BC Growers Association


BCG Chat Archives

December 15 - 31, 1998


Time 08:41, 26 Dec 1998
From Vic High

      Hey I hope everyone had a great day yesterday. Now to look forward to New
      Years Eve! That's my favourite holiday, haha.

      Great haze info, keep it coming, haha. I may one day create a high intensity
      section to the grow room to support some haze breeding. Ot1, I hope our friend
      comes through with the haze seeds, actually I'm sure he will in one way or
      another. I doubt they will be lost on him.

      I think for the next while I'll be getting seeds instead of money for the seeds that I
      send HS. I'm looking for strains to add to my seed collection for future projects. It
      would probably be several years before I would ever get around to them, but you
      never know what is around the political corner, so I figured I would learn from the
      mistakes of the 70s and 80s and get the genetics while they are available. I've
      been concentrating on pure strains, but am open to suggestions. Maybe these
      haze should be another addition? I've been considering a good white widow line
      and ak47 line (even though they are hybrids) but have been wondering if they are
      more hype than substance. All that HPS breeding over in Holland has me
      concerned as well, but maybe a couple of generations of MH lighting could help
      reverse the negative effects? I've also been keeping an eye open for a pure high
      end afghani but haven't heard too much about it. Another item I would like to find
      is a real durban poison and not that BS that holland sells, but a real sativa. Don't
      get me wrong, I think holland has done us all a great service in keeping some of
      the genetics alive and available. For the record, I too like to let the soil get fairly
      dry between waterings and I'm happy when they start going through lots (like a
      gallon/day/10 gal pot), it means I'm getting good growth. I use pot weight to
      decide when to water. When they get too dry, I usually water twice as OT1 does,
      making sure at least the first watering is with warmer water that has been sitting

      All this watering discussion reminds me of a humorous situation I was part of
      recently. A friend was trying out my method of growing using the soil mix in 10 gal
      pots. To speed things up we took the gamble of planting small 6" clones directly
      into the 10 gal pots. I then warned him to not over water and said that I sometimes
      leave them for a couple of weeks before watering again. Well he mixed the soil
      dryer than I do so the top layer of soil (where the roots still were) dryed out faster
      than normal but because of the size of the pots, the bottom remained moist. He
      kept using the moisture meter and it kept saying that the soil was moist enough so
      he never questioned my advice about not watering. Well about two - three weeks
      later he started complaining how slow they were growing (actually they stopped)
      so I went to check on them. Well one look and I could see they were drought
      stressed. Lifted the pots and they were feather weight, haha. We spent that night
      and the next day pouring water on the girls and within a day, light green growth
      started appearing on all the growth tips. Each 10 gal pots took about 3-4 gallons
      of water to bring it back up to proper moisture! I just thought it was humorous
      because my "don't over love the plants and leave them alone" speech backfired,

      From what I've seen of Breeder Steve's work, I would doubt whether his Shisk
      contained ruderalis but I agree, it should still be investigated.

Time 07:06, 26 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Thanks everyone !!!

Time 03:49, 26 Dec 1998
From oldtimer1

      I don't have any pure haze mums any more I lost them 8 or 9 years ago to a Borg
      attack. This is a point worth making all the sat vars that I have tried are very
      susceptible to the two spot mite. So as far as growing sats are concerned a clean
      house is needed. I did haveloads of h seeds but over the years have given
      them away and Iím sorry to say no one made a go of it with them. In our climate it
      needs dedication and to be a good gardener to boot. To grow with tropicals
      indoors and under lighting, well totally different techniques are needed but to my
      mind they are worth it. This year I have passed on most of what I had left of my h
      seed stock to a friend and if he is successful the strain may carry on we will see. I
      do have some mums from a series of crosses made between h and ss of which hd
      is one, its my fav smoke and takes 9 to 10 w on 12 h. I have great respect for
      Nevil and if the fastest is 14 weeks there isn't much nl in there. Small mottled
      seeds sound like the right thing too, they sound like a good bet to me and well
      worth trying. The main prob with haze is with so much inbreeding you only get 5 to
      10% of really exceptional ones so loads need growing to get a really good one. I
      suspect Nevil crossed h to a non dom nl then back crossed to h again the idea
      being to remove the inbreeding depression without affecting the haze character.
      This is only supposition but its the route I would take if I had the space and the
      Dr Evil I cant access the anti-social account so don't send to me there. I don't
      know shiske it sounds like Canadian genetics? If it is i would want to verify that it
      didn't have ruderalis in its makeup . I think it should be a duty if breading not to
      include this gene for future generations to have to deal with, its a disaster. Apart
      from that yes you should get some time reduction you would have to make the
      cross to see how much.I did the haze crosses both ways and the time result
      is the same, but the hybrids are mould susceptible [only a little] The hazes never
      had mould neither have any of the other pure sats they seem completely immune
      I wish I could say the same about mites.
      67ed Dropped you a line.
      BudmWhen I water I do it once enough to dampen well then go back after
      1/2 hr and do it again to run through. Then leave until dry, but not so dry that the
      root ball shrinks back from the pot because this will kill some of the very fine
      feeder roots it wont kill the plants just reduce the nutrient up take and in turn the
      final yield. The main problem with beginners is that they tend to over feed and
      water killing the plants they love with kindness although they often survive inspite
      of the gardener. Hope this helps Ot1

Time 00:21, 26 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

      67ed: Too bad about the posi haze. The HF version sounds intersting though.
      This year, a plant could have gone to mid Dec., but this has been an unusual
      year, can't count on it being like that next year. It hadn't occured to me that the
      EP would finish earlier down here. Any other strain suggestions? These were only
      ideas, no seeds bought yet, so I'm not married to them. So far as the rafts go,
      even during a storm, if they are anchored they won't move far among the reeds.
      The fact that they could move some laterally (as they bob around) might even
      help some in a wind storm. I figure any weather calamity beyond that would
      probably also wipe out a more conventional crop in this area, just part of the risk.
      What do you think of the haze x shiske idea for an indoor plant? Maybe even
      outdoor, although the shiske component is mold prone. I guess that would
      depend on bud structure.

      Have a safe and happy holiday
      Dr. Evil

Time -1:25, 26 Dec 1998
From 67ed

      Dr. Evil: Someone I just talked to started some of Jock's Posi haze, and said he
      was very disappointed; some of his seedlings showed indica traits! But some
      good news-two months ago, I heard from a grower in northern Florida. He had just
      harvested some of Homegrown Fantasy's haze, and said it was the earliest haze
      he had ever worked with. If I remember, it was around the end of Oct. HF's version
      is at least a bigpart Posi haze, I'm sure. I'm afraid Nevil's haze wouldn't work
      in your area as, I suspect, it won't finish until mid- December unless the NL
      influence affects the flower time. Maybe Ot can clue us in further. I've thought of
      growing on islands in swamps, but never on rafts. What happens if it storms or
      floods? About the Early Pearl: since you're at the 30th, it would finish even earlier.
      I'm not sure what intense, humid heat does to a finishing plant(I know what it does
      indoors-and it ain't good)
                                                               Peace & Happy

Time -2:24, 26 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

      Almost forgot
      OT1 and Budm: the peroxide I mentioned was 3% (supermarket/drugstore
      version), because it's easy to get. I'd only use 1 ml/gallon with the 35%, using 11
      ml/gallon of that might cause root damage. I should have been more clear. Plants
      seem to like it.

      Budm: I water to saturation (runoff), and allow the plants to get dry to just the
      point before the begin to droop before watering again. How soon that is depends
      on the individual plant and its growth stage. You can see how metabolically active
      a plant is by the speed it uses the water up. It also shows if it is rootbound (like
      wanting more than one watering per day). All you can do is watch them, poke the
      finger into the soil, that sort of thing.

