BC Growers Association

BCG Chat Archives

Feb 1 - 15, 1999

Time 08:52, 15 Feb 1999
From Vic High

      OT1 - Oh I definately don't disbelieve you and I'm going to be keeping a closer eye on
      those deformed plants. Your hypothesis would certainly explain why it was so easy to
      virtually remove those deformities from the 3rd generation stock.

      Say I think i was having a bout of oldtimer sickness yesterday, haha. I was flipping
      through my flower photo album and my salmon orange Abutilon had normal growth, and
      the mottled one had the pale orange flowers, haha. Maybe our two plants were clones?
      haha. I lost mine when I took too long to bring them indoors one fall. I lost my
      bouganvillias as well, that was a rough winter for me. I also lost a 12 year old pinus pinea
      that I had forced to stay in juvenile growth form, it looked like a soft and long needled
      blue spruce. I also had the last of a bunch of Eucalyptus nitens(sp) and delegatensis(sp)
      that were imported by our forests ministry for pulp trials. The nitens limped through that
      winter but never recovered and eventually died the next summer. Very sad year for my
      plant collection. Our falls and winters are very unpredictable. One winter we can go
      without ever seeing a frost, the next winter we can be hit so hard that they have to call out
      the national guard to dig us out.

Time 06:11, 15 Feb 1999
From oldtimer1

      occam Thanks that was just what I needed to know!!! You didn't interrupt, this is an open
      page and thats what its for, information exchange!!! So thanks again! Vic no I don't think
      its likely to have been that. It is only apparent on the Blueberry when under low light
      conditions as soon as it has enough light to make some serious growth it disappears
      completely. The same is true with the infected cuts. I have destroyed the infected mum
      and her backup is fine. Even if you don't believe this is true keep it in mind for future
      reference. Used to have a similar Abutilon with two colour breaks of yellow and cream
      blotches, with nice pale orange pendulous flowers strange that, the borg got it!

      All the best Ot1.

Time 17:29, 14 Feb 1999
From Vic High

      OT1 - that is a strange one. We must be talking about different leaf deformities as mine
      don't seem to be transmitted through plant sap. I don't follow the cleanest of procedures
      and have never sterilized my cloning scissors. I think Jay has witnessed my rough
      techniques, haha.

      Plants that start out mottled often out grow it and clone lines that started clear of it have
      never developed the trait. I originally considered it was the result of excess inbreeding or
      colchicine treatment, with colchicine treatment being the most likely. Now I'm not so

      My current guess is that my mottling is the result of a recessive detrimental mutation
      (natural sport as you've said). I've since been able to pretty much remove it from my test
      lines by selecting against it within 2 generations. I've also noticed that the other two
      versions of blueberry that I have are more vigorous and are void of the deformities. From
      what I've since learned of DJ Short's breeding conditions, excessive inbreeding seems
      very likely.

      As for your situation, I've sifted through the literature I have on hand and can't think what
      it would be. Maybe by coincidence you picked up a virus that attacked the mottled plants
      first because of their reduced vigour?

      I used to grow several varieties of Abutilon sp.(flowering maple) One of them was a
      salmon orange variety with mottled variegated leaves. It was more petite and slow
      growing than the other varieties. My horticultural friends figured the mottling was caused
      by a virus. It never did transfer to the other varieties through my sloppy cloning practices
      come to think of it. It was probably a genetic disorder as well.

      I hope you get your's figured out, viruses are not fun. Can you remove the infected
      portion of your previously clear mom? Or take clones from uninfected portions? It would
      be a shame to loose another clone line.

Time 16:57, 14 Feb 1999
From occam

      Hi oldtimer1, sorry to break in, but here's an excerpt from "Plant Propagation for Nursery
      Growers" by Bruce Macdonald, pg. 6,: "...In many species, there is far less risk of virus
      transmission from one generation to the next with seed propagation. Some exceptions
      occur in the Rosaceae where Prunus avium (Mazzard) is known to transmit up to six
      viruses by seed, e.g., Plum Ring Spot and Cherry Mosaic Viruses."
      This suggests that your idea is at least possible. Hope this helps.

Time 14:01, 14 Feb 1999
From oldtimer1

      Vic in the past we discussed the reason for the colour break and distorted leaves. Your
      suggestion was that it was still the effect of colchicine treatment. I thought it might be a
      natural sport with a colour break as with variegated ivy or fuchsias. I have always
      believed that viruses cant be transmitted via seed the same as they aren't present in the
      meristem tip. What I have found is thatthe leaf distortion and leaf mottling can be
      transmitted via sap on the snips to another variety to both the mum and some of the
      cuttings. To me this seems like a virus I fortunately have a back up mum, also it doesn't
      seem to effect the vigour of the recipient up to now, but who knows long term. I asked a
      disease expert from the royal horticultural society and apart from fudging a bit they didn't
      seem to know if transmission was possible through seed. I thought that with your
      background you may have seen a reference somewhere. I now think it is a distinct
      possibility, it could be like the tulip virus. Thought you might be interested anyhow.

      All the best Ot1.

Time 12:24, 14 Feb 1999
From trelaway

      That's funny, we were both wrong on the alternate branching thing. makes sense now.

Time 08:31, 14 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Anon - there are two ways for me to answer your question, if your question is sincere and
your post wasn't meant to be anon, I apologise for my bluntness. However, blueberry is
not meant for unskilled growers. If you can't smell blueberries, then you are stressing
them too much. Treat those girls right will ya?

Time 07:55, 14 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Treleway - Hey I think this is what OT is saying but I haven't had my morning coffee and
my head is a little too foggy to understand him clearly. Basically I just go by leaf pattern.
Plant density (how close they are) can greatly effect the production of side branches. Also
some strains are more inclined to produce side branches than others.

