gusting wind etc], then it's quite likely the thing will split into
      pieces, leaving you with a pile of sticks and some compost when there should
      have been a 1/2 lb of ganja or so:) as you have already cut the thing,
      reinforce the area with a little string [hemp fiber is good for this, but be sure to
      dry it before use, as it shrinks a bit].

Time 10:24, 30 Oct 1998
From anon

      pot=pfm pfm=positive frame of mind :)

Time 09:24, 30 Oct 1998
From anon

      hey vic you're on. i read your bio on the BC growers association page... it would
      be interesting to hear your critique of my methodology. also i'm curious as to the
      limits of 3 gallon grow bags. one sativa got moved outside. i had to top it at five
      feet because it was out growing it's camoflage. the twin tops have grown another
      foot. so the plant is about six feet tallin a three gallon grow bag outdoors.
      acapulco sativa. it must be getting near to the point where the 3 gallon grow
            bag is too small, but the thing just wont stop growing... :) any thoughts???

Time 09:17, 30 Oct 1998
From anon

      ... and for the sake of accuracy. use fish emulsions or chicken shit tea every
      third watering or so right into the first couple of weeks of the flowering period
      until the plants stop stretching. if you've grown before you know the effect. after
      switching the lights to 12/12 the plants will go into a growth spurt for a week or
      two before you achieve budset. use the fish emulsions or chicken manure tea
      right up to the point of budset (the point where you can distinguish bud
      formation). then switch to the high phosphorus formula. straight water for about
      the last week of budding. EXCELLENT results. NO EXOTIC MATERIALS

Time 09:04, 30 Oct 1998
From anon

      ....oops forgot to mention the small handfull of lime in my magic mix from a while
      back. you really don't need exotic stuff to achieve EXCELLENT results. growing
      weed is so fun :)-~

Time 06:41, 30 Oct 1998
From KenKeman (kenkeman@hotmail.com)

      Oldtimer!Good point concerning the june crop.The problem this
      year was that the june crop got sprayed and never made it.At least none
      of the true excelent red.We had lots of other weed but nothing to write
      home about.

      This discussion group seems much more mature and to the point.As a
      newbie and someone who is truly interested in breeding top quality ganj I find
      that it is incredibly informative.I will offer opinions when I can and as I learn

      Smoke and let live!

Time 05:49, 30 Oct 1998
From cookii

      another thing about growing on sand - due to the extreme conditions perhaps,
      the plants tend to be particularly resinous. this then helps stick the wind-blown
      ultra-fine sand [that gets into everything up there] well and truly through the
      entire harvest!two big problems with that - it wrecks screens,
      it introduces errors when weighing out.

Time 05:41, 30 Oct 1998
From cookii

      ot1- nah, it's straight up beach sand ! for real, it truly is beach, kinda light
      sandy-colored stuff... hehehe:D

      in the 30's depression, work gangs went up this peninsular i'm talking about,
      planting millions of radiata seedlings into what was then the reddish stuff you
      mention [probably].
      however, as the years go by, the beach is moved up and into the trees, so if you
      dig at a large size trunk, it goes down several metres! i digress....

      it's certainly got one great advantage growing up there, hardly anyone believes
      it's even possible! but you do need to get a large amount of water in there to
      start with, or spend a long time
      preparing the polymer in the field - it works best if you pre-soak it to max
      capacity before using with something like fish fert, chicken manure mixture.
      and wetted lime [stuck into lumps] helps.
      if anyone is thinking about using pine areas, be sure to keep the pine needles
      out of your garden, they take up a lot of nutrients somehow, and then hold onto
      them very firmly for a very long time!! to be avoided...

Time 01:35, 30 Oct 1998
From oldtimer1

      Hi KenKeMan welcome This is a good site but open to all !!! If you don't mind me
      askingis there a difference between the Christmas crop and the June one
      and if there is do you know why?? By the way thanks for your reply to my last
      question at canna kids.

      This site and its link BC growers are to my mind unique. They give unbiased info
      and good research. Vicís administration is good and you always know where you
      stand. Vic has said time and again he doesn't sell seed direct or do swaps. His
      interests are breeding and developing organic growing systems. I just don't know
      how he does it all and a full time job. When he had good results he made them
      available at a seed store at low cost so anyone could afford them and yet still he
      gets harassed by people for seed. Please give him space to do what he is best
      at!!! I donít want to see these sites drop off my screen they are some of the best
      up here and should be supported.

      cookii I think what to you are talking about is sand stone soil not beach sand.
      Sand stone soil is usually acid, high in potash, very low in phosphorus, nitrogen
      and chock full of silicates and of course very free draining. So what you are
      doing should give you dynamite puff its spot on. The only thing I would change
      are the type of polymers. By the way does the sand have a red tinge if to it?

      All the best Ot1

Time 15:54, 29 Oct 1998

      Ken ke....I have a friend that is experimenting with molds...there is a mold that
      grows on a certain fruit peel...you get it going and then introduce it to your pot....

      it intensifies the high and the taste....maybe the same thing..id like to talk to you
      about it....

      well not the same thing but maybe similiar

Time 15:34, 29 Oct 1998
From KenKeMan

      Received a post from 67ed linking me to this sight.Great info!If I can
      help with anything please tell me!Still haven't gotten the true Panama Red
      in yet although it is slated for mid december.I know of a hectare on one of
      the islands in the bay of Panama that that has a great batch..

      One interesting note.Last years batch was sprayed during its last two
      weeks with a local licor called Seco.Seco is made from fermented sugar
      cane (similar by a little to vodka).Outcome was difficult to
      determine.Taste was somewhat different and the high was energetic and
      up.Lasted for 4 to 6 hours off one joint spliff with a couple of friends...I can
      give more info if anyone is curious.Didn't leave an email addy since I'm
      kinda new and a little tentative.

      Saludos!Fumen Monte!
      el Kenkeman

Time 14:56, 29 Oct 1998
From 67ed

      I just invited him to come on over because I don't have his e-mail addy: hope no
      one minds.

Time 14:48, 29 Oct 1998

      ok i will volenteer to do the test with the polymers...im going to use
      agrodiamonds....i will give full details
      when i recieve them and throughout the trial

Time 13:58, 29 Oct 1998
From MIRAGE (mirage@lycosmail.com)

      67ed~ I would love to indulge in your good fortune in the PR seed as soon as
      you recieve them..

Time 13:09, 29 Oct 1998
From cookii

      polymers- hmmmm, i have to say that i have only tested one brand, it's called
      'crystal rain'. it made the plants smell odd, plasticy, but not unpleasant. the
      strangest thing is, the wierd smell stayed in the strain for a few generations! yes,
      after using it on one year,in gardens that had some seed plants , those seeds
      and their decendants had the same strange smell...so strange, i don't
      trust it at all. good for commercial gardens that can't be watered for logistical
      reasons, but that's about it. So, if any of you people are thinking of trying it
      indoors, forget it. As i said earlier, it was miraculous in sand [beach sand, no
      soil!!]. leave it at that, and you'll be satisfied

Time 12:13, 29 Oct 1998

      here is another post from the guy

      Thanks for your inquiry.

      AgroDiamonds containerizes the water & nutrients-releasing them only upon
      plant demand, or when the soil dries down.

      The result is the Diamonds actually benefit plants that do not like wet feet.

      Our professional growers in Florida and Oregon can attest to this-in fact, one
      of the reasons they use the Diamonds is because they open up the soil,
      allowing for excess water to drain away.There are a number of growers
      have written articles stating that because of the improvement in the structure
      of the soil, they have eliminated root diseases entirely.

      I hope I've answered your question.If you have any other questions,
      contact me at your convenience.

      Best Regards,
      Bill Rabold/AgroDiamonds

Time 11:49, 29 Oct 1998
From oldtimer1

      If agro diamonds are potassium based I don't understand the plastic taste I did
      some trials with fertile and the results were as sweet as a nut. The only thing I
      can think of is to much phosphorus which can make off tastes if there is an
      excess in the buds. Iím puzzled Ot1.