      Dr. Evil

Time -2:12, 26 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

      Hi everyone
      67ed and OT1, re Haze: There are two reasons I'm after the haze. The first, is
      that I have an outdoor area that I want to plant this summer. The area is a large
      swamp, infested with bugs, snakes, and a few alligators (southern Alabama). The
      season is long enough (earliest recorded first frost = Oct 20, normal first frost =
      Nov 20). The season is actually a little longer at that particular local because it is
      right on the water. I'm concerned about mold, and I think the loose bud structure
      might be an asset in this case. I don't know if any of you caught the idea that was
      proposed on the LM outdoor site. It was to grow in containers, floating on a
      stryrafoam raft, watered by wicks. The idea was that this would make care easier
      (no water hauling), throw off LEO (I've paid a lot of attention to what gets
      "watched" around here, and they've never shown any interest whatsoever in the
      swamp areas, while the forests and farmlands get quite a bit of scrutiny). I think
      with organics, this could be as close as you can get to low maintenance outdoor
      growing, making it easier for one man to take care of a fairly large grow. Strain
      selection, because of the potential for mold, would be important. I'm also looking
      at early pearl as a possibility. In this particular case, the early finish may be a
      liability, as it would cause harvest to come right about the same time as the early
      duck hunting season. Hidden well among the reeds, even tall plants wouldn't be
      noticeable, because your field of vision on the ground is limited by the reeds. I
      just would rather not be sharing the real estate with shotgun toting hunters. Since
      I have the season length to work with, I think I'd rather grow the Haze. Both the
      versions you guys mentioned sound good. Are you aware that Jock's advertises
      posi haze (old original stock)? If it is the original, it is probably going to have a low
      germination rate, due to its age, however, the price ($ 30/10 seeds) that I could
      afford to get maybe 30 of them to start. Nevil's version sounds interesting as well,
      although the purer version sounds a little better.

             There is another reason I want to grow it (and several other sativas as
      well). I have one shiske mother plant that has growth characteristics that I think
      would tame down a haze, or other difficult sativa. It's very fast (6 weeks to the
      day), very heavy, and has as close to an "up" high as I've ever seen in an almost
      pure indica. On the negative side, while it is very short and branchy, it is very stiff
      and brittle, so it is worthless for scrog, which is the method of growing I'm trying to
      move towards. Here again, the sativa influence would complement it. I think this
      might come out like a faster, heavier NL5xHaze, with more of the haze high
      coming through. I realize that the shiske is not the most stable strain around, but
      that gives more different variants in the offspring, and more chance to find "the"
      plant in there somewhere. Then cube it. Seems like it could work. As always,
      comments welcome.

      P.S. OT1: I don't know what happened with the mail I sent you. I sent one time and
      got an error message, resent and got a message saying it was sent. Most all I just
      restated above, other than to say the pics were awesome, and looking forward to
      the bonsai mom thing. Also that it seems like most smokers these days
      (youngsters) have never really experienced a strong sativa, so that coming up
      with a good one would really be something for most of them. The only real sats we
      get here are mexican schwag (some of which is really not that bad). Most of the
      indoor types here are sleepy indicas. I'd rather not pass around a pipe and have
      everyone doze off in half an hour, really kills a party.

      Well everyone, may visions of fat buds dance in your heads!
      Dr. Evil

Time 20:08, 25 Dec 1998
From 67ed (painetom76@hotmail.com)

      Dr. Evil: Here's a description of Nevil's Haze from Greenhouse(available at HS)
      Ot1: I'm going to try and contact Neville and find out just how much NL is in this.
      All I know so far is Nevil's haze seeds are very small. 9 are mottled, but the 10th
      has an almost clear shell. Despite being a small part NL, this may be the closest
      to what we're looking for. Once again, I ask for your comments?
      Pedigree: Almost pure Haze with just a hint of Indica (Northern Lights).
      Awards: Never entered in any competition.
      Strength: The most potent variety of its kind on or off the market. Not
      recommended for inexperienced smokers - too trippy - too profound.
      Flowering Times: Indoors: should be started under 12 hours of lights. The
      earliest will finish in 14 weeks (25%). Those that take much longer than this are
      usually discarded as not practical.

                  Outdoors: should be grown in the Tropics + started just before the
      on set of autumn. Yields are surprisingly good - the longer flowering time is
      usually compensated with extra large yields, both in and outdoors. Not for the
      novice smoker or grower.

      Specifications: ~ Flower: 14 + weeks ~ Price: $175.00 (10 seeds) ~ Code: nh

Time 17:35, 25 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Hi all again, Im stuffed, the misses did it up for the holiday dinner, and we had a
      fine early Romberry desert:-)
      Which brings me to the reason for the post, my girls are starting there 4th
      week(flower), they are in 2gal pots, and im noticing due to a combo of flowering,
      and well developed root systems, the soil is drying up much faster than B4. What
      do most of you do as far as watering during bloom? I dont want to drown them,
      and I dont want to hamper bud production! Thanks for the Help!!!

Time 15:15, 25 Dec 1998
From oldtimer1

      Hi Dr Evil I didn't get a reply mail, I use 4 litre pots as a finished pot size Num 7
      was mostly 4ís but the square ones hold 5 litres. Num 7ís grow was cut on week
      11 on 12/12 My grow was cut from wk 11 and the last out were the es at week 13
      but they could have gone 2 or 3 weeks longer but were cut for Christmas, bad
      timing on my part. The varieties are mostly my own. There may be descriptions at
      BCGA archive of this site Vic posts the addy from time to time. My haze was
      brought here [uk] from the states during its development it was still being
      developed field scale and may not represent the finished product. From what I
      have gleaned the nearest to the real thing on sale in Europe was sold by
      Wernard of Positronics. After he went bankrupt his stock and seed Co was taken
      over by Dutch passion / Home grown fantaseeds. Both these seed banks are run
      by relatives. The thing is that the spec for their haze has been changed from
      posies one in a big reduction on the finish time on 12/12. I suspect they have
      made a cross to a non dom indica. The thing is if you want to grow real haze it
      takes 12 to 16 weeks on 12/12 the very best being the late ones. The only other
      Haze that may have some of the original one in could be Nevils haze but
      greenhouse haven't published its spec yet but once again I suspect it will have
      indica added we will see. Most the other so called haze are lambs breath and Thai
      crosses. In fact in Holland haze has become a generic term for a sat with a strong
      up high.
      Thanks for the mention on anti-social.com I now have an addy which is
      oldtimer1@ . When you were talking about H2O2 what strength were you talking
      Budm glad you had that bit of Christmas magic, kind of makes life worthwhile.
      All the best Ot1.

Time 13:42, 25 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

             Hello everyone, Merry Christmas!

      OT1 - Likewise, thanks for the mail. Very impressive set-up. I meant to ask you in
      the return mail what sativas you're growing , but it slipped my mind. Also, were
      those 2 gal. containers?

      Budm: Happy to see you're having a good holiday. Also that your transplant went
      well. I stopped going by that tall vs. short thing. One of my shiske males was the
      shortest normally flowering (one fem. autoflowered at about 8" and got pitched)
      plant. It's also the widest of the bunch. It's the one I used for the big plum cross (it
      also was comparatively flexible, for a shiske). I'd expect a sativa like that to run
      kind of tall, anyway. Since you spotted it rapidly and transplanted, I'm sure there
      is no long term harm done. May set them back a couple of days, but that will let
      the others catch up height wise. From what I've seen, the roots do continue to
      grow alot during flowering. I usually transplant right when I put plants under the
      400w, give them a couple of days to show some good growth, then go to 12/12.
      Got my first scrog crop set to go 12/12 tonight (Big Plum). Late Feb. harvest.
            Good to hear your positive experiences with Richard. If I win the 1st place in
      the fantasy football pool a bunch of friends and I have, I may be giving him an
      order soon (in first with one week to go... fingers crossed).

      P.S. everybody: Anyone have an opinion on whose version of Haze is the best.
      I've heard so many different stories about what its genetic background is, that I
      think either there are many completely different plants being marketed as Haze,
      or people just don't have much of a clue about what they're selling, so they make
      something up, or a combination of both. Suffice it to say that I'm confused. I want
      to try it, but I don't want to order the mutt of the pack. If I'm going to contend with
      it's growth characteristics, I want the real deal. If anybody has some comments on
      this, I'd appreciate it. Well, happy holidays
      Dr. Evil

Time 12:30, 25 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Hi all. I hope everone is having a wonderfull day, I am, a five year olds face is
      MAGIC the moment they see there 1st bicycle:-))
      Ot1 Thanks for the mail, you and your co-op have this newbie Awestruck!!Im
      going to the archives to read again, I want to know more about your medium size
      containers, pruning etc.
      DrEvil, I did the Transplant this morning, Another JF that I thought would be male,
      that went into a 1gal, truned out to show female today, so I had 2 to trans today. I
      was only correct on one JF, that I put into 1gals,1 for 3 I wont assume Males by
      hight again! Anyhow the 2 girls went into 4gal pots, these are unique pots, the
      bottom is fine holes that have a water tray beneath the pot for "Bottom Watering"
      they were 1/2 price at the garden store, so at the bottom I place 1" of pearlite
      then the "SuperSoil mix"
      so when the roots reach there they can have sort-of a hydro hybred setup. Do
      the root systems continue to really grow agressivelly during 12/12?
      On another Note Richard came through with my Peak19 and Western Winds
      yesterday, Im stoked!! He is a great guy, When I heard he was getting Sag I told
      him I wanted the two strains, then when they arrived and the time came to send
      the coin, I wrote and told him, I was going to have to hold off till Jan, on the
      WesternWinds, cause of my wife hellbent on exploding our Xmas budget, He sent
      them both anyway,he said "I know you wanted them bad, so here you can start
      them now, and pay when you can" What A killer Bro!!! Vic you picked a great Dist,
      I must add that this comes after a few other transactions, And Richard Ill never
      post this elsewere, I dont want you inindated with credit requests, and I deeply am
      gratefull for the trust, and I would never violate it.Well im going to help the misses
      with the dinner prep, my folks are in from Miami, It made for a great holiday, I
      hope everyone had a great one also! Merry Xmas Everone!!
      And Kenke Feliz~Navidad!!

