BC Growers Association


BCG Chat Archives - November 15-30


Time -2:07, 1 Dec 1998
From Vic High

      Hey guys, just back from Vansterdam. Finally got to meet with Breeder Steve.
      He's quite a generous guy with his time, and boy can he roll big joints! He rolled
      a J of brand X that must have been a whole 8th! Rope will get me stoned, so that
      was way out of my league.

      What did get my attention was his aquaponic setup that he calls "The
      Sweetwater System".It employs a double res setup, one typical, and one
      being a fish tank loaded with fish. Water in the two res's are exchanged
      regularily (something like every hour). He says he never cleans his fish tank, as
      all the plants and bottom feeders use up all wastes. Plants are fed with drip
      emmitters via the typical res. pH doesn't fluctuate and the ppms remain between
      300 and 400.

      Now these drip emmitters fed two setups. One was a traditional "dutch pot"
      system. You know, the one where each plant is grown on a 5 gallon pail? He
      used a 5 or 6 inch basket that was 3/4 filled with those red balls (I think they are
      an expanded clay called "hyrotron"?). Steve then covered the red balls with 1"
      layer of a blend of worm castings and "Steve's Special Blend". The Special
      Blend (2-6-5) is an organic mix comprised of green sand, rock phosphate, fruit
      bat quano, feather meal, steamed bone meal- regular & fine, kelp meal,
      sunflower seed hull ash, canola seed meal, cotton seed meal, alfalfa meal,
      langbeinite, corn gluten meal, pyro clay, diatomaceous earth, and calcium
      peroxide. Initially, the low nitrogen surprised me, but then after I thought about it,
      I realized that the plants were probably getting all the nitrogen they needed from
      the fish tank. I believe there was an air stone in teh bottom of each pail. Seven
      weeks ago Steve planted tomato seeds into the medium and now the plants are
      3 feet tall and have softball sized green tomatoes on them. WOW!

      The second setup was basically a large table, 4' high, covered with something
      like 1/4" dense plastic. Holes were cut in it to hold the 4" or 5" net cups. Again
      the cups were filled with the reddish clay balls and topped with the special blend
      and worm castings. Again the net baskets were fed with drip emitters. What
      interested me is what happened under those net cups.

      A large pond liner tarp was suspended under the net cups to catch the water
      and funnel it back into the typical res. There was about 3' between the bottom of
      the net cups and the bottom of the tarp. And you know what this means?????
      LOTSA ROOM FOR ROOTS! Big roots equal big buds in my book. This feature
      had me totally stoked!

      I'm one that has had little respect for the hydroponic side of our hobby for some
      time. I've watched others playing with the large numbers of clones and shaken
      my head (legal risk). I've watched them fight pH drifts and shaken my head. I've
      watched them fight root rot and shaken my head. I've watched them lose entire
      crops due to pump or power failures and shaken my head. I've watched them
      pumping in the chems (hurting the environment) and shaken my head. I've
      watched them be proud of their 1-2 lbs per light in their high intensity gardens
      and shaken my head. Well I've stopped shaking my head for this one. Steve's
      way of working with the Dutch Pot system seems to take care of all my
      hydroponic concerns. I just wish I wasn't too stoned to have asked him what he
      fed his fish and why his emmitters didn't clog.

Time 18:03, 29 Nov 1998
From Vic High (?????)

      Well, looks as if i have some more housecleaning when I get back.

      Yes I do have an email addy, but the point is that NO ONE has ever emailed me
      there. We'll just have to see if I was dumb enough to give my ISP legit info. But
      like I said, NO ONE has gotten close enough to find out.

      Budm - preflower developement will occur differently under various conditions.
      Maybe your FOAF can't see them because they aren't there yet? Good luck.

Time -1:34, 29 Nov 1998
From Pauly

I think I remember your challenge, Vic. You offered about 40 or 50 seeds to anyone who could email you thru your isp server.

Time 14:40, 28 Nov 1998
From Budm

Hi, I hope everyones having a good weekend, Anyway my friend is still having the prolbem with his Romberys. He went out and got one of those pocket 30x magnifiyers, and due to his poor eyesight, broke out Ed Rs and Mel Franks Books with the M./F pix, and still cant see any of what determines M/F. Does it become mor pronounced in the 7-8 week, and become easier to determine? Also how many weeks would someone keep a seedling in a Solo 16oz cup, before replanting? Thanks for the help.


Time -1:33, 28 Nov 1998
From Vic High

Thanks bro! site definately needed cleaning.