Ot1 - speaking of being confused, I really didn't quiet get what you were saying about you
seed transmitted viruses. Are you referring to a past conversation that I slightly recall?
Anyway, its been a while since I really looked into plant pathology in detail but I do recall
that this would definately be a rare and unfortunate situation. Want me to dig through
some of the literature here and see what I can come up with? I'll need more info though.

As for blueberry flowering times, the source of the seed is also a big factor. Of my three
main sources, they are all different with different flowering times. The one I'm growing
now from Bubbi (Sag via ncga) are the most vigourous of the lot. They are all green
stemmed except one and they look like they will be taking the 9-10 weeks to flower. But I
agree, three different growers will often get three different results. Flowering times can
only be taken as a relative number to be used as a guideline and to compare with other

 Time 07:20, 14 Feb 1999
From Budm

Hi All, Well from the 3 Roms that were harvested a few weeks ago, yielded from the leaves and trim 1.7grams of excellent quality hash, via the Shiva-blender method, and the 10xx(100 threads per in.)screen mesh, that a good friend sent me, it took about 1.5hours,most of that time spent watching TV, while the glands settled to the bottom, but this morning it was dry and smells great, and tastes even better;-)

 Jay Im defiently going to be doing more Romberry,Its going to be my mainstay Indie,I really like the high cause its not so couch-lock, for me the first 30min are very sativa like, nice and soaring. So far it is head and shoulders above the Dutch genetics. The most impressive thing beside the end result product, is its overall look, symetry, health, lushness,and if there is a word its "stoutness" its a 4x4 monster truck, in a world of volkswagons.

Nothing against VWs Ive owned 3 and loved them.

I have a couple of questions.

1) A Peak19(Sag) has been displaying alternating phylotaxy, since its 2nd node, is it just a mutation, or a quick maturer?

2)Vic is "Moe" a retailer of BCGA seed, and does he have a URL?



Time 06:01, 14 Feb 1999

Can anyone give me info on the actual reason why blueberry got its name? I'm growin the BCGA blueberry, but so far I have not noticed any of the characteristics that are pertinant to the strain. THe odor of blueberry, and the pigmentation as harvest nears.

How does the romberry compare?

Time 03:33, 14 Feb 1999
From oldtimer1

stonerg This is not an exact science put three gardeners together and they will all disagree
on points. Here is one:- blueberry out of fifteen different females grown by me the finish
time was 7.5 to 10 weeks the bulk at 9 weeks. Part of this is my concept of what a
finished plant is and part the particular environment I grow in. I have made hundreds of
crosses and grown them out and I still occasionally get taken by surprise. But would go
with Vic that the finish time of a cross generally falls between the two parent lines but not
invariably. If you have any equatorial or tropical in the cross sometimes the combination
gives you a much longer finish time than either of the parents. I think the general rule will
apply to you!

Trelway alternate phyllotaxy is where the leaves start to come alternately on the main stem
and side branches as the plant reaches adulthood and alternate branching, the branches
that grow out from these alternate leaf nodes.As far as cuttings are concerned it is
worth keeping a couple of each plant some of my best yielders started with slightly
distorted leaves and some discolouration.

Vic I now have a suspicion that it is a virus carried through the seed that causes this
problem have you seen this mentioned anywhere else? I know that it is not supposed to be
possible with seed but I managed to transmit the prob to another type of mum in a stoned
aberration of forgetting to sterilise my snips just once between mums!!!!
All the best Ot1

Time -2:43, 14 Feb 1999
From jay

hi guys,budm thanxs for your 2 cents on te romberry,hope you try it again.our canadian genetics just seem to kick ass over anything else out there at the moment...:<).....

well what happened to our little friend vic, did his daddy find out what he was doing..?or maybe he found that little thing between his legs actually feels good when you pull on it..?hehe..stupid little shit he is...

Time 18:46, 13 Feb 1999
From trelaway

Also, could I clear up a contention between me and my friend?

Does the term 'alternate branching' mean:

a: When the main stalk fan leaves being coming out singly or

b: When nodal branching starts

Time 18:38, 13 Feb 1999
From trelaway


Thanx for the importing-a-clone-into-a-room tip.

A buddy of mine wants some blueberry and Romberry clones. I'm topping the ones I have
and was wondering which ones I should go for. I'm gonna pick eight or nine cause i
haven't sexed them yet.

I figured vigorous growers with shortest internodes and fewest growing distoritions?

Time 09:33, 13 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Here's a copy of a typical email I often recieve. I figure posting it and my responce can
benefit others and save them the time of emailing me.

On Sat, 13 Feb 1999 05:31:53 ******** wrote:
>Vic, I really enjoy your website, lots of good info. I was just wondering if you might have some of
>those blueberry seeds left I noticed on H.S.'s site that they were sold out. Do you plan on sending
>them more seeds?
>Also I would like to check out some of the surprises
>but I am kind of scetched about ordering from Moe's. I would like to procure them strait from the
>source, If you know what Im saying. Also what kind of head might one expect from the Romberry.
>That strain looks inticeing.I can be reached at *******@england.com, let me know whats up,Peace

Thanks for the interest. HS has been restocked with blueberry, romberry and has both romberry suprise and romulan suprise. The other suprises still are not ready. Despite the higher price, romberry is still by far the best value of all the bcga seeds. Blueberry is a great value if you are interested in that particular strain. For the beginning grower with a limited budget, I think romulan suprise would be a better choice than blueberry. If on a limited budget but looking for a production clone, romberry suprise may be the best choice. Although indica dominant, romulan bud has some definate sativa influence in the background, something that comes through in many of the romberry. If your preferance is for a sativa head and your feeling adventurous, then romberry suprise is sure to hold a few gems.

Just so you know, BCGA's main focus is to provide quality F1 hybrids such as romberry at reasonable prices. We hope that as time goes by and the selection improves that we will be able to increasingly pressure other breeders and seed merchants to lower their prices. The suprises were a screw up and I was about to toss the seeds but so many protested that we decided it would be better to share. Please don't think these F2's or variable outcome seeds is what BCGA is all about.