Time 08:07, 29 Oct 1998

      Vic.......dont pull the plug on this...
      just deal with the problem...

      Yes im in a farming area...i will check with some of the coops around here...
      but NONE of the nurseries or gardening supply house carry andy of those things

      it looks like i will be ordering alot
      maybe i will get luck though...

      YES...all organic...im putting it togethetr for next year...i want to have everything
      included in the soil before planting...maybe supplly a few tea feedings here and

      Vic..your mixture will be used outdoors
      they will be brought to full sexual maturaty ..transplanted at 1 foot tall in MAY and
      harvested when ready....

Time 07:47, 29 Oct 1998

      Hey everybody,
                   I went looking for potassium based polymers...found some

      e-mailed the guy to see what they were made of...here is his responce
      AgroDiamonds is a potassium based polymer.

      That's important for agriculture, as several studies were done on sodium based
      polymers, with the results being that sodium based polymers bind certain
      nutrients within the matrix of the cell walls.

      Another important aspect of AgroDiamonds is, it is the only polymer made
      exclusively for agriculture.

      Many of the so-called "agricultural polymers" are nothing more than diaper
      polymers or salvaged materials.There are alot of polymers on the market
      present alot of research or evidence to their abilities and longevity.
      Unfortunately, these polymers have never been tested and are simply copying
      the research that is available, either thru the internet or library.
      AgroDiamonds has documented research, which if you look closely, is
      similar to ours.Whenever we run into this situation with professional
      growers, we simply tell them to have these competing companies provide
      independent research on the univirsity's letterhead, which, not surprisingly
      never seems to materialize.

      Another fact to consider is, why aren't other polymers used in nursery
      production.They don't work and growers know this-thus their application in

      agriculture is limited to tree planting-if even that!

      What application are you considering using the Diamonds?

      Look forward to hearing from you again.

      Best Regards,
      Bill Rabold/AgroDiamonds

      you can find them at www.agrodiamonds.com
      they have a trial offer for 2 onces of it.....

Time 07:02, 29 Oct 1998
From jeremy

      vic, dont pull the plug man.
      maybe just put in bold print at the top of your page " I DONT
      maybe have altavista translate it into about 7 languages too eh?
      i had some bubbleberry seeds that i got from ME a couple years ago but i just
      grew a couple out and forced the girls for my own stash. if i had known it was
      gonna be so good i would have kept one for a mother. anyway, i was wanting to
      try the whole blueberry this time. i also got mangolian indica from marc and even
      though sag says they dont dealm with the guy, i'm telling ya for sure the seeds
      were legit. i still have that strain going.
      later stoners.......peace

Time -3:55, 29 Oct 1998
From cookii

      cool. i'd really appreciate that 67ed :D
      t h a n k s !!!

Time 20:55, 28 Oct 1998
From 67ed

      Cookii, If I can get these, I'll get you some too. He was interested in trading for
      some good, indoor seeds.

Time 20:01, 28 Oct 1998
From cookii

      yeah the thing with the PR is those darn leaves indeed..really does take a
      bit of working with it to get some nice flowers.
      ot1 - thanks for the tips on polymers, much appreciated, i'll try to find it.

Time 19:10, 28 Oct 1998
From Vic High

      Eric - you are probably just looking in the wrong places. Any farmers in your
      area? Most areas have farmers, so think like a farmer and not a pot grower.
      Then you'll find the old universal farming ingredients that make up my recipe.
      The only ingredients that would be tricky to get would be the worm castings, and
      it seems as if you have a handle on that. The soil could be called Sunshine #2,
      Fisson's #2, or promix (BX I believe). As a kid, I moved around alot, and lived in
      many small hick towns, but getting any of the ingredients of my soil recipe was
      never a problem.

      That recipe of mine has been fine tuned to keep all the nutes in the right
      proportion for each stage of plant growth when growing large plants where you
      veg for about 3-4 weeks. So far any modifications have resulted in reduced
      yields because the soil's nutes and breakdown rate are thrown out of wack. I've
      tried suppliments, but usually they result in much lower yields. Just shortening
      the veg period and flowering more smaller plants cut my yields in half. I suspect
      that this was because the bone meal hadn't had time to break down enough, and
      that the soil's nitrogen levels remained too high during flowering.

      I want to try the rock phosphate and I will as soon as I've finished fine tuning the
      addition of worm castings and kelp meal in place of the manure.

      jeremy - sorry if the response sounded touchy. It was meant for more than just
      you. I get several emails daily requesting seeds. This blows me away. I've never
      said that I'm in the seed business except on one page on my web page. And on
      that page I thought I made it clear that Heavan's Stairway was handling the
      sales. If you or anyone can elighten me on how to make it more clear, I'm all
      ears. The attention is kinda freaking me out and I'm considering pulling the plug.

Time 19:00, 28 Oct 1998
From 67ed

      Sorry, forgot to add my name to post. peace

Time 18:55, 28 Oct 1998
From anon

      for all of you organic freaks (like me) here's my two cents worth.

      6 parts redi-gro potting soil
      1 part vermiculite
      2 parts perlite
      1 part chicken manure

      every third watering or so use fish emulsions as directed. two or three times
      during veg. phase replace fish emulsions with chicken manure tea. three weeks
      into flowering high phosphorus fert. is substituted for fish emulsion. all of this is
      done in three gallon grow bags with plants that are lightly pruned and flowered
      after 30 days veg. the plants stay EXTREMELY healthy and look like the picts. in
      hightimes. each plant yields between1-1/2 ozs. of the smoothest sweetest
      potent smoke you can imagine. many people have commented on the incredible
      smoothness and bouquet. organic all the way folks.... and you don't need fancy
      exotic ingredients to get EXCELLENT results. peace all.

Time 18:49, 28 Oct 1998

      Eric-I've used super phosphate(0-18-0) many times with no prob, but I've burned
      plants to death with Natural Guard worm castings!
                                                     Mirage: I'm maybe getting
      some PR seeds in Jan. If it happens, I'll share a few. One problem I forsee with
      wild panamaian is the poor calyx to leaf ratio. Posi haze( mostly columbian x
      mexican)might be the same high, but with better bud yield and less leaves.
      Jeremy: You can get Vic's seeds from Richard.
                                                                      Ot1: Must
      have a newer, better bulb, but the nearest gro store is 250 miles away. Does
      anyone know if it's safe now to order thru the mail? Peace

Time 18:01, 28 Oct 1998
From cookii

      ooops, that was meant to say " the plant yielded three and a half pounds of
      manicured bud"

Time 17:58, 28 Oct 1998
From cookii

      mirage - hehe, sorry, but sadly i don't have the pure PR anymore... it was
      crossed in ten years ago, and in between i was wiped out [by the state and
      thieves who stole the backups of many years breeding.] i would LOVE to get it
      again, average yield is three to five pounds per plant!

      vic - of course, sand is the stuff on beaches for this discussions purposes :)
            i was thinking of crops i've done in pineforest planted on sandspits, it was
      tricky to get enough soil-like ingredients to the sites, but worked great once that
      was done. some of the gardens were done with just polymer and chicken shit
      mixed into the sand. even that worked !

      rock phosphate is fantastic stuff for adding into most soil mixes, you seem to get
      back almost the weight of it used in extra yeild if done right. i've never burnt
      anything with it, but it does have a lot of calcium in there with the phosphorus,
      and too much of that seems to stop resin production pretty much dead in it's
      tracks. that said, i've put about 3 kilos of it under a big plant,
      the plant yeilded three and a half kilos in manicured bud. [ten weeks]

Time 17:27, 28 Oct 1998
From justice

      ERIC- hey are you trying to stay strictly organic???
      if not i would say your plan sounds fine but it might be overkill...
      you don't want to give your girls too much at the beginning and have to maintain
      a high fert life cycle. i couldn't say for sure what would be overkill or not enough
      but if you can find some time release pellets they might work well for ya.
      as for me, well, lets see...
      i take a bale of sunshine mix #2, mix in a large bag of worm castings, some
      alfalfa meal (from some company called something like sunshine harvest, really
      colorful bag) and a few bags of their flower power. i sometimes use a bunck of
      bat guano, which is expensive but if you can spare the twenty bucks it is worth
      it's weight in gold.
      anybody else got some suggestions...?