Ok, you net bullies, if you really are feeling powerful, then email me at the ISP
account that I log onto the net at. That is the ONLY way that you can convince
me that you have any ability to trace me. I'll even make it easy for you and post
this without using a proxy. Better yet, post the name that owns my ISP account!
I'm surfing naked, so if you can't even do that, then your deck is empty, so
begone! Don't even bother wasting your time posting who my internet provider
is, that's child's play and says nothing, there are thousands of subscribers to
this internet service provider. Find me if you can.

To all newcomers, I've posted this challange in the past. To date no one has
ever been able to track me down. First security tip is to make sure that your
browser won't accept cookies. Second is to never open attatched files in ICQ or
email, or such. Third, don't open mail from strangers. Just a couple of simple
rules that has kept me safe and sound. Although, I'll set an example here and
post without a proxy here, it is best to learn to use one and surf with them.

Budm - thanks for the warning. I think that post was simply some sort of bait to
get me to post there. I just haven't felt like obliging yet, haha.

Time 14:33, 27 Nov 1998
From Budm

Hi Vic, Hey I saw a post that I think you should look at, someone is trying to be
you, for what agenda it may serve, I dont know. They claim you are going to realease a new "Kong" type strain.The post is transparant in the fact that your name is black. Its at can.com breeding board. I just thought you would like to know. They say inpersanation is flaterty, check it out. peace

Time -1:15, 27 Nov 1998
From Vic High

Aeric - happy T-day to you as well. We canucks ate turkey some time ago, but hell, had to celabrate again to honour our southern friends, haha ....... So your one of the Bros are ya? LMAO .... I did not know that!

Budm - you got me there. That is one trend that I've never noticed, but then again, I have never really looked at that aspect. I just go by preflowers, but I'll give your friend's problem some thought. It's amazing what comes to you in your sleep :)

Time 19:49, 26 Nov 1998
From 67ed

Budm, I don't know anything about Romberry, but I don't think you can tell the sex by how much the stem is thickening. Doesn't he have anyone around with good eyesight? Peace

Time 19:28, 26 Nov 1998
From 67ed

I just harvested a two foot thai that had flowered for 98 days. There was a yellowing leaf problem that didn't get corrected until the final 2 weeks, and she lost all her fans and some of the inner leaves, too. The buds ripened unevenly, but the main harvest took 98 days to flower. 85% outdoor grown. The buds were skinny and mostly smelled like hay, but what a surprise when I lit a joint! It's a potent, full, up high like the pot I remember from the early 70's. I'm trying to decide if I should cross homegrown fantasy haze with this thai, but maybe I should just leave it as it is. This thai is about what I was looking for. Peace

Time 16:27, 26 Nov 1998
From Budm

Hi Vic, and Co.Vic or any helpfull soul, AFOAF has a diabetic condition,that effects his eyesight,(even a magnifier does little to help). the question is he has a couple of five and a half week old Romb's, and he is having a hard time identifying M/F, can you tell me some of the character traits with this strain, that might help? One RB that has been set in the dark, on 12/12 while the others are still 24/0, is starting to get a fatter stem near the top internodes, is this indicative of a female getting ready for the weight of colas? any help is great. Thanks, Peace

Time 08:07, 26 Nov 1998
From aeric77

hey Vic......happy American Turkey Day to ya....

Time 16:52, 24 Nov 1998
From toker2

blueberry surprise huh?sounds like somethin the ol lady would throw down on sunday night hehe.well it's kinda a pisser when shit like that happens, but....it does. no room for anymore seedlings at the moment but thanks just the same.whoever does grow them out should be able to spot the haze influence fairly early i would think

Time 18:18, 22 Nov 1998
From Lady J

hi all,
My initial reaction to ot1's numbers would be that 95% makes the process statistically
acceptable. If 95 of 100 plants are true female I don't think many would complain. But
again, I have not looked at the research myself to know anything more specific. One
possibility would be that a seed formed in a calyx that has been saturated with a hormone
could potentially be affected later on. If these seeds are mixed in with seeds from
non-treated pollinated females, we wouldn't know if there was a difference in the two
seed types. A successful experimental design would take this variable into account.