As for buying direct, that unfortunately not an option. I'm pissed at what Moe did with the retail prices and I wouldn't buy from him either. He's running out of time to correct the situation. Other seed merchants that have expressed an interest in BCGA genetics have tried to screw us and we figure if they try to screw us they will do the same with our customers. HS is a very upstanding place to do business. They have treated me and the BCGA customers very well, so you can feel comfortable dealing with them. Just this last week they were completely restocked with blueberry, romberry, romberry suprise and romulan suprise. They will also follow my retail pricing guidlines. This is why they have an exclusive on romberry and any other future BCGA premium seed lines. It's looking more and more like they will have an exclusive on ALL BCGA seedlines period unless the other seed merchants collect some ethics and clean up their acts.

Take care, Vic

Time 07:35, 13 Feb 1999
From oldtimer1

In an experimentI recently ran I used 15 fairly well matched cuttings of H3 well
rooted through in 4 inch sq pots done in three batches. { H3 is a selected mum from a
super sk x Hz made about 9 years ago}
They were potted on into 4 litre final pots with full strength organic compost, the first
were given 15 days of 18/6the second were given 7 days 18/6 and the third given
no veg at all. The firstgroup at 15 days were fully rooted through and there was a
fine cobwebbing of fine feeder roots on the exterior of the rootball, the second group at 7
days had roots through to the pot and down to the drainage holes but hadn't formed any
fine feeder roots.

After three weeks of slow dryingthe first group the results per plant were :-
57.9 g, 66.1 g, 66.9 g, 68 g and 75.6 g.

The second group was :-
31.3 g, 32 g, 42 g, 42.6 g and 44.3 g.

The lastgroup was :-
22.7 g, 24.3 g, 24.4 g, 26.3 g and 27.2 g.

So you can see that the 5 fully rooted cuttings yielded more than the other 10 together.
The lighting was at 50 w per sq ftand the plants at 2.4 per sq ft. Also the smaller
were raised to equalise the light on them as much as possible. They were harvested
between week 8 and 9.5 funnily enough the small ones were ready on week 8 and the
largest at the end, The conclusion I draw from this is that when growing in a soil/peat
based medium, the state of rooting through in the final pot before flowering can
affect the yield and health of the plants quite dramatically. Any comments or feed back?

As far as some of the comments about the history and genetics of certain plants there
seems to be a lot of bullshit going down here and completely irrelevant.I don't
know much about genetics but Iíve been growing cannabis a long time. In the 60ís we
brought seed back from Afghanistan and it was a pretty mixed bunch. The shorter, what
you might now call indica type was what was used to make bulk cheap grade hash for
export and depending on the valley it came from had a finish time 8.5 to 10 weeks and a
height of 5 ft to 8 ft but all wide dark leafed. Higher up the slopes nearer the snow line
was the wild indigenous sativa type which was rubbed to make finger hash for local
consumption. All these were fully seeded and being a wind pollinated plant to some degree
mongrels. The high slope C sativa L types survived via nature being able to grow through
the snow and stand frost and are also common in Pakistan kashmir northern India Nepal
and Butan just below the snow line. The short wide leaved phenotype [different with every
farmer] is rogued for slim leaved plants and selected for large resinous colas so all this
business of knowing an Afghan phenotype is a load of cobblers its just a mongrel strain
that someone has selected. I suspect that that it was a fairly resent import as it wouldn't
have been grown if it wasn't for the demand for hash in the west, whatever a Sadu
certainly wouldn't smoke it if there was real Afgani available.

All the best. Ot1.

Time 09:27, 13 Feb 1999
From Vic High

OT1 - it's good to see you.

Terminator - thanks, gives me an excuse to delete the troll posts.

Time 15:45, 12 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Try BG seeds? Been there, done that, and out of respect for Soul we'll leave it alone.

But since you asked about romberry again, let me see if we can bring you up to speed
because this will be on your final exam. If flowering period is determined by basic
medellian genetics (dominant/recessive alleles) then romberry would take either the same
length of time to flower as the romulan or the blueberry. It doesn't. Not sure how to make
this clearer, maybe your buddy Soul can help you understand it better.

As for how do I know that I'm growing pure romulan? I don't. What I do know is that
Emery and the other Vancouverites that smoked my bud said that it is the same as
Romulan Joe's bud. I can only assume that my clone originated with romulan Joe but who
knows. What I do know is that mine is a 10 weeker and it is true breeding. But hey, don't
take my word for it being true breeding, ask the dozens of growers out there that have
grown romberry. The results and feedback have been remarketly uniform indicating that it
is a true F1 hybrid. F1 hybrids can only come from parents that are true breeding inbred
lines. Therefore my version of Romulan must be true breeding.

Now if it isn't romulan it is the mother of romulan. Common sense dictates this. This plant
is true breeding and has the vigour of a hybrid. This is not something found in modern
genetics. My source for this romulan clone has been growing it for over 6 years now and I
think this even predates Emery's first mention of it.

Afghani you say? close but an old long lost california blue indica would be closer. Ancestry
is speculation on all fronts but here's a quote from the most knowledgeable responce I've
heard to date:

"The first Cal Indy from a cross between two kinds of kush plants, one grown in Hawaii,
the other grown in California. It's original genes are from some place nearer to china, than

There is definately something else in the mix other than afghani or kush when looking at
flwoer period and internode length. The romberry's are more like the kushes (blueberry
included) than the romulan. However, most of the first romulan backcrosses have romulan
internodes. Say why don't you use your punnet square and tell me what this means :)

If your romulan is not a 10 weeker then it is probably a romulan/white widow hybrid from
Emery that he calls romulan. No need to feel bad though, it still produces very fine buds.

BTW Where's that URL? That's the best info you brought to the table, lets not drop it.