Time 14:41, 28 Oct 1998
From jeremy

      sorry vic, didnt realize it was a touchy issue (seeds)
      does anyone know of any good homemade ebb and flow setups?
      i have the resevoir, pump and tubing taken care of but what is the best way to
      secure the plant to the system itself? they dont make the 2 litre bottles with the
      hard plastic cup on the bottom anymore. and what method of delivery? drip
      lines? how about recovery?

Time 13:24, 28 Oct 1998

      Man..i like it here....you guys are very helpful...
      well then I think that If i take a real good potting soil maybe like shultz
      profeesional mix
      add as many worm castings and Rock phoshate and Fertile polymors as i want
      as long as the texture and drainage are stilll good
      but looks like that would be all you would need to add to a potting soil...
      maybe feed them once a month..or just as they need it with an organic tea
      made mainly from chicken shit during veg growth.......
      but i will have to find something different for the flowering stage ..the chicken shit
      is too much N
      well....if anyone has a comment on this..i would appreciate you taking the time to
      type it out.....
      maybe a good source to order this stuff from..they dont have it here

      see..I was taught to put worms in the soil at my patches a long time ago..but i
      always thought it was just for the tunnels they dug..I had NO idea that their crap
      was what was doing the trick

      Thats why i say this and all sites like it are great for the spread of this
      knowledge...Thanks guys

Time 11:13, 28 Oct 1998
From oldtimer1

      cookii & back breaker. Try and find a polymer called Fertile unlike most others
      which are based on sodium and leave residues of sodium it is based on
      potassium. Itholds 40% more water than the sodium ones and leaves no
      nasty residues it is completely inert and wont make your puff taste of plastic.

      ERICfine ground rock phosphate does not burn as a tip it works better in
      slightly acid soil ph 6 to 6.5. I've farmed worms for over 30 years plants could go
      straight into it but its to rich really and better balanced with other things.

      67ed son t agroís have added blue light but don't produce results as good as
      the ordinary son t plus lamp both will work well with a 400 w sodium ballast, yes it
      has a yellow light but not like the old sodiums.
      All the best Ot1.

Time 08:45, 28 Oct 1998

      I think i have smoked some bud with that plastic flavor.....smelt like burning
      plastic.....VERY strong...i will never forget it..

      cookii>>> was it VERY strong in the smell..and does anyone know why it would
      effect the smell of the bud?????

      Rock phosphate
      worm castings
      has anyone ever burned their plants with either of these?

      Mirage>>>>some one on the breeding board at Cannabis com mention Panama
      and i believ it was coming straight from the country of orgin...you might want to
      go check it out.....I think 67ED has got some on the way.

      Vic>>>>>Is the soil mix you have listed ...is it a poting soil and then you add your
      other ingredints to it...the reason i ask is because 90% of the ingredints
      arent sold ANYWHERE around here,,,

      I would like to try taking a GREAT poting soil and add wormcastings. rock
      phosphate....vermiculite and some agrodiamonds...but something needs to be
      added during flowering

Time -3:23, 28 Oct 1998
From MIRAGE (mirage@lycosmail.com)

      Cookii ~You mentioned on another HempBC Discussion page about some
      "Panama Red" you had .... I have searched for this one for so long ! Can you
      please contact me with your email etc ...
      These Sativa's are so few , i'd love to have them again ..

      Swap something for this beauty ?

Time 19:49, 27 Oct 1998
From Vic High

      Mota - I'll be checking my hotmail next, but I have what I hope is good news for
      you. Will explain later.

      jeremy - I don't sell seeds. I have no interest in becoming a seed dealer. Either
      read the directions at my webpage, or buy seeds from Heavan's Stairway,
      laughing moon, freedies, weedseed, or any other seedbank who is in the
      business of selling seeds. Thanks.

      cookie - so many ideas of what sand is, haha. When I think of sand, I think of
      beach sand (minus the salt of course). Your right, rock phosphate is the shit!
      Breeder steve uses it in his secret mix that he sells for big bucks at the grow
      stores in Vancouver. I actually have a local recipe that that incorporates it. I'll
      see if I can add it to the webpage sometime.

Time 19:23, 27 Oct 1998
From anon

      hey everyone...whenever you're up around montreal, look me up. i can show ya
      some cool sights and fun stuff to do.

Time 18:36, 27 Oct 1998
From cookii

      backbreaker -agrodiamonds - yeah, i've used that stuff, it's ok, it works...
      makes yr herb smell/taste like some wierd plastic tho !but, you can mix it
      up 50/50 with sand [ that is once its been soaked to full absorbancy first with fish
      fertizer, for example]i've had successful crops with it, no need to ever
      water , just go back once to check the installation took, once again to pull males,
      again to check flowering/feeding, and then harvest... no water needed at all...
            makes a plastic flavour not too bad a price to pay. and, if your crop is very
      fragrant, it will mask the strange smell mostly anyways..:)still, not the
      stuff for purists....

      Vic-it would seem that sand would be locked up, but maybe the action of
      the soils activity might release some?

      The best sand to use, if your going to add it in specially, would be what is called
      'rock phosphate', the stuff thats used as raw material for phosphate plants...
            i've used this many times, and swear by it!!just put a large cup per
      plant into your mixture, and laugh as it delivers massive ammounts of
      non-burning phosphate to the plants just what they need it most. top dress
      halfway through flower cycle with a similar amount for best results. if you mix a bit
      of unsweetened compost with it, the acids present quickly go to work releasing
      the stuff for the plants. try it!

Time 16:11, 27 Oct 1998
From Mota

      Did you get my e-mail?


Time 14:55, 27 Oct 1998
From jeremy

      hello all
      vic, i'd like to get some blueberry seeds
      i'd gladly send you mere money in exchange
      let me know please

Time 00:46, 27 Oct 1998
From 67ed

      Ot1-I'm smoking a different bud off the Skunk, and it's better than the bud the
      other night. They're still wet, and I have to dry them in the microwave before
      smoking. Is the son t plus agroa mostly red-orange light with a little blue in
      the spectrum? Will it work with a 400 hps ballast? I don't believe that indoor is as
      good as outdoor. all these strains are long acclimatized to indoor conditions that
      don't favor super thc producing strains. I don't think Neville should have
      introduced Ruderalis into the gene pool of drug strains. I'm sorry about your
      condition, maybe you'll find something that helps someday. I'm really too high to
      go on composing and typing this tonight. Peace, 67ed

Time 19:02, 26 Oct 1998
From RC

      David ~ Nevil now works with Greenhouse, so you can expect to see some of his
      latest work under their flag.

Time 16:43, 26 Oct 1998
From david

      Thanks for the info eric,does nevil have a web page or something i could order
      seeds from him?

Time 14:06, 26 Oct 1998
From oldtimer1

      67edOrdinary glass blocks 98% + uv or alters its spectrum while plastic
      lets most through. Didn't see the high times article but Wernard is a real trooper
      and one only breeders in Holland who seemed aware that without the uv content
      in lighting that stocks would deteriorate over time. Fortunately a lot of the current
      American breeders use halides as at least part of there lighting if not all I
      personally use a mix. As far as son t agroís and son nav t plantersare
      concerned we have found them to be inferior to the son t plus type lamps For
      both yield, quality and quantity. Grow mag Have come up with similar results over
      several trials using a number of different light loving plants. The best sodium
      lamps in our own tests were made by Osram nav t plus 400 w and 600 w
      The besthalide we tried was HQIT clear made by venture. We have yet to
      try the halide type Agro sun as it is not yet available in the UK but growers all
      over the states are giving it good reviews. By the way the 400 w HQIT halide will
      run with no prob in a 400 w sodium fitting but not HPIT types. I went out today for
      the first time and what for ? To set my garlic for next year. We use between 2
      and 3 bulbs a week and eat it because we like it!!! I hardly ever used to get
      colds or flu then I got glandular fever now if its around it comes to me, vit c, zinc,
      homeopathy, acupuncture don't seem to do a thing my doc says it damaged my
      immune system.
      ERICI think Nevill was experimenting with combining ruderalis in fact I think
      he was the first to do so. I could be wrong but I think he dropped it because of
      the problems ie not being able to regenerate?
      Hope this helps Ot1

Time 13:10, 26 Oct 1998

      David>> he is still alive and he has a seedbank...not much to offer..but i bet what
      he has is very good..but someone here knows for sure....i would like to know how
      he is coming along with that strain.....when i find anything out i will post it here.....