Time 16:10, 22 Nov 1998
From Vic High

Budm - definately please keep us posted. I think both Lady J and I would be
interested in any autoflowering observations. I'm currently trying out two ww
hybrids; ncga's bluewidow, and homegrown fantaseed's ww/afghani (white widow
special). There is some of bubbi's blueberry, g13/nl, a couple of kush varieties
as well in this batch, and the widow genetics are monsters, with the bluewidows
being the biggest. ???
Time 16:03, 22 Nov 1998
From Vic High

My GA comments were more of an intellectual trolling of sorts. I was fishing for
more info as you supplied OT1. I too would love to be proven wrong, haha. My
comments were also more theoretically based than based on practical

But yes I've played with GA. I originally did it to see if I could duplicate ED R's
results, and I was successful on many strains. I used the same source as Ed R,
potassium gibberelate in aerosol form. I've tried it on romulan a couple of times
with mixed results. Both times I couldn't get any true male flowers but did get
some stamens amongst the female calyxes. These stamens wouldn't shed pollen

My hunch from from my genetic understanding and limited GA experience is/was
that the pollen from the stamens that grow from amongst the calyxes produce all
female seed. Pollen from complete male flowers can produce males. OT1 and
others with GA experience, what kind of male flowers did you end up with to get
male offspring? Also, did you use any of those rare males for breeding? Just
curious what kind of male/female ratios they would produce.

Elbow - My position on GA is that it is a very usefull tool in learning the hidden
genetics of special clones. When cubing a clone, I feel that limited use of the
all-female seeds could be useful. I also feel that it can be dangerous in a serious
breeding program if one isn't careful. Many Vancouver seed breeders love their
GA and they also have a problem with hermies, coincidence? I'm not saying that
GA creates hermie offspring, but just that it is hard to select against the hermie
trait when you are creating them on purpose.

Budm - I know little of what holland has been doing with GA and have no opinion
on it.
Time 15:31, 22 Nov 1998
From Budm

Hi Ot1, At www.seedbank.co.ukI have noticed that they have several
Female only offerings of Dutch Passion strains, I dont think they have given up,
cause I have seen a couple of other
banks (Jocks) who are soon going to have DP's Female only offerings. I would
like to know if any one has exp with Ingmar's strains from WHite widow Web, as I
have the Cal Orange X Master widow, and the Skunk X Master Widow, they got
delivered Friday to my Bros addy in Montreal, I should have them next week, and
am tenitively, for a Jan
germ date. If any one is intrested, I will keep them uprised, of
developements.They were one hell of a bargain 11 beans of each for 65usd
delivered! Should I be exicited?

Time 15:12, 22 Nov 1998
From oldtimer1

Vic humbled be blowed ělolî, Why should you be humbled you have the best info
site for puff on the net especially for organic growing its unique!! Apart from that
we all learn from one another thats what life should be about. As far as how male
or female the cannabis plant is, well from my anecdotal observations over 850 of
es alone are grown a year and it never produces a male flower no matter how itís
messed about! Yet when when sex reversed and self pollinated the seed
produced 5% males Iím not a scientist but Iím
100%certain that there was no other pollen involved.
Maybe Lady J has some idea why? I reckon its worth a try on your part with
Romulan and for you I would rather be proved right in this case. I've only done it
twice and both times the progeny have produced males. I was looking for female
only seeds and couldn't get them, so I failed and shelved the project until I knew
more! More interestingly Dutch passion who were able to charge a lot more for
all female seeds also don't offer them any more I wonder why?
All the best Ot1.
Time 15:07, 22 Nov 1998
From elbow

vic, have you done some experimenting with GA?
curious to know your results as i am not familiar with your original position on GA.
Time 14:44, 22 Nov 1998
From Budm

Hi Vic, What do you mean about GA, are you reffering to the mass marketing, of
the female only seeds comming out of A-Dam, by Dutch Passion ? Or is you
inpending humbling bassed on something closer to home? My RomBerrys are
4weeks tommrow, and they are just starting there lat branches from the
internodes, they are on 8-9 internodes real tight spaced and measure 9inches
tall. In a super soil type mix, 24/0, 400mh, light feedings every other
watering,Oxplus each watering 3-4 days, is there devolpment average? These
plants look great! And this first timmer finds them
easy to work with. Thanks again!

Time 11:52, 22 Nov 1998
From Vic High

Budm - I know what you mean, I think we all have been humbled somewhat here
in one way or another. I'm sure I'm about to be humbled about my position on
GA induced all female seeds, haha. A goodway to learn I figure :)

Time 02:50, 22 Nov 1998
From oldtimer1

Budm Its nice to know its read. Grow well Ot1.

Time 00:26, 22 Nov 1998
From Budm

Hi again, I spent 2 1/2 hours on the BCGA archives, And I am so very humbled
to be in such company! Vic thanks for your reply. And Ot1 I have learned so
much history from your posts! Thanks
for having me! Ill say it again I love this place. Peace a prosperty to all.