PUD_420 - please don't take offence to what I add and don't add to the archives. Quick
messages and notes of support are appreciated at the present but of little value to someone
sifting through the archives of the future.

Time 14:07, 12 Feb 1999
From Coolman

" If you grow enough, you may approach phenotypic ratios of 9/16 short dark, 3/16 tall
dark, 3/16 short light, and 1/16 tall light."

Not so hard after Mr. Soul figured it out for you, was it.

Also, where do you get that "The FACT that romberry's flowering period IS between that
of it's parents clearly shows that this isn't the case."Blueberry flowering time is between
45-55 days...55 days is like 8 weeks man.Since Romberry is a8 weeks flowerer
then how does that prove your point.Also where do you get that Romulan takes
10-11 weeks to flower???Its an afghan--you trying to tell me that an afghan takes 10-11
weeks to flower???Sure doesnt even sound like you are growing Romulan.

Time 13:09, 12 Feb 1999
From Vic High

"Please show via a symbolic Punnett Square how you obtain your statement about the
Romulan Blueberry cross flowering times."

Clearly you are trying a shot gun method of trying to screw with me or clearly don't
understand the subject upon which your challanging me.

A punnet square is dependant upon the assumption that you are dealing with discrete
dominant/recessive genes. The FACT that romberry's flowering period IS between that of
it's parents clearly shows that this isn't the case. This ties into your Sygnorzty, Szasz et al
observations so like I said earlier, if you want an honest discussion on this, CUT THE

BTW where the URL for us to verify your findings?

Time 12:59, 12 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Afghani q? - Ho Humm
cross could be called many things, hypothetical being one, heterozygous being another.

You could get any combination of short and tall and light or dark. It's all based on
probabilities. Some would be tall and dark, some would be short and dark, some would be
tall and light and some would be short and light.

If you grow enough, you may approach phenotypic ratios of 9/16 short dark, 3/16 tall
dark, 3/16short light, and 1/16 tall light.

Time 12:32, 12 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Stonerg and others. I don't mind my words and ideas being challanged. I'm human and
capable of making mistakes as are the rest of us. By having our ideas challanged we can
learn new concepts faster. I welcome these open challanges, but I am disgusted when
people bring bullshit and lies to the table.

Please - cut the crap and come clean if you want some honest answers to your questions.
You are obviously someone with an agenda and a dislike for me. If you want me to treat
your questions with respect, do the same with mine. Most of your questions are BS or
elementary but one was thought provoking and had the makings of a great discussion.
Leave the crap at the door and let's talk.

Time 11:03, 12 Feb 1999
From stonerg

Sorry, please, I cannot allow you to waste any more of my time. It IS indeed obvious to me now that you have an agenda. Thanks for the answer, Vic.

Time 19:09, 11 Feb 1999
From unnamed source

Please,take your bullshit questions out of here.If you want to bullshit around go to http://www.cannabinoid.com/wwwboard/breeding/index.shtml

You da man Vic

Time 18:51, 11 Feb 1999
From Please

Vic, I noticed that you didn't answer the following questions:

Please show via a symbolic Punnett Square how you obtain your statement about the Romulan Blueberry cross flowering times.

Which one of your book authors (the two tome authors you said I should read) said this:"Mendel was the first to correctly hypothesize that heredity depended on contributions from both parents and that specific characteristics from each parent were passed on, rather than being blended together in the offspring"

How about a extremely simple genetics problem to show that you even know the rudiments of genetics?

Assume the following is true.

In Afghan pot,dark green color is dominant over light green color and short plant stature is dominant over tall plant stature. Cross two heterozygious dark green, short statured Afghans together. What kind of cross is that and what would be the resulting phenotypes?

These questions should take about 5 minutes to answer.


Odd post from you. A day ago you asked a first day genetics class question and today you can give genetics lessons....amazing

I did a Lexus search for alleles and flowering of cannabis.

There are at least 50 entries and a good one is "Phytochrome gene in regulation of Florescence and Quiescence in Urticales Cannabacae (Cannabis sativa L.) Sygnorzty, Szasz et al. According to the authors, there are only 2 alleles concerning Florescence time (phyA3-loci-DO158 and loci-D246) and Quiescence (pge-loci-t46 and loci-t147) Its a fascinating article on the production of hemp seed and in quite detailed in the formation on the cannabis sativa plant from initiation of flowering, through flowering and the final quiescence of the flowering cycle.

StonerG: I'm curious how you arrive at your assumptions of 10 genes for flowering times?

Maybe you could also explain why my statement concerning Vics answer: "The rule is that normally the flowering period is NOTbetween the 2 parents but the flowering period of one or the other.There are a few exceptions when the flowering perod would be between the two parents flowering times but....those are the exceptions not the rule." is incorrect.

Are you saying that co-dominance is the rule instead of being the exception as I said?

Could you back that up please?

Since you seem to be quite the geneticist now, maybe you could answer the questions I posed to Vic.

Time 14:46, 11 Feb 1999
From stonerg

Please, please.Why attempting to discredit Vic? It is clear that either: 1) you are
stupid 2) you have some agena.
Ihave one problem for you. Cannabis may have 100,000 genes or so(?).Let's
assume conservatively that 10 of these genes are responsible for flowering time. Do your
damn pundit square now. I dare you. Don't forget to list along the top and side all of the
possible combinations of alleles that the two parents could give. Hopefully, this will keep
you busy.It is a far, far more accurate representation of the problem that using a
single allele as you suggested.
That's above and beyond the fact that since Mendel (a century ago) humans have learned
that certain alleles do in fact "blend" and this is known as codominance or incomplete
dominance depending on how it happens. AB blood is a good example. Your mom is type
A, dad is B. AB is different from both. Snapdragons work well too. A true red snapdragon
bred with true white gives pink. The next generation might return to red, though- Moving
on, I was planning to cross my durban (sensi via w.s.) and hawaiin (via Marc
E)what do people think about this? I haven't finished any of the strains yet (inside,
five weeks). When the hell do you suppose a Hawaiian would finish outside? I wonder if
the durban would be enough of a positive influence. I just wanted to stay sativa.Vic, I have
the utmost respect for what you're doing and of course appreciate your response.
Someday, when I get stupid enough to try the mail again, I will be asking HS for for
Romberry, which pretty much sounds like my indica choice of the future. Concluding,
genetics are necessarily complex for successful evolution and species survival.The
reason I asked in the first place is to find out not what I could theorize but what other
growers have actually experienced.(And to hear Vic's theorizing, because the man
actually learned it somewhere (take a class ,please.))
The proof's in the pudding, please. Next fall, I hope to have plenty of durban hybrid