Time 13:03, 26 Oct 1998
From david

      What happened to nevil?
      Is he alive? Does he still breed and sell?
      I was reading also about nevils outdoor 2 foot tall mexicans that automatically
      Thanx for any info on this subject

Time 11:59, 26 Oct 1998
From justice

      hey guys
      i just read something in hightimes last night... this guy was talking about
      interrupting the light cycle for better yields. what he does is after about (i think) 4
      weeks of flowering he sends his girls back into 48 hours of constant light, then
      right back into the flowering 12/12 again. he reports that this delays harvest by
      about a week but he gets 20-25% more dry bud... i dunno?
      have you guys tried or heard of this? would this maybe lead to hermaphrodites?

      Pacific Grower: man i grew some mites that a friend from quadra island set me
      up with and man it was deadly! big bombs man they looked like oversized
      zucchinis i loved them but they were probably inbred for a many years in this one
      area, not by some whacked out br$$d$r, know what i'm sayin'?

Time 10:22, 26 Oct 1998

      Mike>>>> thabnks for your reply...i guess i will have to try both of them to see
      whos is better...

      Aeric77>>>.......man me and you gotta talk...Im tring to follow these rulesd man...
      but damn....im in the same position i was when i cam on line...I have genetics....if
      you have some of the things i want....hell man...e-mail me and let me know....we
      can work something out..( that goes for any of you guys with the right
      genetics....I want to swap or buy ...somethin...Now i have been hinted to on more
      occasion about becoming part of "the circle"
      ....well shit..come on lets get going....im wastin away .....So come on man..if you
      know where i can find the best....lets do it......

      Pacfic grower.....i understand where you are coming from....even the lowest
      potence is still better than the commercial here....I have search every catalog i
      can find....but still havent found that perfect guerilla plant yet....Neville said he
      was working on the perfect one.....it gets no taller than 2 feet...shaped like a
      tree/srub...small wide leaves...VERY hardy...and ready to harvest middle of
      this is the perfect...even though its outside when the Helicopters or up...it is
      ending its cycle to harvest...so most of the larger fan leaves will have fallen off if
      not they can be stipped...
      He had the right idea...i dont know why he hasnt followed through....maybe with
      the growers we have on this board we can all put our heads together and come
      up with the correct crosses to make the strain...

      Aeric77...you know how to reach me..

Time 16:47, 25 Oct 1998
From Vic High


anon 15:41 - got any books on the subject to recommend or to send my way?
Any teachings? Any insight?

OT1 - hope your feeling better soon. Thanks for the info. I'll have to remeber
that next time i get a boy that shoots blanks. In the past, I've always deleted them
from the gene pool.

Bill Clinton - In traditional horticultural and farmer circles, I always believed sand
to be just plain old sand. It is usually used to improve drainage in peat and clay
based soils in outdoor gardens. It also helped break up the clay based soil. I'm
not sure what greensand is, but I always thought it was plant based. Kelp meal
seemed like a better source of micronutrients, so I've never played with

Cali - o:Mike - so you got me wondering. Are the DP and HF
cali-othe same genetics due to the close association? Or is the DP version
from a DP line, and the HF version from the Positronics line? Just trying to
clarify. Eric - let me know what you find out and any other sources you come

Aeric77 - LMAO!!

Pacific Grower - I've always heard that mitey mite is a ruderalis hybrid. From a
breeder's and indoor grower's perspective, I agree with OT1 and say to ditch it,
or at least, don't let it breed. However, to be fair, I know a couple outdoor
growers who have been treated very well ($$) by a few certain mitey mite
crosses. The bud is quite good and is definately potent. I don't know the actual
name of the hybrids or the pedigree, but the names chemo and burmese pop up
alot in outdoor circles.

Time 15:11, 25 Oct 1998
From 67ed

Olt1-You should've taken a flu vaccination. Ever since I started eating raw garlic
8 years ago, I've only had two very mild colds(actually pleasant)-put about 8-12
cloves in some tomato soup-it's miraculous! I've got a another skunk plant that's
almost done, and I think it will be better(has more indica traits) Now the power
plant I grew, and which finished dead ripe here Sept. 24 was considerably better.
I remember reading in a High Times interview with Wernard several years ago,
that He said plants grown under plastic were much more potent than grown
under glass, but it seems to me the plastic would block out more uv rays. If I
have the time, I'll make a better place for the light with in & out fans and co2
enhancment. Also, I'll purchase a sun t agro bulb for it. I've got Vic's blueberry
and Niagara seeds waiting. I've also rejuvenated the power plant female slowly,
and will take clones this winter for next year's outdoor. I think I'll need to cross bb
with Niagara to get it to finish in time here. This thai is something else-got a seed
harvest 2 weeks ago, but it's put out new white hairs so that now I've got a pure
sinsemilla with mostly white hairs for a second harvest. The seeded harvest
wasn't bad smoke considering it only flowered for 7 weeks. Try the garlic. Peace
& Prosperity, 67ed

Time 13:56, 25 Oct 1998
From oldtimer1

pie it is of the bottom so in case you didn't see it. My wife said you would like this
Horticulture :-
You can take a whore to culture, but you cant make her think.

Time 13:32, 25 Oct 1998
From oldtimer1

Pie look further down the page after servicing two lots of ladies on the third
regen my blueberry male No 7 went dry fish fert and light has been its viagra and
its dusting nicely and Iím watching his technique. Did you catch the bit about
Horticulture from my misses Lol. The seeds no prob whenever what do you think
of the project like a proper archive. all the best Ot1

Time 10:46, 25 Oct 1998
From pie

oops, the post below was refering to Cali-O. puff puff puff.

OT1>>> the seeds are yours. working on getting the second batch so i can send
them all to you in one fell swoop.

Time 10:42, 25 Oct 1998
From pie

I have smoked some of bud from these cuttings and I find the enjoyment factor to
be quite high even though the sample i had had not been cleared prorperly!

A dry toke generates a fresh orange juice taste and the high is generally an up
high that is longlasting and non-dibilitating.

Reminds me a bit of Columbian Gold Bud with an orange taste and a very nice
smell. Hopefully, my next taste of this herb will be a better cleared sample or

Time 10:35, 25 Oct 1998
From pie

Mike aka blueberryboy>>> is ot1's post really true ...

"Vic after a feed of fish fert and continuous light for 3 days blue berry boy is
shedding like a good one and I've introduced him to some nice ladies."

I wondered where blueberry boy was off to. I hope he is doing his er ah
'shedding' in private! 3 days of continuous light and fish ferts huh?

Time 10:10, 25 Oct 1998
From aeric77

at this time there are no seeds available of the old strain Cali O, just
cuttings and they are difficult to secure....(closely held)....however there are
some seeds from a cubing project that may be come available soon, and some
breeders are using the pure strain to create their own unique crosses which also
may become available....as soon as you learn to ignore the gnats with no

Time 07:53, 25 Oct 1998
From Mike

sorry i didnt mean to offend....i was refering to marc being the first coffe shop
owner in canada and Wernard the firsf in holland. i was referring only to the
coffee shops.Wernard is highly respected in grow circles.

Time 06:56, 25 Oct 1998
From pacific grow

bill clinton & ot1... thanks for the advice. are the mighty mites at least a medium
potency strain?? they are very convenient... and the commercial around here
pretty much sucks. hey bb are you on here man??