Time -2:49, 22 Nov 1998
From m.g.

eric, i have yet to see a plant that didn't do well in the summer heat.they
all grow pretty much the same (in my experiences) as long as they have plenty
of h2o during the hottest times.both bb and romberry were grown in 5 gal.
pots (outside of pot painted white before planting) and both strains grew to the
6' +/- level using ONLY premium potting soil (i use "whitney farms") and ferts
VERY SPARINGLY...in other words, i don't mess with the "fancy shit".

Time 09:30, 21 Nov 1998

hey MG

how does blueberry and romberry do in the hot as summer months. and do you think ( i have no idea how large they get outdoors..well i have an idea but need to know) that five gallons of soil in a five gallon bucket with potassium based water crystals will give enuff soil per plant to bring to maxium size.

see im sure the plants will survive and im aware that the tap root will deffently be root bound. Just as long as they can reach mature size with out having to be watered every third day...the crystals will be added 2 ounces per bucket..and they need to make it 7 days between watering.

whet do you guys think?

Time 08:27, 21 Nov 1998
From Vic High

Just a quick post before buddy picks me up for another day at the grind. I know I'm missing responding to many earlier posts and I'm sorry. It's absolutely nothing personal.

Budm - I see no problem with pruning as long as you keep keep the number of main colas at 4 or less. I've found that I get diminished returns if I have too mainy main colas. What I do is say prune top at 12". and then in two weeks prune away the top node with the top two colas. Then two weeks before flowering I would pinch back all lower branches except top 4 main colas. That's how I hold back my veg plants if I have a shortage of space in the flower room. I never do any main pruning within 2 weeks of going to flower to ensure I get good cola production.

C14 - On the chromosomal level, I figure there is still alot I don't understand on cannabis sexual expression and determination. It's definately more complex than simply X & Y genes, haha. However, I have a very sneaky suspicion that if you are getting males when doing completely isolated selfing pollinations, you may be working with some natural hermies or exposing your girls to outside pollen. Just MHO.

Time 07:58, 21 Nov 1998
From Budm

Hi Vic, & Co. Been Lurking fo some time now I love this place! I have a question,AFOF has five Rombabys 6 weeks old under 400mh, They have another 6 weeks in Veg to go, cause his closet has only one area,And there are 8 Jack Flash 2week old kids, that need to veg 6 more weeks till he puts in the 400hps conv bulb and does 12/12. The question is, with pruning can I accomplish, letting the JF, catch up with the RB, in a attempt to have a sorta unoform light to plant distance? Just for the record They are in Soil, Very much like the SuperSoil mix, 24/0 light 1/2 strenth BioBlend growth & Superthrive, every other watering. Sorry for the long post.Any and all replys greatly apprechited, Have a good holiday to all of the bros, and sis's in the US,


Time 01:10, 21 Nov 1998
From oldtimer1

LadyJ I think that if you you used the dilutions I used 5 times daily they may have been irreversibly damaged. as it was they wilted down then had distorted and stretched growth. It sounds like a better idea to go lighter more regularly. Ot1.

Time -3:53, 21 Nov 1998
From Lady J

hi all,

ot1>>Thanks for the response. I looked in Marijuana Botany and there was a citation that used 100ppm GA3 foliar spray for five days consecutively. Some pistillate plants (no numbers were given)developed staminate clusters and were selfed with acceptable results. I will try to find the actual paper that Clarke references (I've done this before) and see exactly what was done. It could be a more convenient way to maintain large clone-based gene pools.


Time 15:28, 20 Nov 1998
From oldtimer1

c14 No prob as I said Iíll keep you in mind! As I said below Iím working on other
project at the mo my space is limited.

Mota I get very good results with the 600 400 combination but if I was in the
states I would be very tempted to try the agro sun 1 k halide. Our HQIT metal
halide run of a 400 w sodium ballast puts out 42000 lumens the sodium lamp
58000 lumens a 600 w sun t plus sodium puts out 98000 lumens our lights are
different to yours because our mains voltage is 240 v so all our lights have their
igniters with the ballast not the lamp. So our results may not be directly
comparable but to my mind the resin quality and quantity is best with a mix.

Time 11:16, 20 Nov 1998
From Mota

Thanks oldtimer1 on your advise regarding the 1000W combo light.The
Sunlight system I'm talking about is made in the USA.I've been using a
400W MH for both veg and flowering. It seems that the buds are different when
compared with buds grown under an HPS.I'm definetly for quality and not
quantity.So far the MH has served me well, is it just me or are the buds
more resiny grown under a MH?