Time 09:54, 25 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil (doc_evil@anti-social.com)

            Sorry about the e-mail screw-up. I left the - out of the domain name.
      Anybody that tried to mail me before, please try again.

      Vic: Interesting idea on hermie genetics. It makes a lot of sense. I would imagine
      that strains native to regions prone to weather extremes, or bad soil might be
      more likely to having the "sexually flexible" plants being a larger proportion of the
      gene pool, since this sounds like a natural survival mechanism. I think that most of
      the big seed breeders have also not selected properly against this characteristic,
      and continued indifference to this problem could wind up endangering the entire
      gene pool if something isn't done. Thats why I'd rather get new stock through
      some of the little guys, who I think as a whole are more diligent about producing a
      superior plant. If your resources are limited, I think you are more likely to
      concentrate on your best plants than to go for the big bucks and try to crank out
      seeds by the truckload.

      OT1: Sorry about the e-mail addy. New domain and all. That domain provides free
      web based e-mail, and isn't too pick about getting user information. Good anon.
      as long as you always use proxies for access to it. Also, if you have unencrypted
      traffic, a hotmail addy on an e-mail means "read this first" to LEO.
            I couldn't agree more about using other plants for breeding besides the
      hermies, although if you have no other seed from a rare or unusual strain, I think
      my approach is valid (as is Vic's). I think the only time I could see going to the
      trouble is to find a male for a back-cross to a related plant that is "special", and
      then begin the selection process. I think I'd probably only do this to preserve a
      wild strain, like Kenkeman's PR, or Eric's thai. Otherwise if would be faster and
      more productive to find a stable male of another strain with complementary
      characteristics and begin cubing that "special" plant. Interesting ideas about male
      selection. Soon I'm going to build a small cabinet for pollenating female clones so
      I don't have to use the brush technique, and will hopefully yield greater numbers
      of seeds for selection. I've had good luck doing male plants a little differently. All
      new plants from seed get at least two clones taken while in veg. To save space all
      go in to a 5 oz solo cup for rooting immediately out of the aerocloner. All females
      and one each of the males get transplanted up to larger containers in a week or
      two, and one of each of the males stays in the small solo cups, root-binding them
      and causing them to autoflower under 24 hr light. I then collect pollen, which they
      continue to produce for quite a while, and not taking up much time or space while
      doing it. Then I pitch the little clone, and do the same with a clone of "dad"
      whenever necessary. Might be a good technique for small breeders. I'm still trying
      it out.

      Well everyone, its time to go sample some of this blender hash (looks tasty, like
      blond lebanese) and relax for a while.

      Merry Christmas all
      Dr. Evil

Time 09:50, 25 Dec 1998
From oldtimer1

      VicHope your hols are going well, Colour 33 is what we call daylight or cool
      white. They seem to be used as a standard in micro propagation labs here. I had
      a chat on the quiet to a technician at the glasshouse crop research institute a few
      years ago and he told me I was wasting my time using warm whites mixed with the
      cool whites. Well Iíve got two 4 ft x 2 ft boxes and tried one against the other.
      Consequentially haven't used warm whites for several years now.Did you
      receive my emey with the close up pics? As far as hermies are concerned its a
      survival thing I think breeding it out might be very difficult, making a strain more
      stable and expressing it less often thats possible I think. Even males if stressed
      then sprayed with GA will produce female flowers they don't seem to be able to
      set viable seedand believe me I tried to do this ie make male only seed. It
      seems to me to be a little more complex than just a gene or two but I have to say
      Iím not bright enough to work it out.Our number7 got 1.283 k about 45
      ounces from his 20 sq ft not bad for his first grow. I had just over 65 ounces from
      mine I was a little disappointed because I was hoping to make 2 k. I would have
      done it but 7 of the plants were not my genetics 2 were blueberry they averaged
      18 g a piece and 5 were Mesadina x Gak they averaged 12 g a piece. It was my
      fault they just got swamped by my vars even stood on upturned pots they just
      disappeared under the canopy Iím surprised they produced what they did. Its
      nearly lighting up time Iím off to look at my latest batch of babies.

      All the best Ot1.

Time 08:11, 25 Dec 1998
From Vic High

      Merry Christmas to all, hope all is going well.

      OT1 - that was some great info on male selection. I never new about the capitate
      resin glands on the anthers. A new trick to do with the disssecting scope, woo
      hoo! Thanks bud.

      Dr Evil, I share your ideas on hermie genetics. Say, another friend of ours, A1,
      once had some interesting things to say on MJ sexuality. He said he figured that
      there were three types of seeds, those that will grow up male, those that grow up
      female, and those that can go either way, depending on growing conditions and
      or chemicals presence. Well if you want to select against hermie traits it would
      make sense to me to select against those intermediate plants that could go either
      way. You would need to germinate 2 sets of seeds for this though. One set you
      would germinate with all the tricks to promote females and then use the resulting
      males left to search for the best males for breeding. I like OT1's methodsfor
      this. Then with the second batch of seeds do all the tricks to promote pollen
      production saving the females that don't go hermie as the stock to select the best
      from. Alot of work, but should definately work. Although there is some out here
      that disagree with me, I feel that the hermie trait is ever present even if not
      expressed and we should be dilligent in selecting against it.

      OT1 - The duel fluorescent tube thing is just something that's been done in the
      nursery and research trade for years. I have no complaints about the
      performance of the cloning bench as a whole but I'll try those 33's when I buy new
      bulbs in a few days. I hope they are called 33s here as well. I imagine I would
      have more lumens per watt if I had cleaned those tubes a few times over the last
      couple of years, haha. Amazing what you over look at times, haha. It just seemed
      to work so I never thought about it.

Time 07:48, 25 Dec 1998
From oldtimer1

      Hi Dr Evil have you got an email addy that works I tried the one below and it
      bounced. Ot1

Time 06:50, 25 Dec 1998
From oldtimer1

      Hi there Vic, I change my fluorescent tubes once a year. When you relamp forget
      the warm white just use colour 33 cool white and you will get a lot more lumens
      per w. Seedlings, cuttings and mums all do better under the 33ís than the mix. Its
      another myth that someone wrote and been replicated in every book and
      magazine since.
      Dr Evil I like your idea for selecting against hermaphroditism it sounds pretty much
      in line with standard plant selection techniques and sounds like it would work. I
      think I would prefer to start with a non hermaphrodite though. I think when
      breeding only the very best should be selected not just any cross within a specific
      type. Then as you go down through the generations constantly selecting the very
      best and rejecting ruthlessly all others you end up with an improved strain. So
      IMHO if there are some good males and rock solid females get the hermaphrodite
      out of there and start from the good ones, this will save you three or four grows. A
      couple of other thoughts If you are thinking of breeding make a backup copy of
      every seedling you grow and keep them all even when you have taken out the
      male seedlings from the main grow. Any females that show hermy traits destroy
      the backup cuttings. If its only a few male anthers produced you can let the
      seedling finish flowering a few seeds in your buds wont hurt unless your selling it.
      But if proper full male flowers are produced pull it early and smoke it while you are
      waiting for the rest to finish. As far as selecting males is concerned let them grow
      until just before the first buds are about to open this takes practice and looking at
      least twice a day. When they are ready to pop cut the plant and put it in a vase in
      another room in a window behind a net curtain is fine. When the flower opens the
      anthers will be hanging down at this stage you need a good hand lens x 10 and
      down the folds of the anther between the pollen sacs you should see short
      capitate resin glands the more the better just like a line of pearls any that don't
      have dump their backup cutting. After about four hours the anthers pollen sack
      will burst and should shed pollen once again if not dump. You can at this time test
      if the pollen is viable take a tiny smear of pollen in your finger and gently touch a
      few pistils on one of your ladies put a twist tie round the flower cluster and a small
      label with dads number on. After 4 days any flower clusters where the pistils
      haven't withered dump their backups.Dry the leaf tips and a few unopened
      flower trusses of the males left in the vases and do a smoke test on each. I know
      smoking leaves is not nice but you will find that some are quite potent these are
      the boys you keep barring normal points of selection such as height form etc. I
      thought I would bring male selection up as every one talks about female selection
      and the males seem to be forgotten. Of course the final point for selection is how
      good the progeny of a particular male is. An exceptional male is extremely
      valuable as it can be used within a pure strainand for making F1 hybrids.
      Budm That was a good thing you did for the folk let down by the seed banks, you
      too Vic, I salute you both.