Time 03:54, 25 Oct 1998
From Mike

Eric>> I have smoked Cali O several times in A'dam>>>it is a decent high but a
long-lasting foul taste in the back of your throat.
I have smoked cali o from the states and it is a potent high with a nice sweet
taste.....my advice to you would be to find a reputable US grower and get your
seeds from there.There are a couple who post on this board who may be
able to help you out....dutch genetics are very good and very consistent but in
this instance i would say the U.S. growers have a better product.

ime 03:49, 25 Oct 1998
From Mike

dutch Passion is owned by Henk....Homegrown fantaseeds is owned by Henks
ex- wife>>>>The Duch Passion shop is extremely difficult to find....even with the
address.The homegrown fantaseeds shop and coffee shop are very
easy.....therefore the HF shops carry Dutch Passion strains and display them
more prominently than their own.

When positronics went bust a couple of years ago Dutch Passion secured the
rights....HF was born!In order to market both companies they had to be
There is also a player called Martijn from CSBA who is normally to be found in
the HF coffeeshop>>>Martijn was a key worker at positronics and is a close
friend of Wernard....the original owner.Wernard was the first to open a
coffee shop in Holland...he spent a few spells in prison for his beliefs.....the Marc
Emery of Amsterdam????

Time 03:02, 25 Oct 1998
From oldtimer1

Hi 67ed Iím really sorry that Sk 1 are not up to par. The first thing that comes to
mind is that the strain has deteriorated. This is kind of what I was saying about
the way the Dutch are replicatingtheir seed stocks. The Uk has a well
documented history about the adaption of the hemp plant In the last century and
before we had a need for hemp for sails and rope for our navy and merchant
shipping. At some point the Admiralty decided to move production of hemp from
the east of England to the middle east [I think its called the Lebanon now] to
save on production costs .The original stock were tall 4 m mainly non
branching long fibre types within 5 years the stock was useless for sail making.
Had shortened to a 2 m shorter branched type and starting to produce resin with
thc. They had to keep a seed stock farm going here and replace the seed used
very other year to get the best quality fibre. Maybe grow an earlier var next
year, Make sure the sodium bulb is a son t plus type.I have only just
started working on an outdoor type so I'm sorry cant help you at the mo with a
variety.A friend is getting pretty good results 53 deg north with early pearl.
Iíve tried some of his bud and its not bad with a nice balance between sat
and indica. I think you said you were less than 40 deg north so EP grown there
should be a killer. Why don't you use your closet and do a winter grow and
select the best to mum up then make cuttings to grow out in the spring after the
risk of frost is over. This would give them the full summer to express their full
potential what do you think?

ERIC I think that DP and Homegrown belong to the same family or are very close
and hold common stock lines.

pacific grow.Unless you live way north and really need a fast plantI
would avoid it like the plague. Ruderalis is the one cannabis var that has this
gene and once in a plant line its there forever and does not necessarily shows in
every generation its a night mare for breeders who develop the plant for future
growers. Some havedestroyed several years worth of breeding when the
gene became dominant during cubing.
All the best Ot1.

Time 20:51, 24 Oct 1998
From Bill Clinton (madkayaker@hotmail.com)

Pacific Grower - I'm certain I've heard more than once that mightymite does have
ruderalis in it. I don't remember if it's the result of a direct cross(F!) or not

OT1, Vic, Cook - I always thought adding sand to the soil meant "Green Sand",
which actually adds nutrients to the soil. Am I missing something althogether? I
tried it once with no noticeable improvement. It's expensive so I quit using it. I
wonder if I was missing the point altogether.

Eric - glad to see ya back dude.E-mail me (click on link above)

Time 19:08, 24 Oct 1998
From 67ed

I'm sitting here smoking some of this Sk#1 I just grew, and I'm not that
happy with the potency. Oh it's definately good weed, but it's far from kick-ass.
There's something about my outdoor growing that causes them not to reach
their full potential, but I don't know what it could be. It may be that I'm at a low
altitude. It spent about a total of 35 hours indoors under an hps on the cold
mornings, but that might be enough to ruin them considering my set-up. I've got
a 400W with the ballast attached directly to the light fixture that i got from the
Power & Light Co. nine years ago for $110 including bulb. i've had the damn
thing hoisted up in my closet with nothing else except a big rotating fan.
Hopefully, I'll learn enough here and other places to make next year's outdoor
more of a success. Peace

Time 18:13, 24 Oct 1998
From pacific grow

vic, ot1 and eric.... your discussion has lead me to an interesting dilemma.
I've got two mighty mite males that I've moved out of the garden. My plan is to
selectively pollinate my ladies for seeds. the mighty mites are auto flowering.... is
this because they have ruderalis in their genes??? would it be unwise to cross
the mighty mite with silver pearl and northern lights??? marc e's description of
he mighty mite is that they are a himalayan strain. the ruderalis question
bothers me though... does any one here have any ideas on this ??? this is my
first shot at growing mighty mites... their small size and "set 'em and forget 'em
until 100 days later" profile are perfect for my ultra stealth outdoor guerilla
necessities. any input???

Time 13:35, 24 Oct 1998
From Norm

Just dropped in to say "Hi" to Vic High.

Time 13:28, 24 Oct 1998

Who knows which is better..
Im going to order CALIFORNIA ORANGE
Dutch passion.......$90
Home grown fantaseeds...$60

now which one has the best strain...the $30 difference doesnt bother me....I want
the one that is the orangest and smells the most like orange....

Thanks for your help guys

Time 12:44, 24 Oct 1998
From oldtimer1

Silicon has to be in the form of silicateís to be used by plants. Silicateís are the
result of a reaction between silicon various metals and oxygen are non soluble
but can be absorbed by plants, The more metals and elements involved in the
reaction the richer the silicates will be. Vic I don't think sands would be much
good unless from an old sea bed in which case there may be a lot of silicates
with the sand.

get a lot of samples to test from a local grow shop before they stock them. A
couple of years ago I tried Pyro CLAY 3 tm from Canada is this what you are
talking about?
Any how I tried it as recommended in half a growroom with a mix of vars mixing it
in our organic soil mix before planting up and balancing up the rest of the
growroom with the same mix of plants in our standard soil mix. We could find no
difference in high, weight,resin production or growth pattern. So the shop
doesn't stock it, But now on reflection our soil mix is very rich and has 15 to 20%
Ketteringloam as part of the mix from the best pasture in England + worm
compost and a high nutrient composted base fertiliser so there may have been
an abundantsof silicates already in it and it would have had every trace
element already in it. So I think it would be worth trying an experiment with
someone using Hydro, maybe a nutrient film system with rockwool blocks and
adding some to the top of half of the blocks and seeing what happens.

stix I think that vars like Nevil NL did well under low light conditions Skunk no 1
was much looser I think because it had a lot more sat in it but crossed with the
NL it made a killer combo that did well under my mercuries. I regrew some Sk 1 a
few years ago with a sodium halide combo and the buds were way tighter and
the yields were over double. To grow Thai and haze with low lightjust didn't
work I used to grow them outside in pots artificially cutting the light hours from
Aug and finishing them indoors from mid Sep on.It was a lot of work but
hey never went hermy. If you tried doing it indoors right though they always went
100% hermy. I think a lot of the problem with seeds from the dam is that
they have inbred way to much looking for to much uniformity. Also my pet theory
they use just sodiums. NL, Big Bud and all the great indoor American strains
were bred indoors for generations. To develop them they used halides which in
turn give off uv a,b,c. Potency occurring in natural strains of drug cannabis is
highest where the natural uv intensity is the highest. I remember a conversation
with Wernard where he said that when identical plants were grown under glass
and plastic that the ones under the plastic were way stronger.

Vic after a feed of fish fert and continuous light for 3 days blue berry boy is
shedding like a good one and I've introduced him to some nice ladies.
ERIC someone gave me some Swiss myst seeds and they have ruderalis in.
What a painthey auto flower, they wont regenerate, ie clones wont grow.
Worst of all they didn't get me high personally I would forget it. Years ago I used
to grow Californian orange they were pretty good about half the plants smelt like
an orange being peeled the rest a bit like Afgani both had similar highs and were
pretty strong.
Hope this helps Ot1.