Time 08:01, 20 Nov 1998
From oldtimer1

LadyJ Iíve been looking back through my diaries and cant find what I did with the
GA It was a bit heath Robinson anyway. From what I can remember I got the GA
in tablet formI think it was 1 or .1 gram and I used about 1/4 tab to a litre
of demin water per spray.the clone vars were sprayed to run off a week
after rooting through on 18/6 and again 10 days later with the lights changed to
12/12 at the same time, In about three weeks both male and female flowers were
present. Pollenwas taken and used on unsprayed cuttings of the same
variety. Iíve only ever done it on two varieties, one produced 5% males the other
about 8%.Both the original plants have never produced a hermy I still have and
grow them regularly one for 15 years the other 8 y. It made me realise that my
concept of male female was not quite right. I was looking for ga earlier this year
as I was going do some work on the e series I got side tracked on another
project but will come back to it in 18 months or so. On your side of the pond you
can get it pre mixed in spray cans, I think I found it in a link from the BCGA main
page if not Vic can probably point you in the right direction. In fact Vic if Romulan
is not an F1 you could have it pure breeding in one generation using this
method. Even with an F1 the recombinations are closer than brother and sister.
All the bestOt1.

Time 17:07, 19 Nov 1998
From west coast

good to be back viewing this exellent site. Vic high is the man i respect.
hey vic can you give me some advice just invested some fat coin in the organic scene..found the dude at pacific north west was very friendly, but a tad to heaty for me...these dudes shouldnt roast fatties in the back of the shop.... am having a problem obtaining the proper partners... also cant get my hands on a steady supply ofkick ass genetics( love the shiskaberry} any advice.ps. put my ladies in 10 gallon bagsand veg for about a month...peace to alll

Time 14:02, 19 Nov 1998
From c14

ot1 - hey thanks for the reply :) i do understand totally what your saying about
the [way to much] downside of the whole seed thing. after just remarking on the
type i favour myself,i got pestered too, and then abused when i didn't reply in
two days, just like you say. *yawn* so, i can understand what your problems
might have been. rest assured i would not ever even ask, my comments before
are all i have to say about it really. i must admit i havent tried the current
bubblegum, i gave it away in '93. it was lightly flavoured like bubblegum, with a
sweet taste and smell. not ultra potent, but certainly pleasant. i was shocked to
see what they are asking for those seeds - imo $200usd is outrageous.
anyway, i was just asking, and trying to share a little, hope you don't mind really.

Time 07:02, 19 Nov 1998
From Budm

This is a very Humbling site, so much to learn, thanks to Vic, OT,67ed,cooki, and everone else, who drops there awesome knowledge, This lurker is learning volumes here, THANK YOU ALL!


Time 17:44, 18 Nov 1998
From Lady J

Ot1>>what ppm and schedule do you use for GA applications? It seems to me that hermies would not be a problem unless enviromentally produced or unless there is some genetic propensity in the strain. Have you been able to document sex ratios in subsequent generations?


Time 16:31, 18 Nov 1998
From oldtimer1

c14 Iím not working the e series at this time If I do Iíll keep you in mind. For sex reversal 2 sprays of potassium GA on 12 / 12 hrs always does the trick but the cubing to fix the line with proper selection take 2+ years as in this case she is a pure F1. I just don't have time to get involved in the seed business I donít post my email addy any more because people write asking or begging for seeds. I know Vic has the same problem but on a bigger scale, He thought he could ease the prob by making seed available cheaply for all through a seed vender and all that did was fill up his hot mail in box with people asking for free seeds, he was talking about just pulling the plug and I understand why. So I don't do seeds, people have virtually stopped writing to me asking now, but in the past some even got abusive when they didn't get a reply within a day or two its just to much. Iím not suggesting that this is the case with you but would like you to understand why. I have some theories about Thai and the hermaphrodite tendency and when i have a bit more time Iíll write them up and see what you think. No I don't like Bubble Gum, I have a mum made from a cutting brought from Gronegen selected from a big commercial grow out, I just don't seem to like indicas that much but may use it in a future breeding project. All the best Ot1.

Time 14:53, 18 Nov 1998
From justice

hey all have any of you done quick production-style sea of green crops under flourescents before?

