Posted by Frenchie on December 27, 1998 at 10:22:21
In Reply to Frenchie, tell me about salt ferts. posted by Lubie.
 
The yield often depend of the Man who water the plant than the fert that is used ! IT would be hard for me to talk about the yieldcomparaison since i never did a whole crop with normal fert so nothing to compare with. The only sure thing i can say is it will grow faster, bigger resin glands, good taste, nicer looking buds (lighter color) and full control over all the nutes composants.

   CA(NO3)2 calcium nitrate veg= 1.5 gram/liter flower: 2.0 gr/l
   KNO3 Potassium nitrate veg= .7 gram/liter flower: 0
   KH2PO4 Monopotassium phosphate .5 gram/l Flower: 0.5 gram/liter
   MgSO4 Magnesium sulfate veg= .8 gr/liter flower: 0.8
   Trace element 0.1 gr/l flower: 0.1

Always mix the Nutes in the order shown above in a full tub of water. Mix the calcium Nitrate well before adding the others. If you see a overfeeding look on the top leaves, lower the calcium Nitrate Rinse the medium once or twice a week.

This recipe differ from the previous one i gave , wich was more for tomatoes than weed. In the flowering period , in the last month, start lowering the calcium nitrate so that on the last 2 weeks you would be at 0.5 gr/liter.

Posted by Orchid man on December 15, 1998 at 14:43:51
In Reply to Re: fert and PH posted by DelcampO.

Geeezz i like answers like this. This is the kind of discussions i am looking for. I wish i was as diplomat and fine writer like you. But unfortunatly i am not :)I am a rough, short fused ,undiplomatic and grouchy old fart. Maybe reading messages like yours and ~shabang~ will teach me how to act properly here. I am working on it :)

You got it right bro. If i would be newbie, i would not start with salt fert. It is simply too complicated. But when i did start growing many years ago, GH wasn't on the market yet, so i have had to learn to work with salt fert. And since then i can compare the difference between both type of fert. from seeing other crop of my friends who are using GH. And they keep asking me how to get the harsh taste out of their weed. But they wouldn't switch for salts, so i sure don't expect to convert everyone here :)

I never did work with organic fert, since i wouldn't have a clue about what is going on in the substract when i would be adding some chem fert like GH. Impossible to know because of the large amount of mineral in organic fert, combine with Chemical fert, end up being a brew too hard to control. I don't like to not knowing what is going with my fertilization.

The only thing i can say is as long as urea nitrate is used, it will be very hard to get a smooth taste with the finished product. urea Nitrate seem to stick forever in the plant and is so hard to wash out. My friend have tried to rinse with water only for 2 weeks prior harvesting and they still have this harsh taste, and i don't. I don't cure neither. It is on the market 5 days after harvesting with no harsh taste and very sweet.

Those who are using organic fert should not add micronutrient before half way thru the growing process. It is less harmfull to lack a bit of micronutrient than to have too much of them. Many peoples are overfeeding, which create super problems. Don't forget that the guys selling the product wants you to use as much as possible, they want to make money. I suggest to those who want to do a test, to have a few plants with half the fert you are using for the other plants and see for yourself.

Can you beleive i have been fertilizing my KONG weed only twice a week so far? and do they ever grow fast these guys. You can see when your plant is ready for another shot of fert because of the top leaves getting paler green.

The main thing is better less fert than too much. when nutrient start to lock up it is very hard to know what to use to undo this since we can't know exactly what is locked up with what. If you don't overfertilize you won't get fert lock up. Micronutrients are the most touchy part about fertilizing. It has to do with the kind of water you are using.

Other thing that growers should know is the amount of oxygen the roots system get. OK ,P2O5 has 5 atoms of oxygen for 2 phosphorus,but as soon as you balance your ph the O5 is reacting and oxydize turning iron to rust and zn to who knows what, instead of giving the oxygen to the roots.

This is why it is an incredible mess to describe.

If anyone wants to learn more about all of this go to this url . EVERYTHING is there. Full course on nutrient and all.:http://res.agr.ca/harrow/bk/toma99.htm

Doesn't matter if they talk about tomatoes, super site to learn about ferts. read the section about Soil reaction (ph) they know what they are talking about. Will save me a lot of typing :) i hope this help Bye for now and thanx for the input. I needed that :)
 
 

                            Anyone using Salt fert?
                            Posted by Frenchie on December 25, 1998 at 12:54:39

I would give some tricks about salt fert only if there are someone using this kind of fertilizer right now,or intend too. It would be useless for me to post on salt fert if nobody plan to use it. If there is someone who is starting with salt fert, let me say this: don't be surprise to see larger leaves and paler as well. Don't overuse Nitrate to try to get the same dark green as GH would do, the leaves are very happy with this paller green. The plant will grow much faster than with other type of fert so you will have to watch closely cause it will go fast and you will have to keep track of the calcium Nitrate ,because it is the only Composant of all the familly to watch for. Calcium Nitrate does wonder but can kill the plant too if missused. The other composants will stay the same ratio during all the plant life, only the amount will vary.