Time 09:53, 24 Oct 1998
From Vic High

Thanks DarkStar and all.

Cookii - say, I've been following a few of the soil science courses online, but
have been having trouble getting some real 'meat and potatoe info'. So you
don't feel that the silicone in the sand would be locked up? I've always
considered sand to be an inert material that only helped in drainage so have
never used it. Maybe adding a cup or two to each batch of soil would be a good
idea? There has been much discussion about pyroclay as a source of silicone,

Eric, I've never tried either but would recomend that you stay away from the
ruderalis. My experience with ruderalis is that you get low potency leafy buds. It's
only attractive attribute is it's autoflowering. And this can be a problem for those
that want to keep clone mothers.

Time 09:05, 24 Oct 1998

hey.....have you guys had any of sensi
california indica.....how did it taste

and what about Rudelius from Sensi
how did it taste

Time 07:38, 24 Oct 1998
From back breaker

Hey cookii,
have you ever tried those agrodiamonds...that powder that retains
200 times its weight in water...i ran a test this summer on some potted outdoors
plants....you can tell the stuff keeps the water.....

but im a little worried about root rot..they claim that it will not cause it but i would
like to know if anyone has tried them on their crops yet

any comments???

Time 20:42, 23 Oct 1998
From cookii

hehehe... silica huh :)yeah i'm sure it's
important- sand is for certain helpful in yr mixture, sand is mostly silica...

As far as i know, there are 93 nutrients required by all plants to achieve their
genetic potential, in specific ratios per
plant.... That said, i've never come across the list, but it was an italian
operation that made announcements
world-wide about this 93 nutrients, about 5 or 6 years ago they made some
breakthroughs... i'll do some homework on this and post it at a later

When i've grown in sand, any seeded
plants i made had extremely good resin
content [for being fully seeded that is] and the actual seeds seemed to have a
second, extra coating on them, and a very very tough membrane containing the
business inside.. many of these needed help to break free of this...

Time 20:10, 23 Oct 1998
From aeric77

RE: Sensi's Durban......I grew it both indoors and outdoors this year and altho
the yield was small it was very popular around here.....everyone who got to try it
really liked it......and at both sites it was only allowed to flower for 8 weeks......a
very diverse world we live in......

Time 10:24, 23 Oct 1998
From stix

Vic>>Yep, when I set up my indoor room 13 or so years ago, I used 20w sq/ft
which was state of the art at that time. The thing is, I had some great
results with strains from both The Seed Bank and SSSC with these low light
levels so long as I rotated the outer plants for more light as you said. Id hate to
try to get by with that little light with todays plants tho.
Pie>>Good to see you bak, and wanna agree with your comment bout how Vic
handles the board. Its really a nice place to stop by for a few minutes.
Cooki>>Welcome and looking forward to your input.

Time 10:23, 23 Oct 1998
From Mota

Regarding the Durban, I grew two seeds, both were female.One was short,
indica growth characteristics and one was tall, sativa type.The short one
had the best smell and taste, the tall one had the best look, purple/green at
harvest.The high from both was the same.I cross bred both
Durbans with my White Widow male, only made about 20 seed on each plant.
The Durban needs time to mature, at least 9-10 weeks, being a sativa it
really never stops flowering, just slows down.Hope this sheds some light,
let me know if you have any other questions.I grew it both indoors and out.

Time 09:53, 23 Oct 1998
From Vic High

DarkStar - yep I'm from there. Was born there, or so i was told. You from those

Hey Mota - thanks for the description. So did yours look like a sativa? I've been
in contact with others that have grown the sensi version and said it was alright,
but not amongst the best, and definately not what they expected. No personal
experience with it though, so maybe it was unfair of me to group it together with
the durban version. I hope to eventually grow the Sensi version for no other
reason than to compare with the african version and DP version. Make any

Cookii - I have a discussion going with friends about the importance of silicone.
got any thought?

Time 08:54, 23 Oct 1998
From pie

vic >>> hope things are going well for you. You are doing a great job at handling
this board diplomatically, btw.

cookii >>> good to see you. hope to learn some growing tricks from you in the
near future!

Dark Star >>> you sure do have a talent for the music don't you. hell, i wish i
could hear the words let alone remember them all ( i wear hearing aids in both
ears ). As far as censorship, I think most of us hate to be censored. But, as with
all things, there are boundaries that most people respect. I do not think that Vic
has anything against you or anyone else for that matter. He is just politely
reminding ALL of US to leave the flames and the chatting for another room.

Time 08:33, 23 Oct 1998
From Mota

I grew Sensi's Durban this year and it has the anise flavor (dry toke) and it is
very sweet/fruity smelling.You get a relaxed body high with a mild mind
high.It is worthy grow for personal stash, but definety not for commerical
purposes, low yield.Many of my friends who are indica smokers liked the
high of the Durban. They said they could still function, but felt high.

Time -2:45, 23 Oct 1998
From Vic High

Chunk - i grew Dutch Passion's version. It's not worth paying for.From
what I hear, the sensi isn't much better. That is if your looking for a pure sativa
with an anise flavour. My plants looked like tall indicas.

I'm not saying that the plants were absolute crap, just that they were not worth
the $11 a seed I paid. Paying $28.50 per blueberry seeds had more value. They
were good enough and uniform enough that I've selected the non hermie plants
to create backup seed before I dump the lot.

I think the wild bank in Africa would be the best source. With any luck, I'll have
some coming in the mail any day. I saw some pics of traditional durban leaves at
lyceum. Dutch Passion's were not close.

Time 20:46, 22 Oct 1998
From chunk

wich durban poison do you grow?
wich seed bank has the best durban?
thanx alot

Time 19:08, 22 Oct 1998
From Vic High

welcome cookii - what's the story behind your handle?

Best worm castings I've found in the lower BC area is:

Wonder Worm - Earth Worm Castings - Soil Improver
by: Wonder Worm Products Ltd. Mission, BC, V2V 4H9

In Victoria, they can be found at a few nurseries and are $12.99 at Cannor
Nurseries, next to commonwealth Pool. These are pure worm castings without
any filler such as bark or what have ya.

Worst source for worm castings I've found so far is that crap at Home Depot that
sells for something like $6. Not even worth $1. There is so much filler in it that
you can't even see any castings.

Time 14:54, 22 Oct 1998

cool....outdoors....coooool...glad to meet you man.....we have got to talk ....hang
around ....

Time 13:56, 22 Oct 1998
From cookii

hi ! I'm cookii, i've been growing for 23
years so far [mostly outdoor, in gardens and guerilla style. I know hydro systems
under lights too.]
Breeding has always been a prime concern of mine, and i've had quite a bit of
success with it, as well as some
notable failures!!!
I'm expert in a great many aspects of ganja production, and i'd like to begin
making my knowledge and skill available to others more easily....
So, ask me questions!! Make suggestions!!...

Peace, respect,

Time 12:02, 22 Oct 1998

14.95 for a 25lb bag of castings....
thats the cheapest i have found.....

Time 10:53, 22 Oct 1998
From Vic High

Stix - thanks, remember the old days when a 1000w light was used in a 10 by 8
bedroom and we just kept turning and moving the plants daily to even out
growth? The concept would be laughed at today.

Eric - whether a poser or the real guy. please take it outside.

DarkStar - Wasn't trying to censor you. Just trying to keep conversation on topic.
When I archive, I edit out a bunch of off topic stuff to save space. One of the
nice things about HBC is that anyone can create a page to discuss a different
topic. This is just one tiny corner of the net that I've carved out for a specific
subject matter. I see no reason for people who want to discuss other subject
matter to not simply create a new page and discuss it there. Your welcome to
contribute here as much as anyone. Please just leave your problems with others

Time 09:09, 22 Oct 1998
From stix

Vic>>Thanks for the response a few days ago on my question of the Dutch
genetics Vic. I find everything you say as being very logical with what the
situation looks like, and I especially like your opinion of the higher light used by
breeders today. In addition to the affects you pointed out in how it affects the
end product by "masking" the inferior plants during breeding, I think it shows up
in our grows which are running 40 watts sq/ft or less such as mine because the
plants are not as acclimated to lower light levels as in the past. I just had a real
wrestling match with some of Sensi's Nl5xHaze I couldnt get to finish satisfactorly
and felt during the whole ordeal I needed much more light on them. I have to
admit I like your ideas on the plants and your approach to breeding them,
especially how your males are selected.