Time 10:45, 11 Feb 1999
Fromstoner g (<a href="mailto:gthang5@yahoo.com">gthang5@yahoo.com</a>)

Thanks for the info. Vic, you da man and your answers have proved it to me. I'm not bio freak, but I assumed that the trait was poly genetic (multiple genes) and that these alleles, in interaction, could possibly indeed "blend" through what is know as incomplete dominance or also codominance. Whoever scorched you obviously needs to know half as much as they think they do.

Genetics are necessarily complex and relatively unpredictable in practice. I was hoping to get 1) Vic's insight or anybody else who has progressed past Medellian genetics (it's been a century at least!) 2) Anybody who might have tried this with Durban to see what happened to them. Specifically, I am thinking perhaps Durban (WS) X Hawaiian (Marc E) but I haven't tried either yet (I'm inside right now, 80 wsf, five weeks yeeehah!) Anybody with outdoor experience with either strain, please share and I would be most indebted (though, It may be many years' worth of legislation before I repay)

Vic-- once I leave the F1 generation, all bets are off, yes?

Time 10:40, 11 Feb 1999
From Please

Vic, you assume too much and incorrectly. I dont dislike you, I just think you know nothing about genetics and your statements support that.

I assume nothing about marijuana flowering period. Please show via a symbolic Punnett Square how you obtain your statement about the Romulan Blueberry cross flowering times.

Which one of your book authors (the two tome authors you said I should read) said this: "Mendel was the first to correctly hypothesize that heredity depended on contributions from both parents and that specific characteristics from each parent were passed on, rather than being blended together in the offspring"

How about a extremely simple genetics problem to show that you even know the rudiments of genetics?
Assume the following is true.

In Afghan pot,dark green color is dominant over light green color and short plant stature is dominant over tall plant stature. Cross two heterozygious dark green, short statured Afghans together.
What kind of cross is that and what would be the resulting phenotypes?

You must admit, thats a really simple problem. Surely that should be piece of cake to someone such as you. Waiting for your answers to the above questions

Time 08:34, 11 Feb 1999
From Vic

Please - you are basing your comments on your emotions (dislike for me) and some overly
simplified assumptions. Mendal's work was important for creating a fundamental
understanding of genetics. However it's also lacking much. Pea pod colour and flowering
period are vastly different traits on vastly different plants. (never tried to smoke a pea,
haha). Mendal was lucky to have played with a plant as simple as the garden pea or he may
have never reached the conclusions he had.

Your biggest erroneous assumption is that cannabis flowering period is controlled by a
single typical (ressessive/dominant) pairing of alleles. Do a test cross and you'll find that
they are not.

Blueberry is 6-7 weeks, romulan is 10-11 weeks, romberry (the F1 hybrid) is about 8
weeks. This is the norm in Cannabis.

It's good to see you reading and getting to learn this stuff. Mendal is a great place to begin.
These books will help take you to the next level.

Concepts of Genetics - Klug & Cummings
Evolutionary Biology - Douglas J. Futuyma

There is much more but this is a good start. When you done these let me know and I'll
help you get to the next level after that.

Time 08:17, 11 Feb 1999
From Vic

Munty - I agree, when I come across such pathetic souls as this one, I feel lucky to lead
as rich a life as I do. It's easy to take things for granted until some little disfunctional boy
reveals how unlucky others are. Imagine to be so mad about something or someone and
only be able to cower in the shadows. Me, if some pisses me off I tell them to their face.
The actions of the kid stirring the shit here obviuosly fits that of a young boy that is always
picked on by his peers and is sexually molested by some male role model in his life. A very
sad story I suspect.

Easiest way to stop his page transfers or trash any of his posts is to simply plaintext the
page. All you do is type plaintext but surround it by < > brackets. Anyone finding his shit
here is encouraged to do this, please. If nothing else it will keep the kid busy enough to not
bother our other private page.

Treleway - good idea to always treat all incoming plants to kill pests. Safers is usually all
you need but it does have the drawback that it doesn't always kill all the eggs. Best way to
protect yourself from these eggs is to either quarantine the incoming plants and spray 3 - 4
times over a period of 2 weeks, or to simply resort to the dreaded systemic.

All - As someone with an environmental concience, I believe in using environmentally
friendly approaches whenever possible. However there are environmental costs to most
activities so sometimes a judgement call needs to be made as to which method is the best
over the long haul.

For instance, take my battle with the mites. Because I couldn't control humidity and
because of the jungle nature of it, I was unable to irradicate the mites after a few months
of constant sprayings. I even alternated between soap (Trounce), SM90, and neem oil.
Tearing down and sterilizing the room was not a practicle option. First, all this spraying
wiped out my biological critters leaving my garden defenseless to invasions of other pests.
Second, there is an environmental cost to the making and transport of these organic
"environmentally friendly" pesticides. Finally, you always need to take into account the
added cost of these products over the long haul. There is an environmental cost to us
working and earning a living. For most of us there is an environmental price tag on every
dollar we earn. Therefore, if you pay twice as much for the environmentally friendly paper
(for lack of a better example) is there a net environmental savings? Take cars for instance
and say you want to scap the old cunker for a new gas saving model. There is an
environmental cost in scrapping teh old car and an environmenatl cost in manufacturing the
new one. Then there is an environmental benefit in the reduced exhaust emmisions. The
trick is to determine what the net environmental benefits are. Most of teh environmental
hype ignores this and paints the picture more black and white than it really is.