      All the best Ot1.

Time 03:37, 25 Dec 1998
From oldtimer1

      Just Curious if you are Old Timer (2) I have posted to you back at cannabis kid's
      seeds 10939 it may help sorry I cant help more.
      I wish everyone here a great Crimbo. Ot1.

Time 14:37, 24 Dec 1998
From Just Curious

      Anyone know anything about a hybrid developed in the Pacific Northwest in the
      1980's that was named "Velvet Rush"?

Time 14:32, 24 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

      Budm: Go ahead and transplant that JF. If she's root bound already early in
      flowering, she'll be miserable by the time she's done and likely be a waste of
      space in your flowering area. Just be gentle while doing it, and don't be surprised
      if she stops growing for a few days while she gets used to her new home. I've
      found it helpful to water well, let sit for a while, repot using potting mix that is very
      wet with a mild mix of whatever fertilizers you're using + some hydrogen peroxide.
      11 ml per gallon of fert. mix, helps prevent damage caused by overwatering. Let
      her get good and dry (but not drooping) before her next watering, then next
      watering concentrate more of the water towards the outside of the pot. When
      repotting, if extremely rootbound, gently squeeze the rootball a few times to
      loosen it up. This causes some slght damage to the root system, which it will
      repair by sending out more roots. It may set it back for a few more days, but will
      do better later on. Until I got my new veg area set up, I got a lot of experience with
      rootbound plants.

      Merry Christmas
      Dr. Evil

Time 11:32, 24 Dec 1998
From pie

      To ALL my friends here I wish YOU and YOUR families a safe and Merry
      Christmas !!!!

      God Bless One and All

      and Puppy

Time 10:19, 24 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Hi again all, Thanks to all of the replys,and Vic thanks so much for the
      Hospitality:-)) I love this place it has a much more Intimate feel, for certain
      I have a question, I transplanted 4 weeks ago, a bunch of youngns.and a few of
      the taller ones that I thought would be male, went to 1galpots, Now I was right
      about most of the tall ones, the short ones went into 2gals, But today I identified in
      a 1gal a nice JackFlash girl, she is just showing preflowers, my question is, can I
      carefully place her into a 2gal, at this point? Shes about 16" in a SupSoilmix
      6days into 12/12,Im sue shes rootbound as a JF male that I removed a few days
      ago in a 1gal was rootbound big time,So im woundering if transplanting would risk
      hermi.Please post your experiences.
      Thanks and again Merry Xmas!

Time 09:42, 24 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

      Kenkeman: I think more than one gene is involved in hermaphrodism. Some will
      go hermie with no stress, and some need varying degrees of stress to "go to the
      dark side". To me, that suggests that there are more than one gene, with an
      additive effect. Say there are three genes involved (hypothetically). If those genes
      are labeled S, T, and U, and hermaphrodism is a recessive gene (s, t, u), then
      your possible outcomes are a combination of SS,TT,UU (totally not prone to
      hermie), ss,tt,uu (totally hermie), and all the possible permutation in between. So
      a seed with a hermie "dad" could be straight, hermie, or anything in between. I
      suspect the only way to breed out this characteristic would be to start a lot of
      seed, then intentionally strees them, select those that don't change teams, breed,
      and then repeat the process for several generations.

      Merry Christmas
      Dr. Evil

Time 09:26, 24 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

      Budm: the cross I made was shiskeberry x "big plum" (an originally accidental
      cross between big bud and a b.c. plum bud). The shiske's have been ultra big
      and fast (6 weeks to the day), but have very stiff, brittle stems, and thus are
      unsuitable for scrog, which is the growing style I want to move towards. The big
      plum is very heavy yielding, nice, sweet, floral, hasy flavored smoke with a very
      "up" type of high. It also has very flexible stems. I'm just trying to see if I can get
      the 8 wk flowering time down a bit, and keep or possibly improve the yield, while
      keeping the other characteristics of the bp. Hopefully there will be something in
      the first seedlings that approaches those goals. I also did a shiske x bubbleberry
      (f2) cross. The jury is still out on the bubbleberry mom. I tried using the 16/12
      lighting schedule on that room, and she decidedly didn't like it. Stayed in a blend
      of veg and flower growth and got huge. Now she's under 12/12 and seems to be
      fattening up nicely. I pitched all but one clone of her, thinking she was going to
      turn out to be shwag. If she continues on her current course, I'll be glad I kept that
      one last clone of her (I always keep at least one till I get to smoke some from
      mom). I also have a couple of different shiske moms. The fastest and fattest of
      the bunch looks like she might be just the thing to cross with a high power sativa,
      to tame its growth characteristics. One of the others has an interesting smell/taste
      (apple blossoms), and was the second highest yielder. The shiske's may not be
      the most stable strain on earth, but an interesting genetic grab bag with a lot of
      good characteristics to work with.

      By the way, I didn't mean to imply that I start seedlings under the hps. I use the flo
      cabinet until 6-8", then go to the hps. Watt for watt, the hps runs cooler, but the
      seedlings like the extra blue/ lower intensity of the flo's. P. S. if you aren't cloning
      those babies, it will mean adding a lot of delay time to your new setup, and small
      clones are very easy to move. I'd just hate to see all of those great genetics get
      lost. The aerocloner took me all of 1/2 hour to build (quicker than a trip to the
      grow store, how's that for lazy :) )

      Vic: 4 year old tubes? Yup, I'd say it's time for replacement. You'll probably be
      surprised at the difference in light level.

      Kenkeman: I have no experience with niagra, but being primarily an outdoor plant,
      I think Eric has a point about light level. As to the seeds, well, I hope you have
      enough for a few for me, but being the newbie here, and that the supply is very
      limited, I understand if I didn't "make the cut". Just wanted to mention that I'm not
      after something for nothing. I don't have a collection like many of the people here,
      but it is all available for trade, given enough advance notice to root clones where

      Eric: Hope you found something useful in those links. I'll keep looking for more.
      When checking those out, I found that many of my old links on the subject were
      now dead so now I have to look for more. Sounds like we are not too far apart
      geographically. Clue-- "Waaar Eeeagle, Hey". If a football fan you'll understand.
      How's the thai doing?

      Everybody: Glad I got my proxies worked out, seeing the half a conversation with
      "the hacker" over the past day.
      Coming to you all from Zimbabwe today (how's that for making a trace into a
      jurisdictional nightmare?)
      Merry Christmas
      Dr. Evil

Time 08:56, 24 Dec 1998
From Kenkeman

      Just a small question:If I have a hermie with seeds would those seeds be
      hermaphrodites as well?If hermaphrodism is a trait caused by stress then it
      shouldn't be passed down.Am I right?just curious!

      el kenkeman

Time 08:52, 24 Dec 1998
From Kenkeman

      RED WIDOW!!!Now that sounds interesting.Just the tought of it
      sounds fantastic.or how about Northern Red, or Red Commie, or Romulan
      Red!the posibilities are endless. I must work on these!!!

Time 08:02, 24 Dec 1998

                   I didnt get romulan suprise

      I got strawberry blond/ Romulan
      and princess/ romulan

      but no i have not. I will mail you more on the subject later.....but you have mail
      from me now

Time 07:58, 24 Dec 1998

                  How much light is your friend using on these Niagra?

      Yes they will fattin up until the start to die

      5% is normal..they will grow and die until they all start to die. Some straind i have
      seen growing you can wait until all hairs are dead ...but that is a good rulew of
      thumb...some folks keep a close eye on the resin glands.

      for myself it is an overall plant picture on EVERY determination made about it.
      Take into consideration how long it has been flowering. How fast they are
      maturing, what the hairs look like (growing, dieng) what the resin glands look like.
      temperature outside and really everything...but it all comes along eventually.