Time 12:58, 18 Nov 1998
From c14

ot1 - respect ! man you are after my own heart so much it's grrrooooovvy!!

if you are at all interested in sharing your strain out, it is possible to get a batch of seeds from a cutting - this is what i do - simply drop the ph sharply to around 6, load on phosphorus, take the light down to around 8 hours, and that's it! a few [probably malformed] male flowers will normally be produced. as soon as this happens, return the plant to nominal ph.

it's worth hooding the plant, or perhaps just moving it to an isolate spot, as the amount of pollen produced can be surprisingly large. testing these seeds is essential - as they are self-fertilised, there are typically many aberrations in the first generation - tricotyledons, monocots, stunted plants, as well as ultra desirable types too...it might be worth mentioning here - i've seen many times people claim that seeds so produced are 100% females..bullshit!

i've used this technique for 15 years, a great many times, and i expect aprox. 75-80% females, no more than that. abberations are common. some plants will be extremely variable between branches, so before i take cuttings, i prefer to grow them out a bit, and have a look at the flower type/form etc...anyways, this is a reliable method for seed production from a single plant. i recommend all you master growers give it a try.

btw, problems such as hermaphroditism are very rare with the seeds i make like this, typically only when those damn thai genes are in there... thai is nice thc-wise, but as anyone who's worked with it knows, adding those genes in means years of refining the results back to remove the undesirable traits.

i know some of you think i'm a bit obsessive in my breeding, but hey, you like bubblegum don't you?

one other remark on your special 15 year-old ot1 - if you are willing to share, pollen produced by the method outlined above can easily be mailed in a christmas card ;)


Time 07:50, 18 Nov 1998
From Anonymous

I've started growing as a hobby however I couldn't ever get a good batch. In B.C. it seems that everything you gets is good so I need to know how I can get my hands on a batch of good seeds before the next growing season. They need to be suitable for growing outdoors. I was wondering could you help me out.

Time 02:00, 18 Nov 1998
From oldtimer1

Mota It depends on what you want quality or quantity also the genetics of the plants you are using.

When the folk here are talking better potency out doors part of this is due to the fact they are south of my 52 deg lat, they have real sun. Secondly indoors they are probably using sodiums only.

We have found that potency is improved using halide in addition to sodium during flowering especially with sat heavy vars. I know this goes against tradition but thats what we find. Our grower no 5 produced 100.4 grams per sq ft using 2 x 600 w sodiums only using our vars at 50.78 w per sq ft. The bud are dense full of crystal but the top edge is missing from the stone it just has no zip. My best average using the same mix of plants is 89.8 grams per sq ft with a 600 w S and a 400 w H the difference is a way better smell and a high that is way up there scalp tingling.

If you are talking sunlight systems UK they have a bad rep. We use 21 st century garden lights using separate units then if one goes wrong you grow isn't ruined while its being repaired.When you pick a lamp make sure itís not a mirror finish type they tend to have hot spots specular aluminium types are best like the HLS and 21st centuryís 311 types. They may be dearer but repay in the long run.

67ed Wernard got most of his strains from a guy called old Ed and posies spec for haze used to be:-
Mostly Mexican and Colombian some southern Indian and Thai A pure breeding stabilised hybrid pure sativa appearance many slim flowers can be lime green, dark green, silver blue or purple smell/taste Incredible sticky sweet. almost sweet and sour smell high very potent, clear up, energetic high
height 2 -3 metres
yield med - high
harvest date Netherlands natural photo period - end December
12 hr exposure to harvest 12 to 16 weeks

For Holland they recommend glass or poly tunnel with darkening from June with 13 hrs dark to finish September for the best yields and potency. other info inbred 20 years, approx 5 to 10 % are special the rest just so so, 75% are female. This is very close to my strain except the very best go to between 16 and 18 weeks, homegrown must have done what they call improving the strain to reduce the hrs to 10 to 13 because thats not what posi started with. In fact it is very close to what you get with an F1 cross between original haze and original skunk No 1 which is probably closer to the truth.The other thing is to grow original haze well indoors light levels in excess of 100 w per sq ft are needed its not an economical crop.

Eric it is a 15 year old one off sorry!

All the best Ot1.

Time 18:51, 17 Nov 1998<br>
      <b><font size=+1>F</font>rom</b> 67ed <p>
      I might add, I heard that their haze only took 10-13 weeks to flower compared to 12-16 weeks by others, and I wanted to find out why, so I e-mailed them to ask. Ot1, I recall you said the best haze took up to 18 weeks to flower, any comments? Peace<br>