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes using the systemic pesticide is the bost
environmentally responsible choice. Treleway, what I sometimes will do is spray with soap
to kill the adults and then the next day spray with teh systemic to make sure all that hatch
from eggs will die as well. I don't have the luxery of a quarantine room at this point.

Time 08:09, 11 Feb 1999
From Please

Vic said to Stonerg's question:

"To answer your question, yes in most cases you can predict the F1
offspringflowering period to be somewhere between the flowering periods of teh two
P1 parents.However there are exceptions so don't bank on it."

Vic, you sure don't know much about genetics, do you???? What you say is exactly
WRONG!!!The rule is that normally the flowering period is NOTbetween the 2
parents but the flowering period of one or the other.There are a few exceptions when
the flowering perod would be between the two parents flowering times but....those are the
exceptions not the rule.

Vic, before you give any more bad advice about genetics, please read up a little on Mendel
and genetics.The following site is a good place to start:

At that site you will find that your observation to Stonerg is incorrect--that Mendel
discovered hundreds of years ago what you said is wrong:

"This observation that there are traits that do not show up in offspring plants with
 intermediate forms wascritically important because the leading theory in biology at the
 time was that inherited traits blend fromgeneration to generation."

Check out Mendels pea experiment--if what you said is correct then his pea's colors would
have been yellowish-green, not the yellow and green that his experiment showed to be the

Vic, spend a little time and educate yourself about genetics--then you will actually know
what you are doing......

Time -3:45, 11 Feb 1999
From trelaway

what's a good plan to treat a rockwool clone yer bringing into a bug free room. I was thinking of just dunking the whole thing in a bucket of safer's/water. thoughts?

Time 20:37, 10 Feb 1999
From Munty (<a href="mailto:Munty@indiasite.com">Munty@indiasite.com</a>)

Hi all,

It's a shame to see that someone is so socally disfunctional so as to have to try and spoil things for other people just to get a reaction...it must be so lonely to live like that. Anyway is there anything I can do to remove the damage done to the page? I saw some reference from you Vic to Budm about this.... how bout fiiling me in someone?

many thanks


Time 18:09, 10 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Stonerg - Hey, first tip when using this page is to ditch all double spaces, haha. Good to
see ya. To answer your question, yes in most cases you can predict the F1 offspring
flowering period to be somewhere between the flowering periods of teh two P1 parents.
However there are exceptions so don't bank on it.

Time 12:07, 10 Feb 1999
From stonerg (<a href="mailto:gthang5@yahoo.com">gthang5@yahoo.com</a>)

Hello all. I am a small timer who generally lurks but very much appreciates what goes on here. Here's my question for the experts: How well can I predict finishing time within the F1 generation? In other words, if I cross something with Durban, can I predict more or less that it would finish at the halfway point of the others' finishing times? Or anything at all? I posted a while ago, didn't seem to take. Hope I'm not being repetitive and thanks for the knowledge all0. Peace!

Time 06:19, 10 Feb 1999
From Budm

Hi All,

Jay because it was a first time grow I coppied as much of the methods that I could find at BCGA page. The pots were 2gal the SuperSoil was only diffrent in a couple of ways I added about 20% wormcastings, and I could not find "Fritted Trace Minerials" They were topped once at about 35 days, then placed under 400hps 12/12 at 50 days, the yield was just over 6oz dried, one cola was about 11" x 3" and 20grams dried, all in all a gteat first grow, only 3 ladies but alot was learned. Now the Rom has been in glass jars"ala DJ Shorts cure method" for 13 days and is tasting so very nice,like fruity/hash ;-) Hope this helps.

Naughty check the "Budm" post below for AK info ;-)

OT1 Thanks for the help.


Time 19:16, 9 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Hey Jay, ya gotta feel sorry for the little goof. He's so lame that that he can't come up with
a name of his own. He too insecure to say what his beef is. The poor little fuck just
cowers in the shadows stirring shit because he's too dumb to do any different. At least we
have the guts to do it up front and in your face. Poor little computer geek, haha. Didn't
realize how lucky we are to have real lives, haha. Take care bro and have fun.

Time 18:12, 9 Feb 1999
From the real jay

oh you sure are trying to be funny now arent you you fucking little twit!!!

LMFAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br>

Time 16:26, 9 Feb 1999
From jay

hi gang! budm please tell me about your yields with the romberry you grew with the 400 watt light..?you used the supersoil recipe from the bcga page...?and what sort of pot size...?did you top or just let grow on its own......?

this little kid thinks hes pretty funny using his dads computer during the day doesnt he,haha...to bad he doesnt realize that the joke is really on him,hehe lets all laugh together at him,mke him feel important seeing as he has no life,haha....LMFAO!!!!

Time 08:50, 9 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Shoulda been terminator-wannabe, you stole that name from a friend. Too dumb to come
up with your own?

No problem Budm, tell anyone you know that comes here. We'll delete this coward into
oblivion. Until then we can just keep the messages to the email. :)

Time 08:42, 9 Feb 1999

See little boy terminator, you can't stop it. Cat got your tongue coward? You need a life
and something other than your palm for a girlfriend, haha. Whatsa the matter, wife still
broken? LMAO you small minded little twit.

Time 07:50, 9 Feb 1999
From Budm

 Hi all, Vic thanks for teaching me a/b the ptext thing ;-)

The Super Crystaly really is packing on the weight, and smells just like a grapefruit. The Aloha/Posi NL is a amazing sight, looks as white as any WW, and the 14" colas are truly a sight to see. The jack flash sat dom is ripining nice this one ladie should yield about 200grams dried! Its a Monster 16" x 7" colas! Alohas/Posis BigBud is not that impressive, no lowere branches snapping on this one, but the colas are nice and frosty, but smell funky, like old tennis shoes!