      Kenkeman> I will mail you a cross with the white widow.....RED WIDOW

      red Widow
      white widow
      blue widow


Time 07:55, 24 Dec 1998
From Vic High

      Eric - good comments on the flos. I've had excellent results starting seedlings in
      my cloning bench (4 - 4' flos, 2warm, 2cool) and under the 430HPS. I did need to
      watch the ones under the 430HPS but they did very well. An added bonus is that
      they showed preflowers sooner to speed up sexing without slowing growth by
      switching back and forth between 12/12 and 18/6 or cloning for sex. With the flos,
      I need to keep the seedlings within 8" of the flos to prevent excessive stretching.
      Say ..... I just realized that my flo tubes are about 4 years old ... do they have a
      useable life span? anyone?

      Eric - one more thing. Did you ever grow those romulan suprise seeds of mine
      that you got from bongblaster? Looking for feedback.

      Budm - your conversations with the doc are more than welcome, as are any grow
      related posts. I think the other old timer posted that he had no interest in bcga,
      but hears the URLs:

      bcga webpage:

      this chat page:

Time 07:22, 24 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Hi All, First a question to Vic in 2 parts,1) Can you please list this "private site
      addy" as I was trying to tell Okldtimer(notOT1) at cancom how to get here, and
      lazy me has only been comming here, the way I first got here, through
      Richards,LOL:) Now that is LAZY all these months,Creatures of habit, no
      creatures of Lazyness!!:-)) 2) I have been posting back and forth with DrEvil,
      (Seems we have lots in common)Is this ok? As the last thing I want to do is be a
      DrEvil. Hi and yea, I have the extra powerehead,and heater but im moving in May,
      so ive negated the idea of really getting into cloning, till im in the new crib.In my
      infinate laziness I think im going to buy a clone machine, its just like the WBase
      mach, it comes in 3 sizes, the small table top model I want is I think 24sites
      aeroponic, and is under 100usd.Its from the folks at AmericanAgriTech at
      They have some nice systems and such, they also own Sea of green in AZ. I cant
      wait till I can use the blender:-)
      Well I have a bicycle to assymble for Jr, so I got to run! A Merry Xnas To All!!!:)))
      PS DrE, What did you Cross?

Time 07:13, 24 Dec 1998
From Kenkeman

      Hey all!Just a quick question.My niagara plants are 4 weeks into
      flowering.They have decent buds but I expected more and
      thicker.Will they thicken and grow during the last four weeks?I
      noticed that some, although a small amount (5%) starting to turn brown.I will
      wait till they turn about 80%.Well, for those who asked for the red I have
      them all packed up and ready to head out on monday.

      Didn't have many but everyone got enough to start a good crop.

      Feliz Navidad y Prospero Año Nuevo a Todos!!!!

      el kenkeman

Time 07:08, 24 Dec 1998

      I forgot....

      when you move them to the veg room you can plug that flouresent into that room
      and you will have added light

Time 07:07, 24 Dec 1998

                  I think you will come out better with flouresents on the seedlings than
      a 70whatt HPS. the 70hps will put out more heat ..drying your seedling medium
      out faster and you will have to keep a closer eye on them so they dont grow into
      it. With the flouresent ( go to a hardware store and get the ones that are 4 feet
      long and they just plug into the wall socket) your medium will stay more moist, it is
      plenty of light for them ( My friend has those lights on his clone tub and then once
      roots show just moves them to different flouresents until they are like 12" tall...so
      its enough for them)

      You dont have to worry about your young plants growing into the tubes..they dont
      burn. Then when they are about 6" tall you can move them to your veg room.

Time -3:09, 24 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

      Budm: Wow, I envy the hell out of your genetic selection. You out to find plenty of
      things in there to put a smile on your face :) . From what I've seen, and
      experienced not all that long ago, newbie anxiety is pretty normal. Sounds like
      you're on the right track. Next project you may want to consider, given your wealth
      of genetics, is breeding. Just harvested my first (intentional) seeds, and can
      hardly wait to start them. Not very many, but enough to get an idea of whether or
      not the cross I made was worthwhile. If it proves to be good, I still have clones of
      both mom and dad, so I can recreate it. The idea of coming up with something
      unique is really appealing to me.
      P.S. Another thing you may want to try first is getting your cloning technique
      worked out. I had big problems with it at first. Building the aerocloner that is on the
      LM site completely solved that problem. I recommend it highly. I have only lost 1
      clone in the past few rounds of cloning, and that was through a stupid mistake on
      my part. If your a aquarist, you you probably have a spare powerhead (and a
      decent submersible heater makes a nice addition as well, if you keep the cloner in
      a cool room like I do). I use a 23w compact flourescent to light it. Growing from
      clones is definately the way to go, keeps you from having to waste space in your
      flowering room on males and substandard plants. Well, gotta go, I'm trying to
      make blender hash (from Shiva's recipe). I usually make brownies with my shake,
      but I've always loved good hash.

      Merry Christmas
      Dr. Evil

Time 19:34, 23 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Hi, DrE, My Veg is auctually a bath tub with glass shower doors, so its about 5'X 2'
      aprox. The flower is half a bedroom closet(Sound Familar)its only2'X 3.5' so I
      guess,im about 40 in veg,and 55 flower, Ive only been at this since Oct.So alot of
      anixiety and nervous questions, Im starting to really relax, especially cause these
      Roms are so damm strong and hardy! It was a great way to "Get my Wings". Ive
      learned so much in the past couple of months.Im following in your foot steps
      more than you think, today I was looking at 70hps's for a small seed starting area,
      my wife wants to kill me!
      Thank god for mad money slush funds! LOL:) Next week im going to start
      AK47,Peak19,WesternWinds and Ingmars Punch(WWXSkunk) about 4 of each. I
      have in veg now Jackflash(this looks very Hazey) SuperChrystal (short,stocky
      bluegreen) NL(Aloha) AF#1 (Aloha) and BigBud (Aloha), I had
      Cottoncandy(MarcE) but both were male! When I cut teeth, I cut teeth. You should
      have seen when I jumped into Saltwater Reef Tanks 7 years ago.(Still at
      them).Any way enough shooting off at the mouth!
      Be safe and Merry Xmas!

Time 14:03, 23 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

      Budm: Kind words, but I'm a relative newbie myself (especially compared to many
      both here and at LM). Sounds like our setups are somewhat similar. I use 1 400w
      mh and one 400w hps. I have 2 identical 8 square foot closets with these lights,
      both used for flowering, plus a smallarea in another part of the house, with
      3 70w hps' for veg. and moms, as well as a small cabinet area with flo's for
      starting seeds. I currently hand water soil-less (Sunshine pro mix + perlite and
      dolomite) with GH. I'd consider growing organic, if it weren't for the close proximity
      I live with my plants. I've made my share of sacrifices for the comfort of my plants,
      and having manure teas brewing in my bed room is just a bit too much for me.
             I also rotate lights between rooms like you are planning to do, and I like the
      results. How much square footage are you using your lights with? I get good bud
      density with 50w/sf with the 400's employed the way you are planning.

            Vic: Romulan surprise, huh. Sounds like the dinner menu at a star trek
      convention (although bound to be much tastier than banquet food) :) . Bound to
      be something interesting in there.

      Everyone: Although I don't intend to go completely organic any time soon, for the
      reasons mentioned above, I do have a question. Recently I found out a friend has
      started doing research at the local university on bats, which are producing guano
      literally by the truckload. I can have as much as I care to haul away. I'm wondering
      how I might mix an organic mix for my mother plants using this, plus, preferably
      the sunshine mix, and whatever easily available organic products I can get in this
      area. No castings seem to be available, but bone, blood, and cottonseed meals
      are available, as are chicken and steer manures. Any guidance would be helpful.
      I'd like to learn more about organics for an outdoor set-up this summer also (I
      think the lower maintenance is appealing). Thanks all

      Merry Christmas
      Dr. Evil

Time 11:42, 23 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Vic, By "The Sexing 12/12" I ment that I have two closets, Roms in the flower
      w/400hps, and the other is five Dutch strains w/400mh, Roms are 3weeks into the
      flower cycle, The Dutch's are in about 5 week veg 19/5, So when rom is at 6
      weeks, im going to turn the veg to 12/12, so when the 400hps becomes
      available(Roms Finished), the dutch will be 2 weeks 12/12, I can remove males,
      and introduce HPS, before any real bud growth is in need of the mixed spectrum,
      and really needs the benifit of 800watts. Sounds like a good planhuh?