      <p><hr size=2>
      <br><b><font size=+1>T</font>ime</b> 18:42, 17 Nov 1998<br>
      <b><font size=+1>F</font>rom</b> 67ed <p>
       Yep, Posi haze is mostly Columbian x Mexican with small amounts of thai and south Indian. It was created by "the Haze brothers" in California 20 years ago. Here's an email I got from Homegrown fantasy two days ago:<img src="/resources/spacer.gif" alt="" width=8>High there 76 ED !!
      Our Haze is indeed from Posi's genetics, the flowering times do differ. Hydro tends to be quicker. Bio ( on soil) we find cantake 1 - 2 weeks longer. 10 - 13 weeks would be most likely on a hydro base. Of course there is some variation from growroom to growroom, even though it's the same strain. Haze is one of our most popular strains and is well worth the wait. A real uphigh of cosmic proportions.
      Wishing you stickey fingers,Isolde & John>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Eric, I agree, that's why I fought to grow the thai outdoors, only bringing it in to the HPS when temps went below 50 degrees. I just can't get potent plants growing indoors! I had a haze hybrid from Neville 9 years ago, and made thousands of seeds, but my house was broken in to, and all seeds stolen! Since then, getting more haze has been a real obsession with me. Peace<br>

      <p><hr size=2>
      <br><b><font size=+1>T</font>ime</b> 17:44, 17 Nov 1998<br>
      <b><font size=+1>F</font>rom</b> Lady J <p>
      Haze is a sativa hybrid. If I remember right, they mentioned mexican,columbian and thai in varying degrees. This would explain some of the variation I saw in the hybrids Nevil sent me. Some of the extreme sativa characteristics included one plant with a 6" sport in 24hrs. That happened right after the induction of flowering. Outdoors they would have been giants.


      <p><hr size=2>
      <br><b><font size=+1>T</font>ime</b> 17:22, 17 Nov 1998<br>
      <b><font size=+1>F</font>rom</b> ERIC <p>
      hey toker2 if im right i believe that haze is a satavia that has south american genetics
      my experience with the satavias is that outside they will knock you on the floor with a smile
      but the same clone inside will just give you a smile..
      so your assesment is correct..hell to tell you the truth EVERY STRAIN i have tried outdoors my friends grew inside and mine is always more potent....<br>

Time 12:50, 17 Nov 1998
From toker2

      stix i just finished some posi original haze for the most part under 44w/sq'.the
      clones were taken from outdoor mothers.the outdoor buds at 7 weeks had far
      better potency and taste than the indoors had at 12 weeks.it did make some
      righteous size buds indoors and a nice yield,approx 2 oz/plant.unfortunately,it
      just didn't have the kick of it's outdoor mother.i really believe haze needs far
      more lumens

Time 12:43, 17 Nov 1998
From Mota

      What do you think about Sunlight Systems 400MH/600HPS combo
      light?Do you think it is better than using a 1000W HPS for flowering?


Time 12:41, 17 Nov 1998
From Mota

      Did you get my e-mail?


Time -3:10, 17 Nov 1998
From righteous nugs

      hey, has anyone out there ever grown or smoked blue moonshine.i just
      recieved an order of seeds and can't wait to start them.If anyone's got any
      information on the strain, i would GREATLY appreciate it if you could share it
      with me.----thanks

Time -3:09, 17 Nov 1998
From stix

      Mirage>>Afraid that was someone else with the Red Stripe, Cooki I think. As for
      the nl5xhaze, I tried it both on e f table with 40+ wsqft and in e f trays with much
      less light, bout 30 wsqft using gh nutes with fox farm and ej catalyst in both
      systems. Most plants in strain outgrew table and were moved to trays but a
      couple stayed short enough and bloomed profusely-large as a football and
      loose as could be. Ones in trays were more sativa and finished bout 6 feet and
      were more potent with better looking buds, tho still loose. They are covered with
      resin. More light would have been a big plus and perhaps the sole reason my
      results werent as good as your own. Air turnover every minute in both grows. Im
      not as dissappointed since Ive sampled them since theyve matured, the early
      samples werent too potent at all-I think they were worth the effort cause they do
      express the haze pretty well in the smoke and thats always a treat.

Time 20:57, 16 Nov 1998
From stix

      Lady J>>I agree with that, this strain is very stable, with the most
      Indica-influenced individual still very much sativa dominate. Out of 9 females
      only one produces the "braided" type buds its known for, but its been an
      intresting experience. I still think Nevilles is much much better tho.
      OT1>>Hehe, she sounds better and better. Im with you on the hazes. You might
      wanna try haze/skunk if you havent yet, great taste and mellow high(for haze)
      and I bet with your organics it would be a tasty delight.

Time 20:42, 16 Nov 1998

      BTW , I have a few NL#5 Haze that I have just harvested , I was really happy with
      the product produced . Fat tight buds , minimal stretching.. and mine was from
      Mike , straight from Sensei. Mine gained height of around 5 and a half foot , they
      yielded pretty well as well.
      I bent them over and it increased the yield.
      I believe that you are dealing with more variables then just a bad seed . How is
      your lighting ? Maximized? And your air flow ? and what are you feeding it ?