The Peak19s and WWxCalOrange(Ingmar) were topped at about 12-14" and 9-11 nodes, The P19s have great node spacing about 3/4"-1".

Naughty the AK x NL9 is doing great 9" tall with 8 nodes and the AKxAK sat/dom are about 8" tall with 9 nodes. The AKxNL9, one would think would have shorter node spacing thaen the AK sat doms, pre haps they are a throw back in the genes. Well thats it for now. Be Safe everyone.

Time 20:20, 8 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Child - yes you who stole the Terminator alias. You can't stop the flow of info. Check the
archives, my comments to you are imortalized! Get a life you pathetic coward.

Time 16:30, 8 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Lady J - ya gotta flower that chemo clone asap, I hope you recieved Chemo4. These
are unbelievable!! In 2 gal pots, I flowered many sweet tooth, romulan, romberry,
romulan strawberry blonde, washington, BD's white weed, blueberry, and aeric's
cali-o on Jan 1st. The cali-o is a first timer in my flower room, impressive, and the
aroma is tantalyzing. It was to be the main attraction in it's debut. Although too tiny
for my liking teh washington looked finished so I decided to harvest yesterday to see
if quality will be improved over past showings. It has never done much in the past
after this time period anyway.

Then on Jan 15th (24 days ago) I added UBC1 and the two chemo seedlings to the
flower room. UBC1 looks to be a slow starter but the chemo is amazing. They have
the biggest and frostiest buds of the bunch. Each was pinched at 12" and has two
main colas. At least the top 10" of each cola is filled in to a width of 2". Keep in mind
that I'm growing organically in soil and under relatively low light levels. Chemo4 is
much more tighter and frostier than Chemo3. Chemos 1 & 2 are males being held in
reserve with resin covering pollen calyxes and parts of some leaves. I hope they
finish as strong as they started and that the bud is as impressive as it looks. This
could end up being the most exiting addition to the garden since the introduction of
romulan. This chemo is supposed to be a product of UBC research that utilized
cholchicine. Although it looks nothing like anything I've grown before (well grapefruit
looks like a cali-o with a little chemo), I was expecting something quite different, like
say polyploidy or deformities or ???. Well I'll keep ya all posted.

To the infantile twit that feels that everyone should think as they do. GET A FUCKING
LIFE!! If you have a problem with BB leave me out of it! I will decide who my friends are
and who I'll do business with, and no one else! This is called freedom of choice! Ever here
of it? It's the same concept that all pot smoking activists are fighting for! Freedom to live
their own lives. If you don't approve of this concept move to China.

If I didn't exercise my right to freedom of choice I wouldn't have ended up with some
special genetics such as the chemo I reported about above. I wouldn't be in the position of
preserving the sweet tooth line if Breeder Steve does in fact pack it in on the breeding
front. I wouldn't be in the position of creating a true F1 hybrid of romulan and grapefruit.
I expect this to meet or exceed the standard set by romberry. I won't be doing the
expected and raising prices as the seedline gains in popularity.

Time 01:40, 8 Feb 1999
From oldtimer1

Just popped by to say high I'm realy busy at the mo and havent dropped of the web. Ot1.

Time 11:17, 4 Feb 1999

funk, it's just some kid playing games with his new html toy. we "plaintext" the page to keep the script somewhat intact while turning off the code.

no worries...just some kid with too much time on his hands and no bud to toke.

Time 07:21, 4 Feb 1999
From funkdified

I haven't posted here before, but I usually come and read some of the excellent discussions that take place. I am taking an unwilling haitaius(sp?) from growing right now, but I still like to update my knowledge of the herb. The reason I am posting is because when I have come to this site lately, I, once the site is loaded, get automatically transferred to the Kings County Narcotics control site in Washington. Has this happened to anyone else?

Just curious.

Time 20:56, 2 Feb 1999
From O.M.

I will have some nice input soon about the Kong Clones, they are behaving better than
the mother, After turning the light to 12/12 they were 1 foot long, they are now 3 feet and
growing. It must be the root system that is working better, the mother is rootbound since
a while yet,

Time 17:09, 1 Feb 1999
From Dr. Evil

Budm: you (should) have mail. Resent the attachment. Got yours earlier and everything's fine. I'll write in more detail a little later.

Time 13:00, 1 Feb 1999
From Frenchie

3 weeks to go with the Kong, i am not impressed so far, but it can change within the last month. I have another mystery strain beside it that is doing the same amount of budzz. The mytery strain will be stopping flower production soon but the Kong is still growing. As to the 4 pounds by 1000w. It could be acheive only if you find the right mother in those unstable seeds. They say it does really pack up in the last 3 weeks, i hope so because so far it is a normal yield. But 4 pound by 1000w ? more like 2-3 pounds.

Time 12:30, 1 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Budm - my observations with Blossom Blood are unchanged from my last post on
it. It definately doesn't hurt. In soil I think I see some improvement but nothing that
is significant. I hear it kicks in hydro but no first hand info there.

Time 12:18, 1 Feb 1999
From Budm

Hi All
DrE Yours was finnaly recieved, did you get my reply?
Vic- Any opinion on the BlossomBlood, hype or helper?
Any one ever see a seedling start alternating nodes from #2 on up? Afoaf has a
Peak19 thats doing that. Ist it a mutation, or a fast progressor?

Time 10:13, 1 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Figment - There are various "good guys" to deal with depending on your location. Your best lighting deals will come from the comercial lighting stores. The online buynsell also often has used grow equipmernt. Maybe Jay will tell us the addy, I don't know it.

Ok, this is my second try with the SOL seedstock. For the second straight try, the romulan/strawberry blonde is performing well and producing nice nugs. For the second straight time the sweet tooth buds have been stretched and unimpressive looking. I was expecting something between blueberry and grapefruit but that hasn't been the case, grapefruit buds are far better looking. This could easily be a result of my lower light levels because apparently the buds still smokes up nicely.