Time 09:41, 23 Dec 1998
From Vic High

      Budm - I must be loosing it, I think I remember answering this last night, haha. You
      should get a good growth spurt during weeks 5-6 but don't harvest until week 8
      for best results. Your best results will come from combining the two light sources. I
      didn't really understand what you were trying to say about putting into 12/12 for
      sexing them ? It may be that I just haven't had my morning coffee yet :)

      As for my comments about "ROMULAN" not being the best clone in our (private)
      email, I just meant that there are some other clones in there that are just as
      potent and unique if not more so. This really means nothing about new releases
      as it is a long road from having a killer clone to having a credible seed line. I was
      lucky in that both romulan and blueberry were fairly stable genetics so making
      romberry was easy. My next project will be a romulan/grapefruit hybrid of which I
      was hoping to be testing out the prototype romulan/sweet tooth by this time.
      However the suprises have gotten in the way and I have no idea who sired what
      so all seeds are now worthless for my breeding projects. The only possible
      release may be the romulan suprise, but I want to grow out a test crop first to be

Time 09:00, 23 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Vic, I did not mean in the previous post that you use 400's I meant that you use
      MH & HPS together in the flower room. thats why after the Roms are finished w
      the 400hp.Its in together w the400mh,to flower the Dutch's, I figure the MH
      12/12 for the fiest 2 weeks to sex and let the hps finish up the Roms in the flower
      is the way to go, I just priced a combo air cooled hod from Sunlight supply, to put
      the 2 400's in, at 99$us it sounds like a wort wile expenduture. Any comments?
      Cause after this grow ill have enough stash cause I only grow for personal stash,
      Im going to a mh/hps combo hood, with one closet, as I have not tried cloning yet,
      but when we move this summer I may get a small mh to set up a "Mom"
      situation.Thanks for entertaining my newbie ramblings!

Time 08:07, 23 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Dr Evil, Thanks for your reply, Its nice to see you here as well as there!
      I read all of your posts,and am humbled by them,this is my first go at grow, and I
      was a bit nervous at only having a 400mh for veg, and a400hp for bloom, as soon
      as the Roms finish im putting the hps in the veg closet to combine w/mh for 800, I
      have five Dutch strains in week 3-7, waiting for the light, I figure that ill go 12/12
      two weeks B4 the Roms finish, as I heard the Hps con reall start in week 3 12/12,
      so that will get them sexed, and let the Roms finish, anyone (I know Vic Does) use
      Hps and Mh in the 400 range, Im hoping for nice density. This hobby has a lot of
      "Husbandry Chores" like my salt water
      reef wet/dry system, lots of work, but oh so much satisfaction!:))

      Vic, You say your "overgrown with killer clones, of which Romberry is no
      longer the best(sic)" Would you mind elaborating? If its sensitive to a new release
      I fully understand.Merry Xmas to all & a High New Year!!

Time -1:29, 23 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

            Budm, flowers that size at 3 weeks I'd call pretty damn good. They have a
      long way to go, and many growth spurts before harvest. You'll see.

      Dr. Evil

Time -3:17, 23 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Hi all, Vic or anyone, My Roms are about 3weeks into flower, is there a certain
      period that they experience a growth spurt, and add bud size weight? like 7-8
      week? They are about 1.75inches and kinda narrow now, sorry to sound so
      impaitent, its the first time around the block. Thanks and Merry Xmas.

Time 19:40, 22 Dec 1998


Time 17:27, 22 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

      Try thes links Eric
      Good free publications available here:

      That should keep you busy for a while
      Dr. Evil

Time 14:04, 22 Dec 1998

      Dr. Evil
                       If you have anymore links on the subject of aquaponics I would
      LOVE to have them. This is like the set-up that Vic desricbed of breeder steve.

Time 14:00, 22 Dec 1998

      Dr. EVIL
                  There are many fish farms here in Mississppi. It is becoming the
      biggest crop here next to cotton and corn. Thanks for the addy.

      Vic>>> Most fish ponds here are average 12 acres each..they usually stock them
      5,000 head per acre. Feeding is done with tractor and buggy. The feed DOES
      have additives..but not all of it. You only use the medicine feed when the fish are
      sick. The rest of the time the average feed contains fish and cow byproducts with
      added oils and grain.


Time 13:53, 22 Dec 1998
From oldtimer1

      Vic you got male Bro. Ot1

Time 09:45, 22 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

            Vic, much of the problem with additives in fish feed have been reduced in
      the past few years (at least in the U.S.). It takes FDA licensing to use most
      antibiotics in food fish, and only may be used under certain circumstances. I
      guess they decided it would look bad if the fish glowed in the dark at the market
      :). Most farmers have found it more cost effective to control the stress factors
      which cause the diseases than to try and treat after the fact. As to the amount of
      waste produced, consider this. Most fish feeds are around 30% protein. All
      proteins are 16% nitrogen by weight (due to the amine group in the amino acids).
      That gives you a graphic idea of the N content of the waste (and an idea of how
      much N an aquaponics system circulates). I think this is really the "wave of the
      Dr. Evil

Time 09:08, 22 Dec 1998
From Vic High

      anons - obviously if you are taking the time to post, you want to be heard. The
      problem is that by posting anon, we feel you don't really believe what you have to
      say and therefore disregard what you have to say. No name leaves us to believe
      that you simply want to stir the shit. If you REALLY believe in what you have to
      say you should have no problem saying who you are. In my early net days, I made
      the mistake of posting an anon warning about a young fella (minor) called Jack. I
      felt like a total heal and chicken shit for doing it and vowed that I would always put
      my name to my posts from that point forward.

      As for BB selling me the real deal, I'm not saying that he did or didn't, only BB
      knows the truth there. I'm just saying that the evidence seems to speak for itself.
      And for the record, that RSB is the best all around weed that I've grown from
      seeds that I've purchased. And yes, that includes both batches of blueberry that I
      bought from Marc Emery and the Dutch Passion durban poison that I bought from
      The Amsterdam Cafe.

Time 08:46, 22 Dec 1998
From Vic High (vic_high@hotmail.com)

      Seasons Greeting to all. Budm, it's guys like you that make this a friendly place.

      Kenkeman - please email me if you can. I don't have your addy. Just want to talk
      about seed sending/recieving safety.

      Dr Evil - thanks for coming out. It's good you got your security in check first, you
      can never be too safe. I'll just make a quick note. My non proxy surfing will be
      coming to an end soon so time is running out on those highly skilled hackers
      amongst us, LMAO. I think my point has been made. Without large amounts of
      money and judges in your back pocket, ISP numbers mean Jack Shit. Even
      without a proxy, one of the hackers traced me to some area (walla walla was it?)
      in the US when I'm actually surfing from Vancouver Island in Lower BC, Canada.
      LMAO again! That said, I still believe in safe surfing as an added precaution.

      Anyways Dr, good to have ya. I know what you mean about all the waste from the
      fish farms. I did a 4 month term working with atlantic salmon and you wouldn't
      believe the mountains of crud that builds up under the pens. Good fishing around
      fish farms though, haha. Alot of the waste was unused food. We fed the fish every
      hour I believe to the point where they simply wouldn't eat any more so lots fell
      through. Definately a good untapped resource sitting there. The only concern is
      all the chemicals that are in the fish feeds. I think I recall them being full of
      antibiotics and other chemicals designed to keep the fish disease free. It's been a
      few years so I'm not totally clear on the details.

Time -3:50, 22 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil

             Just wanted to say hello and introduce myself. This is the first I've posted
      here, but have been lurking for quite some time. I've posted on and off at the LM
      site for about the last six months or so, so some of you may recognize me from
      there. I wanted to work out some security/ anonimity issues before posting here (I
      don't really trust ISP's much). Other than the occasional nameless hackers and
      flamers, this is a great site with a lot of interesting information. All the regulars
      seem to get along.

                   I've followed the discussions on aquaculture/aquaponics with some
      interest, as it relates to my field of training. I believe that most of the large fish
      farms will go to a system of this type eventually, because the amounts of
      nitrogenous wastes produced by intensive fish farming operations will dictate that
      some sort of treatment will become necessary for environmental reasons. Already
      some states in the U.S. require treatment of pond effluents, and the federal
      government is proposing legislation to require it nationwide. So look for the
      technology to expand dramatically in the next several years. One tank of tilapia
      20ft in diameter and 4ft deep, stocked to max density produces as much
      nitrogenous waste in a year as a town of 3000 people, so you can see the
      magnitude of the problem for large fish farmers. However, fish farmers have
      started to realize that nitrogen is a resource, not a waste, so some farming of
      plants, especially lettuce, which eats nitrogen like there is no tomorrow is starting
      to become commercially viable. Here's a link to start reading into the subject--
      This is a general aquaculture site, with many intersting links. By the way, when
      searching for info on this subject, aquaculture generally refers to fish farming,
      where aquaponics refers to fish/plant farming together.
      Dr. Evil

Time -3:45, 22 Dec 1998
From Budm

      I just Wanted to say the nicest people on the web, reside here!! Happy Holidays
      and a High New Year To All!!!!!