Time -3:18, 22 Oct 1998
From Vic High

DarkStar - what did I ever do to you? I thought I read a post from you at
cannabis.com saying that you were going to quit being a destructive kid and try
to contribute to the boards in a constructive manner?

I would assume that there is a reason behind your abuse? Enlighten us would
you? If you have something against Eric, then please keep the rest of us out of

This isn't my board. It's just a space Iborrow from HBC to allow a group of
us to talk about cannabis. I could create a private board with password access,
but that would be against my beliefs. Anyone is welcome here. It would just be
nice if the topic centered around MJ and not who the biggest idiot is.


      Time 13:29, 21 Oct 1998
      From ERIC

      JUSTICE>>>> hot mail has given me problems as well....others too... im going to
      cancel my account..im begining to get a little worried...
      YES i know...and i plan to say nothing more......
      about my questiopn on organics
      i have looked into the worm castings...
      they are not available here only by mail

      ok...you can take rabbits and peatmoss and worms to make castings
      first in a tub in a cool moist place
      put rabbit shit in the tub...mix in some peatmoss...and put alot of worms in it
      then just cover with a tarp....make sure they dont get too hot....you can see
      when they have broken everything down into castings.....
      plus rabbit shit makes good organic tea
      and the rabbits will eat your stalks and leaves...

      Time 13:03, 21 Oct 1998
      From justice

      hey i am agree'n with darkstar
      eric, man that didn't sound too poignant
      this will all end if you take vic's advice... don't even bother with it dude

      hey vic if you get my e-mail don't reply cause my password ain't workin or
      something. just leave me a post right here, cause hotmail be fucking me

      Time 10:35, 21 Oct 1998
      From ERIC

      Instead of builing a good organic soil to start with.......

      what about this......growing in buckets filled with half perlite...half vermiculite...

      NOW.....what is the best organic tea mixture for the best growth with taste in
      mind....taste is most important...
      do you guys have a recipe????????

      Time 10:01, 20 Oct 1998
      From Vic High

      RA - follow the "get to the point" link above, it will lead to an index of all the
      original HBC message boards. This one is used as a message board and not a

      Bill- the purple stems, petioles, and leaf veins (rare)mostly came from the
      blueberry. Romulan's pistals turn a pinky purple when the plant is in prime
      condition, so with romberry you can get plants with light purple stems and pink
      pistals. It's really quite a sight.

      Give them a big home and you'll get big thick stalks. And with big thick stalks,
      you'll get big fat buds.At least what I've noticed is that in 2 gallon pots,
      romberry was a moderate yielder, but in 10 gallons, it's much fatter than romulan

      at 8 weeks and so I figure it is kicking ass, haha.

      Both romulan and blueberry buds have that old blue indica look to them.
      Romberry retained that. You may even get some purplish blue hues if the buds
      are healthy. I'm getting it in 10 gal pots, but it was rare in the 2 gallons.

      Time 09:56, 20 Oct 1998
      From Baudelaire

      Dognuts> ncga's G13xNLb is a cross of G13xNorthern Lights and Mindbender
      (from Aloha).The more genetically correct name would be
      G13NLxMindbender I suppose.

      Time 16:10, 19 Oct 1998
      From dognuts

      does anybody know what the NLb is in ncga's G-13XNLb???
      anyone with any experience growing hash plant?
      if so, please list a brief description
      thanks all

      Time 15:20, 19 Oct 1998
      From Bill Clinton

      ERIC - Don't leave the board dude. I left Ron's because of all the flaming and I
      missed your posts, many of which were hilarious. Don't let the immature little kids

      run you out. They're ain't worth a shit anyhow.

      VIC - I have to Romberry that have beautiful purple stripes all up the stems & out

      onto the branches. These are good looking plants, so I hope one is a female.
      Did you notice this in you garden at all, and if so, was the trait carried by the
      plants that had the Romulan or Blueberry characteristics, or was there no
      relation at all? Regardless, I hope I get some nice coloring in the buds too.
      These plants look so good that it's almost going to hurt to have to kill them one
      day, but I should have plenty of clones by then. Thanx for a killer looking strain,
      I'm hoping the final product tastes as good as it looks.

      Time 13:18, 19 Oct 1998
      From Vic High (repost from Justin)

      I saw your post at your HBC site re:ncga.I have experience in the past
      with MCW, NC3, & NLW as follows:

      @ aprx 50watts/sq ft. under SonAgro 40%potting soil 50% perlite 10%
      vermaculite.Used peters 20/20/20 veg and Schultz bloom in blooming.

      Type....M/F Ratio....Quantity......Quality
      MCW......50/50.......Very Good...Very good buzz and taste
      NC3......60/40..........OK..............Ok buzz and taste had one that was exceptional
      NLW......0/100.....Very Good.....Good buzz had one that was paranoia

      MCW and NLW had good side branching and internode spacing.NC3
      stretched quite a bit.

      No hermies in any of them.

      Not gardening now.Had some problems and killed two gardens in a row.
      Lost some GOOD genetics, could have puked. Paranoid so my site is a long
      ways from home, making it hard to stay on top of things. Hoping to start anew in
      near future with Romberry & Niagra.Might make good cross !?!

      Hope this is helpful to you or just fun to hear.


      Time 11:28, 19 Oct 1998
      From oldtimer1

      Hi Eric and friend we have all had flack here, for a couple of months you could
      hardly get a post on before the board was messed so what! It meant that Vic
      would paste and cut all the good stuff to a back up page
      I assume its still there. Any how so some one wants to be abusive to you, does it
      hurt you no. All of us here know its crap and take no notice, if you go he wins, we

      loose! So just do what we do ignore him as though he never said a thing then we

      win and heís an even sadder looser than before ok!
      All the best Ot1.

      Time 13:29, 18 Oct 1998
      From Vic High (vic_high@hotmail.com)

      BB - that's cool. So I moved them into their 2 gal homes last night and was
      surprised at what I saw. The three tall ones had crystals on the leaves (never
      seen that before on such a young seedling still recieving 18 hours of light) and
      there were two males and a female. The runt is coming on strong now and may
      catch up but still is not reveiling gender. Looks like we were lucky here. They are

      about 12" now, so clones aren't too far off, but I'll take it slow. I'll take clones from

      tops when they reach 14-15" to create the moms (and pops) and then let
      seedlings bush out. When they are about 24-30" I'll take many clones from
      bottoms and then flower them.

      #2 - can you email me? I think I lost your email addy. Sure is strange that both
      batches of skunks were all female. None of mine turned hermie yet except the
      lone male. I did collect pollen on the remote chance you would be interested.
      RC, I hope you don't mind.

      Time 10:42, 18 Oct 1998
      From BB

      hey Vic..........yes i know of the authenticity of his stuff that ya got...and its
      real....keep GOOD CARE OF IT...........and i want a clone when ya can....The
      NCGA stuff is doing not to bad........thanks for asking..:) How you doing????
      whats new????

      Time 20:44, 17 Oct 1998
      From # 2

      high everyone...i'm still around and doing great.just haven't been online
      much lately...

      no more icq. i disconnected from it months ago due to some perceived probs but

      since it's been gone, no more probs.

      what kind of questions about the peruvians? i didn't get any males either but all
      are still growing and the sativa is looking especially nice...small but nice shape
      and extreme sativa-shape leaves. it's just now gone into flower (it's a tad behind
      everything else) but the indicas are appx. mid-way through. both will be indoors
      by wednesday to finish up. btw, i did use some of T2's haze pollen with the
      sativa...i'll let y'all know how many i come up with.

      as soon as the indoor grow is set up, i'll have more time to play with y'all
      again...til then, email me.

      hope everything turned out well from this past season with everyone...it did here!

      talk back to y'all soon...good luck...m.g.