A strange one in the garden has been the UBC Chemo. These started flowering under 18 hours of light when they became rootbound but are also loaded in crystals, males included. They have been in teh flower room for two weeks and boy are these leafy colas filling in with loads of calyx. The cola leaves are single bladed with purple petioles. The auto flowering has me worried but all clones have rooted and reverted to veg state.

I have added two more strains from Dave Freedom to the flower room to test out. Last summer I flowered his AK47 but they were all hermie and not worth the space they took up. I know a seed dealer has little control over the genetics he is given to sell, so hopefully his superkush and kush special will be better quality. I hope so, Dave is a generous and good natured fella. I would like to see him do well.

Out of 5 ncga blue widow seeds I ended up with 2 girls. One g13/nl out of five was a female. These also went into the flower room and all males tossed.

Time 04:03, 1 Feb 1999
From figment (figment@mypad.com)

Just wanted to say hello, and also compliment all the folks who put together that
amazing resource over at the BCGA. (That's you I guess, huh Vic?) I'm new here
on the left coast and I must admit that the smoke here is comparable to that in
Calgary ;-p Vancouver is a great town. I love having a seed shop right in the
neighborhood! However the prices are higher here. 400W HPS kit (ballast, cord,
etc.) Van.-$171.00+14%, Calgary-$129.99+7% (The lights didn't make the move,
but have a good home) Any suggestions on where to pick up where I left off?
Maybe even used equipment?
Post or email, many thanks.
*Re-Legalize Cannabis*

Time -3:29, 1 Feb 1999
From Dr. Evil

Budm: tried again, see if this mail made it. I don't know what the problem is. I was thinking my old mail provider was the problem, now not sure (4 attempts from new mail provider). Cross your fingers...

Dr. E

Time 15:52, 31 Jan 1999
From oldtimer1

budm its the nickname of the place where it was grown, not the white stuff. The real name would bring attention to the area if you get my meaning. The picks were to show how one type of sat fills out the buds. Ot1

Time 11:14, 31 Jan 1999
From Dr. Evil

budm: you (should) have mail. The cyber gods have been losing most of my
outgoing mail.

Dr. Evil

Time 11:09, 31 Jan 1999
From dep mode

Heya Vic, would like to get in touch.

Time 10:15, 31 Jan 1999
From Vic High

Whew - speaking from personal experience? One of the first tools employed by
the cops is to spread paranoia and distrust. Kinda fits your actions now doesn't it?
Why don't you get the guts to just come right out and say what you're trying to
accomplish here? Or are you as we suspect and just a bored and immature soul?
Too inept to be a cop.

Time 15:15, 29 Jan 1999

trel, you could goto this site and check it all out... quite abit there worth reading.


Time 15:07, 29 Jan 1999
From trelaway

Hey vic, when you clean up the crap (again) can you leave the 'by Tony Serra' post? I wanna read it later when the screen isn't screwed up thanx.

BTW, I guess it's obvious but DD2's post below wasn't posted here by him.

Time 10:52, 29 Jan 1999
From Budm

Hi all, Vic, Do you have an opinion one way, or the other yet as to the effectivness in soil application of 'Blossom Blood" Just wondering,no controll to go by,so I need to ask.

OT1, Ive had a look at the latest pictures that u have posted. Why did one pic get tagged "Charley Hill" is that because of all of the glisiting whitish tricomes?

Dr "Heads Up"

Have a great weekend everyone;-)

Time 06:21, 29 Jan 1999
From Butch

Has anybody else been reading about the guys on Cannabis.com that have been having there computers busted into and files wiped? Is that possible here?I mean I remember when guys were implanting programs that would tell who you were and stuff on different places at Hempbc. I guess what I am asking is this a safe place to come and read posts. Im pretty worried after readng the stuff over at Cannabis.com I like to hear any comments. thanks

Time 18:10, 28 Jan 1999
From Vic High

Mota - I look forward to hearing your critique, that sounds like a good mix.

Budm - Don't resond bro, it's not worth it. You Too terminator, please just silently
wipe the page.

Budm, don't get me wrong, I think that site is an excellent idea. I look forward to
seeing where it will go in the long run and your right, it could become a great
compliment to the greenman's report. One site to judge the seed delivery and
another to simply judge the breeders. Judging 10 - 20 seedlings would be a must
though, but we all need to start somewhere.

Time 16:32, 28 Jan 1999
From Mota

Vic, The Fig Widow will be harvested this weekend. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Time 08:45, 28 Jan 1999
From Budm

Hi All, I wish the BS would stop! It serves no pourpose at all.

DocE You have mail!

Vic, Your right about your opinion a/b that site, the 1-3 bean grow-outs are not fair.

OT2 Can you plese describe the set up, utilizing the "Aquarium Stor Protein Skimmer Ozone" Im a Reef Tank hobbiest, and a protien skimmer will reduce the routine water changes, by removing food/feces waste from the water, and will generaly increse animal vigor, through better water quality. I to have noticed, that As soon as your out of the "Grow Shop" arena, prices are more reasonable. Some hobbys are purely for the fun of it, and have no rationalization as to the money the hobby may save you in the long run. Hence that hobby has its followers not able to indure trhe higher retail markup. It would take a lot of hobby aquarium fish to fill a plate!lol;-))


From Vic High

Thanks Terminator.

STM - I don't live in Vancouver, I just head over now and then. I definately don't have the time to hire my self out as a Tour guide. We could meet for a weekend and I could show you around though? I hope you don't mind, the only peeler bars I know of have girls on stage and not guys, except those drunk yanks that are about to be tossed, haha.

MG, wow! Hope that's not really you hanging amongst these twits. I'm lucky, daddy's kicked them off his computer by the time I get home, haha.

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