Time 17:09, 21 Dec 1998
From Dr. Evil (doc_evil@antisocial.com)

            Kenkeman, I'd be very interseted in trading a couple of different varieties of
      clones I have for any of the Panama Red seeds you could spare. If interested
      please e-mail me. I also have a sentimental attachment to it (first weed I ever
      Dr. Evil

Time 15:26, 21 Dec 1998
From Kenkeman

      Niagara report!Well, my plants are doing ok.Only 3 good female
      plants out of 15.Not good odds but I believe that I need to get better at
      growing them.I might have stressed them.Of the 15 i got 5 hermies.
            Well, I have decided from my next batch will be done outdoors.I
      haven't tried them yet but they look pretty nice.I will take some the red
      seeds and grow them.Maybe in the future I can cross my Niagara with the
      Red.Both are sativas but the Red has great growth potential as well as a
      good yield.Has anyone out there grown Niagara?Just curious!

      Well, Feliz Navidad y Prospero Año Nuevo!

      El Kenkeman

Time 14:41, 21 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Kenkeman, I grew up in Miami, in the 70s-80s and the Pans. and SantaMartas of
      Red or Gold, have a real sentimental
      soft spot with me. Please email me, moneys tight(Xmas & Children)but I have a
      nice inventory, from 6 top breeders, please write for details! Thanks and merry

Time 08:20, 21 Dec 1998
From Vic High

      Naughty - hey thanks for the offer, that's very generous of you. Right now I'm
      way over run with seeds and if I was to accept your offer, it would only be out of
      greed. I'm sure there are others here in far greater need than me. Thanks again
      for the thought though.

      Well, I just finished reading the Nov/Dec issue of Cannabis Culture. Many things
      there caught my eye. First was the picture of emery's version of romulan bud.
      Even at that early 2 week stage I can see that it is very different from mine. Cool!
      We have two versions of romulan out there now, haha. If history proves correct,
      Emery's enhanced exposure should mean that his romulan will become the world
      standard for romulan. So what should I do with mine? Change the name? Market
      it as the Romulan original? It is from a 20 year old true breeding clone, so
      maybe Classic Romulan, haha. I don't want to get into a pissing contest with
      Emery as I'm sure his version of romulan is also quality genetics and in the big
      picture it really doesn't matter. As long as the genetics getsb spread around.

      What surprises me is how far that picture of his romulan is from the real deal.
      Romulan genetics are very dominant, so much so that many plants of the first
      backcross look quite a bit like mom. Much more so than that picture in CC. The
      male he used in his backcross must have been one hell of a dominant stud.

      The other thing that caught my attention was the Spice of Life ad and it's claim
      that Bongblaster doesn't carry SOL stock. Now I've puchased Sweet Tooth (ST)
      and romulan/strawberry blonde (RSB) from bongblaster, and in high enough
      quantities to know if they were somewhat legit. Well both batches showed
      enough uniformity and uniqueness to convince me that they came from a
      knowledgeable breeder. I should check my notes, but of the first 50 seedlings, I
      don't think I found a hermie; and my grow room has enough stress to expose
      any hermie tendancies. When I met with Steve he confirmed the ST transaction
      that put those seeds in my hands. He also mentioned that the RSB wasn't really
      a cross that he did when I started asking him about his romulan source. He didn't
      say that it was bogus genetics though, just that he didn't do the actual cross. I
      got the feeling that they were being marketed through him though with his
      permission. Being as stoned as we were it was hard getting direct questions and
      answers, haha. Despite that ad in CC, I just thought that I should go on the
      record as saying that I'm confident that BB sold me what I was asking for.
      Sometimes politics and personalities can get in the way of the truth, and
      sometimes the truth gets bent as a result. Just MHO.

Time 08:07, 21 Dec 1998

      KenKeman>>>>>>yup...me too. ericcarr21@hotmail.com

Time 07:25, 21 Dec 1998
From Mota

      E-mail me at myerba@hotmail.com, maybe we can discuss a trade.


Time 06:26, 21 Dec 1998
From Kenkeman

      Hey 67ed and others,

      The red just came in.Looks and tastes real nice.Smaller buds than
      years before but nice red hairs throughout.A little more moist this year
      than last and the gold sets a nice background for the red and green.Taste
      is kinda mild with a good solid head buzz for about 3 to 4 hours.Doesn't
      get you tired afterwards..I was only able to get a little but the little I got had
      some seeds.Maybe 30 to 50 per half pound.anyone interested in
      trading leave a message here.



Time 17:54, 20 Dec 1998
From Naughty (Naughty_62@hotmail.com)

      Hey vic i`ve got an over abundance of eggs that i am willing to donate to the
      cause iv`e got (1) ak47 x ak47 indica domited strain (serious) (2) ak47 x ak47
      sativa dominated strain (serious) (3) ak47(serious) X nl#9 (sag)..if you are
      interested just let me know.... i can send you 30 of each if you need

Time 08:28, 19 Dec 1998
From Vic High

      pie we are talking similar dimensions. There are about 10K watts of lighting in a
      space that size. Problem is that many of the lights are on suncircles and
      therefore can't be cooled. Couple that with a tar and gravel roof and heat is a
      major problem in the summer.

      I used to think that having air cooled hoods on a track would be more efficient.
      I've now been playing with two seperate setups with tracks/rails and IMO, the
      tracks don't even come close to the suncircle for efficiency. The increased
      efficiency of the suncircles by far out weighs the added ventilation costs
      involved. Granted, tracks and rails are much easier to arrange and maintain
      your plants under, haha.

      Pie - speak up with your thoughts please. It's how we learn, whether right or
      wrong. Besides, its always good to clean the old feet every now and then
      anyway :)

Time 07:38, 19 Dec 1998
From pie

      i have some diff thought on these issues and will do a little experimenting before
      i stick my foot in my mouth. am interested in knowing how big of a space you are
      talking about. I believe my current flowering/veg room and future veg room
      bombined are about 500 to 600 sq ft total. this info will help me size my blower!

Time -1:29, 19 Dec 1998
From Lady J

      hi all,

      I have used wind simulation (large floor fans) for the last year or so and since
      then have had NO problem with mites, fungus gnats, mold or fungi. I believe in
      prevention rather than cures. Not to mention it builds strong plants that rarely
      need physical supports.


Time 19:05, 18 Dec 1998
From Vic High

      Damien - all that I've read on avid states clearly not to use it with soaps or other
      surfactants. If you must use it, I would use as per the directions. The version we
      get here under the counter is either 15-20 drops per gallon or 5 drops per
      gallon depending on the source. Personally, unless your garden is a perpetual
      harvest setup, I wouldn't use it. I would spray soap up till the last week or two,
      harvest, and then sterilize the room. When not spraying soap, regular sprayings
      with plain water to knock mites off plants and increase humidity help keep them
      in check.

      Budm - thanks for the kind words. I hope those dutch genetics make up in bud
      quality what they lack in vigour. I've been on the net since last spring and I must
      admit that it has been responsible for many changes in my garden. I had two
      strains back then, now I have over 30. While my knowledge and genetic base
      has been greatly enriched by being here, I have also made some good friends.

      Peter - that intake isn't working on it's own, haha. Sorry to confuse the situation.
      My initial ventilation setup consisted of two 10" dayton (~560cfm?) fans, one
      intake, one exhaust. Since I use suncircles, controlling summer temps has
      always been a problem and those two fans just didn't cut it. I picked up a 960
      cfm blower as my exhaust and kept the 10" dayton as the intake. Well last
      summer my temps still kept hovering around 40 celcius (even with two air
      conditioners) so I picked up another 960cfm blower to replace the 10 dayton as
      the intake. What a difference! Temps instantly dropped to 30 celcius and have
      remained there ever since. The blower on the intake greatly increases the
      efficiency of the exhaust.

      Pie - I too pay attention to the air pressures of the rooms. My veg and
      production flower rooms are adjoined. I now have one of the 960cfm blowers
      pushing air into the flower room along with one of the 10" daytons. I have vents
      and a 10" dayton allowing the air to exhaust from the flower room into the veg
      room. From the veg room, the other 960cfm blower pushes the air to the
      outside. This keeps the flower room at a higher pressure than the veg room to
      try and prevent pollen from travelling from the veg room to the flower room. One
      dowside to this setup is that air leaks from the flower room, and odours can leak
      with them. This is another reason I keep the ozone generator in the flower room.