      Time 14:12, 17 Oct 1998
      From Vic High

      Oldtimer, almost missed you down below. I'm always looking for alternate
      versions. That would be great. I have a limited supply of romulan/P75 seeds on
      the way. I figure they will be a prototype of a possible future romulan/princess
      hybrid that might be worth me and Soul working together on. I would be happy to

      share some with you to test out.

      Last week I planted some of the following with germination rates noted.

      G13/NL (thanks dankmaster?) 5/5
      bubbi's blueberry (thanks bubbi) 12/13
      Homegrown Fantaseed's ww/afghani hybrid (wwsp) (thanks richard) 10/10
      ncga's bluewidow (bw) (thanks sawtooth) 5/5
      SBC's kush special (kushsp) (thanks Dave) 9/10
      SBC's superkush (skush) (thanks Dave) 5/5

      There's not many of each, but there should be enough to give a good indication
      of each.

      Time 12:22, 17 Oct 1998
      From Vic High (vic_high@hotmail.com)

      Eric - hope you are at least still lurking. Please do us all a favour and don't go. I
      agree with Mike and giving in to the anon flamers just gives them
      strength.Just don't respond to their actions. Any credible readers here
      won't give those flames a second thought other than figure they are a waste of

      BB - welcome, how's the ncga strains doing for you? I finally germinated those
      chemo seeds from buddy. All 4 germinated but 1 is a runt. Because of the low
      numbers I won't delete that runt just yet. Any thoughts (here or in private) on
      their authenticity? Buddy had a good talk but I've been asking around and have
      been having trouble colaberating his story. With the secrecy of this field that
      means little though.

      Aeric - I'm with you on staying away from the obviously MJ orientated grow stores

      where the operators want you to talk pot. The fact that they try to trigger
      paranoia by hinting that the higher profile PNW store is run by cops bothers me
      as well. Go into the PNW and you often see middle aged to elderly picking up
      supplies for their exotics (orchids - bananas) and paying with their credit and
      bank cards. Go into the hippy store and you usually only see males (16-30) with
      either long hair or gotees (sp?) paying with bundles of cash. Which store do you
      think would be under survailence? Mind you this is just the Victoria scene where
      we probably have more hydro stores per capita than anywhere, haha. And more
      legit hobby growers?

      Time -1:56, 17 Oct 1998
      From aeric77

      hello all......
      Vic, them babies are still crawling, they''ll come around soon......a
      hippie at a grow store that wants to talk about weed......don't go back
      there....your method of taking the time to cube to get the best of a strain sure
      seems sound as do your thoughts on other breeders rush for the money without
      concern for future quality......but then, that's what makes you..you...

      best bet is to ignore the gnat...
      Luck 2 U.......

      Time 10:32, 16 Oct 1998
      From ERIC

      yes iv read it .....but i still read it and all the other sites Vicand NCGA
      pointed out...thanks for the info.......its been kinda helpful.....
      but i know me....i can read that shit all say long and not learn anything....
      where as if someone showed me i could learn it..im sure4 most people are like
      that though

      Time 04:49, 16 Oct 1998
      From oldtimer1

      Hi Vic just started pollinating the Blueberries if you want an alternate selection
      they will be 3 to 4 weeks let me know ok? Its nice to see you around.
      Eric we all get flack from time to time when posting on open sites cos thats what
      they are open! So don't worry about someone who gets enjoyment if you get
      wound up! Let them stew in there own testosterone not yours.
      Have you read R C Clarksís book marijuana botany its old but still sound.
      All the best Ot1.

      Time 00:56, 16 Oct 1998
      From Vic High

      oldtimer1 - wow are you ever a fountain of info that just keeps spilling over.
      Thanks. I've got my eyes open for those pots. My experience has been that we
      find these things in the simplest of places.

      aeric77 - if your still surfing this page, have your youngsters learned to walk yet?

      Hope so :)

      Stix - you comparing the three breeders is an excellent idea. I can't wait to hear
      your results. You see, naturally I'm an expert at growing romberry, so it will do
      the best in my garden. Mr Grimm will honestly find cinderella the best in his for
      the same reason, and ditto for ncga. Getting feedback from third parties such as

      yourself would be very helpful.

      To answer your question about why old genetics are outperforming new, here
      goes. IMO, I believe it is because of the excessive inbreeding and the selection
      criteria used by the breeders. IMO the quick and dirty (but effective) cubing the
      clone technique has been over used because of the competitive high demand to

      produce new strains. For example, marc emery and myself are trying to create a
      pure strain of romulan. Marc has done in a year which I expect to take me about
      2 -3 years.

      The shortcuts are fine when you consider the one clone you are trying to
      stabilize into a strain. But when you take that strain and create hybrids with
      another cubed clone and then cube a particular offspring, you are compounding
      the negative effects of the inbreeding. After a decade of so, this catches up to
      any genepool.

      Another selection criteria that bothers me is the steady use of higher and higher
      lumen intensity.What's happening is that breeders are growing at higher
      lumens so they don't really notice which plants are more vigorous and therefore
      are not always selecting for the plants with the most vigour. Instead they are
      selecting for a particular flavour, sugar coating, or just high potency.

      To create a sound genetic base for any strain I strongly believe that you need to

      work with large populations. This is one reason that romulan is going to take so
      long to stabilize for me. Another step that slows me down is that I analyze the
      offspring of each male before I include that male into the breeding program. I
      hope this helps answer you question somewhat. It's somewhat of a complex
      issue and hard to explain clearly for me.

      jeremy - sorry to hear about the dead momma. It sure is a good thing you found
      out in time to salvage so many clones. Good luck. I also like to grow in large
      conatiners, but it is good to slowly work up to the larger containers in stages. Me,

      I go from seedling plug to 2 gallon to 10 gallon. Sometimes I use a couple more
      intermediate stages to save space and have found that the larger a plant is
      when going into the large 10 gallon conatiners, the better and quicker it settles

      Time 00:26, 16 Oct 1998
      From Vic High

      hey guys, hows it going?

      Crane welcome back.

      #2 - where you been bud? Been ICQing you but don't seem to be getting
      through. I've got a couple questions about your peruvian genetics. I can't
      remember what you said you ended up with. Did any up your skunks go male?

      Eric - just smoke some of that hershy bar and never mind the flamer. You are
      just as welcome here as anyone else. For some, the cannabis pages have been
      just too peaceful lately. As for a secret page, others share your thoughts on this,

      but I was hoping to keep a public page accessable from the BCGA webpage.
      I'm actually quite happy with the way things have been going here with the
      exception of my scarcity of posts :)Maybe you might want to keep private
      discussions to email? Anyway, that chocolate thai sounds like a fun project. Have

      you followed any of the genetics links at the beginning of the Breeding page at
      cannabis.com? NCGA and I posted a few URLs there that should help you get
      your feet wet. After that, our answers to your genetic questions would have more

      meaning. Good Luck.

      westcoast - wondering about Pacific North West Hydroponics ( PNW) are ya?
      Well in Vancouver, I didn't care for the one on Hastings street. I bought an HPS
      kit and they gave it to me in peices (seemed pretty shitty to me). The one in
      Surrey was quite helpfull and I noticed it was a popular place. I've never been in
      the Langley store. In Victoria, all the hydro stores were low key and looked as
      though they were run on a fixed budget. Then in came PNW with a very high
      profile and looked as if they had deep pockets backing them. They also offer
      better than normal selection but remain fairly quiet. Well, the word is from the
      other hydro stores is that they feel that the law is involved in it's operation. I'm
      not so sure about this. The store that freaks me out is the one where the hippy
      running the place talks about MJ with you any chance he gets.

      In Vancouver, three good places are Jon's plant factory (hastings), WTI
      (41st/knight), and wwf (langley). I've had good vibes and experiences at all


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