Time 20:32, 16 Nov 1998

      Stix ~ I'd like to source some of that "Red Stripe" . I'll swap something for it
      ...What do you think ?

Time 15:46, 16 Nov 1998

      Time 10:12, 16 Nov 1998
      From stix

                   OT1>>Damn, I think Im fallin in love with one of your ladies(5ft tall,
      skinny, long buds, fall over on first toke),
                   hope you dont mind. I find her irresistable.

      olt1>>>>>> what strain is the refering to ???
      is it available??

Time 15:22, 16 Nov 1998
From oldtimer1

      Stix it isn't like that, it comes in medium fast it feels like the rush will never stop
      then after about 30 to 40 minutes things become very clear and easy. This is
      when the uninitiated make the mistake of rolling another one, because its like a
      roller coaster ride the next one is usually bigger than the first. Well when they
      have another during that first lucid period it usually all gets to much, white out
      time! Once your used to it you just sit back and enjoy the ride and have another
      hit a bit later on that is if you have the time.

      A true funny story This guy has to drive from London down the M3 [ like an
      interstate highway] to the new forest area every day and puffs a bit to cope with
      the boredom. He gets a bit this grass and rolls a big one neat, a short while later
      he's finding it difficult to cope somehow makes it across the lanes to the hard
      shoulder misjudges it and ends up the embankment he gets out and just sits on
      the grass. Then the police arrive he is shaking they think heís having a fit or
      something, eventually he gets it through to them that he feels a bit unwell but
      thinks he will be ok in a bit, so they take him on to the next service area and get
      him settled down with a cup of coffee and arrange for a recovery truck to bring
      his van there. He said once he was alone he had fits of giggles for ages
      because the cops were so kind to him because they thought he was ill and if
      they had realised he was stoned it would have been cuffs and bruises and he
      would have lost his job. Its one of his fav smokes now but he never uses it when
      heís driving. Personally I prefer my haze hybrids they make me feel good every

      ERIC Indoors my Blue berries 18 female from seed shortest 32 inches tallest 42
      inches av about 3 ft outdoors on a full season don't know but must be bigger.

      All the best Ot1.

Time 15:16, 16 Nov 1998
From Lady J

      stix>>I believe the sensi nl5xhaze is a "stabilized hybrid" and not the f1
      corss that nevil produced. I gew his, and it was incredible.


Time 13:57, 16 Nov 1998
From c14

      americanpitbull - ok, so you know your shit when it comes to nutrient/light
      manipulation for potency. please, share it! much of your method will be specific
      to your strains, they do all respond differently after all [ like thai for example -
      needs a LOT more phosphorus than is usual, hence its crappyness in avg soils -
      it looks like its in a K-rich soil when the P is less than abundant...]anyways,
      lets see your methods man - information is our best weapon in the fight for
      freedom :)
      myself, i know that too much lime kills resin production, so much so that a potent
      plant can become unsmokably weak. magnesium is needed by all resin
      producing plants, but resin isn't thc is it?whatever, share it if you know it,
      the world will be a better place...

Time 12:47, 16 Nov 1998
From justice

      hey pitbull, man this place is all about sharing, and we love to get technical, so if
      you want to man, tell us your secrets, and i won't bark back, (maybe just a few
      questions though).

Time 10:24, 16 Nov 1998
From stix

      Finally pulled the plug on some nl5xhaze from sensi Ive been speaking in less
      than glowing tones about. In some respects I spoke too soon-it is ugly, loose
      buds, and almost totally unwilling to finish up, but-it is potent. The haze really
      came thru in this cross with a soaring up high, unlike Nevilles original which
      leaned much more to its NL5 parent. Good yeild too. Not as potent as original,
      not debilitating high like original, but very good haze type high. I apologize for
      being impatient and not giving this strain its proper dues in previous posts about

Time 10:12, 16 Nov 1998
From stix

      OT1>>Damn, I think Im fallin in love with one of your ladies(5ft tall, skinny, long
      buds, fall over on first toke), hope you dont mind. I find her irresistable.

Time 07:48, 16 Nov 1998

      hey ..
      can someone tell me how tall BCGA's blueberry gets...

      and will 5 gallons of soil be enough for each plant...(5 gallon bucket filled to one
      inch below top..

      will this be enough soil to bring it to mature size to harvest OUTSIDE

      and what is the average OUTDOOR yeild with this plant??

      thanks guys


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