Time 17:08, 18 Dec 1998
From pie


      imagine your room as a balloon with a bunch of small holes. if you blow up the
      balloon you have air going in a million diff directions and you have to work like
      hell to blow it up.

      when i live in fla my house had a whole house exhaust fan. i could open different
      windows throughout the house and exhaust any room i wanted to or the whole
      house if i wanted. i seldom had to use my air conditioner and it worked so good
      at night that i froze my ass off.

Time 17:00, 18 Dec 1998
From pie

      i would think that the exhaust should be pulling all the air out of a room.

      my reasoning ...

      - if you push air than the path of least resistance is where the air is going to go.
      if you have any kind of room leaks the air (positive pressure) will find them.

      - if you pull air from the room you create a negative pressure in the room and
      YOU can dicatate where the air is going to go which means you can treat the
      smell via a predetermined air flow path before it exits.

      Vic, i may be wrong but it seems like you had a positive pressure in your room
      and unless you had a perfectly sealed room you would have air leaks that would
      allow untreated air to escape prior to being deodorized.

      if anyone has had a whole house exhaust fan which is pulling the air out of the
      house and into the attic you will know waht i am talking about. the amount of
      exhaust and subsequent air movement can be regulated by proper sizing of the
      exhaust fan and by metering the intake. a rule of thumb if i remember right is
      your intakeprofile should be 3 times your exhaust.

Time 16:49, 18 Dec 1998
From toker2

      peter they make adapters but they're kinda pricey.tin snips and soup cans work
      good enuff for me

Time 15:55, 18 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Hi Vic, and Co. My Roms enter there 3rd week flower today, gawd there are so
      many bud-sites, Vic these girls blow away all of my 5 other Dutch strains, as far
      as, they are Like 'Arnold Shawrtzneger" and my Dutch's are "Danny DeVitos"
      Imean they are THICK and Meaty.
      Im fully impressed, Vic thanks once again for making these quality genetics
      afforadable. I read you paid over 20$ per bean for Sag blueberry,big money!
      Any way I moved 2 Jack Flash's and one Cotton Candy, into the Flower
      Chamber today, to keep the Roms company, I must say for my first grow, things
      are working out great. I have alaways bit off large chunks of any hobby I start.
      Like 7 years ago, when I set up my Mini Reef saltwater tank, I went into it like a
      mad man, had to read 3 books cover to cover, before I even knew what I had
      bought!(those salesmen loved me!) Im just one of those people I guess. Like
      now my seed inventory has stock of 10 strains, from5-6 breeders. Thats me
      what can I say, other than thanks cause with out you guys, all I would have is Mel
      Frank and Ed R. And some of there stuff is outdated, and hard to understand.
      The web has a major part of my sucess formuler.
      Peace :~))

Time 14:16, 18 Dec 1998
From peter

      trelaway, yes those are axiomatic, my question is dealing more with
      understanding how the squirrel cage blower (key word=BLOWER) is used as an
      INTAKE fan. I've often wished i could use my Dayton to push air in the opposite
      direction. i still dont understand how the light hoods that come with the adapter
      for dryer tubing to take the heat AWAY from the bulb are supposed to work, If
      you use a BLOWER. Ive always had to resort to using whats known as 'Robin
      Hood" fans. Basically just a little fan that is able to attach tubing to both ends so
      that you can transfer air from room to room or inside/outside. Main problem with
      these is that they arent pushing enough CFM's to be REALLY effective. I've
      always used the BLOWERS to exhaust air through the ceiling. Any input will be
      appreciated though. Do they sell adapters or hoods for the blowers?

Time 07:35, 18 Dec 1998

      well..even if he got predator mites I dont think they will have time to make a
      difference before the flowers finish...
      flowering 18 days today. lady bugs are abbundant for this year ..here you can
      go look in any corner of just about any structure (shed, dog house, your house)
      and get 10 or so...if you look all around with something to put them in you can
      find lots fast. That would be the best route. If they arent everywhere there like
      they are here. I would look at the damage they are doing and decide if I wanted
      to spray with a SAFE solution or let it go..drop the temperature down in the room
      if you want to slow them down a bit and speed up the flowering...

Time 00:10, 18 Dec 1998
From trelaway


      How bout predator mites? There's a link at the BCGA site to mail order them.

Time -1:22, 18 Dec 1998
From damien...

      ok guys a question....i am budding blueberry, strawberry gold, and a #2
      which is very indican large leaves... sparse nodes though... but anyway i am in
      trouble.. i have mites (plants sre budding dec 1st)and i had an avid
      soultion all ready... i diluted the soulion to 1/4 strength even less and used a bit
      of soap too..... should this help??? i sprayed a few of the plants under the
      leaves... and i am slowly praying..

Time 19:35, 17 Dec 1998
From trelaway

      All intake means is that it pushes air into the grow. Where you mount the fan is
      optional. An intake fan is of secondary importance to the exhaust fan.

Time 16:04, 17 Dec 1998
From peter

      vic, how does the blower act as an intake? do you have it mounted outside the
      grow? isn't it supposed to be the other way around? i'm interested becuse i want
      to hook up an intake also

Time -2:45, 17 Dec 1998
From trelaway

      Thanx Vic

      Budm, I'm glad to hear the link is cool. I've never ordered thru them because I
      can buy ona locally but it wuz the only link I could find and I've been giving it out
      for months. I've been using the two hundred gram blocks, slicing a chunk off and
            putting it on a plate near some air movement. I've been getting five weeks
      out of one block. Its been working so well I have to visually check the kitty litter.

Time -3:33, 17 Dec 1998
From Vic High

      peter - intake is a 960 cfm dayton squirrel cage blower.

      trelaway - WCB will have all the info you need. That is where I went. Hospital and
      deli workers are just a few of the members of the work force that experience long
      term exposure to ozone.

      justice - yep I recieved an email recently. I wanted to reply with a date but my
      schedule keeps changing on me. Pre christmas rush and all. Hope to catch you
      before you head back.

Time 19:00, 16 Dec 1998
From justice

      hey all what's growin on?
      i've been thinking again about a small venture forth into the world of organic
      hydro... so far all my exp. has been soil. i'm thinkin nft, anybody do this? what do
      i need to set it up? i have a 250w mh and i'm doing this inside a refridgerator!!
      it's got a nice seal, white inside, and pretty incognito wouldn't you say?
      hey so yeah, homemade ozone generators!
      vic- have you received my email the last few were returned i don't know if the last
      one has gotten through?
      thanks to anybody who can help me out with the NFT thing,
      happy holidays

Time 18:18, 16 Dec 1998
From Budm

      Hey Trelaway, Thanks I just placed a smallorder with that Co. for the odor
      remover, and some other odds and ends, real nice folk there, and they work with
      Money orders, Thank You!!

Time 16:36, 16 Dec 1998
From trelaway

      Anyone know of literature/websites with info on long term exposure to low levels
      of ozone? I couldn't find any when I went looking, only discussion on safe levels
      but no mention of safe levels in relation to years of exposure.

Time 11:09, 16 Dec 1998
From peter

      vic, what exactly does your "intake" consist of?

Time -3:19, 16 Dec 1998
From Vic High

      Budm - It amazes me how many people complain about how stinky romberry is.
      Be glad your not growing romulan, now that is stinky weed, haha. Anyways, I
      place my ozone generator in my growroom near the intake. I used to have it
      placed near the exhaust, but smell kept leaking out, so now it is near the intake
      so that all air in room contains ozone. No harm if ozone concentrations are kept
      to a safe level. If you get a strong smell of "sea breeze" then it is too high. If you
      want to keep your home smell free, then I guess placing it near the front door
      would be a good idea. If your handy, give some serious thought to building your
      own. It's very simple technology and cheap to build.

      Mota - YES thank you very much. My coworker was with me when I picked them
      up and he too was very interested. Fig widow, Mmmmmm.

      Lady J - Dad is just another nameless clone in my garden that I got from my dad.
      After I got the feedback from those nugs, I tracked down that clone and it's
      source said it came from UBC. I now call that clone UBC, haha. Did you get one?
      Hope so. There are many good ones in that assortment that went your way.
      Enjoy, haha.

      Eric- it's going to take far more than 20 plants to reserect that strain. As it took
      many generations and years to diminish the strain, it will take much time and
      energy to bring it back. But hey, good luck.


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