You don't have to use K2SO4 ,instead raise the KH2PO4 and KN03, slightly. Overfeeding is easily recognised with salt Fert because of the rapidity of this type of ferts to work. If you start seeing Nitrate overfert, Rinse the medium and let the plant drink the water. you won't burn them unless you fertilize when the medium is too dry. Over feeding with P or K is very rare with salt fert. The only one to watch for will be the Micro nute, don't overuse it, and the Calcium Nitrate. If i get some peoples interested    on this subject, i will post later on the WONDER of Calcium Nitrate and all the Good things this stuff can do to your plant. Friendly yours Frenchie ... O.M. is gonne
 
 

Posted by Orchid man on January 02, 1999 at 15:25:23

I hand water ,in Promix#4, i use a garbage container about 80 liter. One is filled with water and Monophosphate potassium KH2PO4 (one small plastic fert cup) Micro nutes and one tea spoon of MgSO4 (half a fert cup) depending if the water in your locality is hard or soft. hard water contain enough Magnesium , Calcium and sulfates to do the job. I use this Mix for Washing twice a week. If the promix is too dry, use plain water ,wait 2 hours then fertilize. The other container is filled with the full recipe. Smaller the plant ,more water i use (to let the medium get dry, good for the roots). The solution has to be as fresh as possible, not cold.When you fill up the reservoirs, make sure to make as much bubbling with the hose to oxygenate the water. At the rate the plants will drink,you should never have some old solution. When flowering, I use half and half  (both reservoir) so i can play with the Nitrates.

Fresh Promix should keep his PH in good shape all the way. Overwatering degrade the peatmoss . With salt ferts to tell you the thruth, the last time i did check the PH was 15 years ago and was neutral so i never checked it again since. The only way i can see if something goes wrong is by looking at the leaves and the way they grow. The growth will be very consistant, so if something goes wrong,you can see it. The only fert to watch is like i said, calcium Nitrate, this stuff on an very thirsty (dry) will kill it in 4 hours. If you see the tip of the leaves turning brown, flush with water and let it dry and pray.

I'll stop here for now. waiting for questions.
 
 

Posted by pegs on January 03, 1999 at 15:53:08
In Reply to Re: Testing ferts Precisions posted by Orchid man.

Calling it monophosphate potassium may get some strange looks across the counter, better to call it monopotassium phosphate. True there is only one phosphorus atom per molecule and thus "mono = one" says monophosphate is fine, the ambiguity in the compound is the number of potassium atoms present as the phosphate can attract one, two or three potassiums, thus it is better to specify "monopotassium phosphate" and there'll be no ambiguity as to the number of potassium atoms per phoshate compound.
 
 

Posted by O.M. on January 03, 1999 at 12:35:10
In Reply to Re: Testing ferts Precisions posted by Old Bud.

Using a heater would do, just make sure you make some Bubling each day to keep the oxygen level nice. If you go with a Pump system, then the water get oxyganeted with the flow and spraying. One can for example: make a new solution, go with it for one day, if half the solution is left in the reservoir, add water for the next day. Then discard what's left, to get a fresh solution on the third day. The best is to be able to use the solution as quickly as possible, but i sometime use the same solution for up to 4 days if i don't have enough plants and too much solution.
 
 

 
Posted by Frenchie on May 05, 1999 at 18:58:49
In Reply to Re: salt ferts posted by irish.

I am confusing more than helping with the 7-11-27 thing. Let me say first of all that ;there is some 7-11-27 that is made from salt ferts and some that are non salt ferts. Non salt ferts contain urea nitrate and phosphoric acid 2 very acid components. Salt ferts are composed of neutral salts (non acid) like calcium nitrate , potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate . lately a friend of mine did use the 7-11-27 from plantprod co. This fert is sold in large bags of around 50 pounds for 60$ can. I was deceived to see that plantprod did change their recipe for a non salt one. (phosphoric acid ect.) but after experimenting with the new formula , my friend was please to see the results who were the same as the salt fert recipe except for darker leaves. He was using Calcium Nitrate as Nitrate supplement during VEG stage, to bring the ratio to something around 20-11-27. This type of fert is so easy to use, this is why i am talking about it as an easy one to use and an alternative to GH. Salt ferts come in large or small bags, sold in Hydroponic stores. More complicated to use because there is no specific recipe to use. One have to make his own recipe in regard to the type of water used and the strain of the plant. As i said salt ferts are neutral PH ,so it won't change the "medium" PH (promix ect). Because salt ferts are
sold separated, it is easy to completly cut the nitrate at the end of the flowering stage. And now , i don't remember what was the question ...anyway...i'll stop here for now... Ho another thing...don't compare salt fert ratio with a non salt fert ratio. The composants of these ferts are not the same, so the numbers don't exactly mean the same thing.
 
 

Posted by O.M. on January 03, 1999 at 13:35:23
In Reply to Re: 9 liter a day posted by O.M..

These kong plants drink like crazy ,up to 5 liter each a day. They are 4 feet high without the pot, very branchy.
 

Posted by O.M. on January 03, 1999 at 19:01:40
In Reply to Re: 1 kong= 5 liters a day posted by O.M..

After stretching wich was minimal the Kong went down to a more normal level as water intake.... When one plant is processing at least one liter of fluid a day, you can say ...it is in shape and growing. 2 liter a day, you're in business. :)
 
 
 